Popular media on UKEscorting.com (free site!)

UKPunting is a free, independent and not-for-profit paid sex buyer site.


Author Topic: This thing about WGs not paying tax  (Read 8311 times)

I can totally understand the temptation for a WG to not pay any tax - those of us getting most self righteous about it would probably be at least highly tempted to do the same in their position.

 What I'm wondering is though, if a WG really is pulling in around £2,000 a week, what in God's name happens to that cash, I mean what options would anyone, in this industry or any, ever have to successfully shield such a huge amount of cash from the authorities? They can't just work for 3 years and then suddenly drop £100,000 deposit on a house cash that's come from nowhere (story in the papers recently about someone getting caught doing this), nor can they funnel thousands a month from nowhere in to a bank as repeated cash deposits without arousing suspicion.

 I doubt many of them are sophisticated or well connected enough to have a quality money laundering scheme going on a la Breaking Bad, plus I assume they wouldn't be that jazzed about having thousands floating around at any given time as it'd be soul destroying to hump men they didn't want to hump for a month then get robbed and lose it all, so what goes on here? Could it possibly be the case that (shock horror) they don't earn as much as is thought, or they do actually pay their taxes?

 I'm genuinely mystified as to what happens if a WG works for 3 years, puts together lets say £50,000 in cash undeclared, and then what? It maketh no sense.

Offline k

If they are not declaring it then they have to spend it. 

Even if they stick it under their mattress for ten years they will come a cropper because all of the banknotes will have been redesigned.  Ok the notes they have can be swapped at the bank for current designs, but HMRC will be informed if a "trigger-point" is activated e.g., the total cash being submitted.

Offline k

If you look at other "tax evaders" - say the jobbing builder.  I'm sure you've seen them at Christmas, in Hamleys, buying lots of presents using a big roll of £50 notes.

I don't see how they can spend it, considering a purchase of (I believe) over £10,000+ cash automatically triggers all kinds of alerts. So they can't just go out and treat themselves to a new Porsche or anything like that. And if they're going through £25,000+ of discretionary spending per year buying Louboutins, the best restaurants, holidays etc., it must be a hell of a come down when they finally become that nurse/midwife/marketing consultant that they were always planning on being and suddenly only have £25,000 a year total.

Offline k

That's their choice (but see below). 

The savvy ones are those that do pay tax.

However, the BIG problem with the UK tax system is that once you start to go down the route of not paying tax, you are committed to it.  Money Laundering regs mean that a WG cannot admit to an accountant that they've been evading tax because the accountant is duty-bound to report this to HMRC without tipping-off the girl.

I feel there should be some kind of amnesty mechanism to say that "Ok I want to become legit, can you help me?"

Oldstager

Outside London, and one or two other major cities in England I doubt whether there are all that many W.G.s pulling in £2,00 every week, added to which, of course, is that fact that unless the wheels have come off her menstrual cycle the average w.g. only works just over 3 weeks out of every four.

Bear in mind that W.G.s who do Incalls have the expense of maintaining a separate house or flat for business, with the attendant costs of rent, council tax, heating, lighting, etc.  The more fastidious ones also spend a lot on clothes, toiletries etc just for business use.

W.G.s (once they start making a few quid) also tend to develop very expensive tastes in holidays (frequent), cars, and any other expenditure that doesn`t leave a paper trail for the Inland Revenue. I know one W.G. who manages to get through at least £40,000 - £50,000 a year with absolutely nothing but a full wardrobe, a houseful of expensive tat, and a DVD of holiday snaps to show for it, but she has a lot of holidays in the sun and gets through several cars every year.

Offline k

I have occasionally had conversations with WG's about tax.  Most do in fact seem quite concerned about it.  Those that feel they cannot approach anyone need to make contemporaneous notes about their income and expenditure, so that if they do get busted they can at least be in a slightly better negotiating position.  Otherwise the Revenue are going to assess them according to their own yardstick, which is unlikely to be in the girl's favour.

Offline kingkong

I wonder if they put condoms down as an expense :sarcastic:

I take the point but I'd suggest that things like expensive holidays and cars DO leave a paper trail - how are they getting this ready cash in to a bank account to purchase the car or whatever else? And if they are burning through tens of thousands a year on fun but non-essential items, it would suggest that they'd struggle to actually kick that lifestyle? None of this seems to fit in with one of the WG stereotypes, the one who is doing it to stash away enough cash to set herself up for life and live like a queen on a mix of her real chosen career and the fat profits from the investments/savings made whilst being a WG. Maybe that stereotype is itself bollocks of the highest order.

Offline smiths

I can totally understand the temptation for a WG to not pay any tax - those of us getting most self righteous about it would probably be at least highly tempted to do the same in their position.

 What I'm wondering is though, if a WG really is pulling in around £2,000 a week, what in God's name happens to that cash, I mean what options would anyone, in this industry or any, ever have to successfully shield such a huge amount of cash from the authorities? They can't just work for 3 years and then suddenly drop £100,000 deposit on a house cash that's come from nowhere (story in the papers recently about someone getting caught doing this), nor can they funnel thousands a month from nowhere in to a bank as repeated cash deposits without arousing suspicion.

 I doubt many of them are sophisticated or well connected enough to have a quality money laundering scheme going on a la Breaking Bad, plus I assume they wouldn't be that jazzed about having thousands floating around at any given time as it'd be soul destroying to hump men they didn't want to hump for a month then get robbed and lose it all, so what goes on here? Could it possibly be the case that (shock horror) they don't earn as much as is thought, or they do actually pay their taxes?

 I'm genuinely mystified as to what happens if a WG works for 3 years, puts together lets say £50,000 in cash undeclared, and then what? It maketh no sense.

Apart from spending it as they go to live on and buy things within reason that dont cost too much thus drawing attention to themselves, if smart they funnel the money through people they know including abroad through Western Union and suchlike which is how some EE WGs or their pimps get large amounts out of the country. If they have a partner he could take loans out assuming he passes the credit checks obviously and can then buy a car without it looking dodgy but in reality they have the cash to pay the loan. They could even get a mortgage this way if he earns enough, some of the deposit being paid out of the WGs money.

When GP Parties got done they had been in operation for 8 years or so yet the owners POCA liability was under £100,000. In those 8 years he must of taken well over a million pounds. His assets were frozen after his arrest but the fact was he had spent much of the money he had personally made living for those 8 years. I imagine he still has to reach a settlement with the taxman yet though.

If smart an Indie WG who isnt breaking the law if working completely alone at all times would declare tax, it would be impossible if she is smart for the taxman to know EXACTLY what she is making although i know they make estimates. But at least she knows she is the right side of the law. However, i doubt very much that most WGs pay tax and even fewer foreign ones. I dont care as how i view it is my taxes go towards employing tax collectors so its their job to catch people who arent paying.

Offline Lilywhite

  • Service Provider
  • Posts: 328
I think there are 2 types of WG.

One who is there to make a quick buck, and the other who takes time to plan a long-term career.

I am tax registered and declare almost all my earnings. I also work all month as I wisely chose my contraception. Planning the long game is not something those who want the holidays and handbags can do... I want a house, not the latest phone so the only way to do that is to prove you have a lucrative business over many years.

Not saying holidays aren't a good reason to work by the way, everyone is different.

Offline smiths

That's their choice (but see below). 

The savvy ones are those that do pay tax.

However, the BIG problem with the UK tax system is that once you start to go down the route of not paying tax, you are committed to it.  Money Laundering regs mean that a WG cannot admit to an accountant that they've been evading tax because the accountant is duty-bound to report this to HMRC without tipping-off the girl.

I feel there should be some kind of amnesty mechanism to say that "Ok I want to become legit, can you help me?"

Do you mean an amnesty from prosecution as long as the tax owing for the time it wasnt paid is paid in full presumably with penalties added K.?

Offline k

Do you mean an amnesty from prosecution as long as the tax owing for the time it wasnt paid is paid in full presumably with penalties added K.?
Yes of course.

The fact is that a lot of part-time businesses start off as hobbies and balloon from there: the family that stick stuff on ebay, sell it, then get the taste for it, start buying stuff purely to sell it.  At some point they have to decide that it is a business, but that decision is often deferred because of the uncertainty of things.  Two years later, they might still have honest intentions, but now they are worried that an accountant will ask awkward questions. 

IMHO there needs to be a way for Accountants to move in on these businesses without them worrying about digging too deep and dragging themselves into a can of worms.

Offline wristjob


 I doubt many of them are sophisticated or well connected enough to have a quality money laundering scheme going on a la Breaking Bad

The point of the money laundering scheme in BB was that they did pay tax, so the money was legitimate, because you can't declare drug dealing income. You can declare prostitution income so you would. Actually if Skyla declared she was a $1000/hour escort that would be part of the problem solved.

I doubt foreigners pay tax - why would they? There are lots of girls who do it for a few months then stop - doubt they pay tax. If a girl has it as her primary income for more than a year she will get caught eventually but I reckon most people in that situation would pay tax. You can't realistically run a bank account or credit cards without declaring the income.


Offline Sienna_Bronze

  • Banned
  • Service Provider
  • Posts: 288
I'm registered self employed. It's easy really, and at least I'm on the right side of the law. I'm not registered as an escort though and I do put down condoms, which just show up on a receipt as chemist goods, petrol etc as expenses. I can see the temptation to not pay tax but for me risks outweigh the benefits.
Banning reason: Trolling

Offline JV547845

I wonder if they put condoms down as an expense :sarcastic:

I think on saafe it says condoms indeed are tax deductable, as are boob jobs, cars for out calls, working premises, lap tops, phones, clothes etc.  It's not the tax man's job to tell you you're running your business badly by spending all the profits and over investing.  The net is taxable not the gross, anyone self employed can do the same thing.  I thought the standard advice to not put prossie on your passport is to be a self employed massage therapist.  Who's to say what went on behind closed doors then? 

The EE girls are probably shipping it home via western union or in hand luggage under the trigger limits.  Otherwise cash can just be offset against living expenses.  If they've got kids then that can burn up a lot.  Like any cash in hand business not everything is run through the books.

The next time I see a WG who claims to declare it all and be totally legit I'm going to ask her for a VAT receipt to see what she says.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 05:49:38 PM by JV547845 »

Offline NIK

As someone has already pointed out I don't think the average prossy earns anywhere near what some believe she does. However even with only half a dozen clients each at just £100 a time that is more than double the minimum weekly wage for, even allowing prior preparation and any overrunning, no more than 12 - 15 hours a week as opposed to the 40 hours you'd need to work to earn £240 GROSS on the minimum wage.

And I have never ever believed for one minute, and prossies can bleat til they are blue in the face, that they pay tax on these cash in hand earnings.

Rather than £2000+ most are maybe taking between £500 and £1000, but it's still a fucking good wage, especially considering it isn't particularly long hours and you get to keep all of it.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 05:49:53 PM by NIK »

Offline smiths

Yes of course.

The fact is that a lot of part-time businesses start off as hobbies and balloon from there: the family that stick stuff on ebay, sell it, then get the taste for it, start buying stuff purely to sell it.  At some point they have to decide that it is a business, but that decision is often deferred because of the uncertainty of things.  Two years later, they might still have honest intentions, but now they are worried that an accountant will ask awkward questions. 

IMHO there needs to be a way for Accountants to move in on these businesses without them worrying about digging too deep and dragging themselves into a can of worms.

As long as whats owed is paid i agree. An amnesty could result in at least some coming forward which results in more tax being paid and less leg work for the taxman.

Offline wristjob

Yes of course.

The fact is that a lot of part-time businesses start off as hobbies and balloon from there: the family that stick stuff on ebay, sell it, then get the taste for it, start buying stuff purely to sell it.  At some point they have to decide that it is a business, but that decision is often deferred because of the uncertainty of things.  Two years later, they might still have honest intentions, but now they are worried that an accountant will ask awkward questions. 

IMHO there needs to be a way for Accountants to move in on these businesses without them worrying about digging too deep and dragging themselves into a can of worms.

I'm not sure that's a massive problem. You have 6 months from a business starting to declare it officially, but then you've got a 9 month deferral on your tax returns anyway. Just an opinion, but I doubt you would get prosecuted if you started declaring about 18 months after you started on account of being a bit scatter brained, too busy or offered to suck the tax man's cock. Too much of a drain on resources for someone who goes to them voluntarily and was willing to pay back taxes.

Offline k

I'm not sure that's a massive problem. You have 6 months from a business starting to declare it officially, but then you've got a 9 month deferral on your tax returns anyway. Just an opinion, but I doubt you would get prosecuted if you started declaring about 18 months after you started on account of being a bit scatter brained, too busy or offered to suck the tax man's cock. Too much of a drain on resources for someone who goes to them voluntarily and was willing to pay back taxes.
Another problem with the UK tax system is that it is too complex.  If you're running a business you have to have an accountant, and that is what the average man in the street starts to get cold feet.  Buying a house is likely the only contact such a person will have dealing with "professionals", and that's just a one-off - a necessary evil.  An accountant is different in that it is a long-term relationship you're binding yourself into. 

Oldstager

The problem that eventually arises is that anyone who never pays any NHI contributions or Income Tax, but doesn`t draw any form of Benefits reaches Pension age and finds that they aren`t in the system and there isn`t any Pension entitlement.  Quite a few are aware of this and start out with the intention of being honest as soon as they`ve put a grub stake together.  Unfortunately, once they have had the opportunity to enjoy spending real money greed takes over and they find that they simply can`t bear (or afford) to pay the Tax man his 20% plus NHI contributions. So they put it off for a bit longer, make even more money, and find the idea of paying Tax etc even harder to bear.  So they keep putting it off and it becomes ever more difficult for them to face up to it.

Much as I enjoy meeting my w.gs, I`m afraid I wouldn`t have an awful lot of sympathy with any that got caught.

Offline kingkong

As someone has already pointed out I don't think the average prossy earns anywhere near what some believe she does. However even with only half a dozen clients each at just £100 a time that is more than double the minimum weekly wage for, even allowing prior preparation and any overrunning, no more than 12 - 15 hours a week as opposed to the 40 hours you'd need to work to earn £240 GROSS on the minimum wage.

And I have never ever believed for one minute, and prossies can bleat til they are blue in the face, that they pay tax on these cash in hand earnings.

Rather than £2000+ most are maybe taking between £500 and £1000, but it's still a fucking good wage, especially considering it isn't particularly long hours and you get to keep all of it.
Agree with you on that one. The smarter WG will invest a big amount of their income into other ventures so they are not having to open their legs when they are 50.

Oldstager

Agree with you on that one. The smarter WG will invest a big amount of their income into other ventures so they are not having to open their legs when they are 50.

And as soon as she starts investing anything worthwhile she risks bringing herself to the notice of HMRC

Offline carra100

Its actually not that difficult as they will be registered with the HMRC as self employed. I myself and from and live on the Isle of Man, i work in tax consultancy and planning. As they will be registered as self employed they can claim to the HMRc a figure of just under 11,000 pounds for a fiscal year, meaning that they claim national minimum wage tax bracket and are charged by the HMRC as such. The rest of their money can then be applied to a trust account and paid back to them in the form of a loan award that never needs to be paid back, the HMRC have declared all forms of loan as tax exempt due to the fact that interest is applied to any form of "loan" and you cannot pay both interest AND tax on any sum on money. Set ups like this are only available to self employed people as if your employer pays you in the form of a loan thats automatic tax evasion.

Thats a very crude description to be honest it would take days to type out all the ins and outs  but any accountant worth his salt (and who helps prossies) would be able to advise on and set up a system like this.

Its all about using the law against the government lol

Offline NIK

Another problem with the UK tax system is that it is too complex.  If you're running a business you have to have an accountant, and that is what the average man in the street starts to get cold feet.  Buying a house is likely the only contact such a person will have dealing with "professionals", and that's just a one-off - a necessary evil.  An accountant is different in that it is a long-term relationship you're binding yourself into.

And yet according to some on here, setting up, running and making a great success of your own business is a piece of piss and anyone can do it.

Would that it were.  :rolleyes:


Latest media on UKEscorting.com (free site!)