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Author Topic: Are WG's feeling the pinch?  (Read 24464 times)

Offline Lewwy

You miss my point that going to an event is a luxury, as discretionary spend is eroded it is the wealthier who can continue  to indulge (more fully and broadly), barring the nutters who prioritise that over necessities for themselves or their family, it doesn't take a lot of wealthy people to buy out an event.  Six-figure salaries place people in the top 5-10% of the country so by extending down to the 20% I'm including an awful lot of "middle class" earning maybe as little as 50-60k.  Again the point is that all these indicators you hang your hat on are "easily" saturated by the smaller proportion of society who can afford them despite losing 4-5k net from their disposable income.
Now perhaps if you start talking about media subscriptions (streaming services, cable broadcasters, broadband providers), pub otc and off-licence sales, takeaway and food delivery sales then perhaps you start to see what's happening across society.

Edinburgh Fringe is an event, using it to represent the whole industry is specious argument.
Lack of staff willing to do the overtime and the airlines/airports unwilling to pay for the base salaries and overtime to run more flights is also part of the staffing problem.  Friction in hiring due to security clearances and ground/cabinstaff training of newbies makes this worse but then only because the airlines won't pay the salaries needed to tempt the already skilled staff back.

Homeless market mature? How so?  As interest rates rise in prolonged fashion 12-36+ months, rate terms expire and change more and more will default, it may be a trickle now but it will build to a head, all new demand for homeless services supposedly struggling to house the present homeless.  Perhaps the banks will do alot of forgiving and holidaying of payments if they're compassionate or pressure by the Government but otherwise?...

You said "hotels at 100%" but now you start divvying the industry up into some lot who can/will take homeless and "recreational" I make no distinction, the industry has so many rooms/beds and there are multiple sources of demand for them, whether they receive subsidy for making their facilities available and housing the needy is down to local and national government.  But we are clearly not "Hotel UK" is full fuck off to the manger Joseph.

During the last recession (2008'ish) I said repeatedly that house repossessions would be no where near the massive scaremongering that was going on in the media and I was right. The media were basing their headlines and scaremongering on the previous recession to that - the late 80's/early 90's or thereabouts.

The essential difference was that by the time the last recession came about the landscape of mortgage lending had changed massively. Traditionally, mortgages were taken on by banks and building societies. Banks are big affairs with lots of staff, buildings and money. By the time the last crash rolled around you had firms like Mortgage Express, Kensington and a myriad of either sub-prime or "only mortgage lender" firms spring up simply to doll money out - often to people who were in no way fit to be lent it.

If you fall into debt with your mortgagee they have the option of taking the house off you. The problem was, I think, that when a lender repossess a property it has a rather substantial legal duty towards the borrower in the form of things like keeping the property in good condition and organising a sale at a "proper" price. It can't just off-load it to the first bloke who comes along with enough dosh to pay off the debt. Taking possession of a property and dealing with it in a lawful way, one which fulfils the obligation to the mortgagor, is not a cheap or simple process. Your sub-prime lender who is operating from a few offices hundreds of miles away from where you are simply did not have the resources to do all this. Of course, if you're Barclays, Lloyds or HBOS you have thousands of people working for you, a few of whom you can reallocate into the basement offices in the form of a team to handle repos. This was never an option for most of the new lenders and I think that a great deal of people got off far more lightly than were their debt with a massive corporation.

There was a famous American property auction firm that set up a UK office to turn over repos at large, highly publicised auctions they were going to hold throughout the country. Their model was, if I recall correctly, that they would auction the house and stick a huge commission on the hammer price which was their slice. The law, as I mentioned, requires a "proper" price to be achieved. The proper "price" for the house is, of course, the total price the buyer hands over. The law then sets out how the proceeds of sale are to be distributed such as first paying off any head mortgagees (before the costs of the sale ie; their commission, which is wildly excessive in any event) and there is a set way in which it was to be done. The schysters were essentially ignoring their commission (which was something like 25%) and starting the distribution at the hammer price which you can't do. It was more involved than that but that was the general drift of things.

Anyway, that's massively off topic, to be fair!
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Online LLPunting

During the last recession (2008'ish) I said repeatedly that house repossessions would be no where near the massive scaremongering that was going on in the media and I was right. The media were basing their headlines and scaremongering on the previous recession to that - the late 80's/early 90's or thereabouts.

The essential difference was that by the time the last recession came about the landscape of mortgage lending had changed massively. Traditionally, mortgages were taken on by banks and building societies. Banks are big affairs with lots of staff, buildings and money. By the time the last crash rolled around you had firms like Mortgage Express, Kensington and a myriad of either sub-prime or "only mortgage lender" firms spring up simply to doll money out - often to people who were in no way fit to be lent it.

If you fall into debt with your mortgagee they have the option of taking the house off you. The problem was, I think, that when a lender repossess a property it has a rather substantial legal duty towards the borrower in the form of things like keeping the property in good condition and organising a sale at a "proper" price. It can't just off-load it to the first bloke who comes along with enough dosh to pay off the debt. Taking possession of a property and dealing with it in a lawful way, one which fulfils the obligation to the mortgagor, is not a cheap or simple process. Your sub-prime lender who is operating from a few offices hundreds of miles away from where you are simply did not have the resources to do all this. Of course, if you're Barclays, Lloyds or HBOS you have thousands of people working for you, a few of whom you can reallocate into the basement offices in the form of a team to handle repos. This was never an option for most of the new lenders and I think that a great deal of people got off far more lightly than were their debt with a massive corporation.

There was a famous American property auction firm that set up a UK office to turn over repos at large, highly publicised auctions they were going to hold throughout the country. Their model was, if I recall correctly, that they would auction the house and stick a huge commission on the hammer price which was their slice. The law, as I mentioned, requires a "proper" price to be achieved. The proper "price" for the house is, of course, the total price the buyer hands over. The law then sets out how the proceeds of sale are to be distributed such as first paying off any head mortgagees (before the costs of the sale ie; their commission, which is wildly excessive in any event) and there is a set way in which it was to be done. The schysters were essentially ignoring their commission (which was something like 25%) and starting the distribution at the hammer price which you can't do. It was more involved than that but that was the general drift of things.

Anyway, that's massively off topic, to be fair!

Totally agree the mortgage landscape changed dramatically between the previous big crash '89-'93 (I got stung in that one) and the smaller/shorter dip post 2008.  So much more is leveraged on what's mortgaged now by so many more people so we are in a "toomuch debt to fail" situation that's been driving the house prices despite all the other economic woes that would previously have stalled or driven prices down.  Canny multi-property landlords/prospectors might ride it out to some extent because of the way they may've financed but there will be alot of over-extended ordinary owner/occupiers worrying.  But as you say it's not in the banks' longer term interests to repossess provided the period of grace afforded to individuals isn't too long.  We'll just have to see how all the driving factors roll and whether the banks are forced to blink because their post 2008 provisioning and the restructuring and decoupling of markets proves to be inadequate.

Offline Marmalade

All very informative. Maye applies to a section of punters more than P4Ps. The only ones I've known that have a mortgage have paid it off. I sometimes suspect that after they've worked for a while a lot either get their act together and make a pile while they can or others just pooter along out of laziness and other addictions.

Online LLPunting

All very informative. Maye applies to a section of punters more than P4Ps. The only ones I've known that have a mortgage have paid it off. I sometimes suspect that after they've worked for a while a lot either get their act together and make a pile while they can or others just pooter along out of laziness and other addictions.

Putter or pootle or am I missing out on a word worth using?

Many ladies I've pillow-talked with of all nationalities seem to have bought homes and businesses back in their home countries, some built property holdings here too.  More than a few making sure that time on their backs/fronts/all fours results in security for the future.

Online willie loman



lets revisit this topic in 6 months, you predict armageddon, i say, not, by the way the fringe was in august, next month its business as usual, and the hotels are still fully booked, at premium prices, and will be for the next 12 months as well, that i can predict
[/quote]
« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 06:24:08 am by willie loman »

Offline Marmalade

Putter or pootle or am I missing out on a word worth using?

Many ladies I've pillow-talked with of all nationalities seem to have bought homes and businesses back in their home countries, some built property holdings here too.  More than a few making sure that time on their backs/fronts/all fours results in security for the future.

In case of doubt (my post was scribbled with one finger slide-typing on my phone without my glasses) but yes, I was referring to prossies, not punters. Some of the properties are more like a mansion. Yet their outward manner is pretty modest for meeting punters. A very average spare room, an old jumper — no way they want to risk ruining decent clothes. Or they meet and greet in their undies to save on laundry, renting some cheap premier inn room. The whole thread strikes me as just a wee bit daft. There’s no way I need to feel worried about a professional SP “feeling the pinch”.

Online Moby Dick

I don’t think anyone is going to worry about SPs feeling the pinch.
They can all go back to their Law firms, since they all have degrees in law  :sarcastic:
(rule #1 don’t believe anything they tell you, especially about how well off they are)

OP was thinking more along the lines of price reductions, included extras, better service, competing for punters, repeat business etc.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 08:53:33 am by Moby Dick »

Offline estats

Totally agree the mortgage landscape changed dramatically between the previous big crash '89-'93 (I got stung in that one) and the smaller/shorter dip post 2008.  So much more is leveraged on what's mortgaged now by so many more people so we are in a "toomuch debt to fail" situation that's been driving the house prices despite all the other economic woes that would previously have stalled or driven prices down.  Canny multi-property landlords/prospectors might ride it out to some extent because of the way they may've financed but there will be alot of over-extended ordinary owner/occupiers worrying.  But as you say it's not in the banks' longer term interests to repossess provided the period of grace afforded to individuals isn't too long.  We'll just have to see how all the driving factors roll and whether the banks are forced to blink because their post 2008 provisioning and the restructuring and decoupling of markets proves to be inadequate.

It's off topic, but sort-of related, but I don't understand the points being made on housing?

The 2008 correction was average -15% in the UK and -20% in the USA (in places -40%). It then took prices around 5+ years to recover. If you are saying it's not as bad as predicted, I guess you could argue it depends on who is making the prediction, but we still saw a correction and actually you can link the policy of QE1, QE2 and the crazy money printing then to our problems now. Remember it only wasn't as bad as predicted because taxpayers bailed out many banks.

It's very simple, all things being equal if you stimulate an economy from debt and print more currency as a way of a central bank monetising that debt, you create inflation. Many look back and say well why didn't we get it 2008 onwards, to me it's quite simple, because globalisation offset it, that is we sent jobs and manufacturing to China as a way of offsetting the inflation western central banks were creating at the time, and as human nature always is we thought we'd broken the link and inflation would never return, we hadn't. The China party is over for the West.

If the point is a recessions corrects the misallocation of capital, obviously, but that is a painful process, especially in the context of us having free money for a decade (i.e. very loose monetary policy). If your points are people in our economy are so over leveraged on mortgages property has to be immune from a total crash, I do sort-of get this point, politically I believe you are correct. However, that is to underestimate inflation. The more in-debt our economy and the lesser an ability of the Bank of England to tighten monetary policy, the worse our currency position and economy will be and the longer and worse inflation gets, inflation and the markets will not give a damn, sterling will just get smashed on the markets (as it is).

People seem to get confused on inflation. Think of it as a tax by another name. Look at it's role in driving Nazi Germany. Inflation is to be feared, as once you realise you have it, it's damage is almost surely embedded. The less tools a central bank has, or the more in-debted an economy, that is not a reason to celebrate over the long term.

The loss of price stability in an economy is FAR more of a danger than a housing market crash.

The more we try and prevent the market from correcting itself and all the misallocation of capital, we just kick the problems further down the road and make them worse. Look at the Japanese economy and it's lack of growth over 20 years.

I keep reading the housing market is immune from a crash , etc, etc. It's nonesense in my view. House prices will fall, if people think through the economics, it's inevitable they will over the next 18 months and by more than 10%. Housing is a sticky economic indicator, it lags the market, but it will and it could be a very large correction in the UK, USA, Australia, Canada. Again, time will show who is right.

Offline limarasa9

Not generalising but an SP whom I reviewed couple of months back has reduced her rates from £150ph to £120ph recently. I guess it’s all down to individual circumstances and what steps an SP is taking to maintain her income.

Offline Bornslippy

Did you rate her a positive punt?


Online daviemac

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Offline chadpitt


Hospitality and travel have been struggling to fill vacancies since opening up fully again, and still are, so unless it shuts down completely there will not be major job losses.

I reckon a good benchmark of impact will be food delivery, if the dinky cars and scooters disappear from the streets, then we are in trouble  :D

Have you not heard about all the pubs closing. With energy bills increasing and consumers spending less, hospitality is squeezed from both sides.

Offline chadpitt

I’m pleased Willie’s stated this as I get bored explaining it again and again. You see these ‘market economics’ from time to time on the forum and they’re always baloney, prices never come down. I’m not saying it’s impossible. If we hit with a tsunami or something, a real one, not metaphorically, and immigrant row started charging a tenner for a quickie in the mud. Some sort of science fiction scene.

I’ve seen it in practice many times here and abroad. To understand market economics and prossies you need to study prossies.

Prossie: Greggs is more expensive: I’ll need to charge more
Prossie: I’m getting less customers: I’ll need to charge more
Prossie: I’m getting too many customers: I should charge more
Prossie: There’s more prossies: I need to charge more cos I’m good
Prossie: There’s less prossies: therefore I can charge more
Prossie: Greggs is getting less expensive: I think I’ll buy a new dress

Anything I’ve missed??

Prossie: I've put on weight. I should charge more
Prossie: I'm a "milf". Need to charge more
Prossie: Lying on my back is hard. Start charging extras for everything
Prossie: I haven't increased my rates in 3 months. I must charge more.
Prossie: Too many hagglers. I'll set the price higher and not negotiate
Prossie: I want to work 12pm-6pm and not when clients are free. I should also charge more.
Prossie: I'll use adult work because it attracts suckers. So I'll charge more on there.
Prossie: I got bad reviews. Need to make up by charging more


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Offline Marmalade

You need to explain that comment.

Probably just popping off for some self-inflicted mental torture, flogging, lashings, while reading the fucking rules. duh! beginner!

Online daviemac

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Probably just popping off for some self-inflicted mental torture, flogging, lashings, while reading the fucking rules. duh! beginner!
I honestly don't know why people do this, instead of just answering a straight forward question in a reasonable manner they come back with attitude and push towards a ban.   :unknown:

Offline Marmalade

I honestly don't know why people do this, instead of just answering a straight forward question in a reasonable manner they come back with attitude and push towards a ban.   :unknown:

He says he’s on meds.

Or maybe he just has a wee inner whack-a-mole tendency.


Online daviemac

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He says he’s on meds.

Or maybe he just has a wee inner whack-a-mole tendency.
Been looking through his previous posts and he comes across as having a bit of an attitude, telling one member to put TS in the title of a review just to suit him regardless of the fact TS has it's own section and TS reviews are categorised as such.

He lucky he's only getting a week, if his attitude continues it will be permanent.

Offline oldrunter

Maybe it's because I am an old git but full service providers are too pricey for me now.
Anything over 100 /hr or 60 half I just switch off. Tend to stick to massages now.
Now in my mid 70sI have had my best days from the 90s to pre COVID.
Just to say I appreciate all the reviews and good luck to all you punters.

Offline MrMatrix

Their stupidity knows no bounds. But then they try "clever" tactics like bumping their shorter rates but keeping their hourly rates, you can the same. But then trying to rush clients out early in and 1 cum policies in an hour.

This industry is more supply driven than demand and leaving the EU has destroyed supply.
They seem to be more use of extras than pre covid. You have to verify that all services off likes list are included in the price :hi:

Offline Tomcat

Maybe it's because I am an old git but full service providers are too pricey for me now.
Anything over 100 /hr or 60 half I just switch off. Tend to stick to massages now.
Now in my mid 70sI have had my best days from the 90s to pre COVID.
Just to say I appreciate all the reviews and good luck to all you punters.

We are all feeling the pinch, I'm thinking now maybe once a month and looking for value in terms of time and services.

Offline Marmalade

Does the obvious (I thought) pun not ring a bell with anyone else?? At the prices they charge, surely they need a pinch — on their arm, their thigh fucking anywhere as long as they wake up and get real. Traditionally a “common ho”, seller of sex to anyone, is in the exceedingly lower rung of people that provide a ‘service’ and their prices were within the reach of anyone.

Now they tart themselves up ‘online’ and believe their own hype.
If your a p4p and reading this, please put your phone down, go in another room, and give yersel’ a wee pinch. Look at your life. And ask yourself how the fuck you charge those prices without feeling ashamed.

Offline datwabbit

Does the obvious (I thought) pun not ring a bell with anyone else?? At the prices they charge, surely they need a pinch — on their arm, their thigh fucking anywhere as long as they wake up and get real. Traditionally a “common ho”, seller of sex to anyone, is in the exceedingly lower rung of people that provide a ‘service’ and their prices were within the reach of anyone.

Good point. Why do we talk about punting being a luxury hobby? It might have become that now but surely a luxury is something that you have no need for so sellers of that luxury know that business will not be regular. I'd argue that sex is something that could be regularly in demand so it's not a luxury in nature. It's become a luxury due to prices.

Offline datwabbit

We are all feeling the pinch, I'm thinking now maybe once a month and looking for value in terms of time and services.
Nothing wrong with that. Better to be once a month with a pleasurable experience than more often with buyers remorse.

Offline king tarzan

During the last recession (2008'ish) I said repeatedly that house repossessions would be no where near the massive scaremongering that was going on in the media and I was right. The media were basing their headlines and scaremongering on the previous recession to that - the late 80's/early 90's or thereabouts.

The essential difference was that by the time the last recession came about the landscape of mortgage lending had changed massively. Traditionally, mortgages were taken on by banks and building societies. Banks are big affairs with lots of staff, buildings and money. By the time the last crash rolled around you had firms like Mortgage Express, Kensington and a myriad of either sub-prime or "only mortgage lender" firms spring up simply to doll money out - often to people who were in no way fit to be lent it.

If you fall into debt with your mortgagee they have the option of taking the house off you. The problem was, I think, that when a lender repossess a property it has a rather substantial legal duty towards the borrower in the form of things like keeping the property in good condition and organising a sale at a "proper" price. It can't just off-load it to the first bloke who comes along with enough dosh to pay off the debt. Taking possession of a property and dealing with it in a lawful way, one which fulfils the obligation to the mortgagor, is not a cheap or simple process. Your sub-prime lender who is operating from a few offices hundreds of miles away from where you are simply did not have the resources to do all this. Of course, if you're Barclays, Lloyds or HBOS you have thousands of people working for you, a few of whom you can reallocate into the basement offices in the form of a team to handle repos. This was never an option for most of the new lenders and I think that a great deal of people got off far more lightly than were their debt with a massive corporation.

There was a famous American property auction firm that set up a UK office to turn over repos at large, highly publicised auctions they were going to hold throughout the country. Their model was, if I recall correctly, that they would auction the house and stick a huge commission on the hammer price which was their slice. The law, as I mentioned, requires a "proper" price to be achieved. The proper "price" for the house is, of course, the total price the buyer hands over. The law then sets out how the proceeds of sale are to be distributed such as first paying off any head mortgagees (before the costs of the sale ie; their commission, which is wildly excessive in any event) and there is a set way in which it was to be done. The schysters were essentially ignoring their commission (which was something like 25%) and starting the distribution at the hammer price which you can't do. It was more involved than that but that was the general drift of things.

Anyway, that's massively off topic, to be fair!

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Offline lillythesavage

During the last recession (2008'ish) I said repeatedly that house repossessions would be no where near the massive scaremongering that was going on in the media and I was right. The media were basing their headlines and scaremongering on the previous recession to that - the late 80's/early 90's or thereabouts.

The essential difference was that by the time the last recession came about the landscape of mortgage lending had changed massively. Traditionally, mortgages were taken on by banks and building societies. Banks are big affairs with lots of staff, buildings and money. By the time the last crash rolled around you had firms like Mortgage Express, Kensington and a myriad of either sub-prime or "only mortgage lender" firms spring up simply to doll money out - often to people who were in no way fit to be lent it.

If you fall into debt with your mortgagee they have the option of taking the house off you. The problem was, I think, that when a lender repossess a property it has a rather substantial legal duty towards the borrower in the form of things like keeping the property in good condition and organising a sale at a "proper" price. It can't just off-load it to the first bloke who comes along with enough dosh to pay off the debt. Taking possession of a property and dealing with it in a lawful way, one which fulfils the obligation to the mortgagor, is not a cheap or simple process. Your sub-prime lender who is operating from a few offices hundreds of miles away from where you are simply did not have the resources to do all this. Of course, if you're Barclays, Lloyds or HBOS you have thousands of people working for you, a few of whom you can reallocate into the basement offices in the form of a team to handle repos. This was never an option for most of the new lenders and I think that a great deal of people got off far more lightly than were their debt with a massive corporation.

There was a famous American property auction firm that set up a UK office to turn over repos at large, highly publicised auctions they were going to hold throughout the country. Their model was, if I recall correctly, that they would auction the house and stick a huge commission on the hammer price which was their slice. The law, as I mentioned, requires a "proper" price to be achieved. The proper "price" for the house is, of course, the total price the buyer hands over. The law then sets out how the proceeds of sale are to be distributed such as first paying off any head mortgagees (before the costs of the sale ie; their commission, which is wildly excessive in any event) and there is a set way in which it was to be done. The schysters were essentially ignoring their commission (which was something like 25%) and starting the distribution at the hammer price which you can't do. It was more involved than that but that was the general drift of things.

Anyway, that's massively off topic, to be fair!


You forgot to mention interests rates also crashed in that recession, that saved an awful lot of people from repossession.

Not so sure you are right about the banks either, they own the property once repossessed and can do with it whatever they want, usually auction, which is the fairest way, a good property will make the right money, a poorly cared for less. I assume the balance over the debt is paid to the people who lost the property, after fees, of which the bank will add too.

Sitting on an empty property to try and get the right money does not help anyone and the property is at risk of all sorts. Squatters, thieves, vandals, crack dens, fire, flood etc, it is in no ones interest not to send it to auction ASAP.

You are right about sub prime lenders, the days before computers and credit ratings were much easier, they have their uses though and some banks/ building societies were at it too.
They have their uses, if you know how to use them, build your credit rating while not paying rent, and paying their higher rates for a two year fixed, then finding another deal. So many lied though, took on more than they could afford and just got into more debt.
I used them after returning to the UK, had no choice unless I rented.

The problem is now, people have borrowed on very low rates and they are going up, depending how far they go it could be much worse than 2008. People prior 2008 had borrowed on high rates, which crashed to nothing, the deals that were available then were crazy cheap.

Prior to the crash, I switched both my high fixed rates, to trackers at high rate, but at 0.19% above base rate, and 0.69% for the buy to let, with Woolwich/Barclays, both were cheaper than my 2 year fixed with a micky mouse lender, when rates crashed, the first annual payment cleared the annual interest and more than that figure from the repayment sum. It was a gamble that paid off.

Things could be much worse this time around, energy costs are out of control, raging inflation is pushing prices on everything, energy is going to push inflation far higher, put businesses under, push people out of work, it is not really biting fully yet, increasing interest rates could push more over the edge, we did not have these issues in 2008 to the same extent, and interests rates went the right way. They Ain,t now.

Offline king tarzan


You forgot to mention interests rates also crashed in that recession, that saved an awful lot of people from repossession.

Not so sure you are right about the banks either, they own the property once repossessed and can do with it whatever they want, usually auction, which is the fairest way, a good property will make the right money, a poorly cared for less. I assume the balance over the debt is paid to the people who lost the property, after fees, of which the bank will add too.

Sitting on an empty property to try and get the right money does not help anyone and the property is at risk of all sorts. Squatters, thieves, vandals, crack dens, fire, flood etc, it is in no ones interest not to send it to auction ASAP.

You are right about sub prime lenders, the days before computers and credit ratings were much easier, they have their uses though and some banks/ building societies were at it too.
They have their uses, if you know how to use them, build your credit rating while not paying rent, and paying their higher rates for a two year fixed, then finding another deal. So many lied though, took on more than they could afford and just got into more debt.
I used them after returning to the UK, had no choice unless I rented.

The problem is now, people have borrowed on very low rates and they are going up, depending how far they go it could be much worse than 2008. People prior 2008 had borrowed on high rates, which crashed to nothing, the deals that were available then were crazy cheap.

Prior to the crash, I switched both my high fixed rates, to trackers at high rate, but at 0.19% above base rate, and 0.69% for the buy to let, with Woolwich/Barclays, both were cheaper than my 2 year fixed with a micky mouse lender, when rates crashed, the first annual payment cleared the annual interest and more than that figure from the repayment sum. It was a gamble that paid off.

Things could be much worse this time around, energy costs are out of control, raging inflation is pushing prices on everything, energy is going to push inflation far higher, put businesses under, push people out of work, it is not really biting fully yet, increasing interest rates could push more over the edge, we did not have these issues in 2008 to the same extent, and interests rates went the right way. They Ain,t now.

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I can sleep at night and not worry..
The strength of being single..
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Offline Shagswell2001

I have to say I've noticed a few the "High Class Escorts" , the £300 + girls who always seem to be busy on long term arrangements,  who I have saved on my hotlist in the hope that someday I might have that kind of cash to splurge,  have their green lights on a lot more often than before. Maybe even a few of our more affluent punters are feeling the pinch and not splashing out on pussy as much as they used to with the knock on effect that the girls have to tout more for business.

Offline petermisc

Not so sure you are right about the banks either, they own the property once repossessed and can do with it whatever they want, usually auction, which is the fairest way, a good property will make the right money, a poorly cared for less. I assume the balance over the debt is paid to the people who lost the property, after fees, of which the bank will add too.
My understanding is that there is very rarely any balance left over.  Properties tend to go for less at auction than on the open market, and there is a substantial auctioneers fee.

Offline Lewwy


You forgot to mention interests rates also crashed in that recession, that saved an awful lot of people from repossession.

Not so sure you are right about the banks either, they own the property once repossessed and can do with it whatever they want, usually auction, which is the fairest way, a good property will make the right money, a poorly cared for less. I assume the balance over the debt is paid to the people who lost the property, after fees, of which the bank will add too.

Sitting on an empty property to try and get the right money does not help anyone and the property is at risk of all sorts. Squatters, thieves, vandals, crack dens, fire, flood etc, it is in no ones interest not to send it to auction ASAP.

You are right about sub prime lenders, the days before computers and credit ratings were much easier, they have their uses though and some banks/ building societies were at it too.
They have their uses, if you know how to use them, build your credit rating while not paying rent, and paying their higher rates for a two year fixed, then finding another deal. So many lied though, took on more than they could afford and just got into more debt.
I used them after returning to the UK, had no choice unless I rented.

The problem is now, people have borrowed on very low rates and they are going up, depending how far they go it could be much worse than 2008. People prior 2008 had borrowed on high rates, which crashed to nothing, the deals that were available then were crazy cheap.

Prior to the crash, I switched both my high fixed rates, to trackers at high rate, but at 0.19% above base rate, and 0.69% for the buy to let, with Woolwich/Barclays, both were cheaper than my 2 year fixed with a micky mouse lender, when rates crashed, the first annual payment cleared the annual interest and more than that figure from the repayment sum. It was a gamble that paid off.

Things could be much worse this time around, energy costs are out of control, raging inflation is pushing prices on everything, energy is going to push inflation far higher, put businesses under, push people out of work, it is not really biting fully yet, increasing interest rates could push more over the edge, we did not have these issues in 2008 to the same extent, and interests rates went the right way. They Ain,t now.

They don't and can't though, that was my point. The person who's defaulted still owns it, the bank just has a charge over it to secure their loan. The person in possession has to take good care of it, as the owner would, and can't just let it go to rack and ruin. If you are a bank with a glut of repossessed properties on your hands then you have to look after them all until you can achieve a "proper" price. That can get really expensive really quickly - as you point out in the next paragraph - so it's often easier to leave them in possession of the mortgaor as long as possible. After the 90's crash there were a string of court cases where the banks got shafted because they didn't look after properties or sold them at an undervalue in order to off load them.
Banned reason: Offered free booking because he wouldn't post details.
Banned by: daviemac

Offline Lewwy

My understanding is that there is very rarely any balance left over.  Properties tend to go for less at auction than on the open market, and there is a substantial auctioneers fee.

Again, not quite true. Yes, auction prices are usually bit cheaper but they are never very much lower. Auctioneers fees are not huge and are around the same as a normal sale, sometimes lower as they are doing less work, usually. The ridiculous fees, along with how they were charged, was the reason for the downfall of the big American company which I mentioned in my initial post.

There is quite often a balance left over. Take my house - it's worth somewhere around £400k and my outstanding mortgage is less than 10% of that. If my life went to shit and I couldn't pay it then they'd possess it, sell it and give me the balance. I know of several sales where have been substantial balances left to transfer to the people who've lost the house.
Banned reason: Offered free booking because he wouldn't post details.
Banned by: daviemac

Offline lillythesavage

My understanding is that there is very rarely any balance left over.  Properties tend to go for less at auction than on the open market, and there is a substantial auctioneers fee.

Auction fees are not terrible, and ready to move in properties will achieve very good prices, those needing work get sold to developers looking for a margin or adding to a rental portfolio, but will often achieve far in excess of auction guide prices.

It does take more property into buy to let though.

The First wifes parents did very well out of auction property and him doing them up, for themselves and for rent, very well indeed.

Offline Marmalade

There has been little discussion about the differences between how men and women view the product — or rather service if you like — but it is the product, the cunt, that is on offer, at least for the short time agreed and in a mutually acceptable manner.

The thread has wandered off over almost insoluble differences over whether standard market economics is the controlling factor, with more experienced punters declaring that it isn’t, even given the occasional seeming exception. We’ve all known a WG who has a ‘special offer’ or who clips her prices realising that she has oversold herself: but the exceptions have not shown a general trend. It’s even diverged into discussion of mortgages as clearly more interesting.

But to come back on topic: a big factor that contributes to the general “no cut prices” phenomena goes deeper: I suggest this is how men and women view the cunt. This is not only understandable, but especially prominent when it’s her main job. To a woman, her cunt is the highest prize, the supreme experience. Not only has she been ‘conditioned’ through 2000 years of patriarchy that commoditises: it represents to her her momentous award, the highest gift she can bestow on a male of the species, from losing her virginity to a worthy suitor or having it sold to a highest bidder; and it continues through the mating game, a power she can exert over the frustrated male. Offering this experience to a man is priceless. She is humiliated by charging so little for it rather than marrying an obedient male to provide for her. If she’s reduced to selling it by the hour and half hour, no way does she want to admit it is of even less value. But when a man shags a p4p, he is not being blessed with the previous jewel beyond all understanding: he is just getting a shag.


Offline petermisc

There has been little discussion about the differences between how men and women view the product — or rather service if you like — but it is the product, the cunt, that is on offer, at least for the short time agreed and in a mutually acceptable manner.
There are plenty of punters who do not go for full sex.  There are many who are satisfied with a hand or blow job, for example.

Offline petermisc

The First wifes parents did very well out of auction property and him doing them up, for themselves and for rent, very well indeed.
That implies that properties can be obtained cheaper at auction. 

Offline Marmalade

There are plenty of punters who do not go for full sex.  There are many who are satisfied with a hand or blow job, for example.
subsidiary

Offline king tarzan

That implies that properties can be obtained cheaper at auction.

Probably repossession faze coming up soon when interest rate goes up
Reading inflation by next year could be whopping 22%
Banned reason: Misogynist who gets free bookings from agencies for pos reviews.
Banned by: daviemac

Online Moby Dick


To a woman, her cunt is the highest prize, the supreme experience.


Really , I always found the taboo of fucking her chocolate starfish was put on a higher pedestal and costs more.
Fucking Fanny is ten a penny in comparison.
Most SP will take a cock in their clunge but not all will take it up their arse.
Having said that some will do OWO and rim your arse but won’t kiss on the lips.
Good to have standards

Offline king tarzan


Having said that some will do OWO and rim your arse but won’t kiss on the lips.
Good to have standards

Very baffling that..
It's far too personal and intimate I've been told..
Needles to say did not proceed
Banned reason: Misogynist who gets free bookings from agencies for pos reviews.
Banned by: daviemac

Offline datwabbit

.
Having said that some will do OWO and rim your arse but won’t kiss on the lips.
Good to have standards
Yeah, they'd rather be a cum dump than have an intimate kiss. Because the kiss is too personal.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2022, 01:02:05 pm by datwabbit »

Offline Lewwy

That implies that properties can be obtained cheaper at auction.

No one is saying they can't. They are rarely very cheap though. Especially if a repo because the lender selling it has a variety of duties towards the borrower - he holds the property, and the money arising from it, on trust for him and various other people such as higher mortgagees.

The real point of auctions is that they provide certainty for all parties. Typically, a property auction is a binding affair - the seller is required to pay a deposit on the day and contracts are exchanged immediately. Neither party can back out. The seller - often a lender - is certain of what funds he will get. The buyer is certain that he will get his property at the agreed price and that it can't be sold to a higher offer. If you are purchasing for business or investment purposes then that certainty can be worth a lot of money in itself as a sale which drags on for months and months eventually ending in some other twat coming along with a higher offer can easily cost you tens of thousands in lost revenue. That is the main area of financial savings that I've always seen when looking at auction properties.

The benefit to a mortgagee in possession is that the sale has been conducted publicly and that he hasn't simply just flogged it to his mate for half of what it's worth so he can more easily show that he's satisfied the legalities and has indeed achieved a "..proper price in all the circumstances.." or whatever the specific legal ruling is.

Anyway, as has been said - this is way off topic now! 
Banned reason: Offered free booking because he wouldn't post details.
Banned by: daviemac

Offline Tomcat

Well seems things are really bad read below.

Last Wednesday I got contacted by Asian establishment on WhatsApp in E13 don't who didn't ask, young girl so I played long sent me three different pictures of three different girl's over the week yesterday voice mail on whatsapp "this girl give good blow job come" don't know who the hell this lot are not been to E13 over two years

Sunday gone Mr Lee from E10 sent the below.





Sunday again message from Horny Monica E4 can't show the message personal I know her very well that's why won't show the message other personal stuff, asked if I can come round to see  her.




Today Nana from E11 where Nisa joint is , not seen Nana for over a year and a half I think.


They are all touting for business things are bad, I hope the pictures come out right under each line, if not sorry.

Hidden Image/Members Only

Hidden Image/Members Only
« Last Edit: September 06, 2022, 06:29:30 pm by Tomcat »

Offline lillythesavage

That implies that properties can be obtained cheaper at auction.

Those needing work can, but not always, there is always auction fever to be taken into account  :D, good ready to live properties can achieve more than on the open market if just two people want it.

Selling at auction also rids the time wasters, and I do not think you have to declare any neighbour problems, or local ASB problems, it is very much on the buyer to read the legal papers and do their homework.

Any property in a mortgageable condition will do well at auction because more buyers will have the money from a mortgage in principal.

You can also put into the sale legal pack, that all fees and costs are the buyers responsibility ,including your own ,if they do not read it, tough, the auctioneer will not mention it.

Far worse ways if you need to get out of a property quickly.

Offline Marmalade

Well seems things are really bad read below.
Last Wednesday I got contacted by Asian establishment on WhatsApp in E13 don't who didn't ask, young girl so I played long sent me three different pictures of three different girl's over the week yesterday voice mail on whatsapp "this girl give good blow job come" don't know who the hell this lot are not been to E13 over two years
Maybe you need to adjust your whatsapp settings?

Online LLPunting

...
But to come back on topic: a big factor that contributes to the general “no cut prices” phenomena goes deeper: I suggest this is how men and women view the cunt. This is not only understandable, but especially prominent when it’s her main job. To a woman, her cunt is the highest prize, the supreme experience. Not only has she been ‘conditioned’ through 2000 years of patriarchy that commoditises: it represents to her her momentous award, the highest gift she can bestow on a male of the species, from losing her virginity to a worthy suitor or having it sold to a highest bidder; and it continues through the mating game, a power she can exert over the frustrated male. Offering this experience to a man is priceless. She is humiliated by charging so little for it rather than marrying an obedient male to provide for her. If she’s reduced to selling it by the hour and half hour, no way does she want to admit it is of even less value. But when a man shags a p4p, he is not being blessed with the previous jewel beyond all understanding: he is just getting a shag.

Your argument perhaps supports predominantly Western Judeo/Christian womankind's legacy indoctrination but multitudes of SPs of different stripes down the ages have been far more loose about dishing out access for less than a pretty penny.  With the progress of emancipation and liberalisation civvy women have simply brandished it as something they can indulge as cheaply as they care to whether on the altar of free love or assertion of body positivity and empowerment.
The problem we've had brewing this past decade+ is that the entitlement and greed of the younger generations coming into the trade in the wealthier nations is completely at odds with what a decent price is.  The girls offering to part their legs at the cheaper end of the markets think their punters are loaded and indescriminate, desperate for cunny they will burn money to get it.  But that's supported and compounded by the change in punters.  Before the ascendancy of geeks, incels, OFanbois and collector culture most blokes lived pretty low-key lives and didn't lavish stupid amounts of money on their interests.  Now, driven by Internet recognition, they spend thousands on PCs, comics, game rooms and other collectibles, trading faux rarities and flash in the pan gimmicks at increasingly stupid rates because there's always another mug to pay for it.  So sadly for those of us over 40 we sit at the same table as this clash of entitlement, avarice and stupidity watching jackals feeding on themselves.

Globalisation and the Internet may well have rightly given women more encouragement, choice and ability to advance themselves but it has also enabled any woman to exploit every man Worldwide for the mug he is.  Because now she doesn't even have to soil herself with his touch, she can just make him give her money from the other side of a screen, regardless of the real distance between them, as he makes like a monkey throwing his shit out the bars of his cage.

Whilst I used to enjoy paying for pretty, youthful, female company aged 20-30 pre-2010 when the girls were largely relatively unspoiled and came from "humble" means in unshackled EE nations or the fleshpots of the Far East, the deteriorating attitudes and increasing contempt of the subsequent cohorts have made it easy to turn to enjoying older women who appreciate a good suck'n'fuck at an "honest" rate.

Offline ShamrockLDN

I generally shower (if available) at the SP’s place after punting, and last time I was at it I was thinking to myself “At what point will the post-punt shower become a chargeable ‘extra’ service also, due to the rising cost of gas/electric for SPs?  :lol:




Offline Tomcat

Maybe you need to adjust your whatsapp settings?

I'm ok with that, two phones one for work family and friends the other play phone.

Family excludes the ex wife bitch.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2022, 10:14:08 pm by Tomcat »

Online LLPunting

Maybe you need to adjust your whatsapp settings?

It's his choice of service provider.  The only places I've had beg for trade have also been from the E postcodes and I've dumped or blocked their numbers because none proved "honest" or reliable.  Changing my punting number helps too.  The only managements I keep in touch with are discrete and patient in that they don't pester and they reply without complaint when I enquire about who is available, whether regularly or infrequently regardless of me making a booking.

As regards feeling the pinch I got the grump on from one N.London madam for not booking her available talent and asking who was due the following week.