Author Topic: The Politics Thread  (Read 900910 times)

Offline Marmalade

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i knew the game was up for sunak when he was pictured in those 400£ trainers, grown ups dress like grown ups. its astonishing that he has got this far.
For once we might be on the same side, Mr Loman. Sunak, however competent he may or may not be, appears to be in conflict on finances which is what he's hired to look after. He's reported himself and good luck with wriggling out of that. He's had his moment of popularity and now it's gone. He's no longer a darling to follow Boris.

Offline willie loman

Proof of lying in Parliament is very easy.  There is a full record of what he has said.  "There was no party".  The police have proof that there was.  The ministerial code says that you must not lie in Parliament and you must resign.  Therefore he has broken it and he has to go.

i would be surprised if it actually said that he had to resign, the real point is that the country has moved on as far as covo goes,

Offline Followyourdick

it is that Boris & his mates have completely lost their moral compass. 


They never had any moral compass in the first place and never fucking will. Rees Mogg, Sunak and many others are gazillionares, they don’t give a fuck and are laughing at the rest of the plebs in the country.

Offline king tarzan

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Anyone else think the Finland Prime Minister looks hot?

😋😋😋😋👅👅👅👅
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Offline suttonporksword

i would be surprised if it actually said that he had to resign, the real point is that the country has moved on as far as covo goes,

And that explains the rates of infection

Offline willie loman

And that explains the rates of infection

the public are only interested in the death rates.

Offline Blackpool Rock

Yes that's easy: what I meant was it is very hard to prove someone has lost their moral compass.
Also this assumes they had one to lose  :unknown:

Offline suttonporksword

the public are only interested in the death rates.

Glad to know you speak for us all. Any other words of wisdom.?

Offline willie loman

Glad to know you speak for us all. Any other words of wisdom.?

the caravan has moved on, just accept it. you had a good run of 2 years.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2022, 09:08:37 pm by willie loman »

Offline Doc Holliday

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i would be surprised if it actually said that he had to resign, the real point is that the country has moved on as far as covo goes,

The Ministerial code states that "Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to
the Prime Minister"

It is just a code and has no legal basis. The Prime Minister can either accept or reject the resignation. The code does not seem to mention procedure to cover what happens if it is the Prime Minister who misled parliament.

Moving on from Covid is irrelevant, unless you subscribe to the Met's bizarre statement that historical crime is not investigated .. something they quickly changed stance on.

Offline DastardlyDick

Boris lost his moral compass a long time ago!

Offline Marmalade

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Yes that's easy: what I meant was it is very hard to prove someone has lost their moral compass.
Also this assumes they had one to lose  :unknown:
Well, I wouldn't assume that... but it would actually make it even infinitely harder to prove if they never had one!!   :D

Offline willie loman

The Ministerial code states that "Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to
the Prime Minister"

It is just a code and has no legal basis. The Prime Minister can either accept or reject the resignation. The code does not seem to mention procedure to cover what happens if it is the Prime Minister who misled parliament.

Moving on from Covid is irrelevant, unless you subscribe to the Met's bizarre statement that historical crime is not investigated .. something they quickly changed stance on.

the fact that public opinion about covo has changed is actually fairly relevant, it explains that there is no real public demand that boris goes, its not something that people are talking about at the water fountain or in the pub

Offline Blackpool Rock

The Ministerial code states that "Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to
the Prime Minister"

It is just a code and has no legal basis. The Prime Minister can either accept or reject the resignation. The code does not seem to mention procedure to cover what happens if it is the Prime Minister who misled parliament.

Moving on from Covid is irrelevant, unless you subscribe to the Met's bizarre statement that historical crime is not investigated .. something they quickly changed stance on.
Perhaps it needs rewriting for the modern era, after all these rules / codes were drawn up when people had at least some sort of honour and were prepared to fall on their own sword, no such thing with Boris

Rumour has it that Sunak was considering resigning but was persuaded not to as if he went it would make it more difficult for Bojo to stay

Offline willie loman

Perhaps it needs rewriting for the modern era, after all these rules / codes were drawn up when people had at least some sort of honour and were prepared to fall on their own sword, no such thing with Boris

Rumour has it that Sunak was considering resigning but was persuaded not to as if he went it would make it more difficult for Bojo to stay

i can well believe that the rumour is true, merely shows that boris understands the english mentality, he knows there is no real demand for him to go, just the usual  fruitcakes on radio phone inns.

Offline Doc Holliday

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the fact that public opinion about covo has changed is actually fairly relevant, it explains that there is no real public demand that boris goes, its not something that people are talking about at the water fountain or in the pub

I agree but that has nothing to do with the charge of misleading parliament. Just because the matter you misled parliament about is 'historical' and no longer in the limelight doesn't change that.

That said polls are showing that a significant majority of the public think Boris should go. I think he should go, not least because he is incompetent. If there was someone much less incompetent to replace him, he would be gone by now ... but there isn't.

Offline King Nuts

I agree but that has nothing to do with the charge of misleading parliament. Just because the matter you misled parliament about is 'historical' and no longer in the limelight doesn't change that.

That said polls are showing that a significant majority of the public think Boris should go. I think he should go, not least because he is incompetent. If there was someone much less incompetent to replace him, he would be gone by now ... but there isn't.

Polls, eh. They're mostly baloney. I stopped taking notice years ago.

I honestly don't think most people give a rat's about Bozza's fine. We're all exhausted from two years of lockdowns and miscellaneous Covidcrap, and we want our lives back.

Yeah, Bozza was probably a bit naughty with his drinks 'do' or 'party' but then again, I can't think of one single person I know who stuck to both the letter and the spirit of the law - at all times - when those absurd and illogical covid rules were introduced.


Offline Doc Holliday

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Perhaps it needs rewriting for the modern era, after all these rules / codes were drawn up when people had at least some sort of honour and were prepared to fall on their own sword, no such thing with Boris


Actually it is recent. External Link/Members Only

There is a foreword by Boris which says

"To fulfil this mission, and win back the trust of the British people, we must uphold the very highest standards of propriety – and this code sets out how"

Offline Zebedee70

I hope that I word this ok as I totally respect what has been said on the counties seemingly indifference to partygate.
I’d just like to give a brief background. My mum passed away from covid in early February 2021. She had a fall at home, broke her hip, went in to hospital and caught covid in hospital, passed away in hospital.
The thing is, she followed absolutely every single rule that Johnson imposed, without exception. She wouldn’t let me in the house when I was dropping of her shopping! She cancelled Christmas 2020 as those were the rules!

So, hopefully you’ll understand my strong opinion that Johnson is a lowlife. He’s a liar! He lied to parliament, ‘no rules were broken’. Errr, yes they were! If you’re such a moron that you didn’t realise you were breaking your own rules then you are too thick to lead a country! It’s nothing to do with politics, it’s to do with a man having honour.
He’s a coward, liar and as thick as two short planks. I don’t want a scumbag like that leading the country through these difficult times, how can he be trusted to do the right thing for us? He is only interested in self preservation, without doubt he’d screw anybody over for his own benefit, so, without doubt he’d screw us over.
He should go or be pushed.

Offline catweazle

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Polls, eh. They're mostly baloney. I stopped taking notice years ago.


Ipsos MORI did the General Election exit poll last time out. They predicted the result, at 10.02pm to within 1 parliamentary seat. Some baloney!

Offline Blackpool Rock

I hope that I word this ok as I totally respect what has been said on the counties seemingly indifference to partygate.
I’d just like to give a brief background. My mum passed away from covid in early February 2021. She had a fall at home, broke her hip, went in to hospital and caught covid in hospital, passed away in hospital.
The thing is, she followed absolutely every single rule that Johnson imposed, without exception. She wouldn’t let me in the house when I was dropping of her shopping! She cancelled Christmas 2020 as those were the rules!

So, hopefully you’ll understand my strong opinion that Johnson is a lowlife. He’s a liar! He lied to parliament, ‘no rules were broken’. Errr, yes they were! If you’re such a moron that you didn’t realise you were breaking your own rules then you are too thick to lead a country! It’s nothing to do with politics, it’s to do with a man having honour.
He’s a coward, liar and as thick as two short planks. I don’t want a scumbag like that leading the country through these difficult times, how can he be trusted to do the right thing for us? He is only interested in self preservation, without doubt he’d screw anybody over for his own benefit, so, without doubt he’d screw us over.
He should go or be pushed.
Sorry to hear about your Mum, bad enough that someone dies like that but when the law makers then stick 2 fingers up and break the rules they made for us plebs it must stick in your throat, what then compounds it is people jumping onboard saying it's no big deal and everyone probably broke the rules  :thumbsdown:

As i've already posted he won't go of his own free will as the bloke has no honour or seemingly any perception of how others view him but instead just does his usual bullshit and bluster act, reverting to type and being a bumbling buffoon is what he does best

Boris has made a career from lying, it's what he does best all the way from being sacked from a newspaper for making up stories, think it was the Times and it wasn't slightly twisting and embellishing things it was complete fabrication

 External Link/Members Only

Clearly he's a leader in his chosen field of lying as someone has even taken the time to set up a website documenting his illustrious lying history so we can keep it for posterity
External Link/Members Only

Offline king tarzan

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Sorry to hear about your Mum, bad enough that someone dies like that but when the law makers then stick 2 fingers up and break the rules they made for us plebs it must stick in your throat, what then compounds it is people jumping onboard saying it's no big deal and everyone probably broke the rules  :thumbsdown:

As i've already posted he won't go of his own free will as the bloke has no honour or seemingly any perception of how others view him but instead just does his usual bullshit and bluster act, reverting to type and being a bumbling buffoon is what he does best

Boris has made a career from lying, it's what he does best all the way from being sacked from a newspaper for making up stories, think it was the Times and it wasn't slightly twisting and embellishing things it was complete fabrication

 External Link/Members Only

Clearly he's a leader in his chosen field of lying as someone has even taken the time to set up a website documenting his illustrious lying history so we can keep it for posterity
External Link/Members Only

Who would you rather have a pint with?

Johnson Putin Trump??
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Offline Blackpool Rock

Who would you rather have a pint with?

Johnson Putin Trump??
By myself thanks  :hi:  :drinks:

Offline Zebedee70

Sorry to hear about your Mum, bad enough that someone dies like that but when the law makers then stick 2 fingers up and break the rules they made for us plebs it must stick in your throat, what then compounds it is people jumping onboard saying it's no big deal and everyone probably broke the rules  :thumbsdown:

As i've already posted he won't go of his own free will as the bloke has no honour or seemingly any perception of how others view him but instead just does his usual bullshit and bluster act, reverting to type and being a bumbling buffoon is what he does best

Boris has made a career from lying, it's what he does best all the way from being sacked from a newspaper for making up stories, think it was the Times and it wasn't slightly twisting and embellishing things it was complete fabrication

 External Link/Members Only

Clearly he's a leader in his chosen field of lying as someone has even taken the time to set up a website documenting his illustrious lying history so we can keep it for posterity
External Link/Members Only

Thanks BR, really appreciate your words and totally agree with you  about Johnson.


Offline RedKettle

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Who would you rather have a pint with?

Johnson Putin Trump??

Are you saying Boris being the third worst companion globally for a beer is a good thing????  You should do his PR, he would be gone in days.

Offline mh

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Ipsos MORI did the General Election exit poll last time out. They predicted the result, at 10.02pm to within 1 parliamentary seat. Some baloney!

An exit poll isn't an opinion poll. For a start it is limiting the sample to those who bothered to turn out. It also asks them in confidence who they voted for not who they might speculatively vote for.

Opinion polls if done well can give a guide to the way things are heading, but they have a large margin of error.

Offline Marmalade

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By myself thanks  :hi:  :drinks:

You’re kidding, right?
Are you a man or a mouse?

Three deeply flawed characters who nevertheless have risen to be leaders of major powers. Who would not want the opportunity to speak to any and each of them?
(I will assume the meeting will be without minders or publicity, in a very ordinary bar, and no one will be attempting to kill the other!)

I think maybe at least two out of the three don’t drink alcohol, so that’s one of my first things to think about. The next and most important thing would be establishing a bridge in the first few seconds and minutes, as with any stranger. But you have three incredibly fascinating characters — as proven by the amount of interest on them even in this forum. So I’d want to do my best to get to the bottom of each of them.

Offline JontyR

Its a moot argument though isn't it? Despite how populist politicians present themselves none of them would ever consider for a second  lowering themselves to having even a swift half with the bloke in the street.

I'd be interested to know though whether Vladimir is perceived as someone you could have a cheeky vodka with by the Russian population.

Offline Marmalade

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mrjoydivision,

I am deeply saddened to hear about your mother and what you went through. There’s no words that can express it. I think many of us imagined such a possibility early in the pandemic, wondering if and when one our nearest and dearest would suddenly disappear from our lives. There are many in your position. Seething with frustration, anger, wondering what else could have been done. And also looking to blame someone and there are plenty of targets, one of whom you mention.

   I don’t know how long ago it was, you say February ‘21, but I expect it still feels like yesterday. And what’s especially trying is that friends and others will want to be there for you — but for a few weeks. After that human nature kicks in and they somehow expect you to ‘get over it’. It can be harsh.

   I expect you know this, and not to sound too academic, but there are well-defined stages of bereavement, and any and all of us experience or have experienced them. The first is usually denial, how could it possibly happen? They’re not coming back? Really, has it happened?? And anger, a natural human emotion soon kicks in. Or a sort of bargaining with ourselves (or God if you’re religious) — if only I had done something different, found a way to protect her. (I rehearsed that one in advance many times at the start of the pandemic). Anger and depression kick in at different times, as does blaming oneself or others. We can’t avoid these feelings — but recognising it’s a natural psychological process can sometimes help, at least with some people.

    I’m a bit of an extremist in terms of covid-19 safety measures. You might have seen from my early posts. I don’t trust the government, I don’t think the measures were soon enough or strong enough. I devised my own. I posted on here: think apocalypse! But then I also realised there’s always going to be an unknown factor. Death and disaster can strike anyone, anywhere, at any time. The disaster you describe in your life has, as you know, affected millions around the world. Everyone we know will die, some before us. The only positive is to think “it will happen one day, and I won’t be here, I’ll be buried, blown up, or falling off a hospital trolley, and there’s only so much time before it happens but also I’ve got all the time that there is, each day, what do I want to have done with my life?

      I can sympathise with your voting intention. We’ve all voted out of anger at some point. But I want to be rational person. I hate Nicola Sturgeon (when I think about her), but I never took the opportunity to become a politician when it was suggested to me. I think Boris and a Starmer are both incompetent, but they’re just doing a job and, like most of us, falling far short of perfection. I’m not going to waste my life being angry with other people. It clouds the thinking process. I want to live life passionately, make a mark, however small, for those who come after me; I’d like a different kind of government, but it’s not one that for which the steps will gain ready support yet.

       We maybe have different views about some things: but we’re also two human beings. Boris is another in the periphery of our lives — a powerful periphery, but we’ve never even met him. Is he personally responsible for many unnecessary deaths?  Possibly yes: Cummings had a better plan, but he wasn’t popular enough for people to listen. So what? We voted. We got. Let’s hope that the govt after the next election will not be worse than the one we have now, let’s hope it might be better?

One other take-away … I hope you perhaps allow yourself time, every so often, to commemorate the good memories, sayings, lessons, kindnesses of your mother. I believe it can honour her more than, or as much as, revenge. Also, eventually, maybe give you some small sense of peace.

Best wishes. M.  :hi:

Offline Marmalade

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Its a moot argument though isn't it? Despite how populist politicians present themselves none of them would ever consider for a second  lowering themselves to having even a swift half with the bloke in the street.

I'd be interested to know though whether Vladimir is perceived as someone you could have a cheeky vodka with by the Russian population.

Yeah, it’s pretty moot. A mental exercise. Though I think Boris (in the tradition of English politicos) likes to think he can chat with the “common man”.

Can we blame them? Well, yes. Who was that politician that did a door-knock only to be caught on camera by a raving woman shouting and swearing at him?

And … hence my “establishing a window” thing … you have to ask what would each of them expect or find of interest? Are you a soldier/scientist? A businessman? An Oxford toff? And would we similarly be pigeon-holing them, like an exceedingly amateur Laura Kuenssberg? I can think of interesting things about each of them but what could they think about me? Or can we really be enquiring after them like any stranger, which is the point. You don’t start a conversation by talking shop.

Offline Followyourdick

I hope that I word this ok as I totally respect what has been said on the counties seemingly indifference to partygate.
I’d just like to give a brief background. My mum passed away from covid in early February 2021. She had a fall at home, broke her hip, went in to hospital and caught covid in hospital, passed away in hospital.
The thing is, she followed absolutely every single rule that Johnson imposed, without exception. She wouldn’t let me in the house when I was dropping of her shopping! She cancelled Christmas 2020 as those were the rules!

So, hopefully you’ll understand my strong opinion that Johnson is a lowlife. He’s a liar! He lied to parliament, ‘no rules were broken’. Errr, yes they were! If you’re such a moron that you didn’t realise you were breaking your own rules then you are too thick to lead a country! It’s nothing to do with politics, it’s to do with a man having honour.
He’s a coward, liar and as thick as two short planks. I don’t want a scumbag like that leading the country through these difficult times, how can he be trusted to do the right thing for us? He is only interested in self preservation, without doubt he’d screw anybody over for his own benefit, so, without doubt he’d screw us over.
He should go or be pushed.
You have my sympathy, for what it’s worth that’s real, Johnson has said as much to folk like you as well in his many apologies, do we think he means it, does he fuck.
I’ve seen on Twitter today he’s to get another fine for another party, it really wouldn’t surprise me if that’s true and it also wouldn’t surprise me if his army of lickspittle MP’s still back him, fucking idiots including my MP who shall remain nameless for my anonymity sake but he makes my skin crawl with his virtual arse rimming of Johnson.

Offline Zebedee70

Marmalade,
I just wanted to say thank you for your kind words. I genuinely very much appreciate them.
It’s funny, when friends have had a bereavement I’ve said to them, ‘there’s no rules book, do what you need to do to cope’. You are so right about the grieving cycle, my coping mechanism at the moment is very much in the ‘blame’ stage.
Thanks also to followyourdick, you’re right too, Johnson is utterly insincere with his apologies.

Offline willie loman

An exit poll isn't an opinion poll. For a start it is limiting the sample to those who bothered to turn out. It also asks them in confidence who they voted for not who they might speculatively vote for.

Opinion polls if done well can give a guide to the way things are heading, but they have a large margin of error.

there is also the dry sherry, sweet sherry conundrum, in opinion polls everyone says they prefer dry sherry, as its socially more upmarket, but sales show that most people buy sweet sherry,

Offline DastardlyDick

A few years ago, I was on point duty while the Black Cab drivers were having on of their regular protests around Parliament Square - who should rock up but a certain Boris Johnson the MP for Hayes and Harlington in his battered Toyota Previa on his way to a Vote. in the back of the Previa was a bicycle. I spoke to one of my colleagues later, and was told that Boris brings the bike along, parks the car in the Underground car park at Parliament, then slips out of aside entrance, to "arrive", huffing, and puffing suitably, in front of the assembled media hanging around the main entrance.
There was also an allegation that when he was at School before Eton, he was given the lead in the School play - BoJo couldn't be bothered to learn his lines and stuck post it notes around the set! I
He must be the biggest scoundrels we've ever elected - but when you consider the alternatives at the time, probably the only option.

Offline Aldebaran

The people who died fighting for the vote would be massively embarrassed at how that turned out.

It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always wins (Douglas Adams)

I would say that it has been proven beyond doubt that keeping a system of government (I agree that a very different form of government may be required) that has  always failed the people is actually the real idiocy.

There are basically two forms of government, democracy or autocracy. Neither is perfect, and at times both are shite, but at least under democracy we can stand up and say "This government isn't fit for purpose!" without ending up in a cellar with electric wires taped to our balls.

Offline ulstersubbie

"This government isn't fit for purpose!" without ending up in a cellar with electric wires taped to our balls.

Christ man, us masochists have suffered enough!    :D

Offline hullad

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I always thought Boris would dodge the bullet over his parties, proving correct. He is a survivor, he has acted so long but eventually his luck will run out as it has at every job he has ever had.

I want the prat there at the next election, he has made some bad calls and will make more on the time leading upto the next general election. The last thing I want is the Tory party replacing Boris with  some one who can distance themselves from Boris. The economy is going pear shaped, the effects of the energy hike are starting to bite, more to come, Brexit is being hidden behind covid , more fines coming for Boris etc Al

It's down hill all the way

Offline marcius2018

I always thought Boris would dodge the bullet over his parties, proving correct. He is a survivor, he has acted so long but eventually his luck will run out as it has at every job he has ever had.

I want the prat there at the next election, he has made some bad calls and will make more on the time leading upto the next general election. The last thing I want is the Tory party replacing Boris with  some one who can distance themselves from Boris. The economy is going pear shaped, the effects of the energy hike are starting to bite, more to come, Brexit is being hidden behind covid , more fines coming for Boris etc Al

It's down hill all the way

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Offline mills_and_bhuna

Who would you rather have a pint with?

Johnson Putin Trump??
Putin. Hands down. Trump doesn't drink as his older brother was an alcoholic and died fairly young.
And Putin is more intellectually honest than the other two put together.

Offline Thephoenix

Who would you rather have a pint with?

Johnson Putin Trump??

Putin...... I could ask him if he fancied a novichok cocktail.

Offline lamboman

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I'd think most of the country would be jobless if they had to resign for doing what Boris did.
A leftie witch hunt which is about the only policy they have.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2022, 06:26:46 pm by lamboman »
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Offline JontyR

I'd think most of the country would be jobless if they had to resign for doing what Boris did.
A leftie witch hunt which is about the only policy they have.

You think?

I dunno, I think that time mitigates a lot of anger else if this had come out at the time he'd be a gonner.

Fact is that he is in charge. Not just of the country and the law but of the offices and gardens where this took place.

I think you are right that the language being used to whip up response is a bit exaggerated. No I wouldn't describe the evidence shown as a party. But the rules weren't about parties. They were about any gatherings. The risk to the overall population was deemed serious enough that they allowed for the imposition of fines for when rules weren't followed.

And then they ignored them, repeatedly. And the PM should have had the sense to pull the cabinet secretary over to one side and say,  "look, we really can't have this, if it were to get out we wouldn't have any credibilty with the public should we need to tell them we need to extend lockdown".

But no, it's "let's buy a fridge!!"

You do certain jobs and there becomes a realisation that you have to give up certain things or act in a certain way. Or at least hide it. As with so many things with those in power the only thing they seem to show any kind of regret for is getting caught.

Offline DastardlyDick

I think that, had Boris come clean and said "ok, we fucked up" etc, he'd have got away with it. It's the repeated lying that's dropped him right in the shit. First it was "no parties" then it was "I wasn't there" then "work related" then "no rules broken" etc, etc. Without all that, Labour would have no ammunition to have a go but instead he hands them enough to start a small war!
« Last Edit: April 15, 2022, 08:34:37 pm by DastardlyDick »

Offline Blackpool Rock

I think that, had Boris come clean and said "ok, we fucked up" etc, he'd have got away with it. It's the repeated lying that's dropped him right in the shit. First it was "no parties" then it was "I wasn't there" then "work related" then "no rules broken" etc, etc. Without all that, Labour would have no ammunition to have a go but instead he hands them enough to start a small war!
Thing is I have wondered with Keir Starmer having been a Barrister that they have a certain way of putting questions that can tie people up in knots and I would have thought that by now he would have had Boris bumbling even more than normal on many issues, perhaps he's saving it up for the election  :unknown:

Offline WASA38

Putin. Hands down. Trump doesn't drink as his older brother was an alcoholic and died fairly young.
And Putin is more intellectually honest than the other two put together.

Not sure what 'intellectually honest' is supposed to convey. 'Intelligently dishonest' would be more apt.

Anyone here sharing a drink with Mad Vlad would be well advised to take their drink with them if going for a pee but I guess you would be okay. Perhaps you have shared a drink with him.

Offline lillythesavage

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Thing is I have wondered with Keir Starmer having been a Barrister that they have a certain way of putting questions that can tie people up in knots and I would have thought that by now he would have had Boris bumbling even more than normal on many issues, perhaps he's saving it up for the election  :unknown:

No new ideas, no better policies to fight with, just picking on fuck ups.
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Offline mills_and_bhuna

Not sure what 'intellectually honest' is supposed to convey. 'Intelligently dishonest' would be more apt.

Anyone here sharing a drink with Mad Vlad would be well advised to take their drink with them if going for a pee but I guess you would be okay. Perhaps you have shared a drink with him.
You are the perfect reminder what an amazing job the Western propaganda machine has done to people's minds.
The American financial mafia have held a metaphorical gun to our heads for decades now.
They fix their own elections and blame Russia.
They fix elections around the world.
They censor any opposition as misinformation through their monopolies in Silicon Valley.
They manipulate the financial markets and cause stock market meltdowns and cause homelessness and despair on a global scale.
2008 ring any bells?
Their minions in the American political system and intelligence community backed the Maidan Coup in 2014 and have been sending money and arms to the Ukraine ever since in order to engage in ethnic cleansing of the Russian speaking population in the east of the country.
Now the west to it's eternal shame has joined these calls without a moment's reflection on it's own hypocrisy in regard to Palestine, Yemen, Libya, Syria and Afghanistan.
They just had Imran Khan removed as PM of Pakistan for having the temerity to talk to Putin.
By the way he's fine even after drinking tea with Putin. Funny that 🤔.
Now Putin has reacted to NATO's constant provocation by invasion and suddenly he's on a par with Adolf Hitler.
Wait. Scratch that. Nazis are apparently fine now according to Twitter's terms and conditions.
As long as they are Ukrainian ones.
The oil price has spiked and food prices but American Corporations and their friends in Wall Street are just fine and raking in the money. Hey even Zelensky hides his money in Panama.
Of course the man who's news outlet told you this if you'd listen now rots in a London jail on trumped up charges while the real criminals are in office or on their private yachts enjoying their Easter weekend.
And I'm supposed to believe Putin is the bad guy :unknown:


Offline JontyR

You are the perfect reminder what an amazing job the Western propaganda machine has done to people's minds.
The American financial mafia have held a metaphorical gun to our heads for decades now.
They fix their own elections and blame Russia.
They fix elections around the world.
They censor any opposition as misinformation through their monopolies in Silicon Valley.
They manipulate the financial markets and cause stock market meltdowns and cause homelessness and despair on a global scale.
2008 ring any bells?
Their minions in the American political system and intelligence community backed the Maidan Coup in 2014 and have been sending money and arms to the Ukraine ever since in order to engage in ethnic cleansing of the Russian speaking population in the east of the country.
Now the west to it's eternal shame has joined these calls without a moment's reflection on it's own hypocrisy in regard to Palestine, Yemen, Libya, Syria and Afghanistan.
They just had Imran Khan removed as PM of Pakistan for having the temerity to talk to Putin.
By the way he's fine even after drinking tea with Putin. Funny that 🤔.
Now Putin has reacted to NATO's constant provocation by invasion and suddenly he's on a par with Adolf Hitler.
Wait. Scratch that. Nazis are apparently fine now according to Twitter's terms and conditions.
As long as they are Ukrainian ones.
The oil price has spiked and food prices but American Corporations and their friends in Wall Street are just fine and raking in the money. Hey even Zelensky hides his money in Panama.
Of course the man who's news outlet told you this if you'd listen now rots in a London jail on trumped up charges while the real criminals are in office or on their private yachts enjoying their Easter weekend.
And I'm supposed to believe Putin is the bad guy :unknown:

Out of interest...what colour is the sky in your world?

Offline Marmalade

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I took “intellectually honest” more to mean honest with himself, without any judgment on good or bad. Is he clear-headed? Even if he’s a psychopath, well, a lot of psychopaths and serial killers are clear-headed in their outward strategy. Meanwhile Mr Biden has stepped up both rhetoric and supply of arms while apparently trying to shake hands with an invisible person (for those that saw or heard his latest gaffe). Putin has threatened to “flood Europe with refugees” — which probably won’t be hard to do and more effective than blowing the shit out of Kiev with missiles too early on — which probably he could also have done.

Personally I don’t think communism (or whatever we call the Russian system) is morally honest, and yes moral dishonesty is at root intellectually divided against itself in its totalitarianism. But the American “for-us-or-against-us” is also morally dishonest, and although I think, as do most people, that democracy is far better to live under than the Russian system, Biden is really not a very good example.

What seems to happen very often in Britain and America is that we vote for someone not so much for their qualities but to get rid of an incumbent. If Boris and the Tories get kicked out, is it because we believe Mr Starmer’s party has demonstrated great and noble leadership and would have done much better? As Putin’s lot sarcastically pointed out Keir couldn’t even answer the question “What is a woman?”Isn’t it that we’re just pissed off at Boris for breaking lockdown? (i.e. if he’s “not fit to run the country” that is hardly evidence the other chap is.)

It matters little. The U.K. & U.S. still play wag the dog, and Britain adds to the mess by playing poodle.

If they’d installed Assange as a political analyst to the government (instead of torturing him) and given Cummings a personal as well as government P.R. team (instead of letting dog-lover Carrie kick him out), then, with clear-headed and more truly intellectually honest people steering policy, we might have a clearer endgame in sight for the U.K. — before we try to win other people’s wars. And before we try to take the hideous big speck out of Putin’s eye.

Offline mills_and_bhuna

Out of interest...what colour is the sky in your world?
I'm not a particular fan of Putin by the way.
He's pretty conservative  and he is aligned with pretty corrupt people.
But I've no doubt he cares about the Russian people more than Trump or Biden care about the vast majority of American people.
I know we're being lied to on a daily basis. Iraq confirmed that and nothing I've seen since has changed that view.
Just out of interest do you believe that Putin is guilty of war crimes, genocide, using chemical weapons,  fixing the American election in 2016 and is a bloodthirsty psychopath?
And do you think George Bush is guilty of War crimes?
And while we're at it do you agree with Julian Assange being imprisoned and possibly being extradited?