Paying Up Front? Or Perhaps Not......

[threechilliman]

Following on from the thread about building a rapport quickly with a girl, I got to thinking about payment and the fact that we seem to think this relaxes the girl. Etiquette suggests this should be done pretty much immediately once services have been confirmed. If not, the chances of a decent punt are reduced or the WG will mess around until you pay. And if you don't pay, there's a good chance of no punt at all.

But this isn't quite what I've experienced.....

Excluding a couple of parlour visits, in 17 punts, I've paid at the end four times. Once (my first) when I was so nervous I completely forgot about it until the end - and the WG produced a great performance - enough for her to be the only one I've returned to. Three others, when I asked, told me to pay at the end (we'd sort of got carried away so it would have interrupted the flow) and they also produced great punts.

At least four others hadn't opened the envelope (which could have been empty) by the time I left and they were decent enough punts as well. These were all first visits as well so wouldn't have had any trust built up as you might with a regular.

A couple of punts haven't been so memorable - having paid up front.....

Thinking about it, I paid at the end on my first parlour visit as well, house fee excepted.

Anybody else recognise this?

No chance of it happening, but perhaps WG's should present you with a menu on arrival and would allow her to let you know which items aren't available that day. Then you can either leave or you place your order and services are delivered to everyone's satisfaction. Then, with a click of your fingers, they fetch the bill which you can settle, either with used 20's or, and I'm being futuristic now, your punting credit card!

The only issue I see is that they'll want a tip as well...

tcm

[Daffodil]

I usually pay my dues at the start, but on occasion, for whatever reason, it doesn't happen. These have often been my better punts. One of my best punts I was actually walking out of the door when she said, 'ahem?'. I'd completely forgotten (genuinely) and was a little embarrassed. Another and the girl just started kissing immediately, we got down to business, and I paid at the end.

I think girls who are relaxed and who may even enjoy the 'job' are less uptight about the money and these are girls who give a good service.

[dandaley]

id imagine if they took money after as the norm they would be flooded with chancers and robbers getting it for nothing i understand why paying up front for sex is the way it is.

[SirFrank]

I usually pay my dues at the start, but on occasion, for whatever reason, it doesn't happen. These have often been my better punts. One of my best punts I was actually walking out of the door when she said, 'ahem?'. I'd completely forgotten (genuinely) and was a little embarrassed. Another and the girl just started kissing immediately, we got down to business, and I paid at the end.

I think girls who are relaxed and who may even enjoy the 'job' are less uptight about the money and these are girls who give a good service.

+1. One particularly memorable punt this year was a pay at the end job because the gal was all over the minute I walked through the door. It certainly felt less like a business transaction.

[Jimmyredcab]

I usually pay my dues at the start.

Generally speaking we have little choice, can't say I blame the girls really, if I take someone on a £70 taxi ride I often ask for pre-payment ---------- especially late at night.

[Outcallguy]

I find as i only do outcalls the girls who want money up front. Provide a bad service. Presumably as they have thier cash.
The ones who are laid back and take the money at the end  they are the good ones.

[Jimmyredcab]

I find as i only do outcalls the girls who want money up front. Provide a bad service. Presumably as they have thier cash.
The ones who are laid back and take the money at the end  they are the good ones.

So what do these girls do when the punter refuses to pay up at the end of the session, in this country it is quite normal to pay upfront ---------------- unless the girl has got to know you well.

[James999]

I find as i only do outcalls the girls who want money up front. Provide a bad service. Presumably as they have thier cash.
The ones who are laid back and take the money at the end  they are the good ones.

Sounds liks bullshit to me as it is the norm to pay the girl on arrival, if you're not doing this you are creating an awkward situation, and perhaps tha's why you're experiencing bad service 

[Bristol Helena]

So what do these girls do when the punter refuses to pay up at the end of the session, in this country it is quite normal to pay upfront ---------------- unless the girl has got to know you well.

I used to not mind with regulars, if I've built up a rapport, but I had one who walked out without paying after I had been seeing him about twice a month for a year. I text him casually about it, asking him if he could pop the money through my letter box next time he was in town but never heard anything again.

It's a shame because of these small minority (he couldn't say it was because I'd lied to him about my services or specifics; he'd been seeing me for a year) that we feel we have to take it up front,  because it does seem mercenary...

[Jimmyredcab]

Sounds liks bullshit to me as it is the norm to pay the girl on arrival.

Most girls would insist on being paid first, not a problem unless she wants to take the money out to her driver Sergei. 

[tesla]

I usually pay my dues at the start, but on occasion, for whatever reason, it doesn't happen. These have often been my better punts. One of my best punts I was actually walking out of the door when she said, 'ahem?'. I'd completely forgotten (genuinely) and was a little embarrassed. Another and the girl just started kissing immediately, we got down to business, and I paid at the end.

I think girls who are relaxed and who may even enjoy the 'job' are less uptight about the money and these are girls who give a good service.

I tend to agree with the above, I have never not paid but had a few escorts forget to ask me for the money, In which case I always pass the envelope as I am about to leave.

[yorkshire123]

So what do these girls do when the punter refuses to pay up at the end of the session, in this country it is quite normal to pay upfront ---------------- unless the girl has got to know you well.

I'm with Jimmy on this one shocking as it may be, but even a broken clock is right twice a day 

With a newbie payment is always upfront, regulars seem to be happy for it afterwards but i always insist that they count it as i would hate to mistakenly short change them.

[smiths]

Following on from the thread about building a rapport quickly with a girl, I got to thinking about payment and the fact that we seem to think this relaxes the girl. Etiquette suggests this should be done pretty much immediately once services have been confirmed. If not, the chances of a decent punt are reduced or the WG will mess around until you pay. And if you don't pay, there's a good chance of no punt at all.

But this isn't quite what I've experienced.....

Excluding a couple of parlour visits, in 17 punts, I've paid at the end four times. Once (my first) when I was so nervous I completely forgot about it until the end - and the WG produced a great performance - enough for her to be the only one I've returned to. Three others, when I asked, told me to pay at the end (we'd sort of got carried away so it would have interrupted the flow) and they also produced great punts.

At least four others hadn't opened the envelope (which could have been empty) by the time I left and they were decent enough punts as well. These were all first visits as well so wouldn't have had any trust built up as you might with a regular.

A couple of punts haven't been so memorable - having paid up front.....

Thinking about it, I paid at the end on my first parlour visit as well, house fee excepted.

Anybody else recognise this?

No chance of it happening, but perhaps WG's should present you with a menu on arrival and would allow her to let you know which items aren't available that day. Then you can either leave or you place your order and services are delivered to everyone's satisfaction. Then, with a click of your fingers, they fetch the bill which you can settle, either with used 20's or, and I'm being futuristic now, your punting credit card!

The only issue I see is that they'll want a tip as well...

tcm

Most newbie WGs to me have wanted my cash beforehand. EE WGs in particular are usually VERY keen to get the money safely stashed away. Been this way for all my over 30 years of punting generally, cant see it changing anytime soon.

Many regulars over the years havent asked for the money beforehand but i have given it to them anyway.

[CBPaul]

Only once have I ever paid at the end. Otherwise it's always been at the start, some girls almost have their hand out waiting for the cash, others have given a kiss and a cuddle but then asked for the money.

I guess it protects against the risk of non payment after the punt, sometimes they disappear off to stash the cash and contact someone to let them know they have a punter / the punter seems OK.

It only becomes an issue to me if it turns into a punt where I want a refund, then the prossie has the upper hand. The idea of a seamless, discrete transaction, sealed envelope and all that, doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me. The 'getting the paperwork out of the way' approach is a bit too GFE fantasy to my mind, I'm paying a prossie for sex after all.

[smiths]

Only once have I ever paid at the end. Otherwise it's always been at the start, some girls almost have their hand out waiting for the cash, others have given a kiss and a cuddle but then asked for the money.

I guess it protects against the risk of non payment after the punt, sometimes they disappear off to stash the cash and contact someone to let them know they have a punter / the punter seems OK.

It only becomes an issue to me if it turns into a punt where I want a refund, then the prossie has the upper hand. The idea of a seamless, discrete transaction, sealed envelope and all that, doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me. The 'getting the paperwork out of the way' approach is a bit too GFE fantasy to my mind, I'm paying a prossie for sex after all.

Personally i see no point in using an envelope as i always count the money out in front of WGs to ensure there are no "misunderstandings". Why on earth would i need an envelope, popular with some punters though as i know from when its been discussed before on punting forums.

[akauya]

It happens rarely but some girls do ask for the money after the meeting. The last I remember did this with me was Busty Angel, when I was getting the money out she said to pay her later. After the meeting when I gave it to her she didn't even count it. She told me to leave it on her dresser. I was very surprised because that was the first time I saw her.

Sometimes I was pleasantly surprised when some girls even gave me money back because in my haste I gave them too much - yes I know I should get the right amount before I go in but sometimes shit happens and you forget.

[pokenn]

I've always given the girl the money up front. A few haven't bother to count it, but none ever told me to pay at the end.

I prefer to pay up front - helps to establish trust which makes for a good punt.

[akauya]

Personally i see no point in using an envelope as i always count the money out in front of WGs to ensure there are no "misunderstandings". Why on earth would i need an envelope, popular with some punters though as i know from when its been discussed before on punting forums.

You posted this just before me. Yes after giving some prossies too much money I make an issue to count it in front of them now.

[cockneybstrd]

I find as i only do outcalls the girls who want money up front. Provide a bad service. Presumably as they have thier cash.
The ones who are laid back and take the money at the end  they are the good ones.

What a load of guff.

[CBPaul]

Sometimes I was pleasantly surprised when some girls even gave me money back because in my haste I gave them too much - yes I know I should get the right amount before I go in but sometimes shit happens and you forget.

I did that once and she gave the excess back, felt a complete wally who wouldn't count to 100 in 20's. I do exactly the same thing now, count the money in front if them.

[taz973]

I have never paid at the end, maybe I look dodgy but even the girl I see every month always takes money at the beginning I once didn't hand the money over as I arrived and she asked me for it before she would start.  Personally I doubt it has much impact on the level of service they provide and as mentioned by other posters paying at the end could lead to all sorts of issues.

[G-style]

With a girl I have seen often there was an occasion where we got in to it right from the front door and I only remembered to pay her as I was about to leave. She then told me of the time she was working with her friend on a duo and each had thought the guy had paid the other girl and they only worked it out about an hour after he had left. The dirty rotten cheating lucky bastard.   

[threechilliman]

I should be clear, my intention is always to pay on arrival as per the advice given out on here.

Some girls make it difficult though as it's them that have got stuck into me before I've even got my coat off. One had me pinned to the bed before I had chance to get my hand in my pocket. And I ain't God's gift by any stretch......

tcm

[myothernameis]

For all the times I had seen girls at a massage parlour, the money was always paid at the end, and in those days, you got value for your money

Escort at massage parlour, entrance fee for 1 hr, £15; service from the escort, sex, oral, massage, kissing all for £60, so in total £75 for 1 hr with the girl

Now a days, if your looking for the same fun, that may cost you between £120-£150

[myothernameis]

One had me pinned to the bed before I had chance to get my hand in my pocket.

There an escort in Glasgow, who is exactly like that, the minute your in the bedroom, she basically pounces on you

[Outcallguy]

What a load of guff.

Why's paying the end a load of guff?
I was just voicing my experience.

I don't expect to finish a months work and have my boss say "what you don't expect me to pay for that do you?"
And in exactly the same way, I'd never not pay a girl at the end, because it's just not the done thing.

As someone has pointed out there's a minority who make the world a worse of place for the rest of us.
I'm sure they are the same people who leave restaurants without paying, and the like...

[socks]

Some girls make it difficult though as it's them that have got stuck into me before I've even got my coat off. One had me pinned to the bed before I had chance to get my hand in my pocket. And I ain't God's gift by any stretch......

I find it quite awkward especially when on a first visit, that the girl gets straight into it. I quite like the routine of saying hello, handing over the cash, little bit of small talk etc. It gives me time to catch my breath, triple check in my mind that I've freshened my breath, not got too sweaty an arse, don't need a piss (unless it's a WS session of course), remind myself again of what I want to do with her and so on. Never paid at the end cos I've always made the time at the start in this, let's call it the settling in period. Having said that the next time a reg dives straight in I'm resolving to go with it and see how long it takes for her to "remind" me of my obligation. I'm aiming to achieve an as I'm about to leave "fuck me (whoever) we've forgotten the paperwork"

[sash]

dare i say but I echo Outcallguy's earlier comment.
girls that take funds at the end are the ones that provide the most relaxed and probably best service.

I tend to leave the money in plain sight on a table. The girls rarely ask and in-fact 3 of them have actually got to the door in the morning and forgot to pick up the money - sound ridiculous but I had to call two of them back! they have become regulars, so maybe they are relaxed.

with incalls, they always ask for the money first. Only one well known girl Cisco/others and I have commented on, snogs the life out of you on entry, so no chance of giving her money - again, guess she got to know me/us regulars.

[Jimmyredcab]

And in exactly the same way, I'd never not pay a girl at the end, because it's just not the done thing.

You may think that but not all punters are so honest, once the guy has emptied his bollocks there is always the risk that he will default.

Any girl who doesn't insist on pre-payment from new clients is taking a huge gamble 

[oldanddecrepid]

One of the reasons I always liked punting in Montreal is that, for outcalls, the girls I saw NEVER asked for the money first. It lay in an envelope on the desk in the room and as the girl left, subtly put the envelope in her handbag (there is an expectation for a tip however) and left. I can't imagine that punters there are more or less trustworthy than us Brits and it is good that this level of trust exists. Mind you, in the case of a non-payment I daresay the 'driver' might pay you a visit.

Even in the UK I have had a few outcall girls that trust you enough to take the money afterwards (it is not a coincidence that these are girls I will often see again). Not many though, I have more 'no-shows'

I hate when some girls don't just count out the notes up front but check to see if they are forgeries as well. I will never return.

O and D

[Dani]

I hate when some girls don't just count out the notes up front but check to see if they are forgeries as well. I will never return.

O and D

If you go into a shop and they check the money is not a forgery do you never go back there either or is it just prossies who should not check.


I don't check until the client has left normally unless he looks a bit dodgy but I do state I no longer accept £50 notes after being caught out a couple of times with dodgy ones.

I also take the money upfront for new clients unless I have a feel for them before hand from forums or just regular contact.  I wish we could trust everyone to pay at the end as it would make the booking flow so much easier but we cant unfortunately.  Those who do are the ones you see regularly on Saafe complaining they got stitched up.
For the majority of guys I have met before I am happy to take payment at the end and then if I get ripped off it is my own fault for misjudging them as I do have a some regs that I don't trust to pay at the end so do take the money upfront and have to count it in front of them as there has been a couple of attempts to 'accidently' short change me

It is normally quite easy to work out who will and who wont try to do this but we do make the odd mistake

However for outcalls it is always money upfront as it is just too easy for them to throw you out without paying especially in a hotel as they know we wont make a scene and risk the police being called

[broksonic]

I always pay straight away , and have no problem at all if she counts it in front of me

[taz973]

One of the reasons I always liked punting in Montreal is that, for outcalls, the girls I saw NEVER asked for the money first. It lay in an envelope on the desk in the room and as the girl left, subtly put the envelope in her handbag (there is an expectation for a tip however) and left. I can't imagine that punters there are more or less trustworthy than us Brits and it is good that this level of trust exists. Mind you, in the case of a non-payment I daresay the 'driver' might pay you a visit.

Even in the UK I have had a few outcall girls that trust you enough to take the money afterwards (it is not a coincidence that these are girls I will often see again). Not many though, I have more 'no-shows'

I hate when some girls don't just count out the notes up front but check to see if they are forgeries as well. I will never return.

O and D

Tipping is also an issue in terms of when to do it the end or beginning of a punt. When I was looking into the amsterdam escort scene again where tipping in the privehouses is common there was similar debate on whether should tip first so the wg would be "more relaxed and friendly"or tip later so "she put in more effort to get a tip"  I always went for beginning as just seemed more comfortable to say here is €130 rather than say hand over a €20 note at the end

[Jimmyredcab]

If you go into a shop and they check the money is not a forgery do you never go back there either or is it just prossies who should not check.

You can't compare the girl on Tesco's till to a prostitute.     

I would be pretty pissed off if the pro$$ie held my notes up to the light to check them.     

[Ali Katt]

Some of my better punts have been were I've paid the girl at the end. I don't mind if it's "upfront", but if In get an inclination it will be a rubbish experience, I would walk.

[Jimmyredcab]

Some of my better punts have been were I've paid the girl at the end. I don't mind if it's "upfront", but if In get an inclination it will be a rubbish experience, I would walk.

One small flaw in your theory ----------------- sometimes the attitude can change once the cash has changed hands, if you then demand a refund you may have to deal with Sergei.   

[Daffodil]

Tipping is also an issue in terms of when to do it the end or beginning of a punt. When I was looking into the amsterdam escort scene again where tipping in the privehouses is common there was similar debate on whether should tip first so the wg would be "more relaxed and friendly"or tip later so "she put in more effort to get a tip"  I always went for beginning as just seemed more comfortable to say here is €130 rather than say hand over a €20 note at the end

Tipping is not an issue, you don't do it 

[akauya]

Tipping is not an issue, you don't do it 

Too bloody right.


People can call me a tight cunt if they want but we pay so much money to prossies as it is why pay extra?

I have an issue with the tipping business anyway. You get paid for doing a job. You are expected to do it well (in any industry) and you get paid for it. I do my job very well and I don't expect tips. Why is it that waiters, taxi drivers and others in service industries expect a tip is beyond me.

[Toby]

Tipping is also an issue in terms of when to do it the end or beginning of a punt.

I prefer to give a tip at the start: "don't stash your cash where it can be nicked" is a good one.

[adindas]

I will say it is only an extremely stupid prossies will allow you to pay at the end if they have not met the customers before.
They are dealing with very wide range types of customers. How could they know the visitors are not ex-criminals, gang-members, fraudsters, con-artists, etc.

How could they know that after giving the service, the punter will pay and not just drift way using various excuses such as I forgot my wallet in the car, I do not realize that I do not have a cash with me will you wait a second I will come back, or ask to pay with bogus cheque,  etc, etc ...

In my personal experience, if you discuss what service is included directly with the prossies before paying it (not via receptionist on the phone) they will deliver those services. In the worst case if they did not you could still do a lot of things (in fair deal of course) for instance claw back some of your money. If they did not tell them I would stay in the room until I got my part of money back. They normally will refund some of your money if you threaten like this as if you stay in the room, they can not get the next customer.

[Ali Katt]

In my personal experience, if you discuss what service is included directly with the prossies before paying it (not via receptionist on the phone) they will deliver those services. In the worst case if they did not you could still do a lot of things (in fair deal of course) for instance claw back some of your money. If they did not tell them I would stay in the room until I got my part of money back. They normally will refund some of your money if you threaten like this as if you stay in the room, they can not get the next customer.

What if their pimp, Winston turns up?

[Jimmyredcab]

Tipping is not an issue, you don't do it 

Correction ------------- YOU don't do it, you can't speak for others.   

[adindas]

What if their pimp, Winston turns up?

I have not been in this situation yet.
But if I were in this situation, I would use my common sense. I will just gave up and say ok I will take it as a lost andl I will not come back.
You will never know their pimp have a knife or even gun with them ... I will not fight and  risking my life for just £100.00. I might do that if I am defending £100,000.

 

[Jimmyredcab]

I have not been in this situation yet.
But if I were in this situation, I would use my common sense. I will just gave up and say ok I will take it as a lost andl I will not come back.
You will never know their pimp have a knife or even gun with them ... I will not fight and  risking my life for just £100.00. I might do that if I am defending £100,000.

A very sensible outlook, we have one idiot on here who claims he would fight the pimp, simply not worth the risk.   

[Johny Stone]

I always pay upfront, even when I see my regular. I Think it's better for the girl to be relaxed about payment.

[Silver Birch]

It is ALWAYS my intention to pay on arrival. There have been 3 occasions that I forgot due to the speed the punt got under way. All were 2nd visits and it wasn't an issue, but I was horrified each time when I remembered.

It does amuse me some of the sensitive souls who punt though. I hand the cash over, ask them to count it (some still don't), and on the one occasion she produced a pen to check for forgeries, it didn't bother me one bit.

Pissing around with envelopes, and giving tips, not my thing at all.

[Jimmyredcab]

and on the one occasion she produced a pen to check for forgeries, it didn't bother me one bit.

I would have snatched the money back and told her not to bother.   

[Toby]

I would have snatched the money back and told her not to bother.   

The correct etiquette under those circumstances would have been to draw all over her tits with the security pen, to "check for fakes". 

[dandaley]

its a business why the fuck shouldnt they check every other business does, tbh wouldnt take a 50.00 to a punt anyway and if you do expect it dont get the problem with her checking at all.

[JV547845]

Do cash machines even give £50 notes out?