Author Topic: RT News  (Read 5606 times)

Offline Marmalade

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Why do you single-out Ukraine and the West for not honouring the Minsk agreements?   They (there were two) were clearly not honoured by Russia and the Russian-backed separatists, either, who soon resumed their shelling and even attacked Donetsk airport, for example.  It was pretty clear from the start that they had no intention of honouring them (their failure to honour the first one was why a second was needed).

Of course, Ukraine's failure to follow the Minsk agreements is one of the reasons Russia is now trotting out as an excuse for invading.

I think you are incorrect.

Offline Marmalade

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My 2p's worth: I have found the coverage in the UK news media of recent events in Ukraine to be unbelievably shallow, facile, and biased towards the standard Establishment view of geopolitics in general. There's been very little depth or explanation or analysis of the history between Russia and Ukraine, and I've found by turning to outlets as diverse as RT and the Los Angeles Times that I've gained a lot more insight.

Context is everything. History, and an understanding of it, is everything. And we don't get it in the UK news media any more.

This is very true. When Wikileaks was running it could be relied on for factual international information, on record as such, much as that upsets some people who feel the info was I’ll-gotten. But facts are not enough to fill a news program. Even the Economist, which I regard as factual and well-researched, goes to some length to explain its own bias. This puts it on a closer level to medical studies which make a point of declaring any bias in their selection of sources or algorithms.

For online news, I flicked between many channels and learnt something new from all of them.

Offline petermisc

My 2p's worth: I have found the coverage in the UK news media of recent events in Ukraine to be unbelievably shallow, facile, and biased towards the standard Establishment view of geopolitics in general. There's been very little depth or explanation or analysis of the history between Russia and Ukraine, and I've found by turning to outlets as diverse as RT and the Los Angeles Times that I've gained a lot more insight.

Context is everything. History, and an understanding of it, is everything. And we don't get it in the UK news media any more.
I agree about the context.  And that it is good to see things from the other view point.

I think that you are confusing news and current affairs.  News is about reporting what is happening now, whereas Current affairs is about explaining the context and background.  The main news bulletins and tabloid newspapers don't have the space to cover much more than the basic news, and never have had.  Sadly, there are fewer current affairs programmes around today than there used to be, but it is still there.  Channel 4 news, the Today programme, the 5 o'clock programme, the various 24 hour news channels all cover things in much more detail.  There was a very good segment yesterday, for example, explaining the history behind the antipathy between the Ukrainians and the Russians.

And of course the BBC news website usually has several long-reads explaining the background to major news items.

To say that we don't get this information in the UK news media anymore is patently incorrect.  It just depends on which media you use, and how hard you look.

Offline petermisc

This is very true. When Wikileaks was running it could be relied on for factual international information, on record as such, much as that upsets some people who feel the info was I’ll-gotten..
My main issue with Wikileaks is fhat while the leaks were factual, it was all very one-sided.  If they had put as much effort into leaking say Russian or Chinese state secrets as American.  Or if all Donald Trump's emails had been leaked as well as Hilary Clinton's.  You couldn't help but think that either they had an agenda, or were being used.

Offline petermisc

I think you are incorrect.
About what?

Didn't you point out that Ukraine had failed to honour the agreement, but fail to mention that so had Russia?

Isn't Russia now using Ukraine's failure to honour the agreement as one of the pretexts to invade?  Again, without mentioning that they had also failed to honour their side of the agreement.

Didn't the Russian separatists continue to make further attacks and incursions after both agreements?

Offline Watts.E.Dunn

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The first casualty in war is the truth;(....

Offline Marmalade

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My main issue with Wikileaks is fhat while the leaks were factual, it was all very one-sided.  If they had put as much effort into leaking say Russian or Chinese state secrets as American.  Or if all Donald Trump's emails had been leaked as well as Hilary Clinton's.  You couldn't help but think that either they had an agenda, or were being used.

I on the other hand can indeed help but think that actually.

If you read Wikileaks a) they exposed quite a bit of Russia — it simply wasn’t such big news as we already understand Russia is not exactly a sweet sister. b) they could only write what they were given, after checking it as thoroughly as possible (which was pretty extensive). c) Clinton left herself wide open on so many fronts, unsecured communications, massive de-facto bribes, and her part in invasions and in kicking off the disastrous Arab Spring. Trump’s exaggerations, apparent misogyny, all those things were perfectly obvious and hardly news, and he even suggested duping the taxman was clever if you could get away with it. They were both anti-Assange and if Assange was open to bias, which numerous awards, interviews and investigations suggest he wasn’t, Russia has never been open arms to him — they are even more anti-transparency than America. He has censored some of his own reports when he felt they were against America’s National interest or putting lives in danger — just that his precise judgement on that doesn’t gel with those that want such information as Abu Ghraib or shooting of news reporters censored anyway. Unlike News Corporations that published the same information, he was an easier scapegoat.

I’ve given you a fuller answer than I think appropriate on this occasion as a courtesy, though I’m not clear about whether you yourself are free from bias. You make a lot of statements that seem to me emotionally fuelled rather than substantive, so if you disagree with me I only suggest you do your research and I’ll do mine.

 :hi:

Offline King Nuts

As things are unfolding, and more and more bits of news (or it could be gossip, propaganda, bias etc., as you wish) start to come out, I've been reading all manner of things from different sources.

1. There's apparently been a major expansion of Nazi-style militias in Ukraine
2.  Biolabs have spring up everywhere in the country, the nature and purpose of which remain unclear
3. Money laundering has become a significant industry in Ukraine

I'm not saying I believe everything I read, but I do know that the UK media's reporting is extremely sensationalist. For example:

'Russian forces capture Chernobyl nuclear power station', and then you read a few sentences down that it was decommissioned more than twenty years ago.

So it's not a power station. It's a series of empty buildings.


Offline King Nuts


To say that we don't get this information in the UK news media anymore is patently incorrect.  It just depends on which media you use, and how hard you look.

I have not read anything in the UK news media that treats us like adults, except possibly on the Daily Telegraph website. I just can't take the BBC news website seriously any more, same with the Times, Mail and the rest of them. I have, and have had subscriptions to most of them at one time or another.

American newspapers, what's left of them, still take their readers seriously. Or at least the Los Angeles Times does.

Offline Marmalade

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As things are unfolding, and more and more bits of news (or it could be gossip, propaganda, bias etc., as you wish) start to come out, I've been reading all manner of things from different sources.

1. There's apparently been a major expansion of Nazi-style militias in Ukraine
2.  Biolabs have spring up everywhere in the country, the nature and purpose of which remain unclear
3. Money laundering has become a significant industry in Ukraine

I'm not saying I believe everything I read, but I do know that the UK media's reporting is extremely sensationalist. For example:

'Russian forces capture Chernobyl nuclear power station', and then you read a few sentences down that it was decommissioned more than twenty years ago.

So it's not a power station. It's a series of empty buildings.

It’s interesting how Putin got his ducks in a row by accusing Kiev of the very things he was about to inflict    — ‘Nazification’ was a word he used early as something than needed to be ‘eradicated’. The West is almost doing catch up with jingoism.

Having said, on the morning of the attack as it unfolded shortly after 5 a.m., most Western sites were simply floundering and rushing to report actual facts — a pleasant change given the weeks of supposition. Now with less drama until Kiev falls, there are more ‘human’ stories showing, quite believably, the distress people are suffering (though not quite same as statistics and first hand observation). RT did the sob story in advance with cheesy first hand ‘testimony’ from people in Donbas to show support for Russia. Russia has gone to great lengths to accuse the West with hyperbole. Now it’s our turn. Though at least we have better facts to base it on.

Offline sir wanksalot

As things are unfolding, and more and more bits of news (or it could be gossip, propaganda, bias etc., as you wish) start to come out, I've been reading all manner of things from different sources.

1. There's apparently been a major expansion of Nazi-style militias in Ukraine
2.  Biolabs have spring up everywhere in the country, the nature and purpose of which remain unclear
3. Money laundering has become a significant industry in Ukraine

I'm not saying I believe everything I read, but I do know that the UK media's reporting is extremely sensationalist. For example:

'Russian forces capture Chernobyl nuclear power station', and then you read a few sentences down that it was decommissioned more than twenty years ago.

So it's not a power station. It's a series of empty buildings.

Exactly. It's one of the reasons I didn't really believe Putin would invade as I thought the media were just drumming up hysterical headlines

Offline Marmalade

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Exactly. It's one of the reasons I didn't really believe Putin would invade as I thought the media were just drumming up hysterical headlines

# The fact that they were indeed drumming up hysterical headlines didn’t alter the fact Putin invaded.
# The possibility that American rhetoric, publicly and diplomatically, could be said to have exacerbated the situation, doesn’t mean Putin wouldn’t have invaded anyway.
# The fact that Western media frequently pads and sensationalises stories doesn’t mean it is always wrong.
# The fact that RT is a propaganda machine doesn’t mean that its anti-Western reports are always counter-factual.
# The effect of a crisis immediately polarises news. Most countries are not very self-critical in the first place. Some degree of foreign reporting can be a signpost for further investigation (this is so even for comparatively open and neutral countries.
# The fact that your enemy will see your faults before you do is not a reason always to discount everything he says (RT was more factual, even if offensively so, before the Ukraine crisis).

These are basic rules of debate. Only my opinion.
But another rule of debate is that most people are unskilled in formal logic.
Hence Schopenhauer little tract, The Art of Always Being Right:D

Offline chrishornx

No I disagree. You need to know the enemy’s best arguments to defeat them.

what are you disagreeing with - Totally agree the best arguments and info of both sides are needed  - but not the propaganda bollocks of RT

on the one hand you disagree with me and on the other you agree about the crap of RT which is what I am referring to - which is it to be ?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 07:54:22 pm by chrishornx »

Offline Marmalade

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what are you disagreeing with - Totally agree the best arguments and info of both sides are needed  - but not the propaganda bollocks of RT

on the one hand you disagree with me and on the other you agree about the crap of RT which is what I am referring to - which is it to be ?

Chrishornx, I'm not being disingenuous, but you can have both. RT spouts an enormous amount of bollocks, especially when there's a national issue at stake (e.g. Ukraine or poisonings), but it doesn't mean everything they spout is bollocks. Pre-Ukraine they spouted a lot of humorous angles meant to ridicule Western failings. They are good at seeing the silly side of things we take overly seriously or (especially America) fail to mention. They don't poke fun at Russia. Mostly real stories but the selectiveness is very biased. America gets very little objective news that is critical of America. We get plenty that is critical of Russia and a fair amount that is critical of the UK, mostly argumentative. The Guardian used to be a bit of a watchdog until MI5 went in and smashed up their hard drives, now they toe the line. Harry & Meghan are bad guys one side of the Atlantic and a good guys the other. There's no need IMO to accept or reject anything uncritically, but to maintain an open mind until the evidence becomes more conclusive.

I started this thread well before the Ukraine crisis: I'm not going to defend RT in the face of it. IF you can't accept agreement on some things and disagreement on others, tough.  :drinks:

Offline chrishornx

Chrishornx, I'm not being disingenuous, but you can have both. RT spouts an enormous amount of bollocks, especially when there's a national issue at stake (e.g. Ukraine or poisonings), but it doesn't mean everything they spout is bollocks. Pre-Ukraine they spouted a lot of humorous angles meant to ridicule Western failings. They are good at seeing the silly side of things we take overly seriously or (especially America) fail to mention. They don't poke fun at Russia. Mostly real stories but the selectiveness is very biased. America gets very little objective news that is critical of America. We get plenty that is critical of Russia and a fair amount that is critical of the UK, mostly argumentative. The Guardian used to be a bit of a watchdog until MI5 went in and smashed up their hard drives, now they toe the line. Harry & Meghan are bad guys one side of the Atlantic and a good guys the other. There's no need IMO to accept or reject anything uncritically, but to maintain an open mind until the evidence becomes more conclusive.

I started this thread well before the Ukraine crisis: I'm not going to defend RT in the face of it. IF you can't accept agreement on some things and disagreement on others, tough.  :drinks:

So RT spout enormous bollocks, ridicule failing and show  biased selectiveness,. All I have said is that an open mind is important but not to watch propaganda crap - I just do not see where we disagree we seem to have the same view

however I don't agree you started this thread before the Ukraine crisis it has been festering for years and Putin starting amassing troops in December   :drinks: :drinks:

Offline Marmalade

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Quote
   precisely complete bollocks blurted out by Kremlin fuelled stooges - both sides opinions are always useful but watching propaganda and boosting RT viewing figures just leads to more propaganda
Quote
No I disagree. You need to know the enemy’s best arguments to defeat them.
It was a friendly disagreement on a small point. You seem to take it to heart.

So RT spout enormous bollocks, ridicule failing and show  biased selectiveness,. All I have said is that an open mind is important but not to watch propaganda crap - I just do not see where we disagree we seem to have the same view
We don't disagree in principle. But RT does present a 'view' as well as propaganda. For instance on the other thread, someone complained that the Beeb didn't show much of Putin's speech when it was kicking into high gear. RT did. I don't speak Russian so can't vouch for perfect translation but much of what he said was quoted by western media later and don't have much reason to doubt that the English subtitles were reasonably accurate. They followed that a day later I think with what seemed to me clearly staged interviews with Donbas residents and buses of people representing "hundreds of thousands" of refugees. It doesn't take a genius to work out which is fact and which is propaganda. As far as one more unregistered viewing goes, you have a point if you feel that is important.

Quote
however I don't agree you started this thread before the Ukraine crisis it has been festering for years and Putin starting amassing troops in
That's splitting hairs a bit isn't it? I started the thread mid-January. At that time I think a lot of people were saying he wasn't going to invade.

If I make an error, I'm happy to be corrected: but you need at least an ounce of goodwill to see it when it's there, and share a topic looking for interesting facts rather picking arguments over inconsequential.

If we disagree on anything, as far as I can gather it is that you maybe think no-one should ever watch RT News: whereas I think people with a modicum of analytical intelligence may legitimately watch out of interest. I don't see it fometing pro-Russian protests anywhere.

Offline Matrix

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I tuned in for the first time in years, yesterday. 

It's always been a case of best watching them for news on us and vice versa.

The propaganda was off the fucking charts yesterday, however.

Russia singlehandedly won WW2!  :rolleyes:

They "think" they could take all of continental Europe in less than a week!  :lol:

France should've also been partitioned as "they complied with the nazis".

Didn't hear anyone mentioning that Russia and the U.S.S.R were practically fucking allied to the nazis for the first couple of years in the war. Ask the Poles.

As usual, it'll be left to us to clean up Europe's shite.

Offline petermisc

I tuned in for the first time in years, yesterday. 
The propaganda was off the fucking charts yesterday, however.
Their standard tactic after something like this, as per the Salisbury poisonings, MH17 downing, etc is to fling crap in all directions, to justify and distract, no matter how ridiculous and implausible.  They know most of it won't stick, but if just some of sways opinion slightly, they have done their job.

Online scutty brown

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External Link/Members Only

Anonymous takes down websites of Defense Ministry, RT and Kremlin

Offline petermisc

As things are unfolding, and more and more bits of news (or it could be gossip, propaganda, bias etc., as you wish) start to come out, I've been reading all manner of things from different sources.
1. There's apparently been a major expansion of Nazi-style militias in Ukraine

'Russian forces capture Chernobyl nuclear power station', and then you read a few sentences down that it was decommissioned more than twenty years ago. So it's not a power station. It's a series of empty buildings.
Unfortunately far-right thinking has been on the rise in many of the ex-Eastern bloc countries, partly as a backlash against the previous oppressive socialist ideology, partly due to loss of major industries, and due to levels of immigration.  Poland, Hungary, East Germany etc.

As someone who lives close to a decommissioned nuclear power station, I know that it is far from just a "series of empty buildings".  It is still a highly radioactive site.  The reports that there has been a sudden dramatic spike in radioactivity there suggests to me that shelling may have breached the containment buildings.  I am presuming that this was accidental, as even though the Russians view the Ukrainians in much the same way as the Nazis viewed the Poles, I can't believe they would do such a thing deliberately.  I know who RT will blame, though.

Online sparkus

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Unfortunately far-right thinking has been on the rise in many of the ex-Eastern bloc countries, partly as a backlash against the previous oppressive socialist ideology, partly due to loss of major industries, and due to levels of immigration.  Poland, Hungary, East Germany etc.

As someone who lives close to a decommissioned nuclear power station, I know that it is far from just a "series of empty buildings".  It is still a highly radioactive site.  The reports that there has been a sudden dramatic spike in radioactivity there suggests to me that shelling may have breached the containment buildings.  I am presuming that this was accidental, as even though the Russians view the Ukrainians in much the same way as the Nazis viewed the Poles, I can't believe they would do such a thing deliberately.  I know who RT will blame, though.

The spike recorded was from the vibrations of heavy vehicles moving through terrain which has not been disturbed by much vehicular traffic for decades.  I'm not downplaying the wider risk but so far the scientific community there aren't overly worried.

Offline petermisc

External Link/Members Only

Anonymous takes down websites of Defense Ministry, RT and Kremlin
And by doing so, gives the Kremlin justification for taking down any Western websites it doesn't like.

Offline petermisc

Exactly. It's one of the reasons I didn't really believe Putin would invade as I thought the media were just drumming up hysterical headlines
Except, as it turns out, they weren't hysterical headlines, they were reporting what they were being fed by government sources.

I have to admit that I did wonder if they weren't making too much of the risk.  After all, Putin could afford to play the long game - how many prime ministers and US presidents has he seen flit through while he has been in power.  He could have left his troops there for as long as he wanted, until the Western media had gotten bored of reporting on it.  The Western governments and media would have looked stupid if nothing happened, accused of crying wolf, and disbelieved the next time they started making such warnings.  I could only conclude that those making these warnings were either playing straight into Putin's hand, or had solid intelligence that this was for real.

Putin got much cudos when he painlessly took over the Crimea, just as Hitler did when he annexed Austria.  Putin then annexed the ethnically Russian areas of Ukraine, much as Hitler annexed the Germanic part of Czechoslovakia.  But there the analogy falters, because Hitler waited awhile before invading the rest of Cz.  After his formal annexations of the Donbas regions, I was expecting Putin to similarly wait awhile before invading the rest of the Ukraine - perhaps when Trump returned to power.

The big question is, why now?  Apart from the obvious, that he waited until the Olympics were over, to avoid raining on Xi's parade. Is it time now to be watching China Daily?


Offline Thephoenix

 The ubiquitous and cringe worthy Alex Salmond has decided to suspend his show on RT.
He must have been shitting himself,  how to explain the invasion of a neighbouring country that simply wants independence.

Online scutty brown

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Russian news outlets now being censored

External Link/Members Only

Only allowed to report official sources - no independent news gathering allowed

Offline PatMacGroin

I tuned in for the first time in years, yesterday. 

It's always been a case of best watching them for news on us and vice versa.

The propaganda was off the fucking charts yesterday, however.

Russia singlehandedly won WW2!  :rolleyes:

They "think" they could take all of continental Europe in less than a week!  :lol:

France should've also been partitioned as "they complied with the nazis".

Didn't hear anyone mentioning that Russia and the U.S.S.R were practically fucking allied to the nazis for the first couple of years in the war. Ask the Poles.

As usual, it'll be left to us to clean up Europe's shite.

Less than a week does sound ridiculous.

But if Putin did decide to go for it, I'm wondering how long it would take. A military expert on Question Time this week provided some very disturbing facts, as a comparison of the difference in military power.

3 of the most powerful nations in Europe (France, UK and Germany) have approx 250 tanks each. Russia has nearly 13,000, that we know of! Most of them new or refurbished during Putins 20+ years in power.

I don't know much about military tactics, and I was never very good at history at school. But those do sound like overwhelming numbers against the whole of Europe, not just Ukraine. I'd imagine his forces would probably get bogged down capturing every city, but would they decide to sweep through and focus on taking out the capitals or major tactical positions?

(P.S. I'm finding it hard to believe he would go that far. But over the past couple of days his public speeches seem to be getting nuttier and nuttier. To paraphrase, he says he's rescuing Ukraines people from their nazi, drug addict leaders!)

Offline King Nuts

Unfortunately far-right thinking has been on the rise in many of the ex-Eastern bloc countries, partly as a backlash against the previous oppressive socialist ideology, partly due to loss of major industries, and due to levels of immigration.  Poland, Hungary, East Germany etc.



This four-year-old article from Reuters sheds more than a bit of light on the problem: External Link/Members Only

Right at the end of the piece, the author says:

There’s no easy way to eradicate the virulent far-right extremism that has been poisoning Ukrainian politics and public life, but without vigorous and immediate efforts to counteract it, it may soon endanger the state itself.





Offline jsparky

I read RT/BBC/France24/REUTERS/SCMP/GUARDIAN regularly to get a balanced view of the international news.

Give up on CNN for the 'BS' a long time ago.

FOX News - believe it or not, there are actually some good 'contents' on their websites.

Offline sir wanksalot

Except, as it turns out, they weren't hysterical headlines, they were reporting what they were being fed by government sources.

I have to admit that I did wonder if they weren't making too much of the risk.  After all, Putin could afford to play the long game - how many prime ministers and US presidents has he seen flit through while he has been in power.  He could have left his troops there for as long as he wanted, until the Western media had gotten bored of reporting on it.  The Western governments and media would have looked stupid if nothing happened, accused of crying wolf, and disbelieved the next time they started making such warnings.  I could only conclude that those making these warnings were either playing straight into Putin's hand, or had solid intelligence that this was for real.

Putin got much cudos when he painlessly took over the Crimea, just as Hitler did when he annexed Austria.  Putin then annexed the ethnically Russian areas of Ukraine, much as Hitler annexed the Germanic part of Czechoslovakia.  But there the analogy falters, because Hitler waited awhile before invading the rest of Cz.  After his formal annexations of the Donbas regions, I was expecting Putin to similarly wait awhile before invading the rest of the Ukraine - perhaps when Trump returned to power.

The big question is, why now?  Apart from the obvious, that he waited until the Olympics were over, to avoid raining on Xi's parade. Is it time now to be watching China Daily?

Think of it another way. Putin was planning on doing this for a long time. If it wasn't now then next year? Who knows? I wonder if Covid had anything to do with it e.g. western economies turned the financial taps to support the populace whilst Putin builds up a mighty war chest. This is a war he can afford to wager, politically, militarily and economically. He knows that NATO are not going to declare war against Russia over Ukraine.

I still can't shake the suspicion of Zelensky is not the most politically astute leader to be running a country which borders Russia. Some comments from Ukranian diplomats and politicians will have infuriated Putin such as the desire to join NATO and a veiled threat to re-arm with nuclear weapons.

It's almost as if Zelensky was goading Putin about NATO membership. Almost like the kid in school who has a motormouth and can't stop himself from goading the school yard bully because he is under the impression that his mates will back him up should anything happen.

I saw Zelensky's TV appearance yesterday where he said that Ukraine should be allowed to join the EU as a demonstration of support for the Ukraine nation. It struck me as being a little tone deaf and opportunistic.

Offline petermisc

Think of it another way. Putin was planning on doing this for a long time.This is a war he can afford to wager, politically, militarily and economically. He knows that NATO are not going to declare war against Russia over Ukraine.
 Some comments from Ukranian diplomats and politicians will have infuriated Putin such as the desire to join NATO and a veiled threat to re-arm with nuclear weapons.
It's almost as if Zelensky was goading Putin about NATO membership.
As you say, there is no way that NATO can go to the defense of a non-member country, and Putin knows that.  The other ex-Eastern bloc countries who have requested to join NATO must be feeling very exposed just now.  Something that might make him sit up and take notice is if NATO were to offer to expedite membership for these countries in light of his actions in Ukraine.  That is likely to have far greater impact on him than sanctions.

Offline petermisc

I read RT/BBC/France24/REUTERS/SCMP/GUARDIAN regularly to get a balanced view of the international news.
I think the critical thing as you say is to READ the news, ideally from a variety of sources.  TV news rarely has time to give more than a very superficial view, and there is very little current affairs coverage left.  Radio 4 does better, if you can catch the right programmes, but still has limitations.

I caught part of that R4 programme where the public can phone in their reactions, and I found the naivety of most of them quite depressing:
"send in our troops"
"let Putin do what he wants, anything to avoid killing"
"we should have been trading far more with Russia, not excluding them"
"sanction BP for trading with Russia"
and so on.

Offline Markus


Germany is going to go above the 2% of GDP spend for defence spending in response to the situation in Ukraine.  Donald Trump spent so much time during the first few months in office trying to convince European nations to increase their spending.   Of course a lot of the benefit would be to American defence contractors such as Lockheed Martin but he definitely wasn’t wrong on this front.

Offline golden bull

Here’s to the first step towards a European army 🥵.

Someone’s been watching Star Wars and taken notes on Palpatine’s tactics and Yoda and crew are non the wiser.

What’s the logistics of inviting Russia to join the EU? On condition that Putin is ousted 😆

Offline chrishornx


Offline PumpDump

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I too enjoy watching RT to get a different perspective, even though I know much of it is propaganda.

Enjoy it while you can as Ofcom have opened 15 investigations as an excuse to shut it down

External Link/Members Only
Banned reason: Habitual troll type posts after assuring that sort of thing would stop.
Banned by: daviemac

Online hawai5o

Germany is going to go above the 2% of GDP spend for defence spending in response to the situation in Ukraine.  Donald Trump spent so much time during the first few months in office trying to convince European nations to increase their spending.   Of course a lot of the benefit would be to American defence contractors such as Lockheed Martin but he definitely wasn’t wrong on this front.

Here it is External Link/Members Only
Among defense stocks in midday trading, Lockheed shares ran up 6.7% to 433.80 on the stock market today. Northrop jumped 7.9% to 442.14 and General Dynamics added 2,8%. Raytheon rallied 4.7%. Northrop, General Dynamics and Raytheon all nailed record highs. U.K.'s BAE Systems was up 8.7%, reaching an all-time best as well

No Doom &Gloom  .

« Last Edit: March 01, 2022, 12:01:10 am by hawai5o »

Offline petermisc

well done EU banning RT
Except that gives the Kremlin the excuse to ban EU news channels in Russia.

The RT audience in the UK is miniscule, having lost significant numbers of viewers to Al Jazeera.  Better to allow them to keep broadcasting, with well-publicised rebukes, than to ban them.  As the saying goes, the test of free speech is allowing others to say things you find offensive.

Surprisingly, RT has more significant viewing figures in the US, where in some places it is apparently the most watched foreign TV channel.  I didn't realise William Shatner has his own programme on RT.  To boldly go.....

Offline chrishornx

Except that gives the Kremlin the excuse to ban EU news channels in Russia.

The RT audience in the UK is miniscule, having lost significant numbers of viewers to Al Jazeera.  Better to allow them to keep broadcasting, with well-publicised rebukes, than to ban them.  As the saying goes, the test of free speech is allowing others to say things you find offensive.

Surprisingly, RT has more significant viewing figures in the US, where in some places it is apparently the most watched foreign TV channel.  I didn't realise William Shatner has his own programme on RT.  To boldly go.....

do you really think they need an excuse, really?
 Do you really think they wouldn't unilaterally ban the EU channels if it was undermining Putin?

 if we don't ban RT do you really think would stop Putin if he wanted EU channels off Russian screens - if he wants them banning he doesn't need an excuse

Offline PumpDump

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I am really against censorship. Do the government think we are children who cannot make our own decisions? RT's reporting on the war was so obviously biased and full of propaganda but it is interesting to be able to watch it. BBC/Sky News are so full of anti-Russia propaganda. I like watching both sides and working out for myself what the real truth is. As my momma said, there are two sides to every story.
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Offline lostandfound

I am really against censorship. Do the government think we are children who cannot make our own decisions? RT's reporting on the war was so obviously biased and full of propaganda but it is interesting to be able to watch it. BBC/Sky News are so full of anti-Russia propaganda. I like watching both sides and working out for myself what the real truth is. As my momma said, there are two sides to every story.

But there are morons who give credence to the shit they pump out. Hard to believe such stupidity exists I know, but those who rail against the covid vaccines are evidence that there really are people that stupid.  :wacko:

In any case the decision will be made by Ofcom.

Offline PumpDump

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But there are morons who give credence to the shit they pump out. Hard to believe such stupidity exists I know, but those who rail against the covid vaccines are evidence that there really are people that stupid.  :wacko:

In any case the decision will be made by Ofcom.

So what. This is supposed to be a free nation. If someone wants to believe Putin is the good guy that is their choice. Who are we or the government to tell them what to think.
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Offline lostandfound

So what. This is supposed to be a free nation. If someone wants to believe Putin is the good guy that is their choice. Who are we or the government to tell them what to think.

In any case the decision will be made by Ofcom.


Online scutty brown

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So what. This is supposed to be a free nation. If someone wants to believe Putin is the good guy that is their choice. Who are we or the government to tell them what to think.

The crap pushed out by RT, Sputnik, Pravda and others make up one prong of Putin's hybrid warfare concept.
The lies are all about  destabilisation prior to military action: creating a false narrative in which truth becomes irrelevant and facts become variables.
Please no blather about "free speech" or "this is supposed to be a free nation." This destabilisation is all about poisoning the dialogue and making free speech irrelevant. It's about disguising the truth and brainwashing the populace prior to the guns firing.
The Russian media services are part of Putin's system of oppression. They exist to serve the military goal and should be treated as such. They should be banned, closed, jammed and any UK based contributors or journalists treated as foreign agents.
To protect free speech sometimes you have to silence those who oppose it.

Online sparkus

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The crap pushed out by RT, Sputnik, Pravda and others make up one prong of Putin's hybrid warfare concept.
The lies are all about  destabilisation prior to military action: creating a false narrative in which truth becomes irrelevant and facts become variables.
Please no blather about "free speech" or "this is supposed to be a free nation." This destabilisation is all about poisoning the dialogue and making free speech irrelevant. It's about disguising the truth and brainwashing the populace prior to the guns firing.
The Russian media services are part of Putin's system of oppression. They exist to serve the military goal and should be treated as such. They should be banned, closed, jammed and any UK based contributors or journalists treated as foreign agents.
To protect free speech sometimes you have to silence those who oppose it.

100%, this.

Offline houseboot

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What does Chinese TV report?

The western version, i.e. invasion, or the Russian version, i.e. military intervention?

Online scutty brown

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What does Chinese TV report?

The western version, i.e. invasion, or the Russian version, i.e. military intervention?

The Chinese version, which will vary by the day based on changing political expediency
But whatever they show, there will be no reference to the civilian population resisting or fighting

Offline asianguy251

The crap pushed out by RT, Sputnik, Pravda and others make up one prong of Putin's hybrid warfare concept.
The lies are all about  destabilisation prior to military action: creating a false narrative in which truth becomes irrelevant and facts become variables.
Please no blather about "free speech" or "this is supposed to be a free nation." This destabilisation is all about poisoning the dialogue and making free speech irrelevant. It's about disguising the truth and brainwashing the populace prior to the guns firing.
The Russian media services are part of Putin's system of oppression. They exist to serve the military goal and should be treated as such. They should be banned, closed, jammed and any UK based contributors or journalists treated as foreign agents.
To protect free speech sometimes you have to silence those who oppose it.

That's like saying the MSM reports the news accurately.   BBC, Sky News, CNN are all propaganda tools too.

Online scutty brown

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That's like saying the MSM reports the news accurately.   BBC, Sky News, CNN are all propaganda tools too.

Claims like that are total bollocks. The very fact you define those organisations with a pseudopolitical cultist term such as "MSM" is enough to tell me that you wouldn't recognise reality if it smacked you in the face with a dead cat.
The very use of that phrase indicates that your perception of truth is distorted: you're following the very mental path Putin's deconstructionist cold war warriors want you to believe in.








Offline PumpDump

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Claims like that are total bollocks. The very fact you define those organisations with a pseudopolitical cultist term such as "MSM" is enough to tell me that you wouldn't recognise reality if it smacked you in the face with a dead cat.
The very use of that phrase indicates that your perception of truth is distorted: you're following the very mental path Putin's deconstructionist cold war warriors want you to believe in.

Did you swallow the whole story about Saddam's weapons of mass destruction then which was pushed by BBC/Sky.
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Online sparkus

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Claims like that are total bollocks. The very fact you define those organisations with a pseudopolitical cultist term such as "MSM" is enough to tell me that you wouldn't recognise reality if it smacked you in the face with a dead cat.
The very use of that phrase indicates that your perception of truth is distorted: you're following the very mental path Putin's deconstructionist cold war warriors want you to believe in.

Again, this 100%

As I recall, a very valued and trusted member of UKP ended up being banned as he went full on foil hat mode about vaccines and the new world order :dash: