Bulb to Octopus. Energy companies.

[standardpostage]

I have changed energy company "again".
Bulb energy to Octopus energy.
"Theoretically" it's less expensive !
Time will tell. They all promise to save you money, but I think that they all tell porkies.

[NelsonH]

Now you wait for an exaggerated final bill, that you won't really be able to challenge.

Or at least that's what happened when I switched away from NPower.

[filthy.john]

Now you wait for an exaggerated final bill, that you won't really be able to challenge.

Or at least that's what happened when I switched away from NPower.

Same...

Challenged mine 3 times... each time they revised down but it was clear to me they were plucking figures from thin air - I had so-called final meter readings that were changed constantly despite me documenting ad photographing the readings daily up to, on and after changeover date because I'd experienced exactly this many years earlier when I last changed.

I still believe I ended up paying for energy twice - ie - some to the old company for a period when I'm liable to the new company. I gave up in the end, it wasnt worth the aggravation of 40 minutes+ on hold on the telephone. The only reason I bothered to begin with was having time on my hands with working from home.

[Horseman]

Same...

Challenged mine 3 times... each time they revised down but it was clear to me they were plucking figures from thin air - I had so-called final meter readings that were changed constantly despite me documenting ad photographing the readings daily up to, on and after changeover date because I'd experienced exactly this many years earlier when I last changed.

I still believe I ended up paying for energy twice - ie - some to the old company for a period when I'm liable to the new company. I gave up in the end, it wasnt worth the aggravation of 40 minutes+ on hold on the telephone. The only reason I bothered to begin with was having time on my hands with working from home.

Its the easiest thing in the world to check.

On your final bill it will tell you what meter reading you were billed to.

On your 1st bill with the new company it will tell you what meter reading you have been billed from.

Its extremely unlikely that you paid for the same energy twice as these things go through 3rd parties to confirm final reads. Basically your new company tells the old company what they bill you to (not quite as straight forward as that but more or less)

Switching can be a pain but contrary to popular belief its normally your new provider causing the issue and not your old one.

As to the question of whether you new company will be cheaper - The easiest way is to just check the unit rates. Ignore all the "we can save you £100 a year" bollocks and just look at the prices. If one is 20p for a unit of electricity and the other is 25p its obvious which will be cheaper (don't forget to look at standing charge too but that won't usually make such a big difference)

And what ever you do, don't fall into the trap of my bills gone up/down and take that at face value. The real question is did you use more/less?

You'd be surprised the number of people who switch just before winter then are shocked because they think the bill has gone up or in your instance switch just before Summer and think they're quids in because the bill has gone down.

And if you have any questions on it feel free to ask - I'm not an "expert" but have worked within the energy industry for quite some years. I do know how it works.

The final solution to any annoyance I will share though. Ask them what their complaints procedure is and then follow it. The final step will be to go to Ofgem. Most companies will move heaven and earth to stop that as it will cost them a lot of money even if they're in the right. You won't get whatever you ask for, but unless you're being totally unreasonable they'll probably bend a fair bit.

[AciQ541.45]

I have changed energy company "again".
Bulb energy to Octopus energy.
"Theoretically" it's less expensive !
Time will tell. They all promise to save you money, but I think that they all tell porkies.

Yep, that's it exactly.  (A definition of marketing is lieing.)

[Dickled]

I have changed energy company "again".
Bulb energy to Octopus energy.
"Theoretically" it's less expensive !
Time will tell. They all promise to save you money, but I think that they all tell porkies.

I'm with Octopus too, since last autumn.
When I was considering changing energy suppliers I came across this forum...
External Link/Members Only
When I mentioned I was thinking about moving to Octopus, another member got in touch, and said if I switched using his Octopus referral link (all new members are allocated one, he/she would send me £30 Amazon vouchers, as well as the £50 account bonus we would both receive.
He was as good as his word, and as well as the Amazon vouchers, it was good having a £50 credit to start off my Octopus account.
Aside from this, if and when I change energy accounts again, I'm hoping the link above will appraise me of any decent tariffs out there. That said I also use this energy account checker website as well, which is part of the same group.
External Link/Members Only

[AciQ541.45]

And if you have any questions on it feel free to ask - I'm not an "expert" but have worked within the energy industry for quite some years. I do know how it works.

I change supplier regularly.
Why is it that when I submit readings to new suppliers, in response to thier demand to do so, that (mostly) they then do not use the readings? 

[AciQ541.45]

I'm with Octopus too, since last autumn.
When I was considering changing energy suppliers I came across this forum...
External Link/Members Only
When I mentioned I was thinking about moving to Octopus, another member got in touch, and said if I switched using his Octopus referral link (all new members are allocated one, he/she would send me £30 Axxxxxx vouchers, as well as the £50 account bonus we would both receive.
He was as good as his word, and as well as the Axxxxxx vouchers, it was good having a £50 credit to start off my Octopus account.
Aside from this, if and when I change energy accounts again, I'm hoping the link above will appraise me of any decent tariffs out there. That said I also use this energy account checker website as well, which is part of the same group.
External Link/Members Only

Bloody good idea.

[Horseman]

I change supplier regularly.
Why is it that when I submit readings to new suppliers, in response to thier demand to do so, that (mostly) they then do not use the readings?

Because the way it works is this.....

The new supplier will pass those reads onto a 3rd party. It is actually this 3rd party (along with another 3rd party acting on behalf of the old supplier) that will determine what your opening reads with your new supplier are (and thus closing reads with old supplier)

So long as both parties agree based on what information they have then thats it. If you don't agree with the numbers given then they can challenge the result.

If you have smart meters then they would pretty much use the read taken on the morning of the switch and theres little to dispute with that. If you dont have smart meters then there will be variables. If you give regular (monthly) meter reads then it'll be pretty accurate. If you don't it could be wildly off. Especially if you've been getting billed to estimates for ages. A photo of the reads on the morning of the switch followed by another approximetely 2 weeks later would also provide pretty much unchallengeable proof.

Now this all seems rather complex, it is however designed so that you do not get charged twice for the same energy. As such the providers (both new and old) DO NOT determine what reads to bill you too/from. They are told by a 3rd party who basically reports directly to the regulator. They can however challenge it.

The main point to take away from this (because most people do not understand this)

If you challenge your final bill with your old provider because you think its too much and win then yes they will lower the amount you owe by billing you to a lower read. HOWEVER this then means that your new provider will increase your first bill by also rebilling to this new lower read.

So you may save £100 on your final bill with company X but you'll then owe that many units of energy to your new provider. Assuming you've switched because the new provider is cheaper you'll probably save a few quid, but honestly unless its so far out of whack as to be ridiculous then its probably not worth your time chasing it.

[AciQ541.45]

Because the way it works is this.....

Thank you. 

Even where I supply photographs of the meter, including time and dates and meter numbers, they often do not use rhe read.

The one thing I will now do as a result of your comment is supply photographic read two weeks after the change in addition to my monthly reads and photographic read on date of change.

Query, why a read on the morning of the date of change and not some other time during the 24 period?

[standardpostage]

Good information, thanks for comments / input 

[Squire Haggard]

I've just done a search on uswitch, and I could save about £3.61 a month if I switched. Despite being north of the border, I cant really be bothered. 

I've still to try this one though, which was featured on Dragons Den. Anyone use it?

External Link/Members Only

[AciQ541.45]

I've just done a search on uswitch, and I could save about £3.61 a month if I switched. Despite being north of the border, I cant really be bothered. 

I've still to try this one though, which was featured on Dragons Den. Anyone use it?

External Link/Members Only

Is that based on a uswitch quote for monthly payments or analysis of the standing and unit charges being applied to one year of actual useage?

[Horseman]

Is that based on a uswitch quote for monthly payments or analysis of the standing and unit charges being applied to one year of actual useage?

When you get quotes like that its entirely based on the information that you provide.

If you can provide your actual yearly usage then it'll be accurate (unless your usage dramaticaly changes)

If all you do is fill out the "how many rooms, insulation type" etc. survey then it could vary quite a lot as all they do is assume you have an "average Usage"

Honestly I'll say this now - forget comparisons. Check unit rates against each other (and factor in standing charge but really its the cost per unit that will impact your bill)

And what ever you do. Don't be the man I spoke to a few weeks ago who was ranting that his bills were higher than last year because we've hiked his prices up and its DISGUSTING! He really didn't understand that he was on a 2 year fixed tariff and what he was paying now for his electric is exactly the same per unit as it has been for the past 18 months......he really couldn't get his head around the fact that if his bills gone up it means he's using more.

[Horseman]

Thank you. 

Even where I supply photographs of the meter, including time and dates and meter numbers, they often do not use rhe read.

The one thing I will now do as a result of your comment is supply photographic read two weeks after the change in addition to my monthly reads and photographic read on date of change.

Query, why a read on the morning of the date of change and not some other time during the 24 period?

It doesn't need to really be a read on the date to be fair - 5 days either way is perfectly acceptable. Also energy companies have to allow a margin of error, they cant object if its within a certain tolerance level. Basically its not really an exact science.

The two weeks apart is only useful if they are going to object to the meter reading they've been told to use (which they can do on your say so) those two weeks will allow them to estimate your usage and challenge any result that seems way wrong.

To be totally transparent, even with good companies and intelligent staff there's still a lot that can bork things up. The key is being with a company who are willing to talk to you and actually investigate further and not just do the "Computer says no" routine. In that regard IMO you've picked smart with Octopus, they rank as one of if not the best in so far as customer service goes. And before anyone says it - no I don't work for them, but from within the industry if I have to deal with another energy provider for what ever reason, they're always a lot easier to handle than anyone else. And from people I know who've been with them as customers they seem to deliver the service.

[Squire Haggard]

Is that based on a uswitch quote for monthly payments or analysis of the standing and unit charges being applied to one year of actual useage?

I entered my monthly payment amount and my provider, SSE, plus their standard tariff, on the uswitch site. I gave night time usage as the national average of 42% but will need to check if my usage is the same %.  it gave an annual figure and showed what my monthly payments would be. There were several companies very close in price, with the cheapest being only £3.61 less.

It looks like SSE is a good company to be with.

[AciQ541.45]

Thanks Horseman.  I have just received an unexpected email from my supplier on this matter.  Basically, their attitude is very polite, but one where they have no respect whatsoever for the amount I actually used at the point they became my supplier (I did supply photos).  I really think it should be legislated that actual reads are the only option.  My supplier is So Energy.  Cheers again.  I will not let this stop me from changing every year!  I know a chap who changes every six months!

[Horseman]

Thanks Horseman.  I have just received an unexpected email from my supplier on this matter.  Basically, their attitude is very polite, but one where they have no respect whatsoever for the amount I actually used at the point they became my supplier (I did supply photos).  I really think it should be legislated that actual reads are the only option.  My supplier is So Energy.  Cheers again.  I will not let this stop me from changing every year!  I know a chap who changes every six months!

Regularly changing is the way to get the best prices!

[AciQ541.45]

I entered my monthly payment amount and my provider, SSE, plus their standard tariff, on the uswitch site. I gave night time usage as the national average of 42% but will need to check if my usage is the same %.  it gave an annual figure and showed what my monthly payments would be. There were several companies very close in price, with the cheapest being only £3.61 less.

It looks like SSE is a good company to be with.

That is what everyone i know does. It does not remotely give an accurate picture of what if anything you will save. 
Only actual useage and the unit and standing charges of each supplier will do this, although it is more time consuming. 

try that for say one potential supplier and see if it is close to the Uswitch estimate. 
(it is because comparison sites use several estimated figures for each quote that the reality is so often different from what the sites say to those seeking quotes.)

[AciQ541.45]

Regularly changing is the way to get the best prices!

+1 and lockdown has left me with the time to do it thoroughly. 

[Watts.E.Dunn]

We buy a Lot of power, found Outfox the market to be quite good overall..

Aviod Symbio like the Plauge!, their terriiblel having a real ding dong wioth em right now hopeless customer service:(

[lillythesavage]

We buy a Lot of power, found Outfox the market to be quite good overall..

Aviod Symbio like the Plauge!, their terriiblel having a real ding dong wioth em right now hopeless customer service:(

Avoid peoples energy too, having a ding dong with them, terrible.

It is all a con, Blair signed us up to, all this switching bollocks is just an excuse to charge you more if you do not bother, they are all at it, insurance, broadband, energy and anyone else that thinks they will get away with it.

The answer is make use of the Ombudsmen service, none of them actually read meters anymore, that costs money and does not please shareholders, so go by your previous use, if that changes, as mine has, it is a nightmare, solved by reading the meter, but they will not.

Be wary of smart meters, when you switch the other company may tell you they do not work on their system, after you have signed up of course.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

"The answer is make use of the Ombudsmen service, none of them actually read meters anymore, that costs money and does not please shareholders, so go by your previous use, if that changes, as mine has, it is a nightmare, solved by reading the meter, but they will not."

Well Outfox send me a mail on the last day of the month for two meter reads, takes a couple of mins inc reading them update it and all easily visable and accessable on their website!..

Agree with smart meters, bloody things, aviod if you can!..

[Horseman]

The problem with smart meters is that the government wanted them rushed out before the tech was really ready. Every company went their own way and we ended up in a situation where they weren't cross compatible. Some were OK with several companies but it was a nightmare, BG being the prime example they literally used a SM that zero other providers could connect to.

Then the government decided that this was a bit shambolic and not in the best interest of people in general so we're now onto the 2nd generation of smart meters which are designed to be usable by all providers. Sounds good, except for the ridiculous timeframe which was given before you were no longer allowed to install non generation 2 meters. And you probably guessed it, the tech proved less reliable and caused even more problems with meters breaking.

The good news is that if you do have a smart meter that a provider is not able to connect with then it just operates as the old traditional meter. So you'd just need to give meter reads every now and again.

But what ever you do, don't believe the bullshit that smart meters will save you money. They don't. Unless you want to be the sort of person to constantly monitor what you're using and constantly trying to cut your usage all the time. You can get the same result by just being sensible. ie not leaving your lights on all day etc.

[Straightsix]

There's a reason why it's not as simple as 'price per unit'. Then there's the legal ass fucking complexity of peak and off peak tariff.
Free energy was around years ago, good luck with presuming the human race gives a shit about saving you money.

[Horseman]

There's a reason why it's not as simple as 'price per unit'. Then there's the legal ass fucking complexity of peak and off peak tariff.
Free energy was around years ago, good luck with presuming the human race gives a shit about saving you money.

Peak and off peak prices is extremely rare now. That's only on economy 7 or 10 tariffs I believe. Not many people use it and you can always ask to go onto single rate tariff now.

And anytime I deal with a customer on one of those tariffs, some very quick calculations can work out if its better.

The simple question to ask yourself if you're on eco 7 or 10 is what energy do you use during your off peak times? Because more often than not the off peak charges are very low, but the other charge is extortionate. To the point of never being worth it these days. The times when your biggest usage (washing machine/tumble dryer) could happily be put on over night and save heaps of money is long gone. The sheer amount of things you're using during the day in the average home means you're probably better off on single tariff.

[lillythesavage]

The problem with smart meters is that the government wanted them rushed out before the tech was really ready. Every company went their own way and we ended up in a situation where they weren't cross compatible. Some were OK with several companies but it was a nightmare, BG being the prime example they literally used a SM that zero other providers could connect to.

Then the government decided that this was a bit shambolic and not in the best interest of people in general so we're now onto the 2nd generation of smart meters which are designed to be usable by all providers. Sounds good, except for the ridiculous timeframe which was given before you were no longer allowed to install non generation 2 meters. And you probably guessed it, the tech proved less reliable and caused even more problems with meters breaking.

The good news is that if you do have a smart meter that a provider is not able to connect with then it just operates as the old traditional meter. So you'd just need to give meter reads every now and again.

But what ever you do, don't believe the bullshit that smart meters will save you money. They don't. Unless you want to be the sort of person to constantly monitor what you're using and constantly trying to cut your usage all the time. You can get the same result by just being sensible. ie not leaving your lights on all day etc.

The problem is they never except your meter readings, even when you take pictures and send of the bloody thing, they go on average usage over a period of time, when that changes they do not.

The ombudsman service is there for this, sorted it in no time and told the company to use the readings they were given and give me compensation, clowns decided to say they found the mis readings and forgot the ombudsmen had informed me of their findings and instructions, to save 75 quid.

They are all just out for as much money as possible, competition my arse, price fixing more like.

[Horseman]

The problem is they never except your meter readings, even when you take pictures and send of the bloody thing, they go on average usage over a period of time, when that changes they do not.

The ombudsman service is there for this, sorted it in no time and told the company to use the readings they were given and give me compensation, clowns decided to say they found the mis readings and forgot the ombudsmen had informed me of their findings and instructions, to save 75 quid.

They are all just out for as much money as possible, competition my arse, price fixing more like.

That just sounds like a shitty company to be honest - unless the readings are way out of expectations they should never not except them. And if they are way out of line then they should be sending a meter reader around to confirm them, not just ignoring what you give them.

The ONLY reason any energy company should ever bill to average use over time (an esitmated read) is because ones not been provided.

I'm surprised that the comapny let it go as far as getting to Ofgem to be honest, costs them a lot of money when they get involved.

[lillythesavage]

That just sounds like a shitty company to be honest - unless the readings are way out of expectations they should never not except them. And if they are way out of line then they should be sending a meter reader around to confirm them, not just ignoring what you give them.

The ONLY reason any energy company should ever bill to average use over time (an esitmated read) is because ones not been provided.

I'm surprised that the comapny let it go as far as getting to Ofgem to be honest, costs them a lot of money when they get involved.

I gave them actual readings on change over, nothing said at all, first month I put actual readings online and it came up as readings too low, following month the same, so queried it, oh and they increased my monthly payment in that time, no joy getting answers from them so contacted the ombudsmen.

Seriously, I just saw as typing another expensive tv ad, that is totally false, I do not think they will be around long, the customer service is disgraceful, trying to ignore that I contacted the ombudsmen was pathetic, they obviously had no idea how it works or thought I did not.

The thing with all this switching, is headaches, the same monthly payments, no matter who you switch to, and no obvious money saved and no price competition that I can see, they are all trying to be the greenest, but that is bollocks, my power comes down the same cable from god knows where, not directly from that company.

Time to pick one and stay there, nothing to be gained by switching except maybe a cup of coffee a month, on paper, it does not seem to translate into cash.

[Horseman]

I gave them actual readings on change over, nothing said at all, first month I put actual readings online and it came up as readings too low, following month the same, so queried it, oh and they increased my monthly payment in that time, no joy getting answers from them so contacted the ombudsmen.

Seriously, I just saw as typing another expensive tv ad, that is totally false, I do not think they will be around long, the customer service is disgraceful, trying to ignore that I contacted the ombudsmen was pathetic, they obviously had no idea how it works or thought I did not.

The thing with all this switching, is headaches, the same monthly payments, no matter who you switch to, and no obvious money saved and no price competition that I can see, they are all trying to be the greenest, but that is bollocks, my power comes down the same cable from god knows where, not directly from that company.

Time to pick one and stay there, nothing to be gained by switching except maybe a cup of coffee a month, on paper, it does not seem to translate into cash.

Actually a lot of companies will only offer their best tariffs to new customers or as an incentive for customers who are leaving to stay (not all do this, many do) so there is a reason to switch.

You just need to look at unit rates to see who is cheaper, ignore quotes as they're quite often wildly inaccurate. Though part of that is customers telling the odd fib when they ask for one. You can only quote based on the information you have and if you don't have solid actual usage amounts to quote against then its literally a wild guess. Again, as I said, just look at unit rates.

As I've explained on a earlier post. The readings you gave them on switch over won't necessarily be the one they used to open your account. And that's through no fault of their own but is open to being challenged. The problem with a lot of the smaller companies is that they don't have the depth of experience to see when something is obviously not right and look into it properly. If they were told to open your account to a much higher reading (likely if they then said your ne reading was too low) that should have prompted them to contact you and advise your old supplier was claiming your reading was to low.

[Buttplug]

I thought I might change my energy provider from Red Bull to Lucozade.😆

[Straightsix]

You seem to be knowledgeable on this subject so tell me, are 'Bulb' any good or should I go elsewhere?

[WASA38]

You seem to be knowledgeable on this subject so tell me, are 'Bulb' any good or should I go elsewhere?

I've just quit Bulb in favour of Green. The service was fine but they've just hiked prices unacceptably.

[Straightsix]

👍

[Horseman]

You seem to be knowledgeable on this subject so tell me, are 'Bulb' any good or should I go elsewhere?

Bulb used to be really good. Their customer service was/is pretty decent.

They also used to be cheap as chips BUT they never offered a fixed rate. It was always variable which meant they could increase their prices with a months notice.

IMO it was a ploy to get as many customers onboard as possible and then (as they have now) hike those prices.

Fixed tariffs (1 or 2 years as standard) are always the way to go really.

[standardpostage]

I thought I might change my energy provider from Red Bull to Lucozade.😆

Monster is a good one also 

[standardpostage]

I've just quit Bulb in favour of Green. The service was fine but they've just hiked prices unacceptably.

Reason I decided to change. Two price hikes this year. First one reasonable. Second one 8.2 percent unreasonable 

[Gordon Bennett]

Prices are really high across the board now - seem to have shot up over last year. My very cheap fix is about to end and currently the cheapest option for me is to just go onto their standard variable rate - SVR always used to be the most expensive option but all the fixed rate deals are now more expensive.
I'm sure one of them will break cover and offer some sort of deal soon enough so it makes sense to just sit on SVR for a bit cos I can leave that at any time penalty free.

[Horseman]

Prices are really high across the board now - seem to have shot up over last year. My very cheap fix is about to end and currently the cheapest option for me is to just go onto their standard variable rate - SVR always used to be the most expensive option but all the fixed rate deals are now more expensive.
I'm sure one of them will break cover and offer some sort of deal soon enough so it makes sense to just sit on SVR for a bit cos I can leave that at any time penalty free.

Yeah - SVR won't stay the cheapest for long. There's a reason its normally the most expensive option and its not just so companies can lock you into a contract.

[anyfucker]

Regularly changing is the way to get the best prices!

there are automatic services that do this for you,  switchd.co.uk  is one

[Gordon Bennett]

Yeah but you're normally under contract with exit fees so it's not something you need to do every 5 mins, its mostly an annual or bi-annual event. My daughter signed up with an auto switching service called Switchcraft but they somehow missed her and she ended up having to do it herself. Let's face it, it's not hard to find best deals with likes of Uswitch anyway. One thing, you're allowed to leave your current provider penalty-free from 49 days before your contract ends.

[Dickled]

I came across these sites which are going to help me in deciding which energy providers to switch to.....

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only

I'm mulling over a change at the moment, and from the checks I've done Outfox the Market seem to offer the cheapest tariff for electricity.

It's variable not fixed, so I suppose there's always the worry they could put their prices up anytime, but sometimes you just  have to go with your instincts.

[sir wanksalot]

Once you find a company and tariff you like then try doing another search for it on a cashback site like Quidco. That way get the saving and hopefully some cashback too.

If you do try this then always use a different browser when you visit Quidco otherwise they may not track your cookies as a new visitor

[Dickled]

Once you find a company and tariff you like then try doing another search for it on a cashback site like Quidco. That way get the saving and hopefully some cashback too.

If you do try this then always use a different browser when you visit Quidco otherwise they may not track your cookies as a new visitor

Thanks mate, will do.
I do use Top Cashback, but it hadn't occurred to me to do it for change of energy supplier