London Street Sauna Raided Today

[Jerry1972]

Regular readers and particularly PM'ers know I planned a visit to LSS this week. Had an appointment cancel on me this afternoon in city centre so took a drive to London Street. At bottom of Broughton Street turned left to search for parking space and it was chock full of police vehicles. Drove along a little and saw more police. I parked at far end of London Street and wandered back along to see what was going on. Quick conversation with a couple of lads who came haring out as I walked past the steps down to the door indicated that police had stormed the premises earlier and questioned everyone, punters, girls, manager and searched place. Went back to car and tried to call them for a few times but line was engaged/off hook?

Anyone know if they were everywhere else too? Think they might be soon?

Almost year since the last big raids and it looks as if police are still determined to close the saunas down aye? New raids linked to the Commonwealth Games coming Chief Constable aye? You should remember Embras nae Glesgae. What other capital city in the world would put up with a second city dictating what its public policy should be? Never mind Inspiring Edinburgh its fucking Embarrassing Edinburgh aye?

[whiterussian]

sounds like bad news Jerry.  I suppose it only takes a punter/girl to be carrying a little bit of gear and the police will make out its a drugs factory.

Sad times for Edinburgh Punters 

[Marmalade]

sounds like bad news Jerry.  I suppose it only takes a punter/girl to be carrying a little bit of gear and the police will make out its a drugs factory.

I heard just the other day that Stephen House is a closet christianity freak - reminiscent of tony bliar - so probably thinks condoms are WMDs.

Quite horrific that this fuckwit has been roundly criticised for the plebian way he has ridden roughshod over common sense and yet nothing is done to stop him.

[sammy222]

I phoned then at 6 pm last night to make a booking for Friday evening which they took so must still be open.
I can see punters being questioned as witnesses if Police need to build up a case to shut these places, so not looking good- will see what i can find out on Friday if i still go in.

[auldie63]

FFS what will they do next? The same as Glasgow and shut down the straight saunas but leave the gay ones alone? The bastards in blue love sticking it to us but are afraid of being accused of gay bashing, or perhaps it is the places they use.

[BigSur]

chief constable house is actually gay and lives with a polis he brought up from london

[DavidBrown]

Yes yes that is true apparently police were very harsh ...they took the money from the ladies,condoms ,lubes etc ...they were hours checking the place down and questioning the girls,staff and customers.

Strange nothing in the newspaper yet...

[Graeme387]

Why on earth do the rozzers think that closing the "licensed brothels" in Edinburgh is good news for anyone?
It puts the women in more danger by making them work individually in flats or on the street.

I don't get it, Glasgow was fine before House & Co shut the bordellos down, now its all Romanians on AW or not much else.

I do hope they don't fuck Edinburgh up like they did in The Glesga!

Been a happy customer for a very long time at LSS.

[Marmalade]

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so I wonder what their evidence / alternative powers would turn out to be?

"Police found a lack of gay facilities... a clear case of discrimination your honour. So we decided to give it to them up the arse anyway."

[Jerry1972]

sounds like bad news Jerry.  I suppose it only takes a punter/girl to be carrying a little bit of gear and the police will make out its a drugs factory.

Sad times for Edinburgh Punters 

Very sad times. If they go after LSS then it is the end. They have few WGs that are for me nowadays but its the most appropriately and well run sauna in the city and always has been. Treat us punters and their girls with respect not like other saunas where owners like to deliberately tear strips of the girls and humiliate them infront of other girls and punters. Big shout out in support of London Street Sauna.

[Jerry1972]

I heard just the other day that Stephen House is a closet christianity freak - reminiscent of tony bliar - so probably thinks condoms are WMDs.

Quite horrific that this fuckwit has been roundly criticised for the plebian way he has ridden roughshod over common sense and yet nothing is done to stop him.

I'll second that. And now Margo McDonald has died there will be no public figure prepared to put the common sense point of view. Scot-Pep always seem to be on the backfoot with their representations. Seemingly leaderless and directionless even if their official patron on their site is the real life Belle De Jour or is she just Official Celebrity Mascot? Scot-Pep should have issued some comment on this by now. Soon the anti's will start turning out their carefully prepped press statements about harm reduction strategies and third sector partners committed to keeping people safe. Edinburgh City Fathers are you going to allow one person one Glaswegian one unelected Chief Constable one apparently unaccountable public figure to over-ride decades of democratic public policy. When the police set public policy we live in a police state. The police stop being servants and become the masters.

[Jerry1972]

chief constable house is actually gay and lives with a polis he brought up from london

So a hypocrite then aye?

[Jerry1972]

Yes yes that is true apparently police were very harsh ...they took the money from the ladies,condoms ,lubes etc ...they were hours checking the place down and questioning the girls,staff and customers.

Strange nothing in the newspaper yet...

Aye, had a few PMs on this since the post and confirms what you say. All money taken from WGs, searched personal bags clothes belongings. One PM says they took "hundreds and hundreds of condoms and lubes" from the sauna. No press release from House and his cronies about 'keeping people safe' by forcing them into a dark alley near Leith Links yet aye? No press release from ScotPep neither who CLAIM to represent WGs.

[Jerry1972]

Why on earth do the rozzers think that closing the "licensed brothels" in Edinburgh is good news for anyone?
It puts the women in more danger by making them work individually in flats or on the street.

I don't get it, Glasgow was fine before House & Co shut the bordellos down, now its all Romanians on AW or not much else.

I do hope they don't fuck Edinburgh up like they did in The Glesga!

Been a happy customer for a very long time at LSS.

They are preparing to go down the ultra feminist Scandanavian path. Funnilly enough tho Sweden still has its head in the sand Norway is to debate a reversal of their legislation as funnilly enough they discovered it aint working.

[Jerry1972]

I phoned then at 6 pm last night to make a booking for Friday evening which they took so must still be open.
I can see punters being questioned as witnesses if Police need to build up a case to shut these places, so not looking good- will see what i can find out on Friday if i still go in.

I called later as well. Think it was Gary on phone? He said all ok and he will tell me situation when go in.

The GOOD news in all this I found out Marie is still working at LSS and is on Saturday morning. So if there still open I will get there.

[squeezebox]

A side issue...

If Scotland becomes independant, will this make any difference to how brothels are treated?

Can't find anything on this site..  External Link/Members Only

[Hooples cat]

Let's all calm down a wee bit and think about this........

I'm still as worried as the next punter about the Edinburgh saunas, especially as they seem to be the only option for a decent, reliable punt.

But... to be fair to the polis, they were  being accountable in not really going after the saunas to close them while they were licenced by the elected council. The nasty undemocratic bit was to force the council to stop licensing them, which they succeeded in doing.

Saunas were, are and will be (if still open) brothels and running a brothel is illegal and has been for a long time. So, they couldn't enforce that law while they were licenced, hence the push to get that stopped.

Now, the question is; will they enforce it now, or in the near future?

Maybe I'm being optimistic but the resources needed to gain enough evidence may mean they won't. The stushie about their previous tactics and the obvious arguments against closing them may also have got through to them. They may use their discretion to define any owners' "immoral earnings" as coming from exploiting drug habits and using forced/trafficked girls, so that any sauna that's clear on these fronts will be tolerated.

It's not just baseless and self-interested optimism-my understanding from discussions with well informed sauna girls was that the police had agreed a deal with at least some of the remaining saunas, just as the licences expired, that the police would be voluntarily granted entry to check for drugs/trafficking etc. and that that's the kind of stuff they were really interested in.

So maybe that's why the recent LSS "raid" hasn't been in the papers and why they seem to be carrying on as usual. If the police were serious about closing down the saunas immediately, two or three months of throwing evidence gathering resources at a test case would probably be enough and we'd have seen arrests, press releases and blanket news coverage in the last few days.

Of course, on the other hand, if they tolerate "clean" Edinburgh saunas what's to stop them opening up again in Glasgow, so all the above may, in fact, turn out to be baseless optimism and I'm totally wrong.

But, on the evidence so far, it doesn't look like they're going all out for the saunas...at least for the moment.

[Marmalade]

Confiscated earnings doesn't sound like a voluntary arrangement

[JB1969]

Confiscated earnings doesn't sound like a voluntary arrangement

But can they just take these girls earnings?

[willie loman]

I personally am not in the slightest worried, don't believe that they took hundreds of condoms for a minute, every where else the girls are keeping a small personal supply in their locker, don't imagine London st are any different. As said previously, any attempt at prosecution would be time-consuming and unpopular, remember the local media make a fair bit of revenue advertising these places.

[JB1969]

the last article i read about all of this said that apparently before the review of the licensing laws they could just enter and search these premises without a warrant, since then they need a warrant to execute a search and a warrant will only be given if there is suspicion of any criminal offences being committed.  So what their reason would be to confiscate these girls money or remove the condoms and anything else they might want too is beyond me. 

[RandyRob69]

LSS is the best Sauna in Edinb by far and has been for years!

I've been going there for well over 10 years and have never seen or heard of any trafficked girls or, for that matter, anyone stoned (drink or drugs!).

I am reliably informed that they did take all the girls' money and condoms. They were also in there for yonks!

Cant understand where's the need! It's a great run sauna and works well for the girls and punters. If it aint broke dont try and fix it!

[Edinburgh punter]

Concerning stuff

[Reiver]

chief constable house is actually gay and lives with a polis he brought up from london

Seen on another forum (football one ) he has an injunction against the press about his private life .

[Jerry1972]

I personally am not in the slightest worried, don't believe that they took hundreds of condoms for a minute, every where else the girls are keeping a small personal supply in their locker, don't imagine London st are any different. As said previously, any attempt at prosecution would be time-consuming and unpopular, remember the local media make a fair bit of revenue advertising these places.

In times past maybe but looks as if most of the advertising has stopped. There were no adverts for a long time last year when I mulled visiting them again before Christmas I picked up the EN looking for the numbers and found zilch.
Had a EN yesterday and there was advert for only 3 saunas. Time consumption wont be a factor if there is sufficient evidence to prosecute thats how they earn their daily bread. Nothing to prosecute = no jobs for prosecutors. Might be reluctant if they are also punters tho cos then they would be in a catch22 aye?

All Ive seen on here and heard in the wind received in PMs and the two lads I pumped for info on street when they were let go makes same story. One of lads said they had seen boxes and boxes of condoms and lubes being taken and his mate said hundreds. Tho its hard to know if you were not there in the place I suppose and they might have been winding me up. The newspapers blanket silence is interesting. Press gagging order been issued?

[willie loman]

To get a prosecution you would need a wg to give evidence, a punter to give evidence, and a jury to reject the explanation of sauna management, that they merely provide rooms and linen, first of all you would also need the crown office to decide if it was in public interest to go ahead, you would then need to repeat this process for every other sauna, there is no public appetite for this, the council the media the Scottish govt are all against a reversal of policy. Court time is short as is money, I would almost put my life savings on the saunas remaining open. Raids, scare the amateurs those who are fiddling their dole etc, the toughies who run the saunas aren't going to roll over as easily. This happy clappy chief constable will retire eventually, its inconceivable that the appointments panel ever employs such a clown again.

[Jerry1972]

To get a prosecution you would need a wg to give evidence, a punter to give evidence, and a jury to reject the explanation of sauna management, that they merely provide rooms and linen, first of all you would also need the crown office to decide if it was in public interest to go ahead, you would then need to repeat this process for every other sauna, there is no public appetite for this, the council the media the Scottish govt are all against a reversal of policy. Court time is short as is money, I would almost put my life savings on the saunas remaining open. Raids, scare the amateurs those who are fiddling their dole etc, the toughies who run the saunas aren't going to roll over as easily. This happy clappy chief constable will retire eventually, its inconceivable that the appointments panel ever employs such a clown again.

I hope you are spot on for my own selfish punting reasons and everyone elses. But they have charged how many people 14 or 15 more? The prosecutors will have been involved in that and must have decided that there is enough evidence and in the public interest. Deals might be done but looks like hard ball to mine eye. Wouldnt pin my savings to the Scottish government they created the one police force and gave the role of top dog to Mr House knowing what he was like.

[willie loman]

Who has actually been charged?

[Bobnero]

Willie, that's what I thought about the saunas in Glasgow - enough said

[sammy222]

Everyone on here hopes Willie's right.......but I don't get the confiscating money bit, which I have also had confirmed, unless they are actively trying to get evidence. Don't think recent raid will be enough, but just a question of what happens next........Did they confiscate cash on raid at Blair St a few months ago?

[tojosmith]

Yes yes that is true apparently police were very harsh ...they took the money from the ladies,condoms ,lubes etc ...they were hours checking the place down and questioning the girls,staff and customers.

Strange nothing in the newspaper yet...

my info i got there was no customers in at the time of the raid. and they found nothing. and told them they can reopen. and went away. the rest you read is all bull. and i got this info from a good source.

[valdishere]

my info i got there was no customers in at the time of the raid. and they found nothing. and told them they can reopen. and went away. the rest you read is all bull. and i got this info from a good source.

Surely Not!

I was beginning to think Jerry1972 was the official sauna tour guide!

[Jerry1972]

my info i got there was no customers in at the time of the raid. and they found nothing. and told them they can reopen. and went away. the rest you read is all bull. and i got this info from a good source.

London Street with no punters aye? They don't have much girls for me now but Id wager a dollar on them having punters in all the time. Two lads said had just been let out when came up the steps as I passed. They didnt answer the phone for at least several hours when I tried in afternoon. The stories from us punters seem mostly to be same.

[Jerry1972]

Who has actually been charged?

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[Macianalt]

New Gentle Touch not open today; wonder if linked?

[willie loman]

Willie, that's what I thought about the saunas in Glasgow - enough said

In Glasgow the council was anti-sauna, here in Edinburgh the council and the media are pro -sauna. This is a middle class city, not a prudish working class town like Glasgow.

[willie loman]

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These are old stories, no reference to this weeks raid. I can assure people that London st often has no punters, it relies to a huge extent on tourist trade, regular sauna visitors know their pound gets them a lot more up at Blair st, or the New town.

[DavidBrown]

my info i got there was no customers in at the time of the raid. and they found nothing. and told them they can reopen. and went away. the rest you read is all bull. and i got this info from a good source.

Well i heard from girls...don't think they will make up stories....it was a proper raid not only a regular visit

[DavidBrown]

New town " owner " charged External Link/Members Only

Ivan Cameron, owner of the Newtown Sauna in Edinburgh, confirmed he had been charged with living off immoral earnings.

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Of these seven, five names are in the public domain: Ian Haig, 70; Ivan Cameron, 69; Guillermo Morey, 41; Kelly Potter, 29; and Jayne Donoghue. Ms Donoghue applied for the renewal of the New Gentle Touch sauna's licence in November.

Ian from scorpio and charlie got charged too....gossips goes around both brothers got their accounts frozen...

Guillermo thats William from new town....he got charged too ...he isn't anymore around new town neither...

Kathy from Bss probably got charged too thats why bss got "new management "

And i wont be surprised Gary or Michelle got charged too.....


So whoever says there wasn't any ppl charged should get a bit more info...

I suppose all the sauna license holders got charged last year and the court case is still going on....

[JB1969]

What happened with the whole porn at the party palace thing, did either of those two get charged with immoral earnings?

[Marmalade]

New town " owner " charged  etc etc

Sorry mate, this is more old shite and not relevant to the current situation on the ground. Those charges take frickin ages, and generally don't stick. The sauna owners have not been very worried as long as they are not doing something illegal in a sense that has nowt to do with prostitution. The best info we have on London St, apart from going and asking them if you know well (dsorry, I can't be bothered) is from Laura Lee, prossie activist who is pretty reliable with her facts. And the main shit was money being confiscated from girls, as before. (At New Town they confiscated phones as well.)

[sammy222]

I am assured there were no punters in any rooms, unsuccessful raid, money taken from girls  along with all copy ID. That's it for now, what happens next, nobody knows.

[Mindful]

What are the police supposed to do?
A brothel full of ee girls.
They are only doing their job.

[myothernameis]

What happened with the whole porn at the party palace thing, did either of those two get charged with immoral earnings?

Don't think any of them were charged, they were just outed by the daily record, and as far as I know cherry pie is in Glasgow this week, £200 an hour, as for the party palace profile, it was last logged in on 23/04/14

[myothernameis]

money being confiscated from girls, as before. (At New Town they confiscated phones as well.)

Does anyone know, did the police go after the girls bank accounts, after all if the police confiscated money, why not bank accounts;

[RandyRob69]

If police wanted to make sure there were punters in rooms, they could easily have sent a guy in to sit in the lounge, observe and alert (as and when) or watch the comings and goings from outside - not rocket science!

What is also odd is that the money confiscated was not recorded to specific girls or receipts given - that's theft!

[Marmalade]

Does anyone know, did the police go after the girls bank accounts, after all if the police confiscated money, why not bank accounts;

Prossies mostly bank their money by rolling up the 50s in rubber bands and piling them up in the spare wardrobe. Leaving money in the bank with no intention of paying tax is asking for trouble.

What is also odd is that the money confiscated was not recorded to specific girls or receipts given - that's theft!

It's probably written in pencil on a loose page in their little black book. How many girls - EE at that - are going to walk into ta cop station (now mostly unmanned under the new regime) and say, "I'm a prostitute: please could I have my undeclared immoral earnings back please?"

[sammy222]

According to my lawyer pal, it will be held as evidence under the proceeds of crime act. So one day they will collate it all from this and future raids to get enough evidence to prosecute owner.

And yes the EE's won't have bank accounts over here, transfer cash by Western Union back home.

[Marmalade]

According to my lawyer pal, it will be held as evidence under the proceeds of crime act. So one day they will collate it all from this and future raids to get enough evidence to prosecute owner.

And yes the EE's won't have bank accounts over here, transfer cash by Western Union back home.

and am I right that after it has been "held in evidence" that a hefty proportion of it goes to top up the police force budget? Or is that only in England, I forget...

[f_angel]

I wonder if the money seized can be treated like fines, which people in the know tell me can be accounted for as part of the Savings made by having a single police force. That's why they're so keen on issuing fines for trivial traffic offences. Maybe seized cash works the same way.