Phil Spector dead at 81

[Squire Haggard]

He produced some memorable records. Its a pity about what he did later. 

''Music producer Phil Spector has died from COVID-19 related complications at the age of 81.

Spector was diagnosed with COVID four weeks ago and was transferred from his prison cell at California Health Care Facility, where he was serving a 19 years-to-life sentence for the 2003 murder of actress Lana Clarkson, to a hospital.

He recovered enough to return to jail but he relapsed and struggled with breathing and returned to a hospital where he died Saturday, as per TMZ.''


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[lostandfound]

The latter part of his life was sad and tragic. That old saying that genius and madness are not far from each other.

[mr.bluesky]

For all that he achieved it's hard to feel sorry for a convicted murderer 

[Paris69]

His unique 'wall of sound' was awesome... Shame he was a dangerous, abusive nut case

[george r]

fucking terrible wigs  he used to wear 

[NIK]

His unique 'wall of sound' was awesome... Shame he was a dangerous, abusive nut case

Yes, wonderful music, but he was always a weird fucker.
A Lennon 1975 interview made that clear. John seemed to find Spector’s eccentric behaviour when they were trying to make the Rock n Roll album amusing in retrospect, but I don’t believe he felt like that a couple of years earlier!

[catweazle]

I once met his brother, Crispin.
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He worked in quality control at Walker's.

[mr.bluesky]

I once met his brother, Crispin.
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He worked in quality control at Walker's.

  

[Yankee21]

Music takes second to being a convicted murderer. Especially when the music isn't that good anyhow

Fuck him.

[King Nuts]

There was a terrific TV movie about PS a few years back. Al Pacino played the role. Excellent, as ever.

I think you can get 'Phil Spector' on Amazon Prime or maybe Netflix.

[lamboman]

fucking terrible wigs  he used to wear 

Some shockers.

[NIK]

Music takes second to being a convicted murderer. Especially when the music isn't that good anyhow

Fuck him.

I expect you’re a rap fan. 

[hungrypunt]

Cunt...couldnt handle his shit.

What he did makes him that. Simple.

Stringing/producing a few lyrics/tunes togetther doesnt make you anything better

[Yankee21]

I expect you’re a rap fan. 

i expect you have no taste.

[Charlie Chalk]

I once met his brother, Crispin.
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He worked in quality control at Walker's.

FFS!!! 

That's so bad it's almost worthy of a ban!

And Spector can rot in hell, evil twisted psycho. No amount of "talent" can compensate for that.

[mr.bluesky]

FFS!!! 

That's so bad it's almost worthy of a ban!

And Spector can rot in hell, evil twisted psycho. No amount of "talent" can compensate for that.

Comic genius .     When I first read it I thought he was serious until the penny dropped .

[NIK]

i expect you have no taste.

I don't care what anyone says, Spector made great pop music.

I started a thread on the art/artist recently which got pulled as the bigots jumped all over it.
So many people seem to have problems with separating the art from the artist. You don't have to like somebody to appreciate their art.

I think Bono is a self rightetous twat, but it doesn't prevent me liking the music.  I even like some of Bob Geldof's early stuff, but I could never stand the bloke who has always been a cunt of the highest order.
Wagner, who by all accounts was a lot of a cunt, created some of the most glorious music in history.
I even bought a Gary Glitter compilation a couple of years ago to fill the gap in my collection.  Judging by the prices they were asking on ebay, he still seems to be in demand. Must say I only actually like about half of it.

Problem is many people are too thick to separate the art fromn the artist.

What Spector did was absolutely heinous, and even before that he was apparently a right cunt.
However,  it won't stop me loving the Ronettes or the Crystals.

[NIK]

i expect you have no taste.

So you ARE a rap fan. Great 'taste'. 

[Yankee21]

I don't care what anyone says, Spector made great pop music.

I started a thread on the art/artist recently which got pulled as the bigots jumped all over it.
So many people seem to have problems with separating the art from the artist. You don't have to like somebody to appreciate their art.

I think Bono is a self rightetous twat, but it doesn't prevent me liking the music.  I even like some of Bob Geldof's early stuff, but I could never stand the bloke who has always been a cunt of the highest order.
Wagner, who by all accounts was a lot of a cunt, created some of the most glorious music in history.
I even bought a Gary Glitter compilation a couple of years ago to fill the gap in my collection.  Judging by the prices they were asking on ebay, he still seems to be in demand. Must say I only actually like about half of it.

Problem is many people are too thick to separate the art fromn the artist.

What Spector did was absolutely heinous, and even before that he was apparently a right cunt.
However,  it won't stop me loving the Ronettes or the Crystals.

It's not about being able or unable to separate art from artist.
You are looking at art from am very dispassionate view Nik. As if it's a standalone product.
To fully immerse yourself into a band or artist you buy into a scene/movement.

Gary Glitter - yep. Ok. Let's leave it there. 

[NIK]

It's not about being able or unable to separate art from artist.
You are looking at art from am very dispassionate view Nik. As if it's a standalone product.
To fully immerse yourself into a band or artist you buy into a scene/movement.

Gary Glitter - yep. Ok. Let's leave it there. 

Not necessarily. I like metal but have never been in a mosh pit in my life, and never had the desire to.
Similarly, I enjoy Wagner’s music, but couldn’t sit through the Ring Cycle in a opera house.

As for Gary Glitter I was about 14 when Rock n Roll his first hit came out, and the charts were my life at the time. I didn’t care for it then very much and my opinion hasn’t really changed. However, I do like a few of his songs and because he did what he did doesn’t mean I am just going to stop listening to everything he recorded.

Jimmy Savile is a different matter. I could never abide him in the first place. He never had any talent, so I welcome the fact that he has disappeared from our culture. But then I feel exactly the same about Terry bloody Wogan who is still revered by the BBC.
 

[Jonestown]

To fully immerse yourself into a band or artist you buy into a scene/movement.

Most people don't need to do either once they grow up.

[Yankee21]

Most people don't need to do either once they grow up.

Agree to a certain extent. Of course you don't need to dress like mod/rocker/metaller etc but don't you find yourself investigating the scene that a musician you like emerges from? Maybe finding other stuff to listen to and check out?

[NIK]

Agree to a certain extent. Of course you don't need to dress like mod/rocker/metaller etc but don't you find yourself investigating the scene that a musician you like emerges from? Maybe finding other stuff to listen to and check out?

Also you can be interested and even fascinated by something without necessarily liking it or even approving of it. For example, the ongoing interest in Hitler / Nazi Germany. I am sure the many historians who write about it and most of the millions who read about it or watch documentaries don't approve of it. (Although a tiny minority will.)

Regarding the pop culture, on a personal level I was always fascinated by the hippie / flower power era.
I think this was because I was about 9/10/11 years old at the time, so although far too young to be part of it I was old enough to be vaguely aware of it. I also vividly remember my dad loudly disapproving. Consequently, by the 70's when I was in my teens I grew my hair. Partly to rebel against my dad, who being bald hated long hair, but also because everyone else did at the time.  Although, like probably 90% of my classmates and most young men at the time, I adopted the fashion for long hair, I doubt, had I been old enough 6/7 years earlier, I would have actually become a full blown hippie with the flowers, beads, kaftans, etc.
Same with punk. I was actually 18 at the height of punk, exactly the right age. I was interested in it, it was difficult not to be at the time if you liked pop music, however I hadn't the remotest desire to become a punk.

[winkywanky]

I once met his brother, Crispin.
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He worked in quality control at Walker's.

    

[winkywanky]

Whatever else happened late in his life, Spector was an absolute sonic genius, a groundbreaker and a true legend. What he did is right up there with all the other greats. Songwriter, Producer, Musical Genius.

Yes, he was nutty. he was always nutty, and it was always liable to end badly, especially when he was no longer really involved in music, his great love. He murdered his gf, and from what I can make out, he mistreated her very badly, same as he did with all the other women in his life. He was a control freak, and ultimately an insecure, pathetic man in his personal life.

But like a lot of similar stuff that's happened over the last year, the snowflake brigade will piss all over his memory, and try to erase all the amazing things he did. I think that's very sad, for music. Yes, he murdered his gf, and that's tragic, of course it is. But he will forever and rightly be remembered for being hugely influential in the development of popular music. The murder is a sad footnote to a very brilliant but troubled life.

I was (almost) amused to see the BBC wringing its hands over this very issue, not knowing quite how to present this, and what to put in the headline on their News App. They ended up calling him a murderer, who just happened to have been a music producer  . How long are they going to keep coming up with this crap, is it a phase they're going through or what?

[King Nuts]

But like a lot of similar stuff that's happened over the last year, the snowflake brigade will piss all over his memory,

They have plenty of form when it comes to re-writing history. But fuck 'em. The music lives on.

[winkywanky]

Watch out KN, walls have ears   

[King Nuts]

Regarding the pop culture, on a personal level I was always fascinated by the hippie / flower power era.
I think this was because I was about 9/10/11 years old at the time, so although far too young to be part of it I was old enough to be vaguely aware of it. I also vividly remember my dad loudly disapproving. Consequently, by the 70's when I was in my teens I grew my hair. Partly to rebel against my dad, who being bald hated long hair, but also because everyone else did at the time.  Although, like probably 90% of my classmates and most young men at the time, I adopted the fashion for long hair, I doubt, had I been old enough 6/7 years earlier, I would have actually become a full blown hippie with the flowers, beads, kaftans, etc.
Same with punk. I was actually 18 at the height of punk, exactly the right age. I was interested in it, it was difficult not to be at the time if you liked pop music, however I hadn't the remotest desire to become a punk.

Being of a similar age, I sat through the hippy era, not quite knowing what it was all about, but wanted long hair though I went to a school that was strict about such things. My dad was bald too, and just didn't get it.

The headmaster at my school (classic, old-style, redbrick, provincial Grammar) was a total cunt. He'd send kids home for having long hair or wearing the wrong coloured socks. You do it a second time and he'd cane you. I'm not kidding. We should've said to him 'Hey, dude, this is the 60s. Mellow out' but we didn't think to say such a thing, and nor would we have dared.

I was around 18 or 19 when punk first made an impact. Couldn't get enough of it. Had left home by then, and enjoyed a brief few months of unrestricted long hair, but punk was very anti-hippy (odd, seeing as punk was mostly controlled and manipulated by ex hippies) so short hair was de rigeur. Not to mention the attitude. I liked punk. No real rules, and lots of girls dressing all tarty. What was not to like about that?

[King Nuts]

Also you can be interested and even fascinated by something without necessarily liking it or even approving of it.

Lots of artistes, writers, singers and so on, made great art or music or wrote great books and were later discovered to be cunts in their personal lives. Michael Jackson was one weird guy but who can deny his brilliance. Charles Dickens treated various women in his life really badly. Lennon wasn't the saint some think he was. Philip Larkin was, by today's standards, racist and appallingly sexist. There's hundreds of others. It ain't a short list.

So what do we do? Erase anyone who didn't conform to today's ideals and standards? We'd be left with, er, Jo Brand and those two twats from Peep Show.

[NIK]

Lots of artistes, writers, singers and so on, made great art or music or wrote great books and were later discovered to be cunts in their personal lives. Michael Jackson was one weird guy but who can deny his brilliance. Charles Dickens treated various women in his life really badly. Lennon wasn't the saint some think he was. Philip Larkin was, by today's standards, racist and appallingly sexist. There's hundreds of others. It ain't a short list.

So what do we do? Erase anyone who didn't conform to today's ideals and standards? We'd be left with, er, Jo Brand and those two twats from Peep Show.

[/color]

Brilliant post as usual KN.

Larkin and his mate Kingsley Amis are persona non gratis these days.
Even when I was at uni in the early 90's I recall a seminar where the lecturer ripped the piss out of a Kingsley Amis extract he had brought in for exactly that purpose.. They probably wouldn't even allow it to be brought into the classroom at all now.

[winkywanky]

Lots of artistes, writers, singers and so on, made great art or music or wrote great books and were later discovered to be cunts in their personal lives. Michael Jackson was one weird guy but who can deny his brilliance. Charles Dickens treated various women in his life really badly. Lennon wasn't the saint some think he was. Philip Larkin was, by today's standards, racist and appallingly sexist. There's hundreds of others. It ain't a short list.

So what do we do? Erase anyone who didn't conform to today's ideals and standards? We'd be left with, er, Jo Brand and those two twats from Peep Show.

I don't often quote the Bible (and in many ways I certainly don't adhere to its recommendations, although I would argue I follow the important ones  ) but one particular quote comes to mind: Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone (something like that, anyway).

All these (mainly young and idealistic) people who dismiss a lifetime's achievements of someone truly brilliant, purely because they fucked up in their private lives. And suddenly, everything they ever did is crap: it's hypocrisy, pure and simple. What they did wasn't crap, but perhaps they were bastards all along while they were being brilliant.

Well the news for them, is that despite the fact they might not ever murder someone, they will probably never, ever amount to anything in their lives, certainly not to the degree of doing something truly groundbreaking and wonderful for humanity.

Heroes are flawed. Sometimes badly. Try and find one who isn't.

[NIK]

I don't often quote the Bible (and in many ways I certainly don't adhere to its recommendations, although I would argue I follow the important ones  ) but one particular quote comes to mind: Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone (something like that, anyway).

All these (mainly young and idealistic) people who dismiss a lifetime's achievements of someone truly brilliant, purely because they fucked up in their private lives. And suddenly, everything they ever did is crap: it's hypocrisy, pure and simple. What they did wasn't crap, but perhaps they were bastards all along while they were being brilliant.

Well the news for them, is that despite the fact they might not ever murder someone, they will probably never, ever amount to anything in their lives, certainly not to the degree of doing something truly groundbreaking and wonderful for humanity.

Heroes are flawed. Sometimes badly. Try and find one who isn't.

Exactly. I very much doubt these ‘woke’ cunts who want to tear down statues and denigrate our history are perfect themselves.

[winkywanky]

Exactly. I very much doubt these ‘woke’ cunts who want to tear down statues and denigrate our history are perfect themselves.

Without being too specific, plenty of those endlessly mouthing off about racism are pretty quickly found to be little or no different.

They have high profile, well-known Twitter-followers who frequently 'Like' their right-on comments, but as soon as they themselves are found out, all those high profile followers suddenly become silent. Funny that. And there's been a few examples over the last year.

[Jonestown]

........... and those two twats from Peep Show.

The wife of one of those twats from the Peep Show, Victoria Coren Mitchell, did a series for the BBC about The Bohemians, she could barely contain her disgust for the likes of The Bloomsbury Set and the artists such as Augustus John for their wife swapping, partner sharing mistress taking and child fathering, but alas when it came to the matter of the notable sculptor and font designer Eric Gill, whose sexual proclivities are too extreme to mention even here, Victoria's disgust overcame her. To this day Gill's Stations of The Cross still adorn the walls of London's Westminster Cathedral

Oh, and the Italian painter Michelangelo Caravaggio was a murderer, and this work is in all the great galleries worldwide.

[Malvolio]

As ever, the passage of time will allow people to make a sensible assessment of an artist's worth.

For me, Spector's production was groundbreaking in the early sixties when mono was all that was available, but was overtaken by Brian Wilson around 1965, and by George Martin a year later.  You then had Jimmy Page's production with Led Zeppelin in 1968, which to me defines what rock music should sound like.

Spector went on to do big production jobs with The Beatles, George Harrison, Leonard Cohen and The Ramones - it all sounds too overblown to my ears.

[winkywanky]

The wife of one of those twats from the Peep Show, Victoria Coren Mitchell, did a series for the BBC about The Bohemians, she could barely contain her disgust for the likes of The Bloomsbury Set and the artists such as Augustus John for their wife swapping, partner sharing mistress taking and child fathering, but alas when it came to the matter of the notable sculptor and font designer Eric Gill, whose sexual proclivities are too extreme to mention even here, Victoria's disgust overcame her. To this day Gill's Stations of The Cross still adorn the walls of London's Westminster Cathedral

Oh, and the Italian painter Michelangelo Caravaggio was a murderer, and this work is in all the great galleries worldwide.

Let's not beat about the bush, Gill indulged in an incestuous relationship with his teenage daughter (she was underage too, although within the context of incest it hardly seems to matter).

One of Gill's finest works also appears on the front of the BBC's Broadcasting House in London, Prospero and his young son Ariel. This puts the BBC in a rather precarious position, and they've come in for a lot of flak over this. It is a beautiful sculpture, nevertheless, the young boy Ariel is naked with winkle proudly on display.

[Boristheboy]

Am I the only one who also thinks his music production was shit too? Listening to something like "River Deep, Mountain High", there is so much going on that you can't hear any of it. It would sound bigger and better if he had just shown some restraint. And seriously, putting that much reverb on the bass? Sonic mud pie.

[NIK]

Am I the only one who also thinks his music production was shit too? Listening to something like "River Deep, Mountain High", there is so much going on that you can't hear any of it. It would sound bigger and better if he had just shown some restraint. And seriously, putting that much reverb on the bass? Sonic mud pie.

I can hear where you're coming from and I feel that way about Meatloaf's music. Just can't listen to it. However I do like Spector's 60's stuff. Maybe the melodies are just better.
I know what you mean about restraint though. Springsteen's Born to Run is a classic which I like, but I have to be in the mood for it, as if I'm not it just sounds like Meatloaf.

I would also add that most of the 90's onwards female pop music is also usually overproduced to mask the fact thst most of them can't sing. Unfortunately, tuneless overproduced female pop is all BBC Radio 2 and BBC local radio seem to play these days.

[winkywanky]

Am I the only one who also thinks his music production was shit too? Listening to something like "River Deep, Mountain High", there is so much going on that you can't hear any of it. It would sound bigger and better if he had just shown some restraint. And seriously, putting that much reverb on the bass? Sonic mud pie.

You may not like his work. That's fine.

But what you must recognise is that the vast majority of people, both inside and outside of the music industry, regard him as a genius.

[Yankee21]

Am I the only one who also thinks his music production was shit too? Listening to something like "River Deep, Mountain High", there is so much going on that you can't hear any of it. It would sound bigger and better if he had just shown some restraint. And seriously, putting that much reverb on the bass? Sonic mud pie.

This.

He has thrown everything at it and hoped something decent materialises.

Classic case of 'less is more' should've been employed.

[Mr_Shins]

Many of my favourite 60s songs were his productions:

- Ronettes - Be My Baby (my favourite song of 1963)
- Righteous Brothers - You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling (compared to the Cilla Black version shows his production skills over those of George Martin)
- "Ike" & Tina Turner - River Deep Mountain High (Ike actually had no input on this)

He also inspired other artists to copy the "wall of sound" concept like the Walker Brothers and later Wizzard, although he didn't produce those artists.

Gary Glitter (mentioned in this topic) made a few great songs between 1972 and 1974 (but apart from Another Rock N Roll Christmas, pretty much everything he did after that was poor).

[The Film Director]

- Ronettes - Be My Baby (my favourite song of 1963)
- Righteous Brothers - You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling (compared to the Cilla Black version shows his production skills over those of George Martin)

Two total masterpieces, agreed.

[hungrypunt]

You may not like his work. That's fine.

But what you must recognise is that the vast majority of people, both inside and outside of the music industry, regard him as a genius.

Eye of the beholder and all that.
regardless how many insdie and outside, did nothing for me.
case of emperors new clothes maybe.

Tubular bells
Floyd (some were just dire but pot and good shags to the tunes makes em good)
Sinatra white xmas FFS woudlnt even get through an x factor audition these days


the list goes on, if they say its good, lots will believe it, same as religion. cults and sects...

[Jonestown]

Tubular bells
Floyd (some were just dire but pot and good shags to the tunes makes em good)
Sinatra white xmas FFS woudlnt even get through an x factor audition these days

White Christmas, that would have been Bing, not Frank, just so you know.
Have you heard Richard Clayderman's version - sublime, well worth hunting down.

[Liverpool]

White Christmas, that would have been Bing, not Frank, just so you know.
Have you heard Richard Clayderman's version - sublime, well worth hunting down.

Bing, as well as Frank.

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[paper7]

Watch out KN, walls have ears   

I know, I found one in my ice-cream!

[hungrypunt]

White Christmas, that would have been Bing, not Frank, just so you know.
Have you heard Richard Clayderman's version - sublime, well worth hunting down.

oh yeah, duh ! cheers

[winkywanky]

Eye of the beholder and all that.
regardless how many insdie and outside, did nothing for me.
case of emperors new clothes maybe.

Tubular bells
Floyd (some were just dire but pot and good shags to the tunes makes em good)
Sinatra white xmas FFS woudlnt even get through an x factor audition these days


the list goes on, if they say its good, lots will believe it, same as religion. cults and sects...

Do you always have that opinion on anything where the vast majority disagree with you, they must be in a cult or something?

Have you ever considered the cult may be yourself?

[Liverpool]

oh yeah, duh ! cheers

No, you were right as well. I've posted the link to Frank singing it.

[Dickled]

Eye of the beholder and all that.
regardless how many insdie and outside, did nothing for me.
case of emperors new clothes maybe.

Tubular bells
Floyd (some were just dire but pot and good shags to the tunes makes em good)
Sinatra white xmas FFS woudlnt even get through an x factor audition these days


the list goes on, if they say its good, lots will believe it, same as religion. cults and sects...

The way you phrase your opinions, as if they're some definitive statement of quality, are meaningless and irrelevant really, other than an indication that you may be a bit egocentric.
Perhaps equally meaningless and irrelevant, other than they're just my opinion, is my view that the Phil Spector Christmas Album is the best Christmas album ever made, and Be My Baby by the Ronettes is as wonderful to listen to as it was when it was first released.