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Author Topic: Are we part of some big experiment?  (Read 4187 times)

Tony Montana

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Every time I talk to student WGs about their studies, they all seem to be doing psychology.  I image punters and prossies are both quite interesting psychological subjects, but I wonder if I'm gong to become part of some thesis.

TheDoctor

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Noticed that too. I've also noticed they are all as thick as pig shit so I am not expecting anything particularly insightful in their field studies.

cockneybstrd

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Ha Ha Its so fucking true that or Business Studies.

I saw an alleged student/pro$$ie who claimed she was studying for her MSC in Psychology. She didnt have a fucking clue when i quizzed her. She was offended when I told her she should ask for her fees back.


SirFrank

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An ethnographic study of punting....

Offline PatrickCarnes

Psychology is a psuedo-science. It's for people who think they are learning some insight into the human mind and they will be helping people, when they usually have very little self awareness about themselves.

Offline maxxblue

Psychology is a psuedo-science. It's for people who think they are learning some insight into the human mind and they will be helping people, when they usually have very little self awareness about themselves.

Don't agree. Psychology can be very helpful to people experiencing problems with their mental health as a consequence of trauma, for instance. There is robust scientific evidence, such as numerous randomised controlled trials, demonstrating the positive outcomes of psychological interventions for people experiencing such problems. See NICE (External Link/Members Only) for examples.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 10:56:24 pm by maxxblue »

Aspen

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Don't agree.

I do. I know a psychologist and she has a chillingly similar attitude towards her clients as many WG's. After hearing some of her stories I'd never go to one. I have very little time for them.

Psychology can be very helpful to people experiencing problems with their mental health as a consequence of trauma, for instance.

Possibly. But I've learned the hard way that you have to take what life throws at you on the chin, and get over it as best you can or you just cave in. Most people are out for themselves, and don't give a toss about anyone else. That applies to psychologists just as much as it does to bankers, lawyers and estate agents.

Offline maxxblue

I do. I know a psychologist and she has a chillingly similar attitude towards her clients as many WG's. After hearing some of her stories I'd never go to one. I have very little time for them.

Possibly. But I've learned the hard way that you have to take what life throws at you on the chin, and get over it as best you can or you just cave in. Most people are out for themselves, and don't give a toss about anyone else. That applies to psychologists just as much as it does to bankers, lawyers and estate agents.

I know someone with ginger hair who was arrested for shoplifting. Therefore all people with ginger hair are shoplifters. I think not.

Your logic is flawed. A bit like saying that you have no time for GPs because of what Harold Shipman did.

If psychology was not an effective intervention, the government would not have invested millions of pounds (literally) in psychological therapies:

External Link/Members Only

Your experiences have clearly influenced your views (Most people are out for themselves, and don't give a toss about anyone else.), but this doesn't mean that they are true.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 11:21:58 pm by maxxblue »

Offline mcb

Not all of them. I saw a WG who was studying English literature.

Offline AnthG

Every time I talk to student WGs about their studies, they all seem to be doing psychology. 
I think its because they are lying and this is the only course they can think of that sounds good for them to say.

Psychology is a very difficult course to enter at degree level as its so competitive the places so you need As and Bs at A-Level to enter.

E.g even a poor uni like Reading you still need As and Bs to enter.

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Banned reason: To much drama, account closed
Banned by: Iloveoral

Tony Montana

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If psychology was not an effective intervention, the government would not have invested millions of pounds (literally) in psychological therapies:



The Government also invested millions in homeopathic treatments.  :wacko:

But I get what you say and I do believe that the study of psychology is the one weapon we have against psychos, abusers, criminally insane etc.

bobsuraunty

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And I know of one who thinks she's going to be a great counsellor for people with relationship and marriage issues in particular........ Needs counselling herself first in my humble opinion as mad as a box of frogs.

Offline wristjob

Every time I talk to student WGs about their studies, they all seem to be doing psychology.  I image punters and prossies are both quite interesting psychological subjects, but I wonder if I'm gong to become part of some thesis.

I think my niece does psychology at uni. You dirty bastard!!!!!

Offline wristjob


Possibly. But I've learned the hard way that you have to take what life throws at you on the chin, and get over it as best you can or you just cave in. Most people are out for themselves, and don't give a toss about anyone else. That applies to psychologists just as much as it does to bankers, lawyers and estate agents.

Yeah well, we live in a world nowadays where people are indulged in their whinyness.

Offline jackdaw

Psychology is a psuedo-science. It's for people who think they are learning some insight into the human mind and they will be helping people, when they usually have very little self awareness about themselves.

Not the case. Psychology is actually the study of normal behaviour in animals as well as man. Treating abnormal human behaviour is dealt with by psychiatry, or a small specialism in psychology called clinical psychology.

There's an enormous body of hard experimental data in psychology resulting from a lot of detailed animal work.

But admittedly...there's a lot of fakes calling themselves psychologists without taking appropriate degrees first.

Aspen

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I know someone with ginger hair who was arrested for shoplifting. Therefore all people with ginger hair are shoplifters. I think not.

Your logic is flawed. A bit like saying that you have no time for GPs because of what Harold Shipman did.

Both those analogies are ridiculous.

It is well known that so-called professions like bankers, lawyers and estate agents have a high proportion of people who are totally selfish and unconcerned about the welfare of their customers, despite much pretence otherwise. All I am saying is that I now treat some of these airy fairy so-called caring occupations with similar caution. And as a matter of fact I would even include some GP's in as well. My experience with them is not entirely good either, but by the same token I am not accusing any of them of being serial killers, or of having ginger hair - though some of them might have. They are getting very flaky these days though, with all these new trusts and businesses and so forth being introduced. Patients aren't the priority, balancing the books is (and making money - they are almost as overpaid as bankers, lawyers and prostitutes are).

If psychology was not an effective intervention, the government would not have invested millions of pounds (literally) in psychological therapies:

That's a flawed statement if ever there was one. So the government is very sensible is it? And doesn't make mistakes? I don't think so. Otherwise it wouldn't have wasted billions over many years on a very badly flawed NHS IT system, which has been one of the greatest drains (if not THE greatest) on public resources the UK has ever experienced. It's still not right and this has been going on for the best part of 15 years. You comparison simply reinforces the point I make about psychology.

External Link/Members Only

Your experiences have clearly influenced your views (Most people are out for themselves, and don't give a toss about anyone else.), but this doesn't mean that they are true.

Of course it doesn't MEAN it is true. But I wouldn't have said that if I didn't think it was. I haven't got rose tinted specs, and I would guess you live in a sheltered backwater if you can't recognise what I am describing.


Aspen

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Not the case. Psychology is actually the study of normal behaviour in animals as well as man. Treating abnormal human behaviour is dealt with by psychiatry, or a small specialism in psychology called clinical psychology.

There's an enormous body of hard experimental data in psychology resulting from a lot of detailed animal work.

But admittedly...there's a lot of fakes calling themselves psychologists without taking appropriate degrees first.

An element of truth there somewhere. Psychology is the subject, psychiatrists are practitioners. But they don't exactly cover themselves in glory when they still apply such treatments as ECT - electro convulsive therapy. Thank goodness lobotomy has gone out of fashion. It is a very dubious subject area that is somewhat subjective, and the motives of self appointed experts is something to beware of. A psychology degree doesn't make anyone an expert on the human mind. I don't think such an individual even exists.


Offline hockogrockle

Previous post is a bit of a rant. Can we get back to the subject, please. Speaking for myself, I've yet to come across one of these self-styled "psychology students" working in the sex industry.

Offline maxxblue

An element of truth there somewhere. Psychology is the subject, psychiatrists are practitioners. But they don't exactly cover themselves in glory when they still apply such treatments as ECT - electro convulsive therapy. Thank goodness lobotomy has gone out of fashion. It is a very dubious subject area that is somewhat subjective, and the motives of self appointed experts is something to beware of. A psychology degree doesn't make anyone an expert on the human mind. I don't think such an individual even exists.

Again, you are misinformed. Psychiatry and psychology are two distinct fields. If psychiatry is the subject, psychiatrists are the practitioners; likewise, psychologists (and others) use psychology in their clinical practice.

Aspen

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Again, you are misinformed. Psychiatry and psychology are two distinct fields. If psychiatry is the subject, psychiatrists are the practitioners; likewise, psychologists (and others) use psychology in their clinical practice.

I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to Jackdaw, who was the one who brought psychiatry into the mix.

I don't need you to tell me what the difference is, and I'm not interested it writing such detail on this forum. If you, or anyone else, is interested to learn the detail you can just google wiki psychology & psychiatry and stop trying to play forum tennis. I'm not interested in your game.
 

Offline jackdaw

An element of truth there somewhere. Psychology is the subject, psychiatrists are practitioners. But they don't exactly cover themselves in glory when they still apply such treatments as ECT - electro convulsive therapy. Thank goodness lobotomy has gone out of fashion. It is a very dubious subject area that is somewhat subjective, and the motives of self appointed experts is something to beware of. A psychology degree doesn't make anyone an expert on the human mind. I don't think such an individual even exists.

As Maxx has already pointed out, you're just factually wrong in your first statement. A practitioner of psychology is called a psychologist.

I agree that treatments such as ECT and lobotomy were ill advised (putting it mildly). But these were procedures carried out by people whose main qualifications were in medicine, rather than psychology....you need formal medical qualifications to carry out such extreme physical operations. But, of course, some of those practitioners also held qualifications in clinical psychology.

As I said earlier psychology is an area where many people pretend to be qualified, and their actions give the subject a poor name. But at its core is an enormous body of empirical knowledge. But...yes...few, if any, "proper" psychologists would claim to understand the human mind.

Aspen

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Previous post is a bit of a rant. Can we get back to the subject, please. Speaking for myself, I've yet to come across one of these self-styled "psychology students" working in the sex industry.

It's not a rant, it's a response. You have the choice whether to read or not, and I suggest you exercise that choice and not whimper about it.

I have encountered at least two WG's who 'claimed' to be past or present psychology students.

Aspen

  • Guest
As Maxx has already pointed out, you're just factually wrong in your first statement. A practitioner of psychology is called a psychologist.

Er, no, I am not factually wrong. I didn't say a psychiatrist is a practitioner of psychology. I concede I could have expanded more to make it clearer i.e. that a psychologist is a practitioner of psychology, and a psychiatrist is a practitioner of psychiatry :yawn: (but isn't that rather obvious anyway). But there again I am not writing on here to win or lose, I am just contributing discussion, which is now thanks to this nit picking, bordering on becoming boring. I've got better things to do. If I didn't have I could probably beat you and/or most other people on here in a competitive debate. But I've got much better things to do, and I would hope you do too.

As I said earlier psychology is an area where many people pretend to be qualified, and their actions give the subject a poor name. But at its core is an enormous body of empirical knowledge. But...yes...few, if any, "proper" psychologists would claim to understand the human mind.

I agree with that, but not, as I've already pointed out, what you said earlier.

Offline CBPaul

Seen two English student girls, one said she was studying psychology and the other business management, I believed neither. On the other hand I seen a good few Polish WGs who claim to be nurses.



 

Offline CBPaul

It's not a rant, it's a response. You have the choice whether to read or not, and I suggest you exercise that choice and not whimper about it.

I have encountered at least two WG's who 'claimed' to be past or present psychology students.

Yes we have the choice whether to read a post or not, but that decision can only be based on the title. Of course we could also read the OP a decide whether to continue with the rest of the thread. Realistically I will read a post and then decide whether it was of interest or a waste of my time, I don't know what is in a post until I have read it do I, so flippant statements about having the choice of to read or not are nonsense frankly.

Aspen

  • Guest
Yes we have the choice whether to read a post or not, but that decision can only be based on the title. Of course we could also read the OP a decide whether to continue with the rest of the thread. Realistically I will read a post and then decide whether it was of interest or a waste of my time, I don't know what is in a post until I have read it do I, so flippant statements about having the choice of to read or not are nonsense frankly.

Are you seriously saying you don't have any choice?

Now THAT's nonsense.

Offline CBPaul

Are you seriously saying you don't have any choice?

Now THAT's nonsense.

No - the first sentence makes that perfectly clear.

You tell me - how do I make an informed choice about whether one of your posts is worth reading without knowing what is in it.

Rochdull lad

  • Guest
An informed choice on an individual post could be difficult, CBP.

However, we all get used to posters on here and can usually make an uninformed chioce whether or not to have that poster on "Ignore".  We might miss a gem of a post by doing so but judge it to be worth the risk!

Aspen

  • Guest
You tell me - how do I make an informed choice about whether one of your posts is worth reading without knowing what is in it.

Your posts are beginning to look like a troll.

Just stick to the subject. If you don't like it then move on without trying to bother the rest of the world about your discomfort and whinging.

Offline CBPaul

An informed choice on an individual post could be difficult, CBP.

However, we all get used to posters on here and can usually make an uninformed chioce whether or not to have that poster on "Ignore".  We might miss a gem of a post by doing so but judge it to be worth the risk!

Yes, it's impossible really. Your point about missing something interesting is spot on.

vorian

  • Guest
I think my niece does psychology at uni. You dirty bastard!!!!!

Link please  :D :D

Offline CBPaul

Your posts are beginning to look like a troll.

Just stick to the subject. If you don't like it then move on without trying to bother the rest of the world about your discomfort and whinging.

A troll - you must be joking.

Problem is Aspen you can't deral with someone disagreeing with you.

Just accept it, I think your comment about us deciding whether or not to read your comments is rubbish. You disagree. Move on. But don't plummet to the depths of calling someone with over 950 posts a troll. 

Rochdull lad

  • Guest
Your posts are beginning to look like a troll.

Just stick to the subject. If you don't like it then move on without trying to bother the rest of the world about your discomfort and whinging.


The words, "pot", "kettle" and "black" occurred to me when I read that.

Offline CBPaul


The words, "pot", "kettle" and "black" occurred to me when I read that.

Yes, that would be another way of putting it.

Calling me a troll  :lol: :lol: :lol:

vorian

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The words, "pot", "kettle" and "black" occurred to me when I read that.

Indeed, it does appear to be somewhat self deluding.

Offline Dani

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Going back on topic :D  I think most girls say they are studying psychology as it is a subject most don't know enough about to start questioning them and what little they do know everyone else knows too.  Therefor they don't have to try and lie their way through this so called degree they are studying for or not studying for. 
Its a great way to lie and sounds much better than saying oh I don't really study I sign on once a week or fortnight or however often it is now

Offline Boundless

I love it when they tell you they're doing it to pay their uni fees and their profile on AW is barely literate!

Offline Dani

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I love it when they tell you they're doing it to pay their uni fees and their profile on AW is barely literate!

Yes but some think lying about being in uni is better than saying they are too lazy/thick to get a proper job.  I am sure there are quite a few students doing this job to pay their way but not as many as is made out.
I don't get it though.  Why should they even have to give an excuse or reason for doing this job?  Why not just say the money and the hours suit me or even better if asked just say don't be nosey (in a nice way not bitchy) smile and do something to take their mind off of personal questions.

Offline maxxblue

Er, no, I am not factually wrong. I didn't say a psychiatrist is a practitioner of psychology. I concede I could have expanded more to make it clearer i.e. that a psychologist is a practitioner of psychology, and a psychiatrist is a practitioner of psychiatry :yawn: (but isn't that rather obvious anyway). But there again I am not writing on here to win or lose, I am just contributing discussion, which is now thanks to this nit picking, bordering on becoming boring. I've got better things to do. If I didn't have I could probably beat you and/or most other people on here in a competitive debate. But I've got much better things to do, and I would hope you do too.

I agree with that, but not, as I've already pointed out, what you said earlier.

Based on the quality of your arguments, I doubt it very much!

Offline Boundless

Yes but some think lying about being in uni is better than saying they are too lazy/thick to get a proper job.  I am sure there are quite a few students doing this job to pay their way but not as many as is made out.
I don't get it though.  Why should they even have to give an excuse or reason for doing this job?  Why not just say the money and the hours suit me or even better if asked just say don't be nosey (in a nice way not bitchy) smile and do something to take their mind off of personal questions.

Quite true Dani. I have to say in my experience I've only had 2 or 3 girls actually say to me they are at uni and they tend to be young and have not been working for long. I don't ask questions about a WG's private life as I wouldn't expect her to ask about mine, although quite a few have asked me what I do for a job, probably as a way of filling the time as I tend to come fairly quickly!  :)

Roland D Hay

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Psychology is the fictitious degree of choice because it's the most easy one to blag and everyone thinks they have insight into human behaviour. Plus, even after you get a real degree in Psychology you still know fuck all.  :hi:

jcdmj12

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Psychology isn't necessarily about therapy. It is the broad study of how minds work. I have studied a lot of it and the knowledge has come in very handy when it comes to getting people to do what I want them to.

Didn't bother with a degree in it though....you can learn all you need from reading and experimenting.

Offline jackdaw

Psychology isn't necessarily about therapy. It is the broad study of how minds work. I have studied a lot of it and the knowledge has come in very handy when it comes to getting people to do what I want them to.

Didn't bother with a degree in it though....you can learn all you need from reading and experimenting.
NB: Massively off original topic.

Assuming the subject hasn't changed since I studied over 40 years ago (I got two degrees in it and worked in area for a couple of years after that), I think its one of the subjects that are most misunderstand by laymen. And the one that most people fondly believe they are experts in.

For a start the thing most people forget is that psychology primarily studies normal behaviour, and all animal behaviour is studied not just human. There's a massive body of knowledge that's got nothing to do with mind. (Indeed many psychologists in my time thought considering "mind"was pointless, that you can predict behaviour without studying internal thought. That may seem bizarre…. but remember a lot of it can be about finding out what quite simple organisms do.)

After several years targeted study… reading widely, attending lectures and tutorials, and designing and carrying out controlled experiments in area…. I fondly believed I knew something about the subject. And a lot of it was about what happened to rats, not people.

But I was probably wrong… certainly every time I told people at a party what I studied, they corrected my beliefs on the subject because "No, I've read a book on subject and know you're wrong". Or even better (from a physicist)  "Everybody can just work out psychology by studying their own thoughts".
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 07:02:06 am by jackdaw »

jcdmj12

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NB: Massively off original topic.

Assuming the subject hasn't changed since I studied over 40 years ago (I got two degrees in it and worked in area for a couple of years after that), I think its one of the subjects that are most misunderstand by laymen. And the one that most people fondly believe they are experts in.

For a start the thing most people forget is that psychology primarily studies normal behaviour, and all animal behaviour is studied not just human. There's a massive body of knowledge that's got nothing to do with mind. (Indeed many psychologists in my time thought considering "mind"was pointless, that you can predict behaviour without studying internal thought. That may seem bizarre…. but remember a lot of it can be about finding out what quite simple organisms do.)

After several years targeted study… reading widely, attending lectures and tutorials, and designing and carrying out controlled experiments in area…. I fondly believed I knew something about the subject. And a lot of it was about what happened to rats, not people.

But I was probably wrong… certainly every time I told people at a party what I studied, they corrected my beliefs on the subject because "No, I've read a book on subject and know you're wrong". Or even better (from a physicist)  "Everybody can just work out psychology by studying their own thoughts".
It has changed a bit since you studied it 40 years ago... although it's still not a particularly well-defined field.   Behaviourism (I guess you're talking about Skinner, Watson etc?) was extremely popular in the 70s/early 80s, then Cognitive Science became more popular (with the focus on Mind).  The current flavour of the decade is biological reductionism via fMRI scanning.  There is far more crossover with neuroscience.  Partly because of improving technology, partly because animal experimentation licenses are much harder and more expensive to come by, and partly because they'd never get ethics approval for the interesting human behavioural experiments they used to do these days (Little Albert, for example  :scare:).

All of the above fall under the same umbrella, but are obviously very different. I'd classify behaviourism more as biology, personally, but I know many don't. Interestingly it's started to crop up in economics as well. It's really a question of labelling as 'interdisciplinary' seems to be the buzzword in most academic fields nowadays.




Offline jackdaw

It has changed a bit since you studied it 40 years ago... although it's still not a particularly well-defined field.   Behaviourism (I guess you're talking about Skinner, Watson etc?) was extremely popular in the 70s/early 80s, then Cognitive Science became more popular (with the focus on Mind).  The current flavour of the decade is biological reductionism via fMRI scanning.  There is far more crossover with neuroscience.  Partly because of improving technology, partly because animal experimentation licenses are much harder and more expensive to come by, and partly because they'd never get ethics approval for the interesting human behavioural experiments they used to do these days (Little Albert, for example  :scare:).

All of the above fall under the same umbrella, but are obviously very different. I'd classify behaviourism more as biology, personally, but I know many don't. Interestingly it's started to crop up in economics as well. It's really a question of labelling as 'interdisciplinary' seems to be the buzzword in most academic fields nowadays.

Cheers. You're right about Skinner and Watson being very influential in my early studies.

I better not ponder your summary of what's happened in recent decades too closely… it sounds interesting, and I might be tempted to do some reading on subject if I think about it too much. (I made a "sacred vow" never to read up on subject after I left field.)