eBay ditching PayPal

[Gordon Bennett]

This is interesting. I've found the current set-up of "forcing" you to use PayPal a bit annoying so I'm glad they're moving to just using your debit/credit card like a normal retailer does.
I'm struggling to see why I'd bother with a PayPal account going forwards, surely 90% of people with a PayPal account have it because of eBay? Bizarrely, PayPal is separately introducing charges on dormant accounts (is not used for 12 months) so it's like they're encouraging people like me to close my account once I'm no longer using it for eBay purposes.

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[daviemac]

That just affects the way sellers receive their money, buyers can continue to pay through Papal. 

100's of places accept Paypal, it isn't just for Ebay, I even use it at the likes of Screwfix.

[VFM]

ebay acquired paypal a long time ago.  They then span it off and became 2 separate companies.  They agreed to maintain a strong working relationship for several years hence why paypal was the preferred method of payment on ebay. Paypal is here to stay, it is already valued more than Goldman Sachs and Citigroup. Paypal also lets you use bitcoin to settle your transactions.  It is disrupting the market and here to stay.

[Mothball15]

+ it’s good to send money to family and friends.

[winkywanky]

There's one big advantage in using Paypal. Protection for both buyer and seller. eBay will need protection to be just as good as it was before, and they will need to supply it.

Scams and bad sellers/buyers do exist on eBay. You can be ripped off. But you get your money back, at least I have. The scammers still get away with shit but you don't take the hit.

Example: I sold a very nice piece of hi-fi kit on eBay a few years ago. For £600. The guy paid, left good feedback. Then about six weeks later messaged me to say it was faulty, and that he hadn't checked the item when it arrived. It was fine when it left me (recently serviced) and I suspect he was either lying or had used it for a disco or something and damaged it himself. Neverthless, before I knew anything about it, £600 had been taken from my bank. He'd apparently used his credit card through Paypal and got his money back via his card.

So this cunt had broken the one-month rule to declare any problem, got all his money back and I was out of pocket. I was shitting myself for two days while I had to come up with proof of delivery etc. I got my money back. Phew. But this cunt got a £600 piece of hifi kit for nothing. Even if it had been dropped during transit and damaged (unlikely, I'd packaged it so well, better than from new) he could have had it fixed for a lot less than that.

[winkywanky]

That just affects the way sellers receive their money, buyers can continue to pay through Paypal. 

But presumably if you do that, as a seller you then pay Paypal fees on top of the elevated eBay fees?

[daviemac]

But presumably if you do that, as a seller you then pay Paypal fees on top of the elevated eBay fees?

I was making the point that Ebay ditching Paypal doesn't affect buyers, only sellers, which the thread title doesn't make clear.

A buyer never has had to pay through Paypal unless the seller stipulates it's the only acceptable method.  It is far safer than bank transfer, sending a cheque or collecting and paying cash though.

[winkywanky]

 

[Gordon Bennett]

Amazon marketplace works okay without being welded to PayPal. eBay has been shit at its job and allowed Amazon to muscle in and be the go to place for "stuff". Given eBay was the defacto place for "stuff" for a good while before Amazon Marketplace elbowed its way ahead it's pretty shoddy leadership on behalf of eBay.
eBay clearly doesn't feel PayPal is conducive to fighting back - I'm pretty sure they will implement some sort of buyer/seller protection that's akin to current arrangements.
Anyway, I'm convinced that the vast majority of folks only opened a PayPal account because of ebay. I'm struggling to see how they will maintain new sign-ups going forwards or convince people of my mindset to maintain a PayPal account afterwards. I know I'll be closing my account the minute it's not needed to buy/sell on eBay.

[daviemac]

A***** marketplace works okay without being welded to PayPal. eBay has been shit at its job and allowed A***** to muscle in and be the go to place for "stuff". Given eBay was the defacto place for "stuff" for a good while before A***** Marketplace elbowed its way ahead it's pretty shoddy leadership on behalf of eBay.
eBay clearly doesn't feel PayPal is conducive to fighting back - I'm pretty sure they will implement some sort of buyer/seller protection that's akin to current arrangements.
Anyway, I'm convinced that the vast majority of folks only opened a PayPal account because of ebay. I'm struggling to see how they will maintain new sign-ups going forwards or convince people of my mindset to maintain a PayPal account afterwards. I know I'll be closing my account the minute it's not needed to buy/sell on eBay.

Ebay have their own money back guarantee and paypal is accepted in thousands of other places, I use it all the time. One of the advantages is payment is isolated from your own bank details, another is ease of payment, I just click 'Paypal' on the site I'm buying from then log in to Paypal and press pay.

[winkywanky]

Ebay have their own money back guarantee and paypal is accepted in thousands of other places, I use it all the time. One of the advantages is payment is isolated from your own bank details, another is ease of payment, I just click 'Paypal' on the site I'm buying from then log in to Paypal and press pay.

Strictly speaking I would say no.

As per my earlier example, one guy who bought a very expensive item off me and then said it was broken (almost certainly bogus, and certainly he was outside the eBay rules that you have to raise an issue within one month) did a clawback on £600.

He'd paid by Paypal, but using his credit card. He tried to get a refund through eBay but couldn't because too much time had elapsed. So then he got onto his credit card supplier and they clawed the money back. Then Paypal took it out of my bloody account because that's my account that's linked to Paypal!

I shat myself for two days until I managed to prove that I'd done everything correctly and by the book, and that the item had been successfully delivered. It did occur to me to question the legality of that if push came to shove, but I got my money back. But the guy got a very nice hifi amplifier for nothing, courtesy of eBay  . I did contact them to say that he'd simply got away with it, if anything he should have been forced to send it to ebay for disposal. But they simply ignored me.

In reality they're so ginormously wealthy that they can afford to let shits like him get away with it. Which of course everyone esle effectively pays for  .

[daviemac]

Strictly speaking I would say no.

As per my earlier example, one guy who bought a very expensive item off me and then said it was broken (almost certainly bogus, and certainly he was outside the eBay rules that you have to raise an issue within one month) did a clawback on £600.

He'd paid by Paypal, but using his credit card. He tried to get a refund through eBay but couldn't because too much time had elapsed. So then he got onto his credit card supplier and they clawed the money back. Then Paypal took it out of my bloody account because that's my account that's linked to Paypal!

I shat myself for two days until I managed to prove that I'd done everything correctly and by the book, and that the item had been successfully delivered. It did occur to me to question the legality of that if push came to shove, but I got my money back. But the guy got a very nice hifi amplifier for nothing, courtesy of eBay  . I did contact them to say that he'd simply got away with it, if anything he should have been forced to send it to ebay for disposal. But they simply ignored me.

In reality they're so ginormously wealthy that they can afford to let shits like him get away with it. Which of course everyone esle effectively pays for  .

Yeah, but that was a charge back through his credit card which can be done quite easily and as it wasn't challenged it went through. When you did challenge it they took the money back.

I mean if I buy something from you and pay by Paypal, they pay you and my bank pay them, you don't have my credit card details only paypal does, all you have are the contact details I've registered with them.

[winkywanky]

Yeah, but that was a charge back through his credit card which can be done quite easily and as it wasn't challenged it went through. When you did challenge it they took the money back.

I mean if I buy something from you and pay by Paypal, they pay you and my bank pay them, you don't have my credit card details only paypal does, all you have are the contact details I've registered with them.

Yes I know what it was. But things could have gone tits up for me. To the tune of £600. And I'd done nothing wrong. It did scare me. And the guy got away with it.

The guy didn't have my details yet he almost managed to fleece me. He effectively had direct access to my bank account (via Paypal), and that did shock me. The money actually left my account. I had to claim it back effectively.

Probably an unusual case, but nevertheless. Although the guy never disputed delivery of the item it seemed to be a big thing that I could prove despatch and delivery. After all the time that had elapsed, if I hadn't been able to, I'm not entirely sure what would have happened? Luckily I'd sent by Hermes and their tracking is normally very good.

[puntingpumping1920]

Strictly speaking I would say no.

As per my earlier example, one guy who bought a very expensive item off me and then said it was broken (almost certainly bogus, and certainly he was outside the eBay rules that you have to raise an issue within one month) did a clawback on £600.

He'd paid by Paypal, but using his credit card. He tried to get a refund through eBay but couldn't because too much time had elapsed. So then he got onto his credit card supplier and they clawed the money back. Then Paypal took it out of my bloody account because that's my account that's linked to Paypal!

I shat myself for two days until I managed to prove that I'd done everything correctly and by the book, and that the item had been successfully delivered. It did occur to me to question the legality of that if push came to shove, but I got my money back. But the guy got a very nice hifi amplifier for nothing, courtesy of eBay  . I did contact them to say that he'd simply got away with it, if anything he should have been forced to send it to ebay for disposal. But they simply ignored me.

In reality they're so ginormously wealthy that they can afford to let shits like him get away with it. Which of course everyone esle effectively pays for  .

How did you prove the item wasn't broken when he received it?

[daviemac]

Yes I know what it was. But things could have gone tits up for me. To the tune of £600. And I'd done nothing wrong. It did scare me. And the guy got away with it.

The guy didn't have my details yet he almost managed to fleece me. He effectively had direct access to my bank account (via Paypal), and that did shock me. The money actually left my account. I had to claim it back effectively.

Probably an unusual case, but nevertheless. Although the guy never disputed delivery of the item it seemed to be a big thing that I could prove despatch and delivery. After all the time that had elapsed, if I hadn't been able to, I'm not entirely sure what would have happened? Luckily I'd sent by Hermes and their tracking is normally very good.

Perhaps I'm not explaining it very well, Paypal and Ebay didn't refund him, they refused, so he went to his credit card company and they took the money back from who they paid it to, Paypal. They weren't going to lose out so took the money from you.

Am I right in thinking you have the £600 now and he has the item, if that is the case it's been sorted out between your bank and his, nothing to do with Paypal.

[winkywanky]

How did you prove the item wasn't broken when he received it?

Of course I couldn't. The item was visually fine but the guy reckoned he finally tried it after a few weeks and it was 'broken'. He left it too late to be within eBay rules.

[winkywanky]

Perhaps I'm not explaining it very well, Paypal and Ebay didn't refund him, they refused, so he went to his credit card company and they took the money back from who they paid it to, Paypal. They weren't going to lose out so took the money from you.

Am I right in thinking you have the £600 now and he has the item, if that is the case it's been sorted out between your bank and his, nothing to do with Paypal.

As I said, I have my £600. But he has the amp and £600.

Paypal finally refunded me. His credit card company clawed back the £600 off Paypal, then Paypal took £600 out of my account so they wouldn't be out of pocket, until I protested my innocence.

[daviemac]

As I said, I have my £600. But he has the amp and £600.

Paypal finally refunded me. His credit card company clawed back the £600 off Paypal, then Paypal took £600 out of my account so they wouldn't be out of pocket, until I protested my innocence.

How do you know he still has the £600 and Paypal didn't take it back from him the same way they took it from you.      

[Gordon Bennett]

Last time I selected PayPal to pay for a click & collect at Screwfix I badly regretted it. Once I'd checked out it told me I needed to present photo ID at time of collection and I didn't have any at that time. My driving licence is old paper one and passport was being renewed. I ended up having to cancel the order and re-buy on my debit card. I only used PayPal as I had just sold something on eBay and had funds sloshing about, seemed a convenient way to kill two birds with one stone but turned out it really wasn't.

[winkywanky]

How do you know he still has the £600 and Paypal didn't take it back from him the same way they took it from you.   

Because I believe eBay effectively told me. I had a couple of phone conversations with them during the whole business, asking them how the fuck he could get away with this (of course I was far more interested in getting my £600 back).

I did say to the woman I spoke to that the guy had the amp, and his money, and that that couldn't be right or fair. She basically wouldn't be drawn on it. I take that as an admission that the guy got exactly what he wanted. I may be wrong but I doubt it.

I doubt very much whether Paypal contested the guy clawing back the money, it would end up being a battle between Visa and Paypal  . There's also the 'dynamic' between eBay and Paypal: I'm not sure at the time whether they effectively had the same owners? They used to. Not now. I doubt there would be a court case over £600. That's peanuts to them in the scheme of things. But they'd have been arguing with themselves in any event .

And I feel totally sure that eBay have no way of recycling a humming amplifier (that's all the problem was, according to the guy). Unless they have a whole department for this kind of thing? They're just a portal effectively, linking sellers and buyers, and with a whole set of rules to try and make it fair and above board.They take a big cut for that, the customer gets access to an enormous worldwide resource for buying/providing products. I've sold stuff that's gone all over the world...the world is your marketplace in essence. It is genius of course, but it's far from perfect and you need to cover your arse. It's also a massive opportunity for fraud for those very reasons.

[winkywanky]

Last time I selected PayPal to pay for a click & collect at Screwfix I badly regretted it. Once I'd checked out it told me I needed to present photo ID at time of collection and I didn't have any at that time. My driving licence is old paper one and passport was being renewed. I ended up having to cancel the order and re-buy on my debit card. I only used PayPal as I had just sold something on eBay and had funds sloshing about, seemed a convenient way to kill two birds with one stone but turned out it really wasn't.

Any funds in your Paypal account are easily and instantly transferable to your linked bank account. There's no fee either. They make all their money from when the money enters your Paypal account. Plus any interest from it being there of course.

If you transfer to your bank account, it literally does take about 30s before it shows up there.

Top tip 

[sub_marine]

Ebay have their own money back guarantee and paypal is accepted in thousands of other places, I use it all the time. One of the advantages is payment is isolated from your own bank details, another is ease of payment, I just click 'Paypal' on the site I'm buying from then log in to Paypal and press pay.

Same here, I use paypal for most things online, saves so much time as they already have all my credit card details any address I might use.  Only slight issue I would say is that sometimes my credit card statement is a bit cryptic as there could be 30 entries from paypal, who don't provide the best description of who got paid, although i appreciate that its down to the banking system only offering 20 characters for the description

[RogerBoner]

I'm not sure if this is still the case but PayPal accounts along with high  street store card accounts were a place to keep a large credit balance away from the prying eyes of HMRC.
I would usually opt to pay using PayPal for the extra layer of security should someone flog a dodgy old amp online 

[winkywanky]

I'm not sure if this is still the case but PayPal accounts along with high  street store card accounts were a place to keep a large credit balance away from the prying eyes of HMRC.
I would usually opt to pay using PayPal for the extra layer of security should someone flog a dodgy old amp online 

I'll have you know it was a recently serviced Quad 606  .

The guy piped up after he'd had it for about seven weeks, that there was a hum in one channel or something. I tend to think that's absolute bollocks, because if you spend £600 on an amp off eBay, the first thing you do is plug the damn thing in to make sure all is well 

I suspect what happened is that he inappropriately ran a bleeding Disco off it or something and damaged it, and then thought he would invent a story about it being broken upon delivery.

He contacted me to say he wanted his money back, and I quite rightly told him he'd gone way past the period where you're able to lodge a complaint (I believe that was and still is, 4wks). Next thing I knew, a couple of days later Paypal had taken £600 out of my bank account and I was left having to prove I was innocent! I wasn't happy!