Ten Minute Rule Bill: Nordic Model

[LanceVance]

This Wednesday, a Ten Minute Rule Bill will be introduced in the House of Commons by Diana Johnson MP, seeking to criminalise the purchase of sex and ban online advertising platforms for sex workers (e.g. Adultwork). While this is unlikely to become law, if the Commons votes for it, it could still be adopted as Government policy. SWARM have drafted a template for letters to send to your MP, setting out the harms of such a policy, all that would be needed is your signature.

Follow the link in this tweet. External Link/Members Only

[GingerNuts]

Surely this is "on topic" and there are various threads where the Nordic Model has been discussed.

[JayEZ2K]

Is it ok to move this to general discussion, and possibly change the title as a request for action? Since they will introduce the bill to criminalize punting on Wednesday, now is the time to contact your MPs using the prepared message: External Link/Members Only

[winkywanky]

I've taken the liberty of moving this to the General Discussion Board. This thread couldn't be more On-Topic if it tried.

[Marmalade]

Possibly add this is England and Wales only, not U.K. -wide.

[sparkus]

I'm guessing the lack of replies is that most UKP members don't know what a Ten Minute Rule Bill is and therefore what this is about (or that the Ten Minute Rule is something imposed by a Rom WG during a 15 minute quickie).

I think I saw 'Nordic Model' on a door in Soho once...

[Squire Haggard]

After seeing Diana Johnson's photo on her Wikipedia page, and reading about her anti men campaign, I can understand why so many believed in witches in the past. She really looks vile.  She'll probably be in touch with the other witches north of the border, who are currently trying to do the same, despite the SPs themselves opposing it.

[LanceVance]

I've taken the liberty of moving this to the General Discussion Board. This thread couldn't be more On-Topic if it tried.

Fair enough, I only put into Off-Topic to stop any lurking  from seeing it. I only saw this last night otherwise I would have posted it earlier.

[LanceVance]

Possibly add this is England and Wales only, not U.K. -wide.

Yes that is true, although that doesn't mean the Nordic Model isn't also a threat in Scotland of course.

[JayEZ2K]

Thanks for posting on this subject. I think this came a bit late for us. For those who keep track of the political environment, maybe we could organize our efforts so that calls to action could be stickied. This way, people who don't follow politics could at least get a clear and concise notice of the danger, and know what to do. If possible, it might also help to pre-emptively keep a general list of MPs/candidates who are in allies and enemies, to have that knowledge while voting.

[winkywanky]

Possibly add this is England and Wales only, not U.K. -wide.

...bloody Scots with their Devolutionist agenda...

[winkywanky]

Fair point, well made Marmalade.

[winkywanky]

I'm guessing the lack of replies is that most UKP members don't know what a Ten Minute Rule Bill is and therefore what this is about (or that the Ten Minute Rule is something imposed by a Rom WG during a 15 minute quickie).

I think I saw 'Nordic Model' on a door in Soho once...

 

[winkywanky]

After seeing Diana Johnson's photo on her Wikipedia page, and reading about her anti men campaign, I can understand why so many believed in witches in the past. She really looks vile.  She'll probably be in touch with the other witches north of the border, who are currently trying to do the same, despite the SPs themselves opposing it.

Where's the Thane of Cawdor in all of this?

[Itsnotshy]

So 2020 looks like it could get even worse. The year the hell beast cat dragged in.

[no2punter]

Very concerning. I suspect turnout during the vote will be fairly low, so seems like a good chance it could pass with only a few MPs voting in favour.

[Kelgon85]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a rarity for Ten Minute Rule bills to progress any further? Also, I'm pretty sure this has happened before.

[Itsnotshy]

It's now passed onto a second reading on I think 29th January. If it passes that it has to go to commitee and report stages then a third reading. If it passes that we'd better start exchanging phone numbers 'cause we're going underground like the Jam.
Merry Christmas and happy new year!

[Kelgon85]

Progression often does happen, but they very rarely progress to the point of becoming law. There have been exceptions, but most of the time it doesn't happen.

[Itsnotshy]

Progression often does happen, but they very rarely progress to the point of becoming law. There have been exceptions, but most of the time it doesn't happen.

Hope you're right because for me it'd be a choice between celibacy or criminality.

[Pointless]

Is it ok to move this to general discussion, and possibly change the title as a request for action? Since they will introduce the bill to criminalize punting on Wednesday, now is the time to contact your MPs using the prepared message: External Link/Members Only

Quick note - MPs pay a lot less attention to pre-prepared messages, they are much more likely to read it and reply if you take the time to write your own message.

[Squire Haggard]

You can see the nasty piece of work here, with that dragged through a hedge backwards look. She ignores the fact that the vast majority of SPs are not exploited in any way. They hate her just as much as punters do.

Her verbal dysentery starts at 14.58.....

External Link/Members Only

[Kelgon85]

She (and others who back her) are purposely ignoring the mounting evidence that the Nordic Model has caused significantly more harm than good. All for her own agenda. Nothing more. WGs on Twitter are tearing her a new one, as well as some MPs. She's actively seeking to cause great harm to the very people she apparently wants to protect. Horrible and vile. 

Nonetheless, I'm not too worried, as Ten Minute Rule bills very rarely actually become law and just serve for debate more than anything.

[sparkus]

Progression often does happen, but they very rarely progress to the point of becoming law. There have been exceptions, but most of the time it doesn't happen.

'Kerb crawling' was criminalised in the 80s by a backbench Private Members Bill which gained government support and became law.  So you might get a bill if you put your member into anyone's privates in the back of your car.

This was the era when no end of Tory MPs were frequenting Shepherd Market, from Jeffrey Archer to Norman Tebbitt (apparently as a result of his wife's disability from the Brighton bomb).  The DPP later had to resign as he was arrested for kerb crawling in Kings Cross.

[unclepokey]

And, just by the way, has not PC Plod have much more important matters to attend to? And have the courts not better things also. Finally is there enough prison space? Criminalizing a not insignificant percentage of the male population alone requires really careful consideration by Parliament. This bill is without merit on so many issues. The very fact that similar initiatives have failed in our parliament says much. 

[Squire Haggard]

An article is out already....

External Link/Members Only

[winkywanky]

'Kerb crawling' was criminalised in the 80s by a backbench Private Members Bill which gained government support and became law.  So you might get a bill if you put your member into anyone's privates in the back of your car.

This was the era when no end of Tory MPs were frequenting Shepherd Market, from Jeffrey Archer to Norman Tebbitt (apparently as a result of his wife's disability from the Brighton bomb).  The DPP later had to resign as he was arrested for kerb crawling in Kings Cross.

Archer surprises me not a jot (two-faced slimy cunt) but Tebbitt? Also a cunt, a nasty one, but an outwardly upstanding, opinionated and 'principled' one, and I would appreciate any links to strong rumours of his sexual misdemanours (as would anyione within 30 miles of a closed down Pit)  .

[contentguy]

Lyn Brown's response to the proposed bill was more intelligent (at about 15:08).
Johnson conflated prostitution with trafficking.
Whereas Brown was much more forensic about explaining the downside of the Nordic mode.

Interesting viewing, thx Squire H for the link.

[sparkus]

Archer surprises me not a jot (two-faced slimy cunt) but Tebbitt? Also a cunt, a nasty one, but an outwardly upstanding, opinionated and 'principled' one, and I would appreciate any links to strong rumours of his sexual misdemanours (as would anyione within 30 miles of a closed down Pit)  .

The Archer story is caught up with the late Monica Coghlan (anyone here punt?) and his fall from grace, so quite well known.  I also read that a female journalist once turned up to his luxury flat but he got his times mixed up and said to her when he opened the door "OK, you''ll do, bedroom's there, take your clothes off."

The Tebbitt story was more of a Westminster rumour but that Archer took the fall for him as he was meeting Coghlan to procure her for Tebbit when the tabloids sprung him.

[winkywanky]

The Archer story is caught up with the late Monica Coughlan (anyone here punt?) and his fall from grace, so quite well known.  I also read that a female journalist once turned up to his luxury flat but he got his times mixed up and said to her when he opened the door "OK, you''ll do, bedroom's there, take your clothes off."

The Tebbitt story was more of a Westminster rumour but that Archer took the fall for him as he was meeting Coughlan to procure her for Tebbit when the tabloids sprung him.

Bet that went down well with a female career journalist! 

Archer take the fall for someone else? I do find it hard to believe that he had even one bone of humility in him.

[Squire Haggard]

Lyn Brown's response to the proposed bill was more intelligent (at about 15:08).
Johnson conflated prostitution with trafficking.
Whereas Brown was much more forensic about explaining the downside of the Nordic mode.

Interesting viewing, thx Squire H for the link.

 

Yes, Brown spoke sense. I wonder if Johnson will still want to be friends with her. 

[sparkus]

Bet that went down well with a female career journalist! 

Archer take the fall for someone else? I do find it hard to believe that he had even one bone of humility in him.

Tebbitt was Tory Chairman and Archer Vice Chairman at the time, so it's mildly plausible?

I guess Archer could have slept with her beforehand anyway, so the tabloids were onto something in any case, but he was probably told by the powers that be to take the heat off anyone else involved.

In case of anyone's fears UKP may have to contend with libel from any politicians, I think this story is well known in the bars of Westminster/Fleet Street and may have easily been cooked up to smear Tebbitt.

[Strawberry]

I received an email from the ECP (English Collective of Prostitutes) about this last night, I believe sign up for notifications is possible.

Horrendous, however I have heard a Labour MP made a very good speech against it.

From my readings over the years it's not just the Nordic model that can be the problem, although for punters it is the primary problem - it's the other laws which get introduced alongside. For example making it difficult to obtain accommodation, or use any property. Generally distancing providers by roundabout legislation. It's not good, not good at all.

So if you can get writing, contacting MPs. Quite a few sex worker outreach organisations are constantly campaigning for decriminalisation, and against the Nordic model. I was caught sleeping on this one.

[blend57]

Can someone remind me which was the party that routinely shuts down investigations into the rape gangs that exist up and down the country?

[winkywanky]

Tebbitt was Tory Chairman and Archer Vice Chairman at the time, so it's mildly plausible?

I guess Archer could have slept with her beforehand anyway, so the tabloids were onto something in any case, but he was probably told by the powers that be to take the heat off anyone else involved.

In case of anyone's fears UKP may have to contend with libel from any politicians, I think this story is well known in the bars of Westminster/Fleet Street and may have easily been cooked up to smear Tebbitt.

Archer was Chairman of Vice, how very appropriate 

[winkywanky]

I was caught sleeping on this one.

Sleeping on the job Strawberry, whatever next     

[Itsnotshy]

I received an email from the ECP (English Collective of Prostitutes) about this last night, I believe sign up for notifications is possible.

Horrendous, however I have heard a Labour MP made a very good speech against it.

From my readings over the years it's not just the Nordic model that can be the problem, although for punters it is the primary problem - it's the other laws which get introduced alongside. For example making it difficult to obtain accommodation, or use any property. Generally distancing providers by roundabout legislation. It's not good, not good at all.

So if you can get writing, contacting MPs. Quite a few sex worker outreach organisations are constantly campaigning for decriminalisation, and against the Nordic model. I was caught sleeping on this one.

I've noticed a lot of very angry sex workers on twitter over this bill.
I suspect this is a battle you'll have to fight largely on your own.
Nobody is going to listen to us punters. We could even inadvertently end up doing more harm than good.
Although it might help if MPs know that if they vote for this we don't vote for them, and we have long memories.

[contentguy]

Yes, Brown spoke sense. I wonder if Johnson will still want to be friends with her. 

I'd love to watch the catfight in the coven.

 

[sparkus]

Even if MPs voted for it, it's unlikely to pass without government support and the timetable is chocca with new laws for Brexit etc.  The 1980s law on kerb crawling had already been accepted by the government as part of a law reform committee before the backbench MP proposed it.

All I can say is go Hampshire Womens Institute and ASLEF: External Link/Members Only

[Squire Haggard]

Dame Diana, if you're reading this, shove this up your pipe and smoke it. 

''Johnson’s bill is opposed by Amnesty International, Hampshire Women’s Institute, Women Against Rape, anti-violence organisation National Ugly Mugs, harm-reduction charity Release, train drivers’ union ASLEF, and Ipswich and District Trades Union Council.''

External Link/Members Only

[sparkus]

Dame Diana, if you're reading this, shove this up your pipe and smoke it. 

''Johnson’s bill is opposed by Amnesty International, Hampshire Women’s Institute, Women Against Rape, anti-violence organisation National Ugly Mugs, harm-reduction charity Release, train drivers’ union ASLEF, and Ipswich and District Trades Union Council.''

External Link/Members Only

I'd love to have been at those ASLEF and Ipswich and District Trades Union Council meetings when this was discussed.

"Next on the agenda, sex work.  All those in favour say 'Aye'."

[contentguy]

Dame Diana, if you're reading this, shove this up your pipe and smoke it. 

''Johnson’s bill is opposed by Amnesty International, Hampshire Women’s Institute, Women Against Rape, anti-violence organisation National Ugly Mugs, harm-reduction charity Release, train drivers’ union ASLEF, and Ipswich and District Trades Union Council.''

External Link/Members Only

She’s more into ‘fluffynet’, google discovered that one of the reviews she quoted was from 2014 on the site formerly run by ‘Galahad.’ 

[sparkus]

She’s more into ‘fluffynet’, google discovered that one of the reviews she quoted was from 2014 on the site formerly run by ‘Galahad.’

They always are, it's the go-to site for

I imagine them poring over every single report.