A Covid-19 vaccine at last!

[Kinkylondongent]

Today I have seen my 7th covid patient of wave 2 which is my department's 15th overall of wave 2 . Nowhere near the first wave but please mask up and stay at home .
P.S. my hospital doesn't have the vaccine yet despite 326 cases per 100000 locally

[Jimmyredcab]

Today I have seen my 7th covid patient of wave 2 which is my department's 15th overall of wave 2 . Nowhere near the first wave but please mask up and stay at home .
P.S. my hospital doesn't have the vaccine yet despite 326 cases per 100000 locally

Thanks for the advice, how much longer would you like me to "stay at home", another month, six months, forever. ?????

[Kinkylondongent]

Thanks for the advice, how much longer would you like me to "stay at home", another month, six months, forever. ?????

For as long as you can as often as you can .

[myothernameis]

Thanks for the advice, how much longer would you like me to "stay at home", another month, six months, forever. ?????

Think we should also be  asking, how long will the vaccine protect me, 6 months, 9 months, 1 year.  If its something like 6 months, and you get vaccinated, around Jan, come Sept/Oct will you be at risk once more from getting covid-19

[Jimmyredcab]

Think we should also be  asking, how long will the vaccine protect me, 6 months, 9 months, 1 year.  If its something like 6 months, and you get vaccinated, around Jan, come Sept/Oct will you be at risk once more from getting covid-19

That remains to be seen, let’s face it, this time last year we had not even heard of Covid19, we are in a far better position than we were in March when we knew nothing about the virus. ??

[Jimmyredcab]

For as long as you can as often as you can .

You do realise that it’s mainly the over 65’s at risk, this is not Ebola. ?????

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[Kinkylondongent]

You do realise that it’s mainly the over 65’s at risk, this is not Ebola. ?????

Youngest to die in my hospital was a teen with no underlying conditions . Youngest I've personally seen was 23 .

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[Jimmyredcab]

These figures are from the ONS and Public Health England.
I am in one of the higher risk categories.

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[daviemac]

Davie mine was a light hearted comment (which quick witted WW as always understood and latched onto). Steelworker's was also a light hearted follow up to mine, but he is right in general terms about risk.

However as you always seem to take it seriously, if not personally, I will now be serious also. You are quite right that we do not know your individual circumstances or have access to your medical records, but you have posted many times that you are in a high risk group. You have also posted that you keep being asked each year to have the flu vaccine but refuse by choice .. which is fine.

Given those two factors and in combination with age I would expect your GP to advise you to have the Covid vaccine, which you have indicated you will likely decline. That is your personal choice which I respect. 

Doc, serious point, the latest news is those who have had serious allergic reaction to vaccines in the past should not have this one. When I had pneumonia I felt a little unwell for a few days and the only reason I was in hospital was for intravenous antibiotics. I had the pneumococcal vaccine and was ill for nearly 10 days, my doc was very concerned and if I hadn't shown any improvement overnight I would've been admitted to hospital. I have also had an allergic reaction to the most commonly prescribed statins. 

Given those facts I will be quite surprised if my doctor does recommend the vaccine for me. I am however going to get in touch over the next few days to discuss it.

I should make it very clear I am NOT anti vaccine, I believe in the vast majority of cases it will be highly beneficial, I'm just not convinced it is suitable for me personally.

 

[winkywanky]

Think we should also be  asking, how long will the vaccine protect me, 6 months, 9 months, 1 year.  If its something like 6 months, and you get vaccinated, around Jan, come Sept/Oct will you be at risk once more from getting covid-19

Even if the immunity only lasted 6mths, if as many people were vaccinated as quickly as possible (as they are being now), it would still have a big impact on the virus. It would drive it down, it would pretty well eradicate it, certainly in the form in which it now exists.

Or would you rather we just did fuck all?

It's likely that most people will have longer immunity than that, and in any case, we'll probably end up in a scenario where those older/vulnerable people who already have an annual Flu jab, will likely also have an annual Covid jab. So over a course of time, Covid will become little worse than the Flu in terms of social impact.

What's happening right now is the early and necessary beginning of all that.

Or like I say, would you rather we just did fuck all?

[Doc Holliday]

Doc, serious point, the latest news is those who have had serious allergic reaction to vaccines in the past should not have this one. When I had pneumonia I felt a little unwell for a few days and the only reason I was in hospital was for intravenous antibiotics. I had the pneumococcal vaccine and was ill for nearly 10 days, my doc was very concerned and if I hadn't shown any improvement overnight I would've been admitted to hospital. I have also had an allergic reaction to the most commonly prescribed statins. 

Given those facts I will be quite surprised if my doctor does recommend the vaccine for me. I am however going to get in touch over the next few days to discuss it.

I should make it very clear I am NOT anti vaccine, I believe in the vast majority of cases it will be highly beneficial, I'm just not convinced it is suitable for me personally.

Highly sensible approach. There are seldom clear cut decisions in life for anyone.  This could be a particularly difficult one for you and your Doctor. Good luck. 

[winkywanky]

Re: the point about people with a history of allergic reaction to previous vaccines and the Covid vaccine, these couple of people who've had reactions, I wonder if they fit that description?

I've been having an annual Flu jab for around 10yrs now, and every time I take it (and they know who I am because I've had it doe in the same GP Surgery all that time) they ask me if I'm allergic to vaccines or any other egg-related products.

Can it be the case that these two weren't quizzed about any previous reactions?  Or perhaps they were so keen to have the Covid vaccine they lied or put it at the back of their minds?

[Jimmyredcab]

Or like I say, would you rather we just did fuck all?

Doing nothing is not an option, lockdowns have failed, masks have failed, it seems that vaccines are the last roll of the dice. 

[winkywanky]

Doing nothing is not an option, lockdowns have failed, masks have failed, it seems that vaccines are the last roll of the dice. 

Clearly they haven't failed, the perfect example of which is that every time we have a Lockdown the infection rate goes down and so do the deaths? Had it not been for Lockdowns and distancing/handwashing/masks etc then the death rate would have been catastrophic. And hospitals would have been overrun 

It was always going to be a rollercoaster of 'waves' of infection, they always said it would be, until a vaccine came along. And thank God we seems to have vaccines which work well, and they came bloody quickly too 

[Jimmyredcab]

Clearly they haven't failed, the perfect example of which is that every time we have a Lockdown the infection rate goes down and so do the deaths? Had it not been for Lockdowns and distancing/handwashing/masks etc then the death rate would have been catastrophic. And hospitals would have been overrun 

The first lockdown on 23rd March was essential because we had no idea what we were dealing with, the subsequent lockdowns have simply helped to ruin the economy.

Yes, of course they APPEAR to work because infections go down, as soon as they are lifted they increase again.

I like to compare it to going on a crash diet, the pounds will fall off but when the diet ends the weight will go back on.

Even the WHO questioned the effectiveness of lockdowns.   

[Blackpool Rock]

The first lockdown on 23rd March was essential because we had no idea what we were dealing with, the subsequent lockdowns have simply helped to ruin the economy.

Yes, of course they APPEAR to work because infections go down, as soon as they are lifted they increase again.

I like to compare it to going on a crash diet, the pounds will fall off but when the diet ends the weight will go back on.

Even the WHO questioned the effectiveness of lockdowns.   

So you mean they appear to work because they do actually work then 

The reason they go back up after being lifted is partly down to people not sticking to the rules / guidance, compare the UK to South Korea who last time I checked hadn't actually locked down but had a strict regime of masks and testing etc long before we did but their people happily comply with the rules / guidance whereas here people go on a bender the night before lock down and another one the day it's lifted.

A bit like the crash diet where you lose the weight however it doesn't go back on of it's own accord it's due to slipping back into old habits of eating / drinking too much and not exercising enough.
Peoples actions are the key here and people need to start taking responsibility for them 

[Jimmyredcab]

So you mean they appear to work because they do actually work then 

If everyone stays hiding under their duvet then obviously lockdowns will work but how long can that be sustained, not everyone can work from home and the furlough payments are money that we don’t actually have. 

If they were so great why is it that the WHO are suggesting that lockdowns are not the solution. ??

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[Blackpool Rock]

If everyone stays hiding under their duvet then obviously lockdowns will work but how long can that be sustained, not everyone can work from home and the furlough payments are money that we don’t actually have. 

If they were so great why is it that the WHO are suggesting that lockdowns are not the solution. ??

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But if you read what the WHO are actually saying then you have answered your own question - Lockdowns should be treated as a last resort and not the primary means to control the virus.
In other words once things are too far fucked up you need to lock down but you should try to control in the 1st instance by masks; testing; distancing; cleaning etc
The reasons why the numbers are too high can be varied and a lot of our initial issues were down to lack of PPE and testing however we appear to now be on top of that at great expense due to lack of forward planning.
So that's down to those who make the decisions or not as the case may be but we now have the issue of Joe public not following the rules cause he can do what the fuck he likes, after all we fought for democracy etc etc etc and nobody is going to tell him what he can and can't do like a police state blah blah blah

[Jimmyredcab]

The reasons why the numbers are too high can be varied and a lot of our initial issues were down to lack of PPE and testing however we appear to now be on top of that at great expense due to lack of forward planning.

It’s not easy to plan for a major pandemic when the last one was in 1918, you can’t have 20 million masks at hand “just in case”.       

Anyway we are in danger of drifting into politics, your views are already well known. 

[mh]

I would rather not live in a police state

 

Says the man who has in the past advocated for extra-judicial killing of UK citizens on the street by the security services! Priceless. PMSL

[mh]

I'm not sure what 'evidence' airlines or other establishments will accept. Those receiving the vaccine now are just getting a reminder card for a future appointment for a second dose, easily fakeable. Perhaps they will issue something after the second dose but ministers have said they won't. The demand from those vaccinated for proof of it may change that.

Then there is the issue of which vaccine. It isn't clear if the Pfizer one will stop you catching it and passing it on, it is designed to stop you getting sick from it. Some countries may not accept that, they may mandate the more traditional vaccines. For travel I think it might be a combination of proof of vaccination plus a negative test close to boarding / border crossing time. For venues just a test at the door??

[Blackpool Rock]

It’s not easy to plan for a major pandemic when the last one was in 1918, you can’t have 20 million masks at hand “just in case”.       

Anyway we are in danger of drifting into politics, your views are already well known. 

What utter utter bollocks 

Not Mr current affairs are you -
SARS 2002 - 2004
Swine flu 2009
MERS 2012

Other countries such as South Korea took heed of the warning shot across it's bough and also took on board the fact they weren't prepared for the SARS epidemic.
As a result they built a proper testing / tracking system and stocks of vital PPE etc, so who has faired better then the UK without proper planning or South Korea with proper planning 

In terms of planning there was an exercise in 2016 to run through a pandemic situation and make sure we had everything in place, it recommended amongst other things to build stocks of PPE however that didn't happen so why waste money doing the exercise if you don't take on board the recommendations 

Stockpiling masks; gowns etc shouldn't be just in case anyway as they are common use items which will get used so it's just that you hold more stock then normal rather than being a separate spend which ends up being never used dead money.
Well that's if it's planned properly as you also need to rotate the stock, what little PPE reserves we had weren't rotated properly so half of it was old and useless, face masks with elastic straps which were perished and broke when you tried to use them 

To have built the stocks would have been a massive cost saving anyway, surely this hasn't passed you by completely 
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[Jimmyredcab]

What utter utter bollocks 

Not Mr current affairs are you -
SARS 2002 - 2004
Swine flu 2009
MERS 2012

 SARS was hardly a global pandemic, this country had 4 cases and I visited Thailand when SARS was around, no lockdowns, no forced masks, just heat seeking cameras at the airport.


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[lostandfound]

I'm not sure what 'evidence' airlines or other establishments will accept. Those receiving the vaccine now are just getting a reminder card for a future appointment for a second dose, easily fakeable. Perhaps they will issue something after the second dose but ministers have said they won't. The demand from those vaccinated for proof of it may change that.

Then there is the issue of which vaccine. It isn't clear if the Pfizer one will stop you catching it and passing it on, it is designed to stop you getting sick from it. Some countries may not accept that, they may mandate the more traditional vaccines. For travel I think it might be a combination of proof of vaccination plus a negative test close to boarding / border crossing time. For venues just a test at the door??

Covid vaccinated status could be added to Spine 2 the NHS national index of patients Summary Care Record - though to me it seems highly unlikely airlines would be allowed to query that info.

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Or it could be a digital certificate on a Covid phone app - though I don't know how they would effectively prevent fraud.

You can already ask your GP for a cert of health when travelling though it's a private consultation / advice and can be costly. Maybe that could be made available on the NHS - could be lots of work for GPs.

[Blackpool Rock]

 SARS was hardly a global pandemic, this country had 4 cases and I visited Thailand when SARS was around, no lockdowns, no forced masks, just heat seeking cameras at the airport.


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So how come you've provided a link which is titled "The SARS Pandemic", fuck me you couldn't make it up 

[chrishornx]

So how come you've provided a link which is titled "The SARS Pandemic", fuck me you couldn't make it up 

fair point BR

[winkywanky]

The first lockdown on 23rd March was essential because we had no idea what we were dealing with, the subsequent lockdowns have simply helped to ruin the economy.

Yes, of course they APPEAR to work because infections go down, as soon as they are lifted they increase again.

I like to compare it to going on a crash diet, the pounds will fall off but when the diet ends the weight will go back on.

Even the WHO questioned the effectiveness of lockdowns.   

They haven't done the economy any favours but then again, what are the ramifications of letting the virus rip? That would also fuck the economy, as well as all the associated grief and angst of the NHS becoming overrun, and relatives and loved-ones dying hideous deaths with no proper medical care.

It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and pick holes in govt strategy (and they have been pretty fucking useless in many respects) but just as no-one knew much about the virus when it first emerged, does anyone really know what would have happened without further Lockdowns? No. Much as I dislike politicians in general (most of them anyway) who would want the shit sandwich of having to bear the responsibilty of the result of no Lockdown, and just telling people to be careful?

With the lack of social cohesion from various quarters in society, as well as general fuckwitedness of so many, that could have gone seriously tits-up  .

[Strawberry]

If I understand correctly the current vaccine may not stop the transmission, it simply reduces likelihood of becoming symptomatic and or incredibly ill.

Is that right?

[winkywanky]

If I understand correctly the current vaccine may not stop the transmission, it simply reduces likelihood of becoming symptomatic and or incredibly ill.

Is that right?

Yes. They're not entirely sure yet. I don't know whether the same goes for other viruses and their related vaccines?

And of course, the other forthcoming Covid vaccines.

[Steelworker]

Suppression of virus by total lockdown is obviously hideously expensive. Twice or three times locking down is a disaster but taken to avoid mayhem in hospitals, morgues, and ultimately economy because they do reduce infections.

Very few countries managed well without a lockdown. These closed borders (then kept them tight), invested fast in capacity and testing and the crucial isolation part. Taiwan, Vietnam.

Some did one and hard like New Zealand, South Korea to some extent. Border control was stopped then made rigid. Testing and tracing plus again actually isolating carries on while doing disciplined infection control. South Korea are jumping on rises now getting all over a few hundred cases.

Countries like ours and many others failed at border control and continue to. Even when testing and tracing was in place, isolation enforcement wasn’t built in or invested in at all. Crazy as lockdowns are so much more expensive. The ill disciplined approach of such countries means the only effective way of buying time till vaccination (which is what it’s about) is to go in and out of hard lockdowns as when restrictions ease, the whole process isn’t good enough to stop it climbing again.

Economies are more fucked as you move down these categories. We’re in there with Spain, France, Italy, USA etc. We will be in and out of tough restrictions till all most 50’s and vulnerable are vaccinated as we cannot perform like the other countries.

I’m hoping the vaccines provide long lasting immunity and looking forward to the end of this shit in 6 months. 

[Waterhouse]

At least TWO years for the vaccine to be offered to everyone? I suspect it'll be by late Summer or Autumn 2021, unless you have evidence to the contrary?

So here’s where I think we need to be thoughtful, Fauci in the US said something that stuck on my mind... “In the history of the United States, the best that we’ve ever achieved is vaccinating 1% of the population per week.” 

So you can do the maths, to get to a 100% is around a 100 weeks i.e. around two years if it were one vaccination, but most of these vaccines are two-shot vaccines. So to cover a 100% of the US population it could take significantly longer and possibly even up to around four years.

Of course we have a smaller population over a much smaller land mass, and let’s say that we do it better, it’s still a long period of time to get everyone vaccinated (who wants it, that is).

Then of course there’s the $64,000 question... how long will the vaccine provide protection for and when will a person need to be re-vaccinated or have a booster?

(Sorry for delayed reply - haven’t logged in since last week so catching up).

[Blackpool Rock]

Suppression of virus by total lockdown is obviously hideously expensive. Twice or three times locking down is a disaster but taken to avoid mayhem in hospitals, morgues, and ultimately economy because they do reduce infections.

Very few countries managed well without a lockdown. These closed borders (then kept them tight), invested fast in capacity and testing and the crucial isolation part. Taiwan, Vietnam.

Some did one and hard like New Zealand, South Korea to some extent. Border control was stopped then made rigid. Testing and tracing plus again actually isolating carries on while doing disciplined infection control. South Korea are jumping on rises now getting all over a few hundred cases.

Countries like ours and many others failed at border control and continue to. Even when testing and tracing was in place, isolation enforcement wasn’t built in or invested in at all. Crazy as lockdowns are so much more expensive. The ill disciplined approach of such countries means the only effective way of buying time till vaccination (which is what it’s about) is to go in and out of hard lockdowns as when restrictions ease, the whole process isn’t good enough to stop it climbing again.

Economies are more fucked as you move down these categories. We’re in there with Spain, France, Italy, USA etc. We will be in and out of tough restrictions till all most 50’s and vulnerable are vaccinated as we cannot perform like the other countries.

I’m hoping the vaccines provide long lasting immunity and looking forward to the end of this shit in 6 months. 

Yes but the thing is that if you nip it in the bud before it gets out of control then the measures you have to take cost far less as they don't necessarily need to be as strict or as long.
It's a bit like controlling a fire, if you put it out when it's the size of a bonfire then no big deal but if you leave it until half the moor is on fire.........

[winkywanky]

So here’s where I think we need to be thoughtful, Fauci in the US said something that stuck on my mind... “In the history of the United States, the best that we’ve ever achieved is vaccinating 1% of the population per week.” 

So you can do the maths, to get to a 100% is around a 100 weeks i.e. around two years if it were one vaccination, but most of these vaccines are two-shot vaccines. So to cover a 100% of the US population it could take significantly longer and possibly even up to around four years.

Of course we have a smaller population over a much smaller land mass, and let’s say that we do it better, it’s still a long period of time to get everyone vaccinated (who wants it, that is).

Then of course there’s the $64,000 question... how long will the vaccine provide protection for and when will a person need to be re-vaccinated or have a booster?

(Sorry for delayed reply - haven’t logged in since last week so catching up).

Why are you even comparing us directly with the USA? The US has five times the population of the UK, and it has many more far-flung places. The UK is relatively very small, both in terms of total population and surface area, with a much smaller distance coast to coast. A much higher population density. It has a totally different healthcare system and a very different demographic. I never know why everyone is intent on comparing us with the US, it's meaningless. The only thing we have in common with the US over anywhere in Europe for example, is a shared language. Anyway, I digress.

Out of a total population of 66M we probably have around 30M people who need to be vaccinated to turn the situation around. At 1M per week that would be next July or so. Six days a week, 167,000 a day. Double that up for two doses of vaccine and that's 333,000 jabs a week. I don't know how that compares with the rate of vaccination for Flu for example, but of course there will be a much bigger effort with the Covid jabs for obvious reasons.

As for the length of immunity, there seems to be an opinion in the scientific community that a yearly jab of an updated vaccine will hopefully do the trick in beating Covid. So far there appears to be less mutation of the virus than there is with the Flu. It seems to be a fairly stationary target so far.

[winkywanky]

A quick Google suggests that normally around 15M people in the UK are vaccinated against flu. That probably happens over around 3mths?

So it would seem that 30M vaccinations (60M jabs) with a big and dedicated push doesn't appear too far fetched? Of course this depends on the other Covid vaccines which the UK has already pre-ordered, coming online, so there are no delays.

[timsussex]

BBC radio 4 vaccine program yesterday suggested that successful vaccination of each of the two top groups in the vaccine wanting list (ie care home residents and over 80s) will reduce deaths by one third (assuming total effectiveness)

The reduction in deaths becomes less pronounced as you work down the groups but 66% reduction from just  the top two groups is pretty dramatic

[gbyld87]

I very much doubt I will be offered the opportunity to be vaccinated on the NHS, so the time to deliver will likely impact me in a less direct way.  I believe the target originally was to reach all higher risk individuals by April (although that will slip given the manufacturing delays affecting the AZ jab).  What interests me most is if/when/how vaccine passports will take effect in the rollback of restrictions, or whether that will be seen as impossible to sell politically when the vaccine is not considered compulsory. 

[winkywanky]

I very much doubt I will be offered the opportunity to be vaccinated on the NHS, so the time to deliver will likely impact me in a less direct way.  I believe the target originally was to reach all higher risk individuals by April (although that will slip given the manufacturing delays affecting the AZ jab).  What interests me most is if/when/how vaccine passports will take effect in the rollback of restrictions, or whether that will be seen as impossible to sell politically when the vaccine is not considered compulsory.

When do you think the AZ vaccine will be rolled out then? I didn't think it was that far off TBH.

[timsussex]

Anyone remember that in 2019 one of the major problems facing all parties was how to pay for the care of an increasing elderly population ?

[Blackpool Rock]

I very much doubt I will be offered the opportunity to be vaccinated on the NHS, so the time to deliver will likely impact me in a less direct way.  I believe the target originally was to reach all higher risk individuals by April (although that will slip given the manufacturing delays affecting the AZ jab).  What interests me most is if/when/how vaccine passports will take effect in the rollback of restrictions, or whether that will be seen as impossible to sell politically when the vaccine is not considered compulsory.

Surely your not suggesting that we don't roll back the restrictions due to some people choosing not to take the vaccine 

My take is that once everyone has had the opportunity to have the jab then we should be looking at zero or close to zero restrictions, if someone chooses not to take it then tough shit, hopefully it will be Darwin theory in practice for some of the anti vaxers 
The ones I feel sorry for are those who can't take the jab for medical reasons who still end up getting CV19

[GingerNuts]

Anyone remember that in 2019 one of the major problems facing all parties was how to pay for the care of an increasing elderly population ?

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

[chrishornx]

So here’s where I think we need to be thoughtful, Fauci in the US said something that stuck on my mind... “In the history of the United States, the best that we’ve ever achieved is vaccinating 1% of the population per week.” 

that may be a figure to consider but when has the US ever had to vaccinate on such large scale what wa step disease/virus in the example he was quoting

think it is a different scenario now

[winkywanky]

Anyone remember that in 2019 one of the major problems facing all parties was how to pay for the care of an increasing elderly population ?

You're thinking death by Covid is a convenient solution to that?

[scutty brown]

So here’s where I think we need to be thoughtful, Fauci in the US said something that stuck on my mind... “In the history of the United States, the best that we’ve ever achieved is vaccinating 1% of the population per week.”  .............

Difficult to correlate between the UK and USA.
USA doesn't have the equivalent of an NHS providing community health care.
UK doesn't have the inner-city no-go areas of many of the US cities: the NHS still has a presence even on the roughest estates.
UK doesn't have anywhere like the Appalachian hillbilly states  where any form of government representatives aren't welcome, even public health

[Waterhouse]

Why are you even comparing us directly with the USA? The US has five times the population of the UK, and it has many more far-flung places. The UK is relatively very small, both in terms of total population and surface area, with a much smaller distance coast to coast. A much higher population density. It has a totally different healthcare system and a very different demographic. I never know why everyone is intent on comparing us with the US, it's meaningless. The only thing we have in common with the US over anywhere in Europe for example, is a shared language. Anyway, I digress.

Out of a total population of 66M we probably have around 30M people who need to be vaccinated to turn the situation around. At 1M per week that would be next July or so. Six days a week, 167,000 a day. Double that up for two doses of vaccine and that's 333,000 jabs a week. I don't know how that compares with the rate of vaccination for Flu for example, but of course there will be a much bigger effort with the Covid jabs for obvious reasons.

As for the length of immunity, there seems to be an opinion in the scientific community that a yearly jab of an updated vaccine will hopefully do the trick in beating Covid. So far there appears to be less mutation of the virus than there is with the Flu. It seems to be a fairly stationary target so far.

Read my post again, I already acknowledged we have a smaller population and over a much smaller area. And that we will most likely do things better than previously.  The point I raise is that it will take longer than six months to vaccinate the entire UK population.  The figures you are quoting are “ideal”, in reality that just will not happen. Anyway, the coming months will tell and in the next six months we will have a better idea and understanding of bith the roll-out and take-up.

[Waterhouse]

Difficult to correlate between the UK and USA.
USA doesn't have the equivalent of an NHS providing community health care.
UK doesn't have the inner-city no-go areas of many of the US cities: the NHS still has a presence even on the roughest estates.
UK doesn't have anywhere like the Appalachian hillbilly states  where any form of government representatives aren't welcome, even public health

For sure, and which is why I suspect it will be easier to implement here in the UK.  I just don’t believe thehype alluding to it all being said and done by spring summer.  Given it is a two-shot vaccination, there will be multiple occurrences where folk have one shot and then for whatever reason do not/ cannot get the second and so may have to go back to step one again. Who knows.

[gbyld87]

Surely your not suggesting that we don't roll back the restrictions due to some people choosing not to take the vaccine 

No im not suggesting that.  I'm speculating whether the card you receive after taking the vaccine could be used as a passport to certain services or venues for a period of time.

[gbyld87]

When do you think the AZ vaccine will be rolled out then? I didn't think it was that far off TBH.

The rollouts happening now.  It's just the delays to manufacture the doses will impact the pace.

[chrishornx]

The rollouts happening now.  It's just the delays to manufacture the doses will impact the pace.

really ? are you sure ? not seen anything about that

[GingerNuts]

really ? are you sure ? not seen anything about that

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[chrishornx]

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again Ginger I ask is he sure of his facts have you seen anything about it being rolled out I didn't think it had even been approved yet