Author Topic: Will anyone speak up for our pubs?  (Read 2766 times)

Offline latecomer

So, the Sturgeon has almost outlawed the consumption of alcohol in Scotland and now our government is once again dropping heavy hints about shutting down our pubs.  I know it's the usual panic reaction because they've no idea how to reduce the number of "cases" which their statistics tell them are climbing every day.  But is there any evidence that the virus is spread in pubs any more than elsewhere?  I find it very sinister and wonder why so many of our "leaders" appear happy at the prospect of our pubs perhaps closing for ever.  What exactly is the agenda?  Do pubs represent Britishness and British life too much for their liking?

Offline advent2016

A year ago if someone had said this time next  year you won't be able to visit pubs, restaurants, massage parlours, gyms, museums, galleries, shops etc. when you want, we wouldn't have believed them.

About the only places I've missed from above are massage places and museums. I've drank beer alone with friends using zoom and played pub quizzes online.  I haven't missed going to the pub as much as I thought I would, mainly because there isn't any proper football any more.

I expect if this ever gets back to normal or what the new normal is there will be large changes, pubs and other hospitality places will go bust, large investors will have the pick of places at knockdown prices and pick of people to work for them on poorer conditions and pay.

Unless a vaccine comes along  and they sort out track and trace like Germany it's only going to get worse before it gets better and many of of even poorer.

Offline george r

pubs have been fucked since smoking was banned..

Offline Adoniron

Pubs have been much better since smoking was banned.

Online Fuzzyduck

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I don't get the conspiracy theory. The purpose of pubs is primarily social and they used to be the focal point for many towns and villages. Not now: they've been on the decline for years as people take their social lives and drinking elsewhere. This was the very first article I found when I google searched for pubs on the wane.
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This virus is spread through social contact and pubs/restaurants are seen as non-essential services. You might think otherwise, but most people won't die if they don't go to a pub. Don't get me wrong, I'll be upset if they shut the pubs in London as it looks like they might start doing in the North, and the sad state of affairs is that many will shut permanently, particularly the independents.

Offline ulstersubbie

I don't get the conspiracy theory. The purpose of pubs is primarily social and they used to be the focal point for many towns and villages. Not now: they've been on the decline for years as people take their social lives and drinking elsewhere. This was the very first article I found when I google searched for pubs on the wane.
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This virus is spread through social contact and pubs/restaurants are seen as non-essential services. You might think otherwise, but most people won't die if they don't go to a pub. Don't get me wrong, I'll be upset if they shut the pubs in London as it looks like they might start doing in the North, and the sad state of affairs is that many will shut permanently, particularly the independents.

I think you're right fuzzy, particularly the independents which tend to be microbreweries serving real ale. 

Offline Steve2

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so nothing to do with the HUGE beer tax on pubs?

The Beer Duty you pay  works out at just over 54 pence a pint
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 05:21:32 pm by Steve2 »

Online RedKettle

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Offline Blackpool Rock

so nothing to do with the HUGE beer tax on pubs?

The Beer Duty you pay  works out at just over 54 pence a pint
Yes 54p on a 5% ABV beer however that still doesn't explain why a pint of mass produced beer will cost you £4-£5 obviously depending on regional variations etc (paid over £5 a pint about 10 years ago in a London hotel, thankfully it was on expenses  :drinks:)

Found this map of beer duty in Europe, Finland look to be No.1 followed by Ireland and then the UK in 3rd  :thumbsdown: But again looking at say Italy whose duty is about a third of the UK's I last paid €5.50 for Guinesss In Italy about 8 years ago and it was only fucking 500ml  :mad:
Again a few years back in Germany I don't remember the beer being cheap despite the duty being a twelfth of the UK's  :unknown:
This tends to suggest to me that some other European countries bars are ripping customers off more than ours
 
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Offline Blackpool Rock

pubs have been fucked since smoking was banned..
But the smart ones adapted and put in smoking shelters with heaters etc and garden areas, they also moved to doing more food where the margins are better and tried to attract families

Previously they said the enforcement of drink driving laws fucked the pubs, while all of these things will have led to some pubs closing there are always shock figures banded around about how 15% of pubs are closing each year but they neglect to say new ones are also opening or old ones reopening under new ownership

Offline winkywanky

So, the Sturgeon has almost outlawed the consumption of alcohol in Scotland and now our government is once again dropping heavy hints about shutting down our pubs.  I know it's the usual panic reaction because they've no idea how to reduce the number of "cases" which their statistics tell them are climbing every day.  But is there any evidence that the virus is spread in pubs any more than elsewhere?  I find it very sinister and wonder why so many of our "leaders" appear happy at the prospect of our pubs perhaps closing for ever.  What exactly is the agenda?  Do pubs represent Britishness and British life too much for their liking?


I do think a part of restrictions is to do with being seen to do something other than just telling people be careful now. That's inevitable.

But I'd also say this: even if it were known that the spread of Covid was happening more in people's homes than in pubs, then pubs are still a factor, and still something that's controllable by govt decree. It's much harder to control what people do in their own homes. Just wjat the figures are for comparison, I don't know  :unknown:.

The other thing to consider of course, is if you close pubs early or close them full stop, are people simply going to go home and be twice as reckless there?

I do think the govt are to a large extent, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Online threechilliman

Yes 54p on a 5% ABV beer however that still doesn't explain why a pint of mass produced beer will cost you £4-£5 obviously depending on regional variations etc (paid over £5 a pint about 10 years ago in a London hotel, thankfully it was on expenses  :drinks:)

Found this map of beer duty in Europe, Finland look to be No.1 followed by Ireland and then the UK in 3rd  :thumbsdown: But again looking at say Italy whose duty is about a third of the UK's I last paid €5.50 for Guinesss In Italy about 8 years ago and it was only fucking 500ml  :mad:
Again a few years back in Germany I don't remember the beer being cheap despite the duty being a twelfth of the UK's  :unknown:
This tends to suggest to me that some other European countries bars are ripping customers off more than ours
 
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On my travels around Europe, Dublin and Milan have been the most expensive places for a beer. You needed clearance from your bank manager to have a beer in Milan.....

Offline lostandfound

Yes 54p on a 5% ABV beer however that still doesn't explain why a pint of mass produced beer will cost you £4-£5 obviously depending on regional variations etc (paid over £5 a pint about 10 years ago in a London hotel, thankfully it was on expenses  :drinks:)

Found this map of beer duty in Europe, Finland look to be No.1 followed by Ireland and then the UK in 3rd  :thumbsdown: But again looking at say Italy whose duty is about a third of the UK's I last paid €5.50 for Guinesss In Italy about 8 years ago and it was only fucking 500ml  :mad:
Again a few years back in Germany I don't remember the beer being cheap despite the duty being a twelfth of the UK's  :unknown:
This tends to suggest to me that some other European countries bars are ripping customers off more than ours
 
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Think if you buy beer from retail in Germany it's cheap. If you go to a bar, well it's a high wage country so I would expect to pay the same as here. They do have some fantastic beers over there and it never tastes the same if you buy the same brand from the supermarket over here.

Spending some time over there people would by it by the crate from the petrol station to drink at home - and brewed locally it was blummin' lovely. I came back from Germany with two changed habits - I would never again drink instant coffee at home, and I would buy alcohol in bulk.

Offline Ali Katt

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pubs have been fucked since smoking was banned..
I think the "cafe culture" of staying open longer hours may have had an impact initially. Nobody piled in two extra rounds before midday closing.

There's over obvious factors: high rents, well loved landlords and landladies retiring, deprived areas having more stay at home drinkers, Wetherspoons and Yates undercutting them, crap deals with breweries which they're tired to. Tbh I think the off license trade particularly supermarkets selling cheap booze, 10 cans for the price of three pints in a pub. 

Smoking ban affected clubs as they all smelt of BO without the smoke masking it.

Offline Wadebridge

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Smoking ban affected clubs as they all smelt of BO without the smoke masking it.
:D :lol: :lol:
Thinking back to the initial few weeks of when the smoking ban in pubs was first introduced in England, the gossip amongst pubgoers was that their noses had started to detect some rather unusual.aromas. The consensus was that the fresher pub air had been 'polluted' by the aftermath of ale drinkers farts, which had been previously masked by smoke.
But the experience only lasted a few weeks, after which I suppose regular pubgoers began to be a bit more mindful of their Ps and Qs.
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Offline Digby232

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Wasn’t it a better country when all the pubs were shut!! No piss heads roaming the streets looking for trouble or mindless vandalism! Shut the places for good. The vast majority turn a blind eye to drug selling etc on their premises. They say they are responsible establishments etc. It’s all bollocks like most businesses. Just keep serving the piss head to make money and turn an eye to any crime etc.
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Offline bhudda

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On my travels around Europe, Dublin and Milan have been the most expensive places for a beer. You needed clearance from your bank manager to have a beer in Milan.....

make sure it's someone else's round if you ever find yourself in St Mark's square in Venice ... £34 for a pint and half of Peroni ... I don't even like Peroni  :angry:

Offline GreyDave

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So, the Sturgeon has almost outlawed the consumption of alcohol in Scotland and now our government is once again dropping heavy hints about shutting down our pubs.  I know it's the usual panic reaction because they've no idea how to reduce the number of "cases" which their statistics tell them are climbing every day.  But is there any evidence that the virus is spread in pubs any more than elsewhere?  I find it very sinister and wonder why so many of our "leaders" appear happy at the prospect of our pubs perhaps closing for ever.  What exactly is the agenda?  Do pubs represent Britishness and British life too much for their liking?

Nope :hi:   She has stopped the drinking of alcohol in PUBLIC ...and the sloopy behaviour from a few nob heads after we have all seen the scences on tele Manchester , Soho ect after the shutting ..

I do think there is a cultrual split change with people making these rules and the general populance who will do as they see fit...when I started drinking beer and had a flat stomach it was about 1.5 2 % proof now the beer is 5% plus and it gets people pissed quickly throw in the vodka chaser which in my yut was unheard of except the drunken Scot whiskey chaser and its no surprise...

Sorry to say Pubs and Bars have had there day in climate and unlike many in Europe they are not owned by the Landord (funny term really ) but by their property owners ( Landlord see  ;) )
And as such they are unable to cope with the present crap re rent wages etc... Myself I havent worked since  mid march and am drawing down my pension pot early Dishy Lishy did Fuck all for the likes of Self employed subcontractors and other small firms who are up shit creek with out a paddle. If the Pubs go some thing else will take place as Tim Martin of Weatherspoons 1st said you all might as well get a job in Tesco now we are finished..... :hi:

Offline advent2016

I've seen pubs in London charge gullible yanks £12 a pint and then locals £4. Norway, Denmark and Sweden were the most expensive in my experience. The place I was working had a fully stocked fridge that was full when the exercise started and empty when it finished.

Online threechilliman

make sure it's someone else's round if you ever find yourself in St Mark's square in Venice ... £34 for a pint and half of Peroni ... I don't even like Peroni  :angry:

Fuck me. I do remember paying 8 quid or so for a pint near the Rialto..... about 17 years ago.

Offline GreyDave

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Fuck me. I do remember paying 8 quid or so for a pint near the Rialto..... about 17 years ago.

Ok i think I can top that .... :(  20 years ago ... Marmariss Marina ( flash oudoor cafe Turkey) lookin at boats paid equavalente to 16 quid two tiny coffees   :hi:

Not bad I hear you thinking as on St Marks Square its more ( But there is a band playing FFS too at that price )

As the waiter put the cups down he said Nestcafe Sir!   ..... :scare: :scare:

it was and it was shite every one there got it others who have been have told me same story , :angry: :angry: it was way they said  Nescafe and smiled that pissed me off :diablo:

Offline Digby232

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So why did you all pay these inflated prices. Just don’t buy it !! No one forces you to pay these prices and if your stupid enough to pay it good luck to the establishment for getting it!
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Offline Gordon Bennett

Makes me laugh how they say "the hospitality industry" when they're refering to piss smelling boozers that sell ale, misery and ill-health to folk. Yeah there are some nice civilised establishments dotted about but the vast majority are manky dubious places that are rapidly becoming an anachronism in these times.

Online daviemac

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So why did you all pay these inflated prices. Just don’t buy it !! No one forces you to pay these prices and if your stupid enough to pay it good luck to the establishment for getting it!
Possibly because that is all that was available at the time in that particular location.

It's a bit like the members on here who spend their hard earned money on escorts then relay their experiences by way of reviews to help others. Then there are those who don't appear to punt or if they do they don't bother posting reviews, preferring to leech off others.


Offline GreyDave

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Makes me laugh how they say "the hospitality industry" when they're refering to piss smelling boozers that sell ale, misery and ill-health to folk. Yeah there are some nice civilised establishments dotted about but the vast majority are manky dubious places that are rapidly becoming an anachronism in these times.

Spot on Sir  :drinks: :drinks: .... As a result of no work and dwindilly income and the promise on horizon a hell of a long way off :(  Ive been exrta carefull I now get beer from Aldi and Lidli its 1.29 as aposed to Sainsburys 2.50 made a huge diffrence to me that pint in a Pub would be 4.50 same with the food I went to Asda and thought I was in Waitrose the prices were higher than A & L  :D :D

Offline joninbristol

"Do pubs represent Britishness and British life too much for their liking?"
Unfortunately yes. We're seen as a nation of uncontrollable piss heads by many in other nations, precisely because we as a society seem addicted to the abuse of alcohol. It's a powerful, addictive drug. Ah yes, but of course, we raise a LOAD of tax from it. So that kind of shoots your argument in the foot, as politicians like money, even if it's from state permitted drug addicts. It allows them to do things that help them keep their jobs, cynical b'stards that many of them are.

But post-Brexit we need to get our act together individually and collectively. We make next to nothing. We're a service society, like it or not. Have been for years. With a few exceptions on quality products, there's no going back, unless you like the idea of reverting to 60p per hour wages to compete with less labour-expensive countries?

And being that means having your brain in good order, not half stewed by whatever six pints of local brew you quaffed down over lunch. Those days are over. For those who think it's not, good luck keeping / getting your next job. Employers simply don't want piss heads on their books any more, they cost them money. So people drink less and control their drinking, particularly over lunch. That impacts pub profits and the number that can afford to stay open.

But the pubs problem goes back even further than that. The limit on blood alcohol whilst driving was a major factor closing down country pubs, which is why so many diversified and offer meals, compared to town pubs. Customers simply can't risk it, so at least 25% of any family car (50% of adults = the drinkers in the vehicle) aren't going to be knocking back alcohol if they're behind the wheel.

And it goes back still further. Heavy drinking's less tolerated by society and the workplace, and the workplace itself has shifted from manufacturing sectors where you sweated buckets all day and needed to down six pints of mild to get yourself rehydrated (mining, steel mills, docks) to non-manufacturing jobs. Brewers were consolidating even in the 1960s and 1970s and closing down unprofitable pubs in areas where heavy labouring jobs no longer existed.

So yes, the pandemic's caused pubs problems, but it goes back way, way further, arguably to 1945 and the end of the British Empire, and maybe even the turn of the 19th/20th centuries, where we ceased to be the predominant manufacturing hub of the world. That, and we've got two generations who are better educated about personal health, so openly avoid heavy drinking, as they recognise that alcohol is a highly addictive drug which quickly causes behaviour problems. It's only the older generations that are dying out or heading for retirement that think it's still acceptable to get regularly tanked up and damage your health, the NHS and sometimes the very lives of those around you.

Times change.


« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 05:20:58 pm by joninbristol »

Offline Blackpool Rock

So why did you all pay these inflated prices. Just don’t buy it !! No one forces you to pay these prices and if your stupid enough to pay it good luck to the establishment for getting it!
I'm sure that in many cases people didn't actually know how much it was until they got the bill, I mean if you sit down for a coffee you'd expect it to be around €3-4 but a rip off price would be €7-8 however you could live with that but nobody would expect it to be €20

Offline Chorley

Greene King have announced 800 job losses.   :(
 If a massive brewery chain like that that is binning staff then surely your average freehold local is fucked?  :unknown:

Offline Adoniron

Greene King have announced 800 job losses.   :(
 If a massive brewery chain like that that is binning staff then surely your average freehold local is fucked?  :unknown:

Most locals are not free houses. They are tied to pubcos paying extortionate rent and over the odds for their stock. The entire business model is fucked and has been before covid or lockdown.

Offline Chorley

Most locals are not free houses. They are tied to pubcos paying extortionate rent and over the odds for their stock. The entire business model is fucked and has been before covid or lockdown.
Really? That is fucking madness  :dash:

Offline bhudda

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So why did you all pay these inflated prices. Just don’t buy it !! No one forces you to pay these prices and if your stupid enough to pay it good luck to the establishment for getting it!

Im assuming you arent married?

The mrs likes to tell her chums what a lovely time she had sipping beer in st marks square of course!

Offline lostandfound

Most locals are not free houses. They are tied to pubcos paying extortionate rent and over the odds for their stock. The entire business model is fucked and has been before covid or lockdown.

Punch pubs the same.

GK is owned by an off shore capital fund. So ultimately that hopefully might be where the pain is felt - except that all the minimum wage bar staff and overworked managers may struggle to pay their bills - though there's a good chance those jobs / something equivalent will become available once vaccine(s) are available. Not much comfort to those 800 souls though.

Offline Blackpool Rock

Greene King have announced 800 job losses.   :(
 If a massive brewery chain like that that is binning staff then surely your average freehold local is fucked?  :unknown:
Someone was on the local news from JW Lees but in all fairness if their brewery and pubs closed it would do beer drinkers a favour  :vomit:

Online PatMacGroin

I think the "cafe culture" of staying open longer hours may have had an impact initially. Nobody piled in two extra rounds before midday closing.

There's over obvious factors: high rents, well loved landlords and landladies retiring, deprived areas having more stay at home drinkers, Wetherspoons and Yates undercutting them, crap deals with breweries which they're tired to. Tbh I think the off license trade particularly supermarkets selling cheap booze, 10 cans for the price of three pints in a pub. 

Smoking ban affected clubs as they all smelt of BO without the smoke masking it.

A lot of well observed points there.

I think the role of "landlords/ladies" is not recognised as much as it should be. When people talk about the local pub being the heart of the community they forget how much of that was the effect of the people running the pub. They didn't just pour pints, they facilitated that community spirit. By engaging with their customers, getting to know them and encouraging them to get to know each other.

Very few pubs with that atmosphere in London anymore. Even if it's not a big chain like Weatherspoon's or Fullers, the pubs that seem independent are often also small chains of 3 or 4 pubs. The owners see them as an investment and have little to do with the day-to-day running. Many of them are just sitting on the property until the day they can be cashed in by being converted into flats. They hire in young managers and bar staff on a rotating door basis. Most of them are pleasant enough, but they believe their job is just about exchanging drinks for cash, without having any interest in the customer. They forget all about the hospitality aspect.

Offline Adoniron

Really? That is fucking madness  :dash:

It goes back to the 70s when the government made the big six breweries sell off most of their pubs on competition grounds. And so the pubcos were born. They bought the pubs. They are just property companies really. They buy beer from the breweries and sell it to their licensees at a profit.

Offline ulstersubbie

Someone was on the local news from JW Lees but in all fairness if their brewery and pubs closed it would do beer drinkers a favour  :vomit:

Yes Lees beer is terrible, even Holt's tastes better!!

Offline Malvolio

A lot of well observed points there.

I think the role of "landlords/ladies" is not recognised as much as it should be. When people talk about the local pub being the heart of the community they forget how much of that was the effect of the people running the pub. They didn't just pour pints, they facilitated that community spirit. By engaging with their customers, getting to know them and encouraging them to get to know each other.

Very few pubs with that atmosphere in London anymore. Even if it's not a big chain like Weatherspoon's or Fullers, the pubs that seem independent are often also small chains of 3 or 4 pubs. The owners see them as an investment and have little to do with the day-to-day running. Many of them are just sitting on the property until the day they can be cashed in by being converted into flats. They hire in young managers and bar staff on a rotating door basis. Most of them are pleasant enough, but they believe their job is just about exchanging drinks for cash, without having any interest in the customer. They forget all about the hospitality aspect.

I'd suggest you visit a micropub if you want community spirit and conversation.

Online PatMacGroin

I'd suggest you visit a micropub if you want community spirit and conversation.

A couple of years ago I went to a place in Liverpool that called itself a micropub. The beer tasted like it was made with one of those homebrew kits, with lots of sediment and it was warm. There have been a few that opened locally, but the Liverpool experience put me off. Maybe I'll give them another chance, if they're still operating.

Offline Marmalade

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  But is there any evidence that the virus is spread in pubs any more than elsewhere?

Yeah there is actually. I don’t still have the medical paper that showed the stats but mist people testing positive had been visiting pubs or restaurants.

Common sense really, even though unpopular. Sod all masks. Absolute minimum social distancing. Snd often either no fresh air to dilute things or else air conditioning circulating it from one person to another ( studies were done on that early on.)

Offline Marmalade

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In addition, if you go to the website, Sturgeon’s lot have published the scientific evidence they’ve used.

Offline MilleMiglia

On my travels around Europe, Dublin and Milan have been the most expensive places for a beer. You needed clearance from your bank manager to have a beer in Milan.....

Tell me about it - €36 for a large Jack Daniels and a white wine Spritz at a bar in the Galleria Vittorio Emanuele II.

Offline MilleMiglia

make sure it's someone else's round if you ever find yourself in St Mark's square in Venice ... £34 for a pint and half of Peroni ... I don't even like Peroni  :angry:

A few years back, I went there for a week, and stayed in a hotel near the San Marco. I had dinner in the hotel on two nights, and had the best bottle of white and the best bottle of sparkling that I've ever had; both Italian and under €50. That said, mid range French wines in the same hotel were prohibitively expensive.

Never did see the dwarf in the red mac.......

Offline Ali Katt

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Someone was on the local news from JW Lees but in all fairness if their brewery and pubs closed it would do beer drinkers a favour  :vomit:
JW Lees make MPA which is based off an early Boddingtons recipe, which I quite like.

Offline Chorley

make sure it's someone else's round if you ever find yourself in St Mark's square in Venice ... £34 for a pint and half of Peroni ... I don't even like Peroni  :angry:
A mate of mine went to Tokyo on business a few years back and was taken out for dinner by the firms boss. They went to a sushi restaurant and he was given a bottle of beer to drink.................at a cost of £50!  :scare: Luckliy he want paying the bill.

Online Doc Holliday

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Yeah there is actually. I don’t still have the medical paper that showed the stats but mist people testing positive had been visiting pubs or restaurants.

Common sense really, even though unpopular. Sod all masks. Absolute minimum social distancing. Snd often either no fresh air to dilute things or else air conditioning circulating it from one person to another ( studies were done on that early on.)

This is the document that Whitty presented to MPs. You need to scroll to the last page. It has been heavily criticised though and I can see why to some degree.

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I was asked by a long standing friend would owns a restaurant would I assist him with his Covid19 protocol prior to opening up early July. I did and was reasonably happy when I attended for a complimentary meal that first week. Having returned in August I noticed some the tables had been moved closer and staff were not wearing masks so I left.

Also I was asked would I advise his sister who ran a pub? Sorry I said but impossible to make a pub safe (indoors especially) for the reasons Marmalade has listed. Alcohol and cross infection control just don't go together in the UK.

 

Offline NIK

Never thought I'd say this, as pubs have been my life blood, but I doubt I will visit one again. Not been since February and, like prossying which I haven't done for over two years, I haven't missed them.

Thought about it on a nice sunny afternoon about three weeks ago, but both the local Wetherspoons and another pub I use all had several people queuing outside and members of staff checking them off with a clipboard like some totalitarian regime. Fuck that for a pint!
I can get all the booze I want at home for a quarter of the price anyway.

Offline king tarzan

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Enjoyment and fun equals = criminals...(nowadays)
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Offline bhudda

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One reason for shutting pubs perhaps ....

I know of a young man in the north west of england ... a region currently under special measures cos of high infection rates.

Despite (or perhaps because of) this he and his chums decided a lads weekend in london was called for. All was arranged only for his mother, father and sister (who he lives with) to go down with corona type symptoms 2 days before he was due to leave. Sister went for a test but hadnt got the results on the friday when he and chums set off. Made the most of the available nightlife on the friday. Sister got the results of her test on saturday ... positive. Mother phoned and told him. He and chums went out on the piss in london again on saturday. He went home on sunday and went down with corona virus symptoms on monday.

It is impossible to say how many he infected while in london ... but hard to imagine it was zero.

Some will say "well he shouldnt have behaved that way!" ... and few would disagree ... but the fact is he is far from unique, who knows how many hundreds or thousands or even millions of other people are behaving the same way. If the pubs were shut (and god knows i like pubs as much as anyone) then he and his chums would probably have stayed at home.

Offline Marmalade

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Enjoyment and fun equals = criminals...(nowadays)

Think of it like food. It’s good to enjoy our food. But appropriately. Too much makes a person ill. It also makes them shit and fart a lot.

Offline Ali Katt

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A lot of well observed points there.

I think the role of "landlords/ladies" is not recognised as much as it should be. When people talk about the local pub being the heart of the community they forget how much of that was the effect of the people running the pub. They didn't just pour pints, they facilitated that community spirit. By engaging with their customers, getting to know them and encouraging them to get to know each other.

Very few pubs with that atmosphere in London anymore. Even if it's not a big chain like Weatherspoon's or Fullers, the pubs that seem independent are often also small chains of 3 or 4 pubs. The owners see them as an investment and have little to do with the day-to-day running. Many of them are just sitting on the property until the day they can be cashed in by being converted into flats. They hire in young managers and bar staff on a rotating door basis. Most of them are pleasant enough, but they believe their job is just about exchanging drinks for cash, without having any interest in the customer. They forget all about the hospitality aspect.
A lot of what brought the community together, no longer exists. The town hall, the church, pub or working man's club and school. Many of these have closed and with factories and coal mines closing so have many wmcs and pubs. Tower blocks are a huge problem as well, stacking people on top of each other.