Nordic Model

[Matium]

They're at it again, pushing the Nordic model:

External Link/Members Only

Note the unsubstantiated statements taken as fact: "the thousands of women trafficked as prostitutes" - even though a police investigation was unable to find those thousands of women.

By constantly bringing up the Nordic Model, they hope to enact it in Britain eventually.

[vorian]

They're at it again, pushing the Nordic model:

External Link/Members Only

Note the unsubstantiated statements taken as fact: "the thousands of women trafficked as prostitutes" - even though a police investigation was unable to find those thousands of women.

By constantly bringing up the Nordic Model, they hope to enact it in Britain eventually.

Eventually something like this will come in. Yes parlours and maybe parties will become higher risk but the indie scene imo will not dramatically change,  except a possible reduction in demand which may put downward pressure on prices. 

[Jimmyredcab]

Eventually something like this will come in.

I wonder if it will be as successful as the war on drugs.   

[Matium]

I think the entire industry, both punters and prostitutes, have to resign themselves to the fact that there is a possibility that the Nordic Model will be introduced, if not now then probably within 5 - 10 years and not just in Britain but all across the EU.

I don't think prices will go down, rather they'll go up as the industry will be clandestine and people will be furtive.

[Curious6705]

They're at it again, pushing the Nordic model:

External Link/Members Only

Note the unsubstantiated statements taken as fact: "the thousands of women trafficked as prostitutes" - even though a police investigation was unable to find those thousands of women.

By constantly bringing up the Nordic Model, they hope to enact it in Britain eventually.

Caroline Spelman is another god botherer - a patron of the Conservative Christian Fellowship it seems. A moral crusader I guess.

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[Jimmyredcab]

I think the entire industry, both punters and prostitutes, have to resign themselves to the fact that there is a possibility that the Nordic Model will be introduced, if not now then probably within 5 - 10 years and not just in Britain but all across the EU.

Possibly, but it will be ignored by the vast majority of punters and pro$$ies.

If it clears out the thousands of pimped Romanians I would support it.

[SirFrank]

I always get disappointed when I open threads like these. I expect to see some blonde fuck bunny not some Viking jurisprudence model

[som2083]

Caroline Spelman is another god botherer - a patron of the Conservative Christian Fellowship it seems. A moral crusader I guess.

External Link/Members Only

Why don't criminalise Caroline Spelman first

Caroline Spelman, another politician who was involved in an expenses investigation.
[
Caroline Spelman faces questions over second home expenses
Shadow communities secretary claimed £40,000 for second home, while husband claimed it was main home when he stood for European parliament
]

External Link/Members Only

[wristjob]

Funny this. It's about stopping trafficking yeah - so surely focussing police on the punter pushes you 1 step further away from the trafficker (of which there are probably 4 in the UK). Now as with anything it makes sense to have lots more pairs of eyes checking out for traficked women, and who better than punters?

The majority of punters are normal guys who would likely walk straight out if faced with a girl they thought ws trafficked and then report it. Making it illegal means no sane punter would report such a thing and probably bias those who do punt into the more dodgy types as more respectable people quit.

What they should do is offer every punter in UKP a £10k allowance to help seek out trafficked girls - much cheaper than any other solution and I'm sure we'd be more successful finding them than any other method

[Curious6705]

Why don't criminalise Caroline Spelman first

Caroline Spelman, another politician who was involved in an expenses investigation.
[
Caroline Spelman faces questions over second home expenses
Shadow communities secretary claimed £40,000 for second home, while husband claimed it was main home when he stood for European parliament
]

External Link/Members Only

Yes - and according to that Wikipedia article she also paid her nanny from her parliamentary staffing allowance.

Shades of McShane. These people have such integrity. 

[Curious6705]

I always get disappointed when I open threads like these. I expect to see some blonde fuck bunny not some Viking jurisprudence model

Now you know how I feel when I open one of those cunt threads.

[som2083]

She's (Caroline Spelman) Such A Hypocrite!!!

[jcdmj12]

This caught my eye:

"One specific issue which has been raised with me is the fact that the Swedish model largely depends upon telephone intercept evidence.

"Telephone intercepts can be obtained by an officer more or less the equivalent of a police superintendent in Sweden. In Northern Ireland such telephone intercepts would have to be signed by the secretary of state and I think that is a very different situation."

I am so glad I don't live in Sweden. It sounds almost Stalinist.    One things for certain, the Germans would never put up with such a thing. They are very touchy about communications privacy (somewhat understandably).

[Lambada]

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That old chestnut. Because everybody knows how well prohibition works when it comes to drugs and alcohol.

[CBPaul]

Great, the Tories have found a Harman equivalent, they need a replacement female and we have a general election next year. Here starts the game of how they will clean up 'broken Britain'.

At the end of the day they haven't got a fucking clue, these figures are always based on rough estimates and they always automatically leap to trafficking, slavery, grooming and street work. They have had some success with purges against the street scene but haven't eradicated it and use heavy tactics. I find the comments about intercepting calls between prossie and client worrying but would hope that there would be a general kick back against that.

Why not show some creativity and do something against trafficking, grooming etc and let the prossie and punters who are doing thing willingly get on with it, rather than the usual all encompassing policy. That would require some knowledge and effort though. They never mention the German or Dutch models either do they.

[vorian]

It is nothing to do with the protection of anyone,  simply a way of scoring cheap political points with the uneducated public and the reactive media. Much in the same way drugs are discussed in a childish manner.

[Lambada]

Another Tory mouthpiece attempting to win the support of Daily Mail-reading Little Englanders who swallow everything they read in the paper. Nothing new here 

[LanceVance]

I have said it before and will say it again, the upper middle class women in politics who are pushing this will have NEVER spoken to a WG to hear her side of the story. They will have just assumed she was 'forced' or had a bad upbringing to make her go in to the industry. It sums up the arrogance of the  feminazis that they don't even tolerate women who do not fit their own 'nice', white, middle class bubble.

[latecomer]

Clearly the Conservatives answer to Harperson.

[Barry Shipton]

I have said it before and will say it again, the upper middle class women in politics who are pushing this will have NEVER spoken to a WG to hear her side of the story. They will have just assumed she was 'forced' or had a bad upbringing to make her go in to the industry. It sums up the arrogance of the  feminazis that they don't even tolerate women who do not fit their own 'nice', white, middle class bubble.

Absolutely agree Lance, maybe they should speak to their 'nice', white, middle class husbands who are very likely to have spoken to a few WGs as they are probably their main customer base!

[Jimmyredcab]

Another Tory mouthpiece attempting to win the support of Daily Mail-reading Little Englanders who swallow everything they read in the paper. Nothing new here 

One slight problem with your statement ------------------ that article is from the Guardian.     

I am a Daily Mail reading Little Englander.     

[LanceVance]

I am a Daily Mail reading Little Englander.     

It doesn't matter Jimmy, Paul Dacre is cynical enough to sniff out any opportunity to shift more papers, so don't be surprised if a 'Ban this filth to fix Broken Britain' style campaign gets underway at some point to bring the industry under.

[Aspen]

This caught my eye:

I am so glad I don't live in Sweden. It sounds almost Stalinist.    One things for certain, the Germans would never put up with such a thing. They are very touchy about communications privacy (somewhat understandably).

You don't have to go back too far in history to find the Germans having put up with laws that were even worse than Sweden is now - lol

[Aspen]

They're at it again, pushing the Nordic model:

External Link/Members Only

Note the unsubstantiated statements taken as fact: "the thousands of women trafficked as prostitutes" - even though a police investigation was unable to find those thousands of women.

By constantly bringing up the Nordic Model, they hope to enact it in Britain eventually.

I don't quite get the logic of it.

Are they saying that women are forced in prostitution because men are willing to pay for it? And it is the men willing to pay for it that are the source of the whole 'problem'?

That is perverse. And interesting that it's mainly women who promote this idea. More evidence that the female brain doesn't have much logic about it. Nor do they have much idea about the opposite gender - no surprise there.

If paid sex wasn't available, then there wouldn't be any consumers. So the logical thing is to go for the source of availability. Especially because that is where the money is being made i.e. incentive. So why criminalise the consumers and not the suppliers. That's just weird.

If nothing else it is quite literally sex discrimination.

I wonder what would happen if they handled the illegal drug trade the same way. Criminalise the addicts and give the dealers complete free rein. These people who come up with ideas like that have no brain.

The real answer is to make sex available to whoever wants it, for free.

[vorian]

The real answer is to make sex available to whoever wants it, for free.

Would'nt get much work done in that case

[Aspen]

She's sexist. Blaming men for everything.

Probably a rabid feminist. Make you wanna puke don't they.

[Curious6705]

You don't have to go back too far in history to find the Germans having put up with laws that were even worse than Sweden is now - lol

That's why proponents of the Nordic Model are referred to as Feminazis.

But in our lifetimes Germany has taken the best and most practical approach to paid sex of any EU country.

[Taggart]

I wrote a long reply to the paper website feature, making the point not all women are on drugs, pimped or trafficked, and many choose that lifestyle, work 10-12 hours a week and walk away with £50k a year plus.

I also raised the issue of the difference of sex in swingers clubs, where money apparently doesnt change hands, and also questioned where Ms Spelman saw in the wider context women cavorting on web cams for payment?

It was a strong and controversial reply, which their mods deleted. Barstewards.

[vorian]

I wrote a long reply to the paper website feature, making the point not all women are on drugs, pimped or trafficked, and many choose that lifestyle, work 10-12 hours a week and walk away with £50k a year plus.

I also raised the issue of the difference of sex in swingers clubs, where money apparently doesnt change hands, and also questioned where Ms Spelman saw in the wider context women cavorting on web cams for payment?

It was a strong and controversial reply, which their mods deleted. Barstewards.

Would you mind posting it here, I would be interested in your points 

[SirFrank]

Would you mind posting it here, I would be interested in your points 

Me too. I did post previously about this on another thread but agree completely with the points. Criminalising prostitution will simply drive it underground and put women more at risk

[ulander]

Another unwelcome consequence of this legislation, if it is introduced, is that punters will suddenly become sitting ducks for blackmail.  Of course, they are potentially vulnerable now - greedy prostitute discovers where punter lives and that he is married, and threatens disclosure to the wife.  In practice this is pretty unlikely.  Why would a prostitute want to kill the goose that is laying golden eggs?  I suppose high profile celebrities are marginally more vulnerable to blackmail now, if they use prostitutes.  But if this Nordic model is introduced where to punt is to break the law, many a prostitute and/or her pimp will be unable to resist the temptation to threaten disclosure to the police unless money is handed over.  The consequences of being turned over to the law could be horrendous.  If found guilty, a substantial fine, no doubt or even prison.  The marriage destroyed.  Possible loss of job.  Many a punter, faced with this situation, will pay up rather than face the consequences of exposure.  Laws which facilitate or encourage crime are bad laws.  Blackmail is a crime.  And this would be a bad law.

[Siadwel]

The former Tory cabinet minister Caroline Spelman has called for the UK to consider criminalising the purchase of sex and urged more male politicians to enter a public debate about the reform of prostitution laws.


Yeah, fucking Good Luck with that, love.

Barking La-La, is my considered opinion.

[DJ Fruit Polo]

Can anyone here think of anything other than sex that would only be illegal because you've paid for it?

[vorian]

Can anyone here think of anything other than sex that would only be illegal because you've paid for it?

Consuming alcohol on licensed premises, outside of permitted hours. At least that's how the law used to be.

[DJ Fruit Polo]

Consuming alcohol on licensed premises, outside of permitted hours. At least that's how the law used to be.

Yes, I'm sure that's still the case - so lock-ins are kind of okay as long as they're private parties with no money changing hands. 

[vorian]

Yes, I'm sure that's still the case - so lock-ins are kind of okay as long as they're private parties with no money changing hands.

That's how it used to be for sure, it was money changing hands that made the act illegal, not the act itself.

[Aspen]

Another unwelcome consequence of this legislation, if it is introduced, is that punters will suddenly become sitting ducks for blackmail.  Of course, they are potentially vulnerable now - greedy prostitute discovers where punter lives and that he is married, and threatens disclosure to the wife.  In practice this is pretty unlikely.  Why would a prostitute want to kill the goose that is laying golden eggs?  I suppose high profile celebrities are marginally more vulnerable to blackmail now, if they use prostitutes.  But if this Nordic model is introduced where to punt is to break the law, many a prostitute and/or her pimp will be unable to resist the temptation to threaten disclosure to the police unless money is handed over.  The consequences of being turned over to the law could be horrendous.  If found guilty, a substantial fine, no doubt or even prison.  The marriage destroyed.  Possible loss of job.  Many a punter, faced with this situation, will pay up rather than face the consequences of exposure.  Laws which facilitate or encourage crime are bad laws.  Blackmail is a crime.  And this would be a bad law.

I don't think the proponents of this really care whether people might be blackmailed or not. To them it's worse than blackmail and they could even see the threat of it as a useful and deterrent side effect.

What's bad about it is criminalising the punters but not the prostitutes. That's outright discrimination. Otherwise I don't really care what they do. We're already treated like criminals as it is, both providers and users. We have to hang our heads in shame if/when we are found out. In the US everyone is criminalised (apart from greedy Vegas), and it doesn't seem to make much difference to the trade. I don't think it would make any difference here, apart from a few high profile outings.

[Aspen]

The former Tory cabinet minister Caroline Spelman has called for the UK to consider criminalising the purchase of sex and urged more male politicians to enter a public debate about the reform of prostitution laws.


Yeah, fucking Good Luck with that, love.

Barking La-La, is my considered opinion.

Yeah, well the men with money will always quietly quash it, because as a section of society they are at it more than any other.

I'm all for equality, but this does go to show that if you give women too much power they come up with some crackpot ideas. Imagine the havoc if parliament had a majority of females as MP's. Would increase the male suicide rate even more than it is already, that's for sure.
 

[jcdmj12]

You don't have to go back too far in history to find the Germans having put up with laws that were even worse than Sweden is now - lol

That was sort of my point... Ever since the wall came down, they are very toucy about communications privacy due to what happened under Honneker.

The difference between Sweden and the DDR is that the fucking swedes vote for this shit.

[jcdmj12]

Yeah, well the men with money will always quietly quash it, because as a section of society they are at it more than any other.

I'm all for equality, but this does go to show that if you give women too much power they come up with some crackpot ideas. Imagine the havoc if parliament had a majority of females as MP's. Would increase the male suicide rate even more than it is already, that's for sure.

If you give anyone too much power they go mental.  Men get obsessed with bombing things, women get obsessed with banning things.

[LanceVance]

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Joan Smith's arrogance in this debate summed up what I said upthread.