Married punters, why do we never learn?

[sgc]

If you can stay friends then that is something, surely?  And you stay married until you divorce, which is painful.
At some stage sex will cease to be important anyway, might as well have a friend that shares memories.

Unless you have been married to someone long term it is difficult to explain. You grow together as a couple, share lots of fond memories and just sort of get used to each other. Divorce is horrible and the most painful thing I have experienced in my life and I wish it no man.

[MrMatrix]

With separation the grass is rarely greener on the other side of the hill. More often you are swapping one set of problems for another. Its best to remain good friends when you have invested so many years.

[MrMatrix]

It sounds like you did the right thing MrM, i’m married to a mind fuck too.... I haven’t had any sex at home for 6 years and I don’t intend to again. Like you, I put me first now. I no longer ask or beg or plead for sex, I don’t desire her at all.

I hope you really enjoy your first punt in a while, pick someone you know will look after you and have fun - you deserve it 

We both deserve it TT. I hope to see someone I've had on my HL for sometime.
Just hope shes online the day I need

[paper7]

Quite an appropriate euphemism, when you think what he was actually doing with a pussy!

Yeah; all right, I'll get me coat!!

I'll let you off on that one HA, after all, it wasn't his mate's 'cat' he was feeding!

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Unless you have been married to someone long term it is difficult to explain. You grow together as a couple, share lots of fond memories and just sort of get used to each other. Divorce is horrible and the most painful thing I have experienced in my life and I wish it no man.

Yes it was painfull - in the pocket! a lot of ££££££'s and then some:-(

[paper7]

I've been through similar process in years gone by. Same discussions. And all the explanations were totally conflicting. In the end I gave up listening to this nonsense and took control of my sex life.

Even after all these years of punting, it still doesn't really sit right. But it is what it is now.

You did the right thing MM.

Resentment built up until between the missus & I until we had a massive argument. When I explained that I NEEDED intimacy for my own sanity, having been through hell with my health by catching a virus (won't bore you with the details) and STILL suffering from the 'fall-out' 20 years later, I explained that it was the only thing that kept me from completely losing my sanity & dealing with the absolute f****** loneliness and rejection I was feeling.

All I got by way of an apology was, and I quote, "Sorry" and she returned her attention back to her mobile-phone.

I was totally fed up with the 'mind-fuck' attitude and resolved then that I wasn't begging, or pleading for sex, I just wish I was mobile enough and that this CoVID-19 would do one because I have got my eye on a WG, she knows it, but she will not move until she feels it's safe to do so, and quite simply I don't blame her!

[mace-window]

Sex with my OH pretty much stopped years ago. I got over it, lots of reasons to stay together and of course I have my hobby. I also of course live in hope.......

Then a fucking pandemic stopped the fucking and the pressure at home builds.  I have not been with a woman for weeks, I did a couple of post lock down punts but then decided to be more responsible.

I had an opportunity to punt this week and I thought it would be fairly safe. But then I think I am receiving signals that there will be some domestic action. Just a few little things but they all seemed to be pointed in the same direction. So like some stupid twat of a teenager I get all excited and hold myself ready for a lovely romp with the missus. The ongoing preparations including not fucking a prossie (a true romantic as I am).

But of course no, as fucking usual I have utterly mis read it. No sex, no nothing except a huge row because I was so unreasonable.

I have had that particular lesson so many fucking times, why can I not learn?

I have now had many beers so apologies for the rant. Fucking hell.

I have gone 8 years without even a kiss from the wife. The only positive is that I am not alone.

Sex has been so infrequent I really gave up 20 years ago. It was guaranteed on holiday when I'd get my good boy fuck for taking her away and her office party which I looked forward to more than she did as she'd come back feeling a bit pissed.
I had to have counselling 10 years ago as I was so pissed off but had discovered punting punting by then. One day after a session I came home and told her she and I would never have sex again. You want a sexless marriage you've got it....plus all the down sides now.
I dont understand her reactiion as she wasnt pleased. Shes since said shes never enjoyed sex. Her comments are all conflicting through the years and I gave up. I refuse to engage sexually with this mind fuck any more and she knows it.

Whilst we do get on very well in all other areas, its the punting that's saved my marriage. Indeed I've done things I never thought I'd do. It really has been an unexpected journey. But if I'm honest, I never wanted this. I still fancy my OH, I only wanted her if I'm honest. we could have had it all. But I'm not prepared to trade backwards as she'd just default to the fucking mind scrambled I've endured for years. I now put me first.

I hope to have my 1st punt since March next week, some one off my HL

And Red Kettle- Pleased you got lucky mate. But you know it will be a looong time before it happens again.

As a young single guy, after reading most of the post and other guy's experiences outside punting, I can safely say I can't see myself getting married if this is what I have to look forwarded to. A wife that won't want to have sex with you once you put a ring on and couple of babies in her. And if you want to leave then you will lose the house, kids and half of your money from what I read on this thread. Like she has planned this. The thing is if the foot was on the other foot, most guys here would do anything make their wives get satisfied in the bedroom (well me of course). I feel like women do this as they can get away with it and if they get divorced, the court favors her most of the time.

Anyways MrMatrix, counseling rarely works as those couple therapists normally side with the wife sadly. And her saying she never enjoyed sex is bullshit as she would drop her pants if you transformed into like Brad Pitt or Idris Elba. And sad thing most UK punters never wanted this. Most married men love their wives a lot but all they get in return is no sex and sometimes no sex plus being an headache at home. If marriage laws were fairer I would not mind getting married but with things are going, it looks like nothing will change as society likes shitting on men at every opportunity it can get. Again as I mentioned before on other threads, if I was married I can't cheat on my wife. It's just not me as I find it unmoral. At the same time I don't want to be in a marriage were the sex and love is dead for rest of my life and if I leave I suffer physical and mentally. 
 

There's a DeadBedrooms thread on Reddit.

External Link/Members Only

Go on the deadbedrooms forum. Plenty of men there have not had sex for years with their wife, but they don't even punt. They just suffer in silence in real life and lament in their posts of where did it all go wrong. At least you can punt.

I heard of the site. It's quite starring into the abyss of 99% of marriages. It's fucking sad that most women feel like this is ok.

No sex, no relationship, no marriage. I don't know why people stay together when the relationships not completely fulfilling unless there's a really good reason, like the punter on here that's still very much in love with his wife but she's too disabled to have a sex life with him so they silently collude for him to get his rocks off.

Money and kids seems to be the main reason for not ending a shit marriage. Lots of happy kids with parents that have split up and lots of happy people with less money. 

I 100% agree with you point on marriage/relationships. It's just a shit deal for men and women wonder why marriage rates has decreased. But I have to disagree with you on kids being happy when the parents split up. Most kids from divorced marriages (like myself) suffer a lot as they don't have a strong family unit. They have been many studies which shows this but don't have time to find it as I am writing this dead at night.

Never been married meself, but I feel for you guys that are and feel shafted when the marital sex dries up.

Deadbedrooms forum? Wow! Says it all. Guys never talk about anything (intimate or important), we're famous for it, but you know there's real desperation when such a site exists. I guess it's essentially a self-help community for conjugally-spurned guys?

Payyourway, you could do them all a favour by tipping the wink about UKP. Having said that, I wouldn't mind betting that very, very many of them already punt, and are actually UKP members already.

Sad thing is that those wives would not mind getting fucked loads and time by guy who treated them badly or an attractive guy in their younger days but can't put an effort to make their husband happy smh......

Last sex with the OH 2003!
Married 25 years next year!
I gave up asking as I couldn't keep taking the kick in the balls that was constant rejection. Decided she would come to me, guess what, she never has! Its like as soon as she got what she wanted a switch was thrown in her head that turned her libido off. She obviously didn't consider my feelings on the matter at all!
We live parallel lives, have separate bank accounts, it is a shame its come to this but I never would have found this hobby otherwise and my sex life prior to marriage was incredibly vanilla so, in a way I guess I should thank her.
Read the book "The Rational Male" by Rollo Tomassi.
2 of his "iron rules" are: 1. Women are incapable of loving men the way they want to be loved.
2. If a woman makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies you will wait for sex, the sex you will get will not be worth the wait!

I personally think every man should read The Rational Male. A great book and quite an eye opener on male and female relationships. Though if you want your eyes to be wide open to female to male relationships, read "the predatory female" or "the manipulated man". Those are real eye opener and force you to never see relationship like you did ever again. Be warned.

I feel your pain. It is a horrible lonely place to be in.

Deadbedrooms- I wish I knew this when I was married instead of suffering in silence but these days its spreading:

"If this isn't enough of a slap in the face for you fellas, you're on your own:" 

External Link/Members Only

I appreciate it is not easy for women either but neither is it easy for men to suffer without sex:

External Link/Members Only

I am big fan of youtuber "Better Bachelor". That video you  shared just shows how selfish some wives can be. They won't put an effort to be sexy for their husband every now and then but will dress sexy for their video for their facebook/youtube fans. Have to agree with Better bachelor on that and kinds of shows why onlyfans is popular right now. 

[Home Alone]

I must confess that I'd never heard of him before now and found him really quite interesting. I began listening to him last night and will enjoy listening to him more closely over the coming weekend. It had me thinking how satisfied I am with the regime I've developed since the OH and 'my successor' pissed off together in 2003.

I've a number of female friends - quite a few of whom are the widows of some of my best pals over the years! - who are neither more nor less than that: just friends. And until the virus struck, I had paid-for sex from various SPs. I rationalise that past tense by my age - there won't be that many of my schoolmates from the 1950s and 60s still 'having relationships' with their OHs!

[sgc]

Oh wow that is brilliant Mace that you are also a fan of Better Bachelor. He and Coach Greg Adams are my two favourite.

Home Alone, I think you are referring to the Better Bachelor video when you said you started listening to him and liking his content. Really glad that you did, if that is the case.

[sgc]

I personally think every man should read The Rational Male. A great book and quite an eye opener on male and female relationships. Though if you want your eyes to be wide open to female to male relationships, read "the predatory female" or "the manipulated man". Those are real eye opener and force you to never see relationship like you did ever again. Be warned.

Honestly, Mace-Window is not kidding. That is one hell of a dangerous book to read!!! It could make your marriage better but there is a chance it could also end your marriage.

[Punterenas]

Greg Adams is good but he keeps referring to a womans "p sleeve" which winds me up for some reason. Get another  euphemism dude! Rollo Tomassi is the godfather but his videos are like 2 to 3 hours long! Even he jokes no one watches them to the end!
Better Bachelor expects women to think like men. No point pointing out how stupid leaving a good man for a "bad boy" is, its what they do, you might as well try to convince a Tiger to become a vegetarian! Richard Cooper is good, but the best is Patrice O Neal, sadly passed away in 2008 but his radio shows and his advice are both true and really funny. Find the one where older women are going to Africa to find young men, I laughed until I cried, and the one where he calls the friend zoned guy "Time Ho"

[mace-window]

Honestly, Mace-Window is not kidding. That is one hell of a dangerous book to read!!! It could make your marriage better but there is a chance it could also end your marriage.

I think books like "the predatory female" or "the manipulated man" end marriages more often than saving them. It one of those books I would refuse someone to read if he not to knowledgeable on Rolo Tomassi stuff. Those books are hardcore. Heck am surprised that "the Manipulated Man" is written by a woman which kinds of proves it value more.

[mace-window]

Oh wow that is brilliant Mace that you are also a fan of Better Bachelor. He and Coach Greg Adams are my two favourite.

Home Alone, I think you are referring to the Better Bachelor video when you said you started listening to him and liking his content. Really glad that you did, if that is the case.

Been a fan of Better bachelor and Coach greg adams in their early days. They are great and used to talk to Coach Greg Adams on facebook before he got big (kind of hard now as he gets like 100's of messages from fans unlike early days). I remember Better Bachelor when he had like 10k subscribers (not so long ago). I am surprised how quickly he reached 100K in 4 - 6 months.   

[mace-window]

Greg Adams is good but he keeps referring to a womans "p sleeve" which winds me up for some reason. Get another  euphemism dude! Rollo Tomassi is the godfather but his videos are like 2 to 3 hours long! Even he jokes no one watches them to the end!
Better Bachelor expects women to think like men. No point pointing out how stupid leaving a good man for a "bad boy" is, its what they do, you might as well try to convince a Tiger to become a vegetarian! Richard Cooper is good, but the best is Patrice O Neal, sadly passed away in 2008 but his radio shows and his advice are both true and really funny. Find the one where older women are going to Africa to find young men, I laughed until I cried, and the one where he calls the friend zoned guy "Time Ho"

I get what you mean about Greg Adams using "P sleeve" but I think it saves him from getting in trouble with youtube. I prefer the Hodgetwins term "sugar walls". Roll off the tongue quite nice if you ask me.

Yeah I unsubscribed from Rollo when he started doing those long hour shows without the other dude (that tough bald guy). And that shit rule zero show where they tried to shit on Mgtow/Coach Greg Adams can off put me off Rule zero guys (including Richard Cooper) and kind showed most of the guys true colors sadly. Aaron Clarey is great but he mostly focus on getting you shit together, don't do shitty degree and how to make money. And his books are amazing for sorting your life together as a young man.

Patrice O Neal is hardcore man. I remember watching him on the Dave Chappelle show skit of Players Ball were he plays as a pimp  . Sad he passed away so quickly but great guy.
But about older women going to African for younger black guys. That shit is true from what I heard from my parents country. In the past decade, cuckhold or older white women having black fetish has increased a bit that older white women are just going for any black guy young or not. So am not surprised that Patrice O Neal pointed that out on his radio show.

[sgc]

I get what you mean about Greg Adams using "P sleeve" but I think it saves him from getting in trouble with youtube. I prefer the Hodgetwins term "sugar walls". Roll off the tongue quite nice if you ask me.

But about older women going to African for younger black guys. That shit is true from what I heard from my parents country. In the past decade, cuckhold or older white women having black fetish has increased a bit that older white women are just going for any black guy young or not. So am not surprised that Patrice O Neal pointed that out on his radio show.

Its crazy, at my previous work place two very well spoken middle aged ladies who were both divorced used to go to Ghana every year for their summer holidays together for some fun with younger guys.... I think they should continue to out overseas forums.. 

[JontyR]

Honestly all of this alpha / beta nonsense is pretty much bollox in my mind.

I think its a theory which fits the facts in the mind of those who sort of have a few issues in this area. When it all goes a bit wrong it allows for other things / people / or situations to be blamed.

Just because something sounds right to you doesn't mean its true. Rather than reading one book, read lots from different viewpoints and keep your mind a bit open. 

[kirpNew]

Personally, in my case it’s a case of the OH refusing to split up and sell the house to take 50/50. She thinks I’ll walk and give it to her, plus it’s a case of our child, who I guess in a couple of years will move out as it’s getting to that age and then they’ll be no reason for her not to stop us selling the house.  I’ve tried legal options to force the sale, but with a child in education it’s not possible.

If you are talking about 50/50 splits and selling house. Your marriage is already finished.

Could you not get a good rental and move them in there for 12months, sell the house and do the 50/50 split.

[kirpNew]

Honestly all of this alpha / beta nonsense is pretty much bollox in my mind.

I think its a theory which fits the facts in the mind of those who sort of have a few issues in this area. When it all goes a bit wrong it allows for other things / people / or situations to be blamed.

Just because something sounds right to you doesn't mean its true. Rather than reading one book, read lots from different viewpoints and keep your mind a bit open.

Dude that's why you have no success with women. Alpha/beta is certainly not bollox. 

[Payyourwaymate]

If you are talking about 50/50 splits and selling house. Your marriage is already finished.

Could you not get a good rental and move them in there for 12months, sell the house and do the 50/50 split.

Divorcees don't go smoothly like that. Not from what I have seen anyway. From what I have personally seen and heard it's a bitter battle where both parties end up hating each other and everyone feels the pain, financially and emotionally. If it that were easy then most men would just divorce and move on in a smooth process no?

For most men, putting up with a deadbedroom is probably better than tearing their life apart financially and emotionally. The price of divorce in the western world is too much. If the man was rich, then I would assume it would be more salvageable as they can move out and still have funds for the future and build back up even if they lost half their shit and pay support, they can still live ok.

What would you do as a middle aged man as an average earner or slightly above average earner, losing everything you have worked for  including the house and then having to try to build up again?  I witnessed a guy lose all his savings sending it to his ex-wife from a divorce settlement, I can't imagine the pain he went through. Went from 6 figures to 0.

[Punterenas]

Dude that's why you have no success with women. Alpha/beta is certainly not bollox. 

Alpha and Beta are, of course placeholder terms, no one is suggesting humans act like chimps or gorillas but feminists and male feminist sympathisers often deliberately misconstrue the alpha / beta paradigm for their own ends.
I can provide scientific papers which show only 40% of men reproduce in every generation (the 20% women want and the 20% they settle for if they can't get what they want) and studies done by economists using Tinder, Bumble and Plenty of Fish that show women like 20% of men and men like 80% of women. When you observe the way women behave you can see these patterns quite clearly but they will deny it partly because its an unconscious bias and partly because they don't want to be judged and found to be shallow.

[JontyR]

Dude that's why you have no success with women. Alpha/beta is certainly not bollox. 

Dude, I have absolutely no problem in that regard. Never have.

I used to have quite a time with married women. Not particularly targeting them. Nothing to do with being Alpha. Being confident yes, providing something different certainly. But if its anything its more about them getting away from the seemingly caveman approaches that are being espoused here. 

[what-a man]

Divorcees don't go smoothly like that. Not from what I have seen anyway. From what I have personally seen and heard it's a bitter battle where both parties end up hating each other and everyone feels the pain, financially and emotionally. If it that were easy then most men would just divorce and move on in a smooth process no?

For most men, putting up with a deadbedroom is probably better than tearing their life apart financially and emotionally. The price of divorce in the western world is too much. If the man was rich, then I would assume it would be more salvageable as they can move out and still have funds for the future and build back up even if they lost half their shit and pay support, they can still live ok.

What would you do as a middle aged man as an average earner or slightly above average earner, losing everything you have worked for  including the house and then having to try to build up again?  I witnessed a guy lose all his savings sending it to his ex-wife from a divorce settlement, I can't imagine the pain he went through. Went from 6 figures to 0.

Does the wife always get the lions share even if she earns far more than the husband?

[Home Alone]

Does the wife always get the lions share even if she earns far more than the husband?

Perhaps not always in those circumstances; but if her income means she can afford a better lawyer than he can, . . . 

[Helloyou75001]

Alpha and Beta are, of course placeholder terms, no one is suggesting humans act like chimps or gorillas but feminists and male feminist sympathisers often deliberately misconstrue the alpha / beta paradigm for their own ends.
I can provide scientific papers which show only 40% of men reproduce in every generation (the 20% women want and the 20% they settle for if they can't get what they want) and studies done by economists using Tinder, Bumble and Plenty of Fish that show women like 20% of men and men like 80% of women. When you observe the way women behave you can see these patterns quite clearly but they will deny it partly because its an unconscious bias and partly because they don't want to be judged and found to be shallow.

If 60% of men can't reproduce, surely we would see mostly singles everywhere?

And how would women get partners if they only pick 40%? It would mean 2 women for 1 guy

[WelshClipper]

I haven't had sex with the OH since 10 years ago. She is very happy living her celibate life. I have no desire to upset her and I have no desire to have sex with her. As others have said, being single at my time of life especially after a long marriage, brings its own set of problems. I started punting 6 years ago so just had 4 years of relative frustration. (Might have joined the dead bedrooms society back then, if I had known about it.)

The way I see it. I have the best of both worlds, a good civvie life and a punting life within my budget yet beyond my wildest dreams. As long as things remain as they are, I imagine punting well into my 70's. Fucking brilliant........

I feel sorry for all those guys on dead bedrooms who have no sex yet are held back from punting by ethical, religious etc grounds. But I do not feel sorry for them if they find punting disgusting or look down on this line of work. Each to their own. 

[MrMatrix]

I haven't had sex with the OH since 10 years ago. She is very happy living her celibate life. I have no desire to upset her and I have no desire to have sex with her. As others have said, being single at my time of life especially after a long marriage, brings its own set of problems. I started punting 6 years ago so just had 4 years of relative frustration. (Might have joined the dead bedrooms society back then, if I had known about it.)

The way I see it. I have the best of both worlds, a good civvie life and a punting life within my budget yet beyond my wildest dreams. As long as things remain as they are, I imagine punting well into my 70's. Fucking brilliant........

I feel sorry for all those guys on dead bedrooms who have no sex yet are held back from punting by ethical, religious etc grounds. But I do not feel sorry for them if they find punting disgusting or look down on this line of work. Each to their own. 

Well stated WC. I feel the same as you

[WelshClipper]

Well stated WC. I feel the same as you

  

[_Bender_]

I haven't had sex with the OH since 10 years ago. She is very happy living her celibate life. I have no desire to upset her and I have no desire to have sex with her. As others have said, being single at my time of life especially after a long marriage, brings its own set of problems. I started punting 6 years ago so just had 4 years of relative frustration. (Might have joined the dead bedrooms society back then, if I had known about it.)

The way I see it. I have the best of both worlds, a good civvie life and a punting life within my budget yet beyond my wildest dreams. As long as things remain as they are, I imagine punting well into my 70's. Fucking brilliant........

I feel sorry for all those guys on dead bedrooms who have no sex yet are held back from punting by ethical, religious etc grounds. But I do not feel sorry for them if they find punting disgusting or look down on this line of work. Each to their own. 

+2 .. exactly the way I see it WC my man 

I imagine punting well into my 70's. Fucking brilliant........

Mmhmm .. dunno about that 😅

[Home Alone]

As long as things remain as they are, I imagine punting well into my 70's. Fucking brilliant........

That's right, WelshClipper; keep dreaming the dream! There's a lot to be said for it.

[Punterenas]

If 60% of men can't reproduce, surely we would see mostly singles everywhere?

And how would women get partners if they only pick 40%? It would mean 2 women for 1 guy

Article from a website called lesswrong,

It’s not a trick question, and it’s not 50%. True, about half the people who ever lived were women, but that’s not the question. We’re asking about all the people who ever lived who have a descendant living today. Or, put another way, yes,every baby has both a mother and a father, but some of those parents had multiple children. Recent research using DNA analysis answered this question about two years ago. Today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men. I think this difference is the single most under-appreciated fact about gender. To get that kind of difference, you had to have something like, throughout the entire history of the human race, maybe 80% of women but only 40% of men reproduced.

[dizietsmae]

Article from a website called lesswrong,

It’s not a trick question, and it’s not 50%. True, about half the people who ever lived were women, but that’s not the question. We’re asking about all the people who ever lived who have a descendant living today. Or, put another way, yes,every baby has both a mother and a father, but some of those parents had multiple children. Recent research using DNA analysis answered this question about two years ago. Today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men. I think this difference is the single most under-appreciated fact about gender. To get that kind of difference, you had to have something like, throughout the entire history of the human race, maybe 80% of women but only 40% of men reproduced.

This makes perfect sense, even a minger can find some bloke who will knock them up, but some guys are just never going to be given the opportunity, poor fuckers......

I am in the golden zone at the moment, regular OH sex and punting.  Though i will keep this all in mind as me and the OH age together 

[MrMatrix]

This makes perfect sense, even a minger can find some bloke who will knock them up, but some guys are just never going to be given the opportunity, poor fuckers......

I am in the golden zone at the moment, regular OH sex and punting.  Though i will keep this all in mind as me and the OH age together 

If I was/ had been getting regular sex of the OH, I wouldnt have the need to punt in the first place. I was left with no choince on this but you do have a choice, so why are you taking the risk

[WelshClipper]

+2 .. exactly the way I see it WC my man 

Mmhmm .. dunno about that 😅

You have to dream big...... 

[WelshClipper]

That's right, WelshClipper; keep dreaming the dream! There's a lot to be said for it.

For me, it's all about the next punt. So fucking addictive but keeps me going.   

[Happylad]

Vic, in my opinion, it's a biological thing that most (not all) women don't need sex when they approach/reach menopause. I think a woman's sex drive probably starts to wane after multiple childbirths and will decline further over time. The decline increases more quickly as she approaches menopause and may even stop completely. Where as we "dirty old men" don't loose our biological ability to produce sperm, even after the age of 100. So, biologically speaking, I think men have every right to visit WGs if their OH has lost her "mojo". I think she can get some of her mojo back, but it takes a lot of thought and sensual perseverance from her OH. It's probably more rewarding to visit a fit young WG who will do whatever men desire without the extreme labour of love that may be required to turn things around in the marital bed.

That was certainly not the case in my marriage.  Although our sex life had always been great - as much at her wish as mine - and as frequent as I could possibly wish, the onset of the menopause did put her off for a short while, but once it was passed she said she was "liberated" - no more precautions, no more preparations, no more fears of pregnancy, just get on and enjoy it whenever and wherever  we felt like it - and we did, right up to a month before she finally died of lung cancer at 77.

I would suspect that quite a few wives might have similar feelings once the menopause is safely out of the way and pregnancy no longer a risk.

[DubCee]

Its crazy, at my previous work place two very well spoken middle aged ladies who were both divorced used to go to Ghana every year for their summer holidays together for some fun with younger guys.... I think they should continue to out overseas forums.. 

Pure facts. I have witnessed this first hand, they come in their droves!

[MrMatrix]

Pure facts. I have witnessed this first hand, they come in their droves!

True, I've seen this in Tobago and St Vincent. They should go on AW and get paid for it if they feel like that....

[MrMatrix]

For me, it's all about the next punt. So fucking addictive but keeps me going.   

Thats the problem, once a punter always a punter

[Golden Hind]

Pure facts. I have witnessed this first hand, they come in their droves!

I've been in a few African counties mainly east Africa and seen a few middle aged women but not loads like you see with men (usually Germans in east Africa) and often they're with a partner and must be swingers. But very surprisingly in Uganda I saw a few groups of young girls mid to late 20's there for sex tourism, never knew that existed, they were mainly from northern Europe like Sweden or Finland, blonde and bit liberal/hippy vibe, I met a guy out there from Finland who said you see the same in Senegal too.

[mace-window]

If I was/ had been getting regular sex of the OH, I wouldnt have the need to punt in the first place. I was left with no choince on this but you do have a choice, so why are you taking the risk

That's what I don't get about some punters who have a happy marriage and still sleep around with escorts. Then again I am type of "one girl" type of person so a bit bias. Anyways having a wife who loves you and happy to make love to you (rather than faking it like escorts) is a dream most men want and seeing escorts is just a big risk and breaking your wife heart. But hi people can do whatever they want.

[winkywanky]

It then maybe comes down to 'variety' and 'stuff your wife won't do'.

Guys punt for many different reasons. Are any of them actually 'valid' when you have someone at home, unless perhaps you have their consent?

The members of UKP are a broad church, and although personally I'm one of the vanilla ones on here when it comes to what I have at home (ie nothing), it ill-behoves anyone here making judgements on other punters.

[MrMatrix]

That's what I don't get about some punters who have a happy marriage and still sleep around with escorts. Then again I am type of "one girl" type of person so a bit bias. Anyways having a wife who loves you and happy to make love to you (rather than faking it like escorts) is a dream most men want and seeing escorts is just a big risk and breaking your wife heart. But hi people can do whatever they want.

I've come to the conclusion there are 5 type of guys when in a relationship
1 Those who are in a relationship and they themselves aren't interested in sex- take or leave it. Wont be on UKP  say  15%
2 Those who are and in a relationship that is sexually not happening - will punt.  Most on UKP  say 60%
3.Those in a relationship that is sexually happening but are bored with what they are getting  - will punt many on UKP. 15%
4 Those in a relationship that is sexually happening and simple dont care about the OH - will punt and are rogue. Represents probably 5% of punters.
5. Those in a relationship and OH isnt well enough or tacitly agrees for partner to go and sort himself out because she's not interested. 5%


My estimates only- could be wrong.

[mace-window]

I've come to the conclusion there are 5 type of guys when in a relationship
1 Those who are in a relationship and they themselves aren't interested in sex- take or leave it. Wont be on UKP  say  15%
2 Those who are and in a relationship that is sexually not happening - will punt.  Most on UKP  say 60%
3.Those in a relationship that is sexually happening but are bored with what they are getting  - will punt many on UKP. 15%
4 Those in a relationship that is sexually happening and simple dont care about the OH - will punt and are rogue. Represents probably 5% of punters.
5. Those in a relationship and OH isnt well enough or tacitly agrees for partner to go and sort himself out because she's not interested. 5%


My estimates only- could be wrong.

My estimates would be bit different from you though you been on this site longer than me though.

I would your point 1 and 3 would be 5% from me. 2 would be 80% as I see a lot more married guys sneaking to see escort during this lockdown than not. 4 and 5 would be 4.5%. And the 1% would be someone like me which you forgot  . The young single guy who loves sex and if he is not getting it in civvie world he would get it from an escort. Though with the way things are going, single guys seeing escorts could increase in the future.

[MrMatrix]

My estimates would be bit different from you though you been on this site longer than me though.

I would your point 1 and 3 would be 5% from me. 2 would be 80% as I see a lot more married guys sneaking to see escort during this lockdown than not. 4 and 5 would be 4.5%. And the 1% would be someone like me which you forgot  . The young single guy who loves sex and if he is not getting it in civvie world he would get it from an escort. Though with the way things are going, single guys seeing escorts could increase in the future.

I did prefix it with those in a relationship - so it wouldnt include you.
And I would think your estimate of 80% may well be nearer the mark as well.
And yes, I too think single guys using escorts will increase over time.

[mace-window]

I did prefix it with those in a relationship - so it wouldnt include you.
And I would think your estimate of 80% may well be nearer the mark as well.
And yes, I too think single guys using escorts will increase over time.

Sorry I miss read you. But yeah if 80% married men are and in a relationship that is sexually not happening are actually using escorts then society will have to look at itself in a mirror as 80% is to damm high. That and maybe an increase of single guys using escorts thanks to dating market being so difficult will make future relationships will be in a total mess in the WAP/onlyfans climate. 

[webpunter]

Reck MM ain't a million miles away on the spread

The only thing i would add is that within group 1 you could include men who are interested in sex but are too scaredy-cat in case they get caught

Edit:  'you know when you are a punter when':

Hidden Image/Members Only

[Payyourwaymate]

Sorry I miss read you. But yeah if 80% married men are and in a relationship that is sexually not happening are actually using escorts then society will have to look at itself in a mirror as 80% is to damm high. That and maybe an increase of single guys using escorts thanks to dating market being so difficult will make future relationships will be in a total mess in the WAP/onlyfans climate.

A lot of guys in our age range are still prepared to play the long game of spending all they have in terms of time invested or ££££ on material objects in a sense "peacocking" (like the bird in mating rituals) to get to the pussy with no guarantee of sex, have their egos tied to "getting pussy" instead of going to the source directly or cannot really afford to pay for pussy, hence will pay a much lower rate of the onlyfans fee to get their fix and the interaction onlyfans brings.

I personally would not recommend punting for guys our age simply because suddenly having access to sex when you want, if you cannot control yourself is dangerous. Odds are they will bring themselves to financial harm spending too much money, warp their perspective on how they see women or hate themselves if their self esteem is tied to their ability to get women.

Society will not care if men are in deadbedrooms. Men have been seen as disposable for as long as you can go back in history to lives lost in wars, suicides, financial ruin from divorces, men not given second chances etc I could go on. With social media it's only going to get worse for the average nice guy still living in disneyland. Middle aged, older men stuck in deadbedrooms and younger men not having access to sex full stop...everyone will feel the pain.

[mace-window]

A lot of guys in our age range are still prepared to play the long game of spending all they have in terms of time invested or ££££ on material objects in a sense "peacocking" (like the bird in mating rituals) to get to the pussy with no guarantee of sex, have their egos tied to "getting pussy" instead of going to the source directly or cannot really afford to pay for pussy, hence will pay a much lower rate of the onlyfans fee to get their fix and the interaction onlyfans brings.

I personally would not recommend punting for guys our age simply because suddenly having access to sex when you want, if you cannot control yourself is dangerous. Odds are they will bring themselves to financial harm spending too much money, warp their perspective on how they see women or hate themselves if their self esteem is tied to their ability to get women.

Society will not care if men are in deadbedrooms. Men have been seen as disposable for as long as you can go back in history to lives lost in wars, suicides, financial ruin from divorces, men not given second chances etc I could go on. With social media it's only going to get worse for the average nice guy still living in disneyland. Middle aged, older men stuck in deadbedrooms and younger men not having access to sex full stop...everyone will feel the pain.

I find it funny that guys who will spend ££££ on expensive cloths think they are all that instead of putting that money on a goal or investing. That said I never understood why some guys would go on onlyfans when you can get your fix on free porn sites (with some having onlyfans leaked photos/videos). Then I realize that those Thots will actually send personally messages to their fans therefore having that interaction with a female which most men of today don't get.

Anyways I am glad that I can control myself and not get financial ruined. But my view of women have already been changed well before being a punter. Seeing how today's women are, how they are ok with things are going with divorce courts and hypocrisy of most women (#notall) has lead me not to believe in a traditional relationships in today's western society. But yeah I agree punting for guys at our age (especially guys who are still believe in disneyland dream of relationships) should not do it. You will get sex but when you start to realize that some of the WG are someone you could meet in everyday society then that will fuck with you when you meet with women in the civvie world. Plus side it will show that WG can be any type of women.

Sadly I agree on you about how men are the disposable sex and don't think it will stop anytime soon. And yes everyone will get hurt in the end including the women ironically. Though personally I am not feeling that bad about it these days as I have removed myself from the typically relationships games that everyone plays and rather focus on myself than trying to get in a relationship that will likely to fail.

[cunningman]

Seeing how today's women are, how they are ok with things are going with divorce courts and hypocrisy of most women (#notall) has lead me not to believe in a traditional relationships in today's western society.

How will you pass on your DNA?  Children of passing flings that you run away from?
Maybe you will not - but who will be there for you in your old age?

When you are older, you will face a possible loneliness.  That is why some of us punt, and try to stay friends.  Eventually, our libido/opportunity/funding/health will whither too in any case.

I could be divorced now in the knowledge that I have kids that I think will care, even if SWMBO doesn't.

You are playing a dangerous game though, in rejecting coupling and procreation, I think: compromise might be wise.

[mace-window]

How will you pass on your DNA?  Children of passing flings that you run away from?
Maybe you will not - but who will be there for you in your old age?

When you are older, you will face a possible loneliness.  That is why some of us punt, and try to stay friends.  Eventually, our libido/opportunity/funding/health will whither too in any case.

I could be divorced now in the knowledge that I have kids that I think will care, even if SWMBO doesn't.

You are playing a dangerous game though, in rejecting coupling and procreation, I think: compromise might be wise.

Oh my god not this with "Muh but who will  look after you when you die alone". That retort is a poor and cheap excuse to project this feeling of fear of loneliness to me and a terrible shaming language masked as sympathetic consideration of my well being. Smh........

First off I don't know you but let look at what will actually happen to most people who are married. Most marriages end around 10 years. And if you have kids around those 10 years, they will go to the wife most of the time and therefore be molded by her. And if you unlucky and marry a bad woman, kiss good bye to having your kids looking after you in your old age.

And with passing that important DNA. In the USA they is a chance of 30% of father kids may not be theirs. Also I did not say I will not have kids. They are many ways to have kids if I want to other than traditional way. That and I not made up my mind up yet (am in my 20's). And with all this, was the point to have kids is to rise them and love them. Not an insurance policy to have them look after me at old age or to calm my fears of not having my DNA being passed down to the next generations.

This may sound offense to other members here but cunningman, you tell me that I am playing a dangerous game yet your a married punter. And if your other half finds out about this hobby, likely you will lose half, your kids if they are young and suffer mentally causing stress and depression. Heck your wife could tell your kids the reason why she divorced you and if they find out, kiss good bye to having your kids looking after you in your old age. Also most kids these days don't really take care of their parents. Do you know how narcissist late teenagers or people at my age are? You honestly think these spoilt brats will be thinking about looking after their parents at old age or likely trying to be rich and buy many things that mean nothing in the end of the day? Having kids don't guarantee anything.

End of the day I rather live a life were I am in control of and not have toxic people around me who don't appreciate me. That and I am not going to live in fear and making a compromise in coupling and procreation out of fear hence increasing the likelihood of stress and a early grave. And even if I changed my mind in the future and I wanted to have someone to be with, I rather take my time than rush into it because some jealous married punter told me so. You say I will face loneliness yet the truth is most of us have come into this world alone and highly likely we will exit this existence alone. And remember there's a difference between alone and loneliness.