Thousands of women were harmed by THREE health scandals

[wombat42]

Thousands of women were harmed by THREE health scandals
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BBC News - Mesh, Primidos and valproate failings highlighted by review
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[David1970]

The problems with mesh implants have been in the news for years, why the sudden interest?

[wombat42]

The problems with mesh implants have been in the news for years, why the sudden interest?

Er the report examines the system failures in the NHS that allowed these three scandals to occur and recommends what reforms should be made to the NHS to stop these and other NHS scandals. The main problem is that patients suffering from defective treatments have no voice and are sometimes just considered to be mad or making it up because of arrogant doctors who are considered to "know best" often get financial incentives to do the treatments.

This report has been in the making for two years.

[David1970]

Er the report examines the system failures in the NHS that allowed these three scandals to occur and recommends what reforms should be made to the NHS to stop these and other NHS scandals. The main problem is that patients suffering from defective treatments have no voice and are sometimes just considered to be mad or making it up because of arrogant doctors who are considered to "know best" often get financial incentives to do the treatments.

This report has been in the making for two years.

This is not new information, it’s not new news, it been on the TV lots of times. Maybe a “no win no pay“ law firm has got involved and is turning up the heat hoping for a big settlement so they can make lots of money out of the NHS?

[wombat42]

This is not new information, it’s not new news, it been on the TV lots of times. Maybe a “no win no pay“ law firm has got involved and is turning up the heat hoping for a big settlement so they can make lots of money out of the NHS?

Show some compassion. Mesh victims for example have had their lives ruined, lost jobs, lost relationships, some suicides, some so crippled they cannot get out of bed. And they have had to fight for decades for recognition by the authorities that these problems even existed. NHS regulatory authorities completely failed in their jobs. This report gives recommendations to fix the system to avoid more similar scandals which would otherwise be sure to occur.

[winkywanky]

It's good that there's a review but sometimes shit just happens  .

Regarding the mesh, AFAIK a relatively small number of women have had problems. All the women who presented were having various problems within the abdominal area, incontinence etc, which they were desperate to get sorted. From what I've heard a very few have had problems with the mesh, but that's scant consolation for them because sometimes they can be in severe and life-changing pain. That's awful.

At the same time though, I should imagine the vast majority of women have had welcome relief from their previous symptoms.

But does all this mean the NHS is institutionally misogynist? This could very easily turn into a somewhat hysterical and unreasonable rant, shades of #MeToo and BLM. but let's not get into politics! 

I guess this is about exactly where mesh is placed and what type of mesh is used, but a good mate of mine has had some mesh implanted for his inguinal hernia. He's an active sportsman like myself and he seems to have made a good recovery. But what if his goes wrong? Will he be listened to because men just are, and women are all silly and girly and hysterical? I'm being ironic, shit can go wrong, statistically it will in a percentage of cases.

Of course he was warned about what might go wrong and presumably told a percentage (I've had loads of surgery over the years and I've always been warned, moreover, I'm proactive and make it my business to find out). I find it very hard to believe that women who've subsequently had problems weren't warned about a possible bad outcome.

[David1970]

Show some compassion. Mesh victims for example have had their lives ruined, lost jobs, lost relationships, some suicides, some so crippled they cannot get out of bed. And they have had to fight for decades for recognition by the authorities that these problems even existed. NHS regulatory authorities completely failed in their jobs. This report gives recommendations to fix the system to avoid more similar scandals which would otherwise be sure to occur.

I am not having a go at the ladies who have be effected, just wondering why this old news story has suddenly
re-emerged into the media?

[winkywanky]

As for the situation with drugs and birth defects, this is always tricky because ultimately drug firms are liable, but of course they will kick and fight to deny it.

It can take years to get anywhere, as the Thalidomide scandal showed.

If a baby is tragically born with defects (and birth defects can occur naturally) then of course the parents will receive the 'usual' State assistance, such as it is, and no it's not a lot. But until blame is proven there can be no real and proper compensation.

None of this means the NHS were necessarily at fault, unless real and tangible alarm bells went off, which were then ignored.

Hopefully someone like Doc H, will comment on this thread to provide some real context.

[winkywanky]

I am not having a go at the ladies who have be effected, just wondering why this old news story has suddenly
re-emerged into the media?

With my cynical hat on, probably because everyone else has been complaining about their 'lot' lately, and making a big noise about it.

Everyone wants to be heard.

[wombat42]

It's good that there's a review but sometimes shit just happens  .

Regarding the mesh, AFAIK a relatively small number of women have had problems. All the women who presented were having various problems within the abdominal area, incontinence etc, which they were desperate to get sorted. From what I've heard a very few have had problems with the mesh, but that's scant consolation for them because sometimes they can be in severe and life-changing pain. That's awful.

At the same time though, I should imagine the vast majority of women have had welcome relief from their previous symptoms.

But does all this mean the NHS is institutionally misogynist? This could very easily turn into a somewhat hysterical and unreasonable rant, shades of #MeToo and BLM. but let's not get into politics! 

I guess this is about exactly where mesh is placed and what type of mesh is used, but a good mate of mine has had some mesh implanted for his inguinal hernia. He's an active sportsman like myself and he seems to have made a good recovery. But what if his goes wrong? Will he be listened to because men just are, and women are all silly and girly and hysterical? I'm being ironic, shit can go wrong, statistically it will in a percentage of cases.

Of course he was warned about what might go wrong and presumably told a percentage (I've had loads of surgery over the years and I've always been warned, moreover, I'm proactive and make it my business to find out). I find it very hard to believe that women who've subsequently had problems weren't warned about a possible bad outcome.

No they were certainly not warned of dangers with the mesh. No warnings were given at all. Any issues with the mesh were intentionally hushed up.

[David1970]

No they were certainly not warned of dangers with the mesh. No warnings were given at all. Any issues with the mesh were intentionally hushed up.

That information has been in the media and news for a few years now, why the sudden interest from you and certain media outlets?

[winkywanky]

No they were certainly not warned of dangers with the mesh. No warnings were given at all. Any issues with the mesh were intentionally hushed up.

I've probably been under the knife around 14 times since the age of 20, for various things. That's over the last 40yrs.

Unless proven otherwise, I simply cannot believe no warnings were given about things that might go wrong in these women's cases. Over all those years I've had to sign a consent form every time  .

As for specific issues about pain from using mesh, was it known as a potential problem at the time of all these cases? Or are these historical cases from when the procedure was relatively new?

Let's not forget that many of these women presenting for treatment were probably already at the end of their tether from symptoms of abdominal/vaginal prolapse etc, and were desperate for treatment. In such cases, were they listening fully to the doctor before their surgery?

Regarding Primodos, that seems to be historical, it was banned from use in 1978. Sounds like the manufacturer involved are denying responsibility. Perhaps a compensation fund ought to be set up for cases such as these, where no money is forthcoming from drugs companies?

Sodium Valproate: it's an epilepsy drug so the dilemma there would be, do you take a pregnant mother off the drug and allow likely fits to take place during the pregnancy? Is there a suitably effective alternative which definitely wouldn't harm the baby?

While we would all like the NHS to listen to stuff which went wrong with our treatments, is this really a female issue? If I had really bad waterworks problems and I decided to go down the surgical route because my bladder was falling apart and I was wetting myself regularly, as well as having my life wrecked by having to get up in the night four or five times, if my operation went wrong and I was left impotent, what happens? I go back to my surgeon and say my life is over because I can't get it up, what can he do? There's no magic wand, however much I protest.

How much of this is actually genuine incompetence or cover-up?

How much of this is actually misogyny? That's hatred and contempt of women.

[scutty brown]

In the case of sodium valproate, a lot of the problem was with users failing to use birth control despite being told to do so.
There are parts of the population who simply find it impossible to follow medical instructions. In retrospect prescription of valproate should have been linked with compulsory sterilisation

[Pedalwall]

That information has been in the media and news for a few years now, why the sudden interest from you and certain media outlets?

Maybe because Baroness Cumberlege was asked in 2018 to review the surgical process and her report was published yesterday!! No big conspiracy.

[David1970]

Maybe because Baroness Cumberlege was asked in 2018 to review the surgical process and her report was published yesterday!! No big conspiracy.

Just interested why it reemerged after being in the media for so long.