Jizzlane maxwell

[David1970]

The basic is he is accused of fucking a trafficked 17 year old, trafficked by his friend who has been convicted for trafficking. Personally I would send the him over to New York to face the music.

If he is guilty, even if he did not know she was trafficked, what does that mean for joe public punter that visits a SP, who he does not know was trafficked, but has been?

[LLPunting]

If person A fucks a 17 year old unaware that person B has paid her, who has committed the offence?

All this is murky and messy and they are all a bunch of nefarious cunts on one kind or another.  My only point is that being attracted to the girl in that picture doesn't make anyone a paedophile.

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[Squire Haggard]

Having sex with a girl of 17 does not make you a paedophile.  I doubt there's a single man on this thread who wouldn't find Virginia attractive. 

Prince Andrew is a loathsome little liar, but Paedos like their children pre-pubescent. 

As much as we may enjoy our schadenfreude here, let's not propagate the stupidity that says being attracted to a girl of 17 and ¾ makes you a paedo.

'Paedophile' has been used in the media at every opportunity for at least 20 years to attack men, and is rarely used against women. To confirm this I've done a search 'woman seduces underage boy'. Note the absence of the term 'paedophile' in articles relating to women. Also, men 'rape' their victims, while women merely 'seduce' them, and there are countless cases of ladies getting off lightly in the courts, when men are jailed for similar offences.

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Men are always expendable anyway....... 

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[scutty brown]

The basic is he is accused of fucking a trafficked 17 year old, trafficked by his friend who has been convicted for trafficking. Personally I would send the him over to New York to face the music.

If he is guilty, even if he did not know she was trafficked, what does that mean for joe public punter that visits a SP, who he does not know was trafficked, but has been?

Joe goes to jail - IF the police prosecute. They tend not to, but that could easily change

[Spencer Fobby]

'Paedophile' has been used in the media at every opportunity for at least 20 years to attack men, and is rarely used against women. To confirm this I've done a search 'woman seduces underage boy'. Note the absence of the term 'paedophile' in articles relating to women. Also, men 'rape' their victims, while women merely 'seduce' them, and there are countless cases of ladies getting off lightly in the courts, when men are jailed for similar offences.

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Men are always expendable anyway....... 

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Thank you.  It's these double standards that are very damaging to men as a whole.

As this is a forum for sex-aware men, I found it surprising the see that word bandied about in this case.  I think most people here are responsible and sensible enough not to engage in sex with anyone under 18.  But culturally it's a recent phenomena to label being attracted to a 16/17 year old as paedophilic.

Paedophilia is an unhealthy attraction to pre-pubescent children.  It's not a term of abuse to be labelled at men who find sexually developed girls of 16/17 attractive. 

In the case of a 17 year old like Virginia - there's nothing wrong with finding her sexually attractive.  Most of us would probably say "yes, she's hot, but she's too young for me" - whether money changes hands or not.  That's just being a grown up.

Back to the topic - I do hope that GM does spill the beans on the whole shooting party.  That would be an interesting and diverting news story.

[badsin]

Back to the topic - I do hope that GM does spill the beans on the whole shooting party.  That would be an interesting and diverting news story.

I think the only reason she has been apprehended is because she's already cut a deal behind the scenes. There are far to many influential people involved in this for it to be fully exposed in a trial.

[Animalbeast]

She's right to be.  Body language says it all.  There's a clear pecking order. The royals are at the top of that food chain.

Royals can, maybe, call upon the SAS either ex or current, MI6 ex or current, to get her assassinated. The mafia really ain’t shit compared to that... true trump could probably call upon corrupt secret service / national security, CIA etc but the point is the American President isn’t above the law. The British monarchy technically are

[badsin]

👆 if she gets whacked it'll be the Clinton's.

[bhudda]

I think the average post was more sensible when we were allowed to discuss race, religion and politics

[jeanphillipe]

I think the average post was more sensible when we were allowed to discuss race, religion and politics

Politics got banned too ? I missed that

[smiths]

If person A fucks a 17 year old unaware that person B has paid her, who has committed the offence?

All this is murky and messy and they are all a bunch of nefarious cunts on one kind or another.  My only point is that being attracted to the girl in that picture doesn't make anyone a paedophile.

Your first sentence answer is it would have to be tested and proved in court but being unaware isn't automatically a defence. Here if a punter punts with a coerced woman working as a WG it doesn't matter if he knew or not, he would be guilty having to prove he didn't know as its a strict liability offence in law. That's thanks to Harriet Harman. On the other hand if a punter punts with a WG who told him she was 18 but she was in fact 17 he would have a defence allowed in court, he wouldn't if she was really under 13 though.

In this case if Andrew stuck to his he didn't fuck her line its her word against his obviously, Maxwells testimony could then be crucial. Maxwell isn't a woman who would find prison in the US acceptable so I imagine she has or would do a deal if she could. Andrew says he cant recall the infamous photo well that's a woolly line to take to court in my view, he will either be pressed to say it did get taken, or its a fake in court. No way would he just have forgotten and cant now recall it, would a jury believe that.

Fucking a 17 year old in itself certainly doesn't make someone a paedo. The added point in this case is where he fucked her if he did, the first time she says it was here after going to Tramps night club with Maxwell telling her to do what she did for Epstein, i.e. offering a sexual service or services. The second time was in the US Virgin Islands and no idea about the third time as she alleges at least 3 times I read. Well the law may be different between the first allegation here and the second and third allegations. Fucking a 17 year old here with her consent is legal, then comes the trafficking allegations she has made. A court is the place to hopefully get to the truth of all this IF there is enough evidence to go to court.

What I do know is going to court here would be infinitely better than in the US for him where their sentences can be off the scale compared to ours if found guilty. But either way Andrew would of course be forever disgraced and probably rarely be seen in public again after, his mum would go apeshit at him dragging the families image in to the gutter.

[sub_marine]

Ghislane is a puppet in a bigger picture, to some extent she was doing for epstien what she learned from her father.  He was operated a high level sex procurement operation among high ranking people, funded by mossad.  Files were kept on these activities and used as leverage for all sorts of deals. 

I've spent a few hours last night reading the whole of Epstiens page on wikipedia.  Very interesting read, especially the stuff about where a maths teacher got rich from.  He was a failed maths teacher that eventually got recruited to run the same sort of dodgey blackmail business that Robert Maxwell had been running.  After Epstiens death all investigations were halted, people further up the tree didnt want anything uncovered.  Hence why trump sacked the head of the southern district of NYC attorneys office, he was getting to close.

Things have had a certain urgency recently since the US Virgin Islands have made a claim to the Epstien estates wealth.  Epstien renewed his will days before his death.  But nobody will ever know who that benefits, but he knew he was about to get bumped.  Ghislane is now in jail so that her wealth can be used to pay off all the victums, the lawyers have been requesting any unknown victums to come forward for a portion of this cash.  They will all be given a payout and have to sign non disclosure agreements.  Ghislane will then be bumped, probably COVID19 as that is very handy, and all further investigations halted. 

There is absolutly no way we will get to hear of who exactly was doing what with Epstiens harem of girls, since if that became public knowledge, the people that keep the blackmail tapes will have no leverage anymore.  One of the girls removed all the hard drives from Epstiens Florida house hours before it was raided, I can garantee that she does not have those tapes now. 

[badsin]

Apparently there's tapes in Russia

[jeanphillipe]

I found all the victims believable in the netflix special....except is it just me or is something off about the one accusing prince andrew?

[Wadebridge]

There was also the reporter/photographer who was found dead in a burnt out car, in a French army base, with 2 bullet holes in the back of his skull.

Ah yes. James Andanson.
He was allegedly the high profile celebrity photographer responsible for the aerial photos of Diana and Dodi on Fayed's yacht, that got splashed all over the News Of The World.
He also allegedly had a white Fiat car that played such a mysterious part in the Paris Pont De Alma tunnel car chase.
He was identified as the man behind the yacht photos after Muhammed Al Fayed tempted two ex-private detectives out of retirement with thick brown envelopes and gave them a simple brief "Find someone who also has an interest in Diana and Dodi, and who also drives a white Fiat car". It didn't take these two sleuths long to come up with the name Jean-Paul James Andanson.

[cotton]

There was also the reporter/photographer who was found dead in a burnt out car, in a French army base, with 2 bullet holes in the back of his skull.

An incompetent suicide 

[Chorley]

Authorities have revealed the identities of the prison guards who will be monitoring Miss Maxwell during her incarceration. 



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[winkywanky]

 

[Animalbeast]

Ghislane is a puppet in a bigger picture, to some extent she was doing for epstien what she learned from her father.  He was operated a high level sex procurement operation among high ranking people, funded by mossad.  Files were kept on these activities and used as leverage for all sorts of deals. 

I've spent a few hours last night reading the whole of Epstiens page on wikipedia.  Very interesting read, especially the stuff about where a maths teacher got rich from.  He was a failed maths teacher that eventually got recruited to run the same sort of dodgey blackmail business that Robert Maxwell had been running.  After Epstiens death all investigations were halted, people further up the tree didnt want anything uncovered.  Hence why trump sacked the head of the southern district of NYC attorneys office, he was getting to close.

Things have had a certain urgency recently since the US Virgin Islands have made a claim to the Epstien estates wealth.  Epstien renewed his will days before his death.  But nobody will ever know who that benefits, but he knew he was about to get bumped.  Ghislane is now in jail so that her wealth can be used to pay off all the victums, the lawyers have been requesting any unknown victums to come forward for a portion of this cash.  They will all be given a payout and have to sign non disclosure agreements.  Ghislane will then be bumped, probably COVID19 as that is very handy, and all further investigations halted. 

There is absolutly no way we will get to hear of who exactly was doing what with Epstiens harem of girls, since if that became public knowledge, the people that keep the blackmail tapes will have no leverage anymore.  One of the girls removed all the hard drives from Epstiens Florida house hours before it was raided, I can garantee that she does not have those tapes now.

Les Wexnar owner of L Brands, which includes Victoria’s Secret, gave Epstein control of his $billions when Epstein was nothing.... why would he do that? I mean if Epstein was a successful family office manager I’d understand, but at that time he wasn’t. 

[scutty brown]

I think someone just lit the fuse


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[Chorley]

I think someone just lit the fuse


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If that's even half true I believe an "unfortunate accident" is imminent for Miss Maxwell

[willie loman]

there is a difference between having a sex life that is embarassing, and a sex life that is criminal, i will be astonished if any thing comes out of this case other than her guilt as a procuress, trafficker for epstein. Far from being bumped off, i predict a book, appearances on chat shows, after some sort of prison sentence. As for the famous names, is there anything that clinton has done or trump or andrew, that will surprise us?

[jeanphillipe]

I think someone just lit the fuse


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Oh yeah, someone is getting JFK'd

[paper7]

If that's even half true I believe an "unfortunate accident" is imminent for Miss Maxwell

They've 'moved' her to an NYC jail which has an extremely bad reputation. Make of that what you will, but my feeling is that someone wants her 'out of the way' and permanently. She knows FAR too much.

[Matrix]

They've already used the can't handle incareration/charges/prison life etc excuse for Epstein.  My money is on a patsy.  Mentally ill convict or somebody with a "grudge" excuse.

Or maybe we'll revisit a vehicular accident situation.

[LLPunting]

They've already used the can't handle incareration/charges/prison life etc excuse for Epstein.  My money is on a patsy.  Mentally ill convict or somebody with a "grudge" excuse.

Or maybe we'll revisit a vehicular accident situation.

Perhaps on a motorcycle near an airbase or CIA station...  Woman driver won't be prosecuted per SH's theory.

[scutty brown]

They've already used the can't handle incareration/charges/prison life etc excuse for Epstein.  My money is on a patsy.  Mentally ill convict or somebody with a "grudge" excuse.

Or maybe we'll revisit a vehicular accident situation.

Sex offender? Other prisoners will be queing up to get her. Boiling  water and sugar for starters, something lethal to follow

[paper7]

Sex offender? Other prisoners will be queing up to get her. Boiling  water and sugar for starters, something lethal to follow

Thoroughly ruddy agree, if they got any sense such a 'prize prisoner' would be in solitary. It wouldn't look too good on them if she came to any 'harm' would it?

[winkywanky]

Sex tapes? Rich & famous?

One can only hope the whole sordid castle comes tumbling down, taking all the occupants with it. Be funny if both the Clintons and Trump were involved, and it is strange that Trump hasn't opened his big gob over it yet, making thinly veiled insinuations about the Clintons. Probably a bit early in proceedings yet, but at some point as soon as the Clintons get mentioned at all, he'd be all over it with glee...normally. Perhaps he's in just the same shit as they are?

So if she has copies of all these tapes, where are the Epstein originals, and where did they end up? I tend to shy away from conspiracy theories (they're usually untrue) but if Epstein was bumped off then those could have been made to go away. Maxwell's will still be around somewhere though, presumably locked in a vault somewhere until Maxwell receives reassuring reassurances about her own case.

It'll be interesting to see how this all unfolds (and oh so frustrating if it all dies out like a damp squib).

[Xtro]

Sex tapes? Rich & famous?

One can only hope the whole sordid castle comes tumbling down, taking all the occupants with it. Be funny if both the Clintons and Trump were involved, and it is strange that Trump hasn't opened his big gob over it yet, making thinly veiled insinuations about the Clintons. Probably a bit early in proceedings yet, but at some point as soon as the Clintons get mentioned at all, he'd be all over it with glee...normally. Perhaps he's in just the same shit as they are?

So if she has copies of all these tapes, where are the Epstein originals, and where did they end up? I tend to shy away from conspiracy theories (they're usually untrue) but if Epstein was bumped off then those could have been made to go away. Maxwell's will still be around somewhere though, presumably locked in a vault somewhere until Maxwell receives reassuring reassurances about her own case.

It'll be interesting to see how this all unfolds (and oh so frustrating if it all dies out like a damp squib).

I would hazard a guess that they've sent her to the Moon. However, we haven't been there yet!   

[Colston36]

Do you mean Andrew - The Paedophile formally known as Prince?   

While we're here.... Ghislaine Maxwell has stated that she will never 'sell out' Prince Andrew.
Apologies, that should be Dame Ghislaine Maxwell. 

Reading about Ghislaine Maxwell's past, she's remarkably similar to her father, Robert.
They both went a little overboard.

Andrew the paedophile? How a bunch of lechers like us can be critical amazes me. She was 17. Perfectly legal here.

Spain, the UK, Russia, the Netherlands, Norway, Finland and Belgium all have 16.. Children of 14 can consent to sex in Germany, Austria, Hungary, Italy and Portugal.

But in the U. S.? 18. All bollocks.


But America is a nation of hypocrites.

How a bunch of lechers like us can be critical amazes me. 

In Germany the age of consent is 14, last time I looked.  In France 14

[winkywanky]

I would hazard a guess that they've sent her to the Moon. However, we haven't been there yet!  

 

[winkywanky]

Andrew the paedophile? How a bunch of lechers like us can be critical amazes me. She was 17. Perfectly legal here.

Spain, the UK, Russia, the Netherlands, Norway, Finland and Belgium all have 16.. Children of 14 can consent to sex in Germany, Austria, Hungary, Italy and Portugal.

But in the U. S.? 18. All bollocks.


But America is a nation of hypocrites.

How a bunch of lechers like us can be critical amazes me. 

In Germany the age of consent is 14, last time I looked.  In France 14

What matters in the eyes of the law of course, is whether it was illegal at the time, in whatever location it took place. In the case of Victoria Giuffre (née Roberts?) she was technically underage at the time, in that US State.

But the 'Paedo' label is wrong in any case (and I've made the same mistake myself): if the girl's underage but there's hair on it (as the old expression used to go) then you're not a Paedophile, you're a Hebephile. If the underage victim is pre-pubescent, then it is paedophilic.

[mh]

Or maybe we'll revisit a vehicular accident situation.

They will strongly oppose bail due to obvious flight risk and given her seeming ability to hide they surely won't risk it. Unless instructed otherwise...

[Matrix]

 

[Matrix]

On the subject of Old Bill C. That's one sick puppy. Likes biting amongst other things.

[houseboot]

Apparently there's tapes in Russia

Stapler's checking them out 

[willie loman]

On the subject of Old Bill C. That's one sick puppy. Likes biting amongst other things.

where did you hear that? anyway lots of folk of either sex like biting, if its consensual.

[Animalbeast]

Andrew the paedophile? How a bunch of lechers like us can be critical amazes me. She was 17. Perfectly legal here.

Spain, the UK, Russia, the Netherlands, Norway, Finland and Belgium all have 16.. Children of 14 can consent to sex in Germany, Austria, Hungary, Italy and Portugal.

But in the U. S.? 18. All bollocks.


But America is a nation of hypocrites.

How a bunch of lechers like us can be critical amazes me. 

In Germany the age of consent is 14, last time I looked.  In France 14

In the U.K. age of consent might be 16 but it’s still illegal to sleep with a prostitute who is under 18.

[sub_marine]

Thoroughly ruddy agree, if they got any sense such a 'prize prisoner' would be in solitary. It wouldn't look too good on them if she came to any 'harm' would it?

Quite the opposite, look what happened to Epstien, his cell mate was removed one evening, then the CCTV facing his cell and the main CCTV looking down the wing corridor both malfunctioned at the same time, then the 2 gaurds who were supposed to check every 30 mins, both fell asleep for 9h and he was found dead.  The FBI took the cameras away and still have an open investigation into that incident. 

In July 2006, the FBI began its own investigation of Epstein, nicknamed "Operation Leap Year".[103] It resulted in a 53-page indictment in June 2007.[65] Alexander Acosta, then the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Florida, agreed to a plea deal, which Alan Dershowitz helped to negotiate,[104] to grant immunity from all federal criminal charges to Epstein, along with four named co-conspirators and any unnamed "potential co-conspirators". According to the Miami Herald, the non-prosecution agreement "essentially shut down an ongoing FBI probe into whether there were more victims and other powerful people who took part in Epstein's sex crimes". At the time, this halted the investigation and sealed the indictment. The Miami Herald said: "Acosta agreed, despite a federal law to the contrary, that the deal would be kept from the victims."[8]

Acosta later said he offered a lenient plea deal because he was told that Epstein "belonged to intelligence", was "above his pay grade" and to "leave it alone".[48][49][105] Epstein agreed to plead guilty in Florida state court to two felony prostitution charges, register as a sex offender, and pay restitution to three dozen victims identified by the FBI.[8][85] The plea deal was later described as a "sweetheart deal".[106]

A federal judge later found that the prosecutors had violated the victims' rights in that they had concealed the agreement from the victims and instead urged them to have "patience".[107][108]

The police already have a whole trove of evidence from Epstien, if Maxwell only has the same info then they have gained nothing.  If the courts/police have kept the information secret when they obtained it from Epstien, can't see them now release it just cos they have Maxwell in custody.

If Maxwell has passed any of the information to a 3rd party with a threat to release it if she doesnt get released, then I would think mossad would be arrange for that 3rd party to have some sort of accident while the data is recovered.  What Robert Maxwell, and then Jeffrey Epstien have recorded over the years is such a powerful leverage tool that the people pulling those levers will be making sure they remain in control.

Question is now though, who will now be filling the shoes of epstien/ghislane and being the fixxer for all these dodgey rich guys and supply the filth they need, some new trusted figure somewhere is currently getting the backing to set another system.  Wait another 20 years and they may be rumbling in the news.

[mh]

In the U.K. age of consent might be 16 but it’s still illegal to sleep with a prostitute who is under 18.

The treatment of the girls by Epstein and Maxwell isn't only about their age. They were groomed, abused and trafficed, some as young as 14, possibly even younger. But even those aged 16 or 17 were pimped out to middle aged men by a wealthy couple. Even if they had been 18 or 21 crimes were being committed. Not that Epstein and Maxwell would have been interested in adults...

[Matrix]

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Getting the suicide narrative in.

[stevedave]

In the U.K. age of consent might be 16 but it’s still illegal to sleep with a prostitute who is under 18.

She wasn't a prostitute, Andy didn't pay. She was forced/trafficked/managed to have sex with him. She didn't receive payment for this, he job was as a masseuse.

[Avg_Joe]

I think the only reason she has been apprehended is because she's already cut a deal behind the scenes. There are far to many influential people involved in this for it to be fully exposed in a trial.

i'd like to see the prosecutor say "fuck you, i don't care if you think you are influential" and throw the book at them, if they implicate someone else during the trial/defense, throw another book at them

i am fed fuck up of seeing "influential" people get away with crimes because they have dirt on others.


Like i said before, just give her to her victims families and have done with it

[willie loman]

Her lawyer points out that she had had no contact with epstein for 10 years, and she wasnt hiding, why they needed a convoy to arrest her is baffling.

[Private Parts]

She wasn't a prostitute, Andy didn't pay. She was forced/trafficked/managed to have sex with him. She didn't receive payment for this, he job was as a masseuse.

Cloud    Cuckoo land
 
Best. PP

[winkywanky]

Her lawyer points out that she had had no contact with epstein for 10 years, and she wasnt hiding, why they needed a convoy to arrest her is baffling.

In terms of any potential prosecution of her, that's immaterial is it not?

For instance, the alleged incident(s) with Andrew was more than 10yrs ago.

I believe the Statute of Limitations doesn't applly to these kinds of cases anyway.

[paper7]

i'd like to see the prosecutor say "fuck you, i don't care if you think you are influential" and throw the book at them, if they implicate someone else during the trial/defense, throw another book at them

i am fed fuck up of seeing "influential" people get away with crimes because they have dirt on others.


Like i said before, just give her to her victims families and have done with it

Yep, thoroughly agree. If the 'House of cards' falls over during the trial, tough, if the courts can't sort her out give her to the victim's families, save a 'shedload' of money too!

[willie loman]

In terms of any potential prosecution of her, that's immaterial is it not?

For instance, the alleged incident(s) with Andrew was more than 10yrs ago.

I believe the Statute of Limitations doesn't applly to these kinds of cases anyway.

You are correct , i was just surprised at the fact.

[scutty brown]

She wasn't a prostitute, Andy didn't pay. She was forced/trafficked/managed to have sex with him. She didn't receive payment for this, he job was as a masseuse.

In UK law the absence of payment doesn't matter: the girl would classify as enslaved / trafficked for the purposes of sexual exploitation - and the UK claims universal jurisdiction in modern slavery cases. Andy could be tried in the UK for what happpened on USA territory