Hong Kong

[hullad]

Trouble is continuing in Hong Kong and I am not surprised, this was always going to happen one day. I have spent some time there in the 70s, love the place not been back since and won't now the Chinese have it. I think Boris offering three million people the opportunity to move to the UK is bordering on madness.  We are in the midst of a deepening economic crisis due to covid 19 with perhaps that many unemployed here. Is this taking back control remember the panic over a free thousand Romanians etc where due.

He will have trouble getting this past his own party let alone anyone else. I have tremendous respect for the people of Hong Kong and I wish them well. No way can we take anyway near 3 million people we have no accommodation, not enough spare infrastructure, no jobs and there entry will.
 make all of us a lot poorer. Boris must know the Chinese will not let them LEAVE anyway, that would leave the economic powerhouse of down town Kowloon losing its most important resource, it's people.

Worrying times, but it seems odd to me we tackle prats like north Korea,  Syria,  Iraqi, Iran and Libya and turn a blind eye. 


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[lostandfound]

Discussed extensively on this existing thread -

https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=278167.msg2871320#msg2871320

Broad consensus was in favour of the idea - though as I was amongst their number perhaps I would say that!

[David1970]

Trouble is continuing in Hong Kong and I am not surprised, this was always going to happen one day. I have spent some time there in the 70s, love the place not been back since and won't now the Chinese have it. I think Boris offering three million people the opportunity to move to the UK is bordering on madness.  We are in the midst of a deepening economic crisis due to covid 19 with perhaps that many unemployed here. Is this taking back control remember the panic over a free thousand Romanians etc where due.

He will have trouble getting this past his own party let alone anyone else. I have tremendous respect for the people of Hong Kong and I wish them well. No way can we take anyway near 3 million people we have no accommodation, not enough spare infrastructure, no jobs and there entry will.
 make all of us a lot poorer. Boris must know the Chinese will not let them LEAVE anyway, that would leave the economic powerhouse of down town Kowloon losing its most important resource, it's people.

Worrying times, but it seems odd to me we tackle prats like north Korea,  Syria,  Iraqi, Iran and Libya and turn a blind eye. 


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I also lived there but in the mid 1990s, great place and great people, but I am not sure 3 million coming here is a good idea.

On your last line we have not tackled N Korea, Iran and Syria all dictatorships still very much in power, Iraq and Libya that was for oil and they are fucked up because of us. The west do not have a very good track recorded intervening.

[Corus Boy]

Personally, with limited knowledge and experience, I wouldn't wory.

I suspect we'll be getting three million workers and entrepreneurs, many may have family already here who will help the get started.

Like the Ugandan Asians they will mostly be hard workers and contribute to our economy rather than being a drain.

[tintin100]

As usual, most people haven't got a clue about the people of Hong Kong, I can tell you now most of them will not be coming. Do they really want to be a second class citizen when they are here ? The ones that fear of the Communist party have already either left or have passports from other countries like Australia, Canada, USA and other countries but UK. It's all too little and too late, the handover was 1997, people wanted assurance way before then. 

[AnthG]

but I am not sure 3 million coming here is a good idea.

Wow, Hell must quite literally be freezing over right now as we have reversed places. And its you being the rightey now. As when I heard this on the news today I thought good on Boris and I hope he does and I hope they come.

I have absolutely nothing against HK people coming here, even 3million of them. They can happily move into my neighbourhood and I would literally roll out the red carpet for them.

The other good thing is, if he does this, it better also mean Islamic immigration is going to be reduced accordingly. None more. We are taking in refugees from Hong Kong now, and gladly so.

(Just to add, Unrestricted did win the poll didn't it).

[Jimmyredcab]

(Just to add, Unrestricted did win the poll didn't it).

Indeed it did but I suspect it may be ruled “advisory” and the result not honoured, we shall see, Hope I am wrong.

[Corus Boy]

Indeed it did but I suspect it may be ruled “advisory” and the result not honoured, we shall see, Hope I am wrong.

Good to see you Jimmy.

[mh]

I have absolutely nothing against HK people coming here, even 3million of them. They can happily move into my neighbourhood and I would literally roll out the red carpet for them.

You just have no idea! The stereotype of the hard working HK'er masks the usual spread of brilliant, useless, hard-working, lazy, reliable, feckless, honest and criminal people.

And if you love Romanian and Bulgarian criminal gangs you're going to love the fucking Triads - members of which are far more likely to exit HK than your average honest Joe due to cost, opportunity and fear of mainland crackdown.

I have many friends in HK, but even they know it isn't them who will end up here in the UK it's more likely the rich and the undesirables. Be careful what you wish for...

[winkywanky]

About the '3M': is this really a case of if 3M apply to come to the UK from Hong Kong, then they all can come here?

Surely not. 3M can apply to be on the pathway but I'm assuming we'll choose how many, and who?

[AnthG]

And if you love Romanian and Bulgarian criminal gangs you're going to love the fucking Triads - members of which are far more likely to exit HK than your average honest Joe due to cost, opportunity and fear of mainland crackdown.

Have nothing against Romanians, or Bulgarians, and the Triads, fine, ok.

Rather those any day of the week than people who think their God is telling them to blow up little children or go on mass stabbing sprees.

And I am not in anyway downplaying how bad the Triads likely will be. But I doubt they'd do the shit the above lot have been doing week in week out here.

[Adoniron]

Should be more than a few SPs coming over too. More rub and tug shops opening?

[winkywanky]

About the '3M': is this really a case of if 3M apply to come to the UK from Hong Kong, then they all can come here?

Surely not. 3M can apply to be on the pathway but I'm assuming we'll choose how many, and who?

Having read a bit more now, it seems we are basically inviting 3M Hong Kongers to come live here if they so wish.

I'm just wondering, will a condition of their doing so be to build their own house, because no-one else seems to be taking the housing shortage that seriously? As well as all the extra hospitals, schools, roads and jobs we'll need as a result of the influx?

I do hope our govt are correct in their estimates of how many might actually choose to come...I'm assuming they have come up with some estimates?...of course they would, wouldn't they, surely? 

[robsmith149]

3 million more coming into an already overcrowded country, ridiculous.

[Asurmen]

My wife is from Hong Kong and she and her family are all in  favour of the new security law.

As she pointed out, Hong Kong had less or no democracy under British rule and in fact Hong Kong Chinese werent even allowed to join the Civil Service or live on The Peak until the 1950's?

Every country has its own security law, look at the British citizens executed by their own Government for helping the Germans in World War 2. They were termed traitors for doing things that were less than whats covered in this security law.

As for "the death of hong kong", thats just a load of crap, the same thing was said pre 1997 when loads of Hong Kongers went to Canada realised they couldnt get the jobs they were accustomed to back in Hong Kong and went slinking back when they realised the CCP wasnt going to massacre everyone.

[LLPunting]

3M people are going to have a lot of extended family in China, the national and local authorities could make life very awkward for those left behind so I suspect many of the 3M will convince themselves to stay and suffer for want of bringing retribution or relations.  Something Boris is probably praying will manifest for most so that his posturing isn't proven to be lies.
Perhaps if the 3M could be allowed to disperse amongst the Commonwealth countries that might work but good luck getting that consensus.
If China acts to prevent brain drain or flight of money it might get very messy as people start to claim asylum and that whole nightmare starts to spiral.
UK has fuck all leverage as it's going to be going cap in hand to China to agree all kinds of trade and investment to make up for Brexit's economic implications whilst handicapping itself with these damn "security risk" embargoes which will mean (significantly) more expensive alternative sourcing from EU and US in the absence of preferential trade agreements...

[kippydon]

This government needs to show some leadership and cancel the Huawei contract for the 5G network , could be a powerful message to send to China,

but i doubt that this will happen, we have a very weak administration, starting from the man who hides in fridges

[tintin100]

You just have no idea! The stereotype of the hard working HK'er masks the usual spread of brilliant, useless, hard-working, lazy, reliable, feckless, honest and criminal people.

And if you love Romanian and Bulgarian criminal gangs you're going to love the fucking Triads - members of which are far more likely to exit HK than your average honest Joe due to cost, opportunity and fear of mainland crackdown.

I have many friends in HK, but even they know it isn't them who will end up here in the UK it's more likely the rich and the undesirables. Be careful what you wish for...

You obviously haven't read the proposal set out by the UK government then. I can't see the Triads coming.

[tintin100]

My wife is from Hong Kong and she and her family are all in  favour of the new security law.

As she pointed out, Hong Kong had less or no democracy under British rule and in fact Hong Kong Chinese werent even allowed to join the Civil Service or live on The Peak until the 1950's?

Every country has its own security law, look at the British citizens executed by their own Government for helping the Germans in World War 2. They were termed traitors for doing things that were less than whats covered in this security law.

As for "the death of hong kong", thats just a load of crap, the same thing was said pre 1997 when loads of Hong Kongers went to Canada realised they couldnt get the jobs they were accustomed to back in Hong Kong and went slinking back when they realised the CCP wasnt going to massacre everyone.

I agree with your wife totally, I have friends that live there and a vast majority of them are not worried about China and I would say the western media is hyping to sell the news.

[winkywanky]

My wife is from Hong Kong and she and her family are all in  favour of the new security law.

As she pointed out, Hong Kong had less or no democracy under British rule and in fact Hong Kong Chinese werent even allowed to join the Civil Service or live on The Peak until the 1950's?

Every country has its own security law, look at the British citizens executed by their own Government for helping the Germans in World War 2. They were termed traitors for doing things that were less than whats covered in this security law.

As for "the death of hong kong", thats just a load of crap, the same thing was said pre 1997 when loads of Hong Kongers went to Canada realised they couldnt get the jobs they were accustomed to back in Hong Kong and went slinking back when they realised the CCP wasnt going to massacre everyone.

Looking back to the 50s isn't really relevant to the current day, nor indeed, to HK in the years leading up to it being handed back to the Chinese.

Unless you can show otherwise, the impression I get is that the vast majority of the HK population were dreading going back to Chinese rule 23yrs ago. And I would be interested to know how many Hong Kongers are happy with recent events in HK regarding the new laws brought in by the PRC govt?

As for the British Citizens executed in WW2, they were proven 5th Columnists and subversives during a World War against Hitler, and of course also Japan, which has a long record of shitting on China as a whole. Anyone who registered as a conscientious objector during WW2 was allowed to bow out of any active service, it was only the most severe and ptoentially dangerous cases who were executed (many were spies in any case).

And again, this was at a time when we had capital punishment, which was only abolished in (I think) 1967.

You can't keep comparing then with now, we've seen a lot of that lately and it's largely irrelevant.

[LLPunting]

This government needs to show some leadership and cancel the Huawei contract for the 5G network , could be a powerful message to send to China,

but i doubt that this will happen, we have a very weak administration, starting from the man who hides in fridges

Delaying 5G in UK by first removing all existing Huawei kit from 4G/5G installs and then building out with more expensive "trustworthy" (aka compromised by US/UK intelligence orgs) would cost UK customers biilions (because it will be passed on by the companies) and up to 2 yrs delay in completing 5G rollout.  The original cap on Huawei to 35% of 5G wasn't due to kick in until 2023!  So we're happy to suffer the "security risk" in using their equipment for at least 3 more years of the ongoing rollout!
Huawei kit with its dodgy engineering has been in our networks for over a decade.  If they were using it to their advantage would they really have permitted Trump to win the White House?
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In the greater scheme of things China (because apparently Huawei is China) could care less but nor very much less.  An increase in UK cost of living (or any other Western society's) especially around "key" lifestyle components means that they can up their margins on cheaper innocuous consumer items and components because localised inflation forces the consumers to swallow the increasing prices. 
If we go with a high cost 5G solution (with equally capable/reliable kit that maybe hasn't been productionised yet by Western alternatives) then everyone's bills will be even higher for access, contracts may be longer and handsets will have to be cheaper to make the offering palatable to the proletariat and who makes most/all of those?  And which part of the service offering is the one that churns kit the most?
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By the by, they can generate enough 5G business everywhere else around the world (incl Russia and India) that can't afford the over-priced Western electronics to maintain their research lead. 

So here's one of the real reasons why the US is so pissed at Huawei:
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Even if we don't buy Huawei 5G gear they have so many patents in the 5G space they'll still be earning from most every non-Huawei 5G deployment.

China doesn't give a fuck about conquering the West it just wants to profit from it (free, greedy foreigners spend far more than dead, imprisoned or impoverished ones), spying is a nice to have vis-a-vis corporate insight and IP surveillance and IP theft (less relevant as they lead IP creation).  The West want spying for the same reasons against all other nations regardless of affiliation especially as the developing economies become more present in the IP space (e.g. India in Space). 

China and India are gobbling up the intellectual lead whilst still maintaining a huge advantage re labour costs.  That's another major reason for all this fantastical posturing.

[lostandfound]

I think there's lots of evidence that China wants to exert as much power around the world as it can. But to be honest we're crossing over into politics, which I think this thread probably does anyway.

[Cceon]

Not realistic and has not passed into law yet. Also the commies are now saying they will stop the transfer of resources for those HKers who take up this offer, that is aimed at restricting the numbers that do come, that and fact that most will have close family back in HK and we all know what the CCP will do to them.

But 3 m is a barmy idea, 100,000 is still a large number but manageable.