Rental e-scooters to be made legal on roads on Saturday

[Squire Haggard]

Rental e-scooters to be made legal on roads in Great Britain from Saturday. I've still to see one of these things. There's likely going to be more on the roads in future, which could be great fun, as long as you're not stuck behind one when driving a car. 


''Rental e-scooters will become legal on roads in Great Britain from Saturday, in a bid to ease pressure on public transport amid the coronavirus crisis.

The Department for Transport (DfT) said the first rentable e-scooters could be available next week, as it published guidance for e-scooter-for-hire firms.

The vehicles are banned on pavements, will be limited to 15.5mph and it is recommended that riders wear helmets.

Privately owned e-scooters remain illegal on roads.

Under the new rules set out by the DfT, local authorities and devolved administrations in England, Scotland and Wales can allow or run e-scooter sharing schemes in their areas as part of 12-month trials.

Riders will need a full or provisional car, motorcycle or moped licence to use the vehicles, and they must be aged 16 or over.''

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[lostandfound]

Trying to keep an open mind on this, but I'm not filled with enthusiasm over the idea.

People already buy them and use them on roads and pavements. Pre lockdown I remember walking along my favoured jogging route and someone whizzed past me on one doing a good 30 mph. How he got to that speed I don't know - maybe freewheeling downhill if they can do that, or maybe scooters are being sold that will go way over the limit in this anouncement.    Potentially deadly to himself and anyone on foot unfortunate enough to be in his way IMO.

[Corus Boy]

I would love to see a YouTube video of the consultation with the Police on how this;

The vehicles are banned on pavements, will be limited to 15.5mph and it is recommended that riders wear helmets.

Privately owned e-scooters remain illegal on roads.

Under the new rules set out by the DfT, local authorities and devolved administrations in England, Scotland and Wales can allow or run e-scooter sharing schemes in their areas as part of 12-month trials.

Riders will need a full or provisional car, motorcycle or moped licence to use the vehicles, and they must be aged 16 or over.''

Is going to be enforced?

[sparkus]

I would love to see a YouTube video of the consultation with the Police on how this;

The vehicles are banned on pavements, will be limited to 15.5mph and it is recommended that riders wear helmets.

Privately owned e-scooters remain illegal on roads.

Under the new rules set out by the DfT, local authorities and devolved administrations in England, Scotland and Wales can allow or run e-scooter sharing schemes in their areas as part of 12-month trials.

Riders will need a full or provisional car, motorcycle or moped licence to use the vehicles, and they must be aged 16 or over.''

Is going to be enforced?

So why do I see a bazillion of them a day around here, roads and pavements?

They do look convenient but I'd also feel like Niles on Frasier when he burst in on a Segway that time.

[lostandfound]

So why do I see a bazillion of them a day around here, roads and pavements?

They do look convenient but I'd also feel like Niles on Frasier when he burst in on a Segway that time.

Segway - flippin' dangerous, as the man who bought the company found out when he fell off a cliff while riding one, and died!

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Company that makes Segway recently announced they're stopping making them - ironically they're now making a mint out of e-scooters.

[GingerNuts]

So why do I see a bazillion of them a day around here, roads and pavements?

They do look convenient but I'd also feel like Niles on Frasier when he burst in on a Segway that time.

Idiots are going to idiot.

[tynetunnel]

I so want an e-scooter. Looks like I may have to rent one first to give it a legal ride out. Still Middlesbrough (which is first) is local so might not have to wait long 

[mr.bluesky]

I so want an e-scooter. Looks like I may have to rent one first to give it a legal ride out. Still Middlesbrough (which is first) is local so might not have to wait long 

I can't see why they discriminate between a rented one and a purchased one. I wonder whether they will ignore red traffic signals like a lot of cyclists do  what sort of range do they have. Do you have to wear a motorcycle helmet or will a bicycle helmet be sufficient.

[winkywanky]

Cue mayhem, carnage and multiple rule-breaking on a huge scale  .

[Squire Haggard]

Cue mayhem, carnage and multiple rule-breaking on a huge scale  .

No doubt.

Plenty to choose from here.....

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[winkywanky]

I can't see why they discriminate between a rented one and a purchased one. I wonder whether they will ignore red traffic signals like a lot of cyclists do  what sort of range do they have. Do you have to wear a motorcycle helmet or will a bicycle helmet be sufficient.

The level of twattery will be similar to those on bikes who run red lights.

A bicycle helmet will be sufficient, they won't be going any quicker than a pushbike.

[GingerNuts]

I can't see why they discriminate between a rented one and a purchased one.

They can control the types of e-scooter being used. Only those approved for use in the trials.

I wonder whether they will ignore red traffic signals like a lot of cyclists do 

Probably, and use the pavements etc.

what sort of range do they have.

That will depend on the type of e-scooter used.

Do you have to wear a motorcycle helmet or will a bicycle helmet be sufficient.

You don't have to wear either though wearing of protective headgear is encouraged.

[winkywanky]

I should imagine they're allowing rental scooters because it's a one-year trial.

Rental firms will recoup their investment within that time so it's not a disaster if the scooters are subsequently banned.

But if you'd bought one and only got a year of use out of it, you'd be rightly pissed off.

I think?

[Fuzzyduck]

I can't see why they discriminate between a rented one and a purchased one. I wonder whether they will ignore red traffic signals like a lot of cyclists do  what sort of range do they have. Do you have to wear a motorcycle helmet or will a bicycle helmet be sufficient.

- A rental one can be speed limited.
- I expect they will behave worse than cyclists (i.e. a greater % of scooter riders will be dicks compared to cyclists). It's easier for them to mount pavements so scooter riders will interact with pedestrians, cyclists and road traffic. But wearing a helmet isn't mandatory. Go figure.
- The guidance says cycle helmet
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[smiths]

These fucking things are all over my area including being used on pavements and by kids and teenagers, yet another death trap waiting to happen.

[mr.bluesky]

Looking how small the wheels are on those things I wouldn't fancy riding one on our public roads. Hit a pot hole on one of them and you will go arse over tit. 

[winkywanky]

- A rental one can be speed limited.
- I expect they will behave worse than cyclists (i.e. a greater % of scooter riders will be dicks compared to cyclists). It's easier for them to mount pavements so scooter riders will interact with pedestrians, cyclists and road traffic. But wearing a helmet isn't mandatory. Go figure.
- The guidance says cycle helmet
External Link/Members Only

If eventually they go on sale to the public they will be speed-limited. Just as electric bikes currently are (and to the same speed, 15.5mph, but higher in the US).

[oldmanking]

Two questions come to mind.... 

The first, is that will they have some kind of registration plate on them so if they clip your mirror can you chase them for the damage?   

And secondly, how many points will angry motorists get for knocking them off for a bit of payback? 

[Fuzzyduck]

These fucking things are all over my area including being used on pavements and by kids and teenagers, yet another death trap waiting to happen.

One of the cocky bastards tried to play chicken with me the other day on the pavement. He lost, and got a big earful for his trouble. I'm not too bothered if they hurt themselves through irresponsible behaviour but I worry about the pedestrians who won't see them or aren't used to dealing with something coming at them like that. e.g. a pensioners or small kids.

[smiths]

Another reason I saw some government twat mention was pollution in London, well they could make a dent in that a bit by ensuring fucking black cab drivers could only drive Electric, if that meant loads of cabbies stopping being cabbies great as there are far far too many now. And I do include mini-cabs and Ubers in this as well as Black cabs. I have over the years regularly seen these fuckwits sitting in huge lines at stations like Paddington chucking their fumes out.

Kahn like Boris is shit scared of Black cabbies and their union and wont tackle the pollution they cause quick enough in my view.

[Fuzzyduck]

And secondly, how many points will angry motorists get for knocking them off for a bit of payback? 

You have a habit of saying dickish things, don't you?

[winkywanky]

One of the cocky bastards tried to play chicken with me the other day on the pavement. He lost, and got a big earful for his trouble. I'm not too bothered if they hurt themselves through irresponsible behaviour but I worry about the pedestrians who won't see them or aren't used to dealing with something coming at them like that. e.g. a pensioners or small kids.

Good on ya! 

Basically a pavement is the preserve of pedestrians, anyone on a scooter is a visitor and needs to fit in safely, not the other way round.

What will actually happen in reality though, is that twats will ride way too fast and weave in and out of pedestrians. Carnage will ensue  .

[GingerNuts]

These fucking things are all over my area including being used on pavements and by kids and teenagers, yet another death trap waiting to happen.

One of the cocky bastards tried to play chicken with me the other day on the pavement. He lost, and got a big earful for his trouble. I'm not too bothered if they hurt themselves through irresponsible behaviour but I worry about the pedestrians who won't see them or aren't used to dealing with something coming at them like that. e.g. a pensioners or small kids.

It's illegal to use them other than on private land with the permission of the landowner.

[winkywanky]

Two questions come to mind.... 

The first, is that will they have some kind of registration plate on them so if they clip your mirror can you chase them for the damage?   

And secondly, how many points will angry motorists get for knocking them off for a bit of payback? 

...shades of Rod Liddle 

[smiths]

It's illegal to use them other than on private land with the permission of the landowner.

Not much good when there aren't any police about to enforce the law in my area that I have seen for weeks.

[Fuzzyduck]

It's illegal to use them other than on private land with the permission of the landowner.

I know, and I'm sure that will be of great comfort to the pensioner lying on the pavement thinking "WFT was that?"

[smiths]

I know, and I'm sure that will be of great comfort to the pensioner lying on the pavement thinking "WFT was that?"

Exactly right, having a law is one thing, enforcing it can be an entirely different thing, brothels in my area being a good example, during this pandemic the police haven't closed them down. Well if they aren't going to do it now I doubt they will do so at all.

[Fuzzyduck]

Good on ya! 

Basically a pavement is the preserve of pedestrians, anyone on a scooter is a visitor and needs to fit in safely, not the other way round.

What will actually happen in reality though, is that twats will ride way too fast and weave in and out of pedestrians. Carnage will ensue  .

At the end of the day it's about all travellers staying safe. I don't have so much of an issue with cyclists or scooters on the pavement if they are travelling at a safe speed and are being considerate of other pavement users. It's the same as driving 60mph down a busy high street vs an open motorway.

[redveee]

I read somewhere there aren't any rental firms yet and the news item about them I saw Tuesday night mention they could be geo-fenced.

[LLPunting]

Rental scooters are allowed to use up to 500W motors and weigh up to 55kg, so they're going to be electronically limited to 15.5 mph, nothing said about their acceleration profile.  How long before someone posts a YouTube hack or even worse an app to just unlock the limiter?

Current limits on e-bikes are 250W output (you can buy 500W+ motors but they are (poorly) restricted).

Look at how dockless bike hire has gone, first a load of littering then you barely see them now External Link/Members Only

And the chaos of scooter hire companies around the World.

Perhaps these new ones will be managed a bit better because the kit is significantly more expensive but the chances are that any dockless ones will simply be vandalised by those who can't afford (the deposit) to ride them.

Deaf and Blind charities have been unimpressed and are fearful of these heavy, fast, recklessly ridden (because they will be) machines being a serious hazard to their constituents.

Initial trial may require riders to have (provisional) driving licences but they aren't required to wear a helmet.  Anyone with a licence is going to be 50+ kgs so being hit by 100+ kgs of twat doing 15+ mph isn't going to be pleasant for the pedestrian, don't give a stuff about the twat, hopefully Darwin will take care of it.

Average London journey speed is <10mph so no reason for the scooters to do anything more than 10 mph.

[Kev40ish]

I used one of the hire ones last time I was in Budapest..
My daughter even though she had a full licence still managed to drive into a tree and fall off twice..

I’m not sure how safe she would have been on the road... carnage is the word that springs to mind.

[Digby232]

They don’t have to have insurance ! Just like a bicycle is not insured so if it smashes into your car tough. No number plate also means no way of identification the culprit if it hits your parked car on CCTV when they are racing around the multi storey in the evening as they do. A lot of people are using them to commute now and I didn’t realise they were illegal anyway. If on the pavement just knock the buggers off!  I did hear on the news you need a driving licence for the scooter! Why when these old buggers in their electric buggy’s need nothing and not got any road sense

[Kev40ish]

They don’t have to have insurance ! Just like a bicycle is not insured so if it smashes into your car tough. No number plate also means no way of identification the culprit if it hits your parked car on CCTV when they are racing around the multi storey in the evening as they do. A lot of people are using them to commute now and I didn’t realise they were illegal anyway. If on the pavement just knock the buggers off!  I did hear on the news you need a driving licence for the scooter! Why when these old buggers in their electric buggy’s need nothing and not got any road sense

Because they are hired, you need to book them with a credit card, so the hire company does have your details

[winkywanky]

Rental scooters are allowed to use up to 500W motors and weigh up to 55kg, so they're going to be electronically limited to 15.5 mph, nothing said about their acceleration profile.  How long before someone posts a YouTube hack or even worse an app to just unlock the limiter?

Current limits on e-bikes are 250W output (you can buy 500W+ motors but they are (poorly) restricted).

Look at how dockless bike hire has gone, first a load of littering then you barely see them now External Link/Members Only

And the chaos of scooter hire companies around the World.

Perhaps these new ones will be managed a bit better because the kit is significantly more expensive but the chances are that any dockless ones will simply be vandalised by those who can't afford (the deposit) to ride them.

Deaf and Blind charities have been unimpressed and are fearful of these heavy, fast, recklessly ridden (because they will be) machines being a serious hazard to their constituents.

Initial trial may require riders to have (provisional) driving licences but they aren't required to wear a helmet.  Anyone with a licence is going to be 50+ kgs so being hit by 100+ kgs of twat doing 15+ mph isn't going to be pleasant for the pedestrian, don't give a stuff about the twat, hopefully Darwin will take care of it.

Average London journey speed is <10mph so no reason for the scooters to do anything more than 10 mph.

Inevitably scooters WILL be hacked when Joe Public is allowed to buy them after the end of the 1yr trial (assuming that will be the case).

I just hope there are enough non-serious accidents within the first year for there to be either a ban on them, or at least very strict protocols introduced if they are allowed.

[winkywanky]

Scooters are inherently a lot less stable than bikes, and because of their design will be very attractive to twattish youngsters with no experience, nor brain cells for that matter.

The size of the wheels makes them less stable and much more susceptible to potholes (yes, our roads are shit).

If you have electric bikes then the very size of the frame will prevent small kids riding them. Scooters, not so.

And kids shouldn't be going around on something electric anyway, FFS they are kids and should be getting exercise, lest they grow up to be fat grown-ups.

I do despair sometimes  .

[Ali Katt]

I would love to see a YouTube video of the consultation with the Police on how this;

The vehicles are banned on pavements, will be limited to 15.5mph and it is recommended that riders wear helmets.

Privately owned e-scooters remain illegal on roads.

Under the new rules set out by the DfT, local authorities and devolved administrations in England, Scotland and Wales can allow or run e-scooter sharing schemes in their areas as part of 12-month trials.

Riders will need a full or provisional car, motorcycle or moped licence to use the vehicles, and they must be aged 16 or over.''

Is going to be enforced?

I've seen loads of people use them on pavements. The police don't even stop cyclists for using a pavements if there is a cycle path next to it or cyclists jumping red lights.

[smiths]

I've seen loads of people use them on pavements. The police don't even stop cyclists for using a pavements if there is a cycle path next to it or cyclists jumping red lights.

Exactly, as i said i have seen loads of people including young kids and teenagers using these fucking things on pavements already, no police in sight. All well and good having laws but not much good if they aren't being enforced. I predict some carnage with these things hurting people.

[Fuzzyduck]

Exactly, as i said i have seen loads of people including young kids and teenagers using these fucking things on pavements already, no police in sight. All well and good having laws but not much good if they aren't being enforced. I predict some carnage with these things hurting people.

And them also being hurt if they're on the road. It can be hard enough as a driver in London with cyclists either side of you and behaving like dicks to also watch out for scooter riders acting like dicks. As a driver, cyclist and pedestrian, I worry about e-scooters in all these environments.

Enforcement is nigh on impossible. Stopping and having a word with a cyclist/scooterist is difficult enough and even if it leads to a fine or prosecution, it's a drip in the ocean. Not the best use of police resources. The alternatives, e.g. full licensing with mandatory insurance, are draconian and might not make much difference.

[David1970]

I have used them when in Vienna and Kraków, great fun and a good way to get about town.
No one was bothered by them, used them in bike lanes and off road, everyone who had one seemed to well behaved.
It’s a British thing not liking them, either the Brits don’t know how to use them, or non users are grumpy old men, take your pick. In Europe they are great.

[Fuzzyduck]

I have used them when in Vienna and Kraków, great fun and a good way to get about town.
No one was bothered by them, used them in bike lanes and off road, everyone who had one seemed to well behaved.
It’s a British thing not liking them, either the Brits don’t know how to use them, or non users are grumpy old men, take your pick. In Europe they are great.

Good point. In Europe, cyclists are also better behaved in my experience and are treated with more respect (maybe not in Rome - it's a free for all there). I think it's more than just Brits not liking scooters: our current infrastructure was designed for motor vehicles and people whereas a lot of Europen cities were built with cycling in mind. I sense that we Brits believe we are the king of the road irrespective of which tarmac we're on and what mode of transportation we're using.

[winkywanky]

You only have to look at a Ford TV advertising campaign from a few years ago: buy a Ford, own the road.

Of course that attitude often applies to BMW/Audi drivers, and Ford were merely trying to 'up their game' to be compared with those brands.

But it does point to an underlying issue, methinks.

[Hobbit]

You only have to look at a Ford TV advertising campaign from a few years ago: buy a Ford, own the road.

Of course that attitude often applies to BMW/Audi drivers, and Ford were merely trying to 'up their game' to be compared with those brands.

But it does point to an underlying issue, methinks.

What would be the advertising campaign for these? Buy a scooter to meet a hooker? 

[David1970]

What would be the advertising campaign for these? Buy a scooter to meet a hooker? 

I have heard of car meets but a scooter meet might leave you a bit exposed 

[winkywanky]

What would be the advertising campaign for these? Buy a scooter to meet a hooker? 

Like it! 

And having a motor allows the punter to arrive unflustered and fresh 

[Fuzzyduck]

What would be the advertising campaign for these? Buy a scooter to meet a hooker? 

Scoot to root?

[lostandfound]

Scoot to Shoot?

An outcall service - Putas on Scooters

[LLPunting]

I have used them when in Vienna and Kraków, great fun and a good way to get about town.
No one was bothered by them, used them in bike lanes and off road, everyone who had one seemed to well behaved.
It’s a British thing not liking them, either the Brits don’t know how to use them, or non users are grumpy old men, take your pick. In Europe they are great.

It's more that there are too many inconsiderate and unsafe cyclists, drivers and scooterists who deserve everyone's contempt by poisoning the attitudes of ambivalent or considerate road users to each sub-category.

[David1970]

It's more that there are too many inconsiderate and unsafe cyclists, drivers and scooterists who deserve everyone's contempt by poisoning the attitudes of ambivalent or considerate road users to each sub-category.

I agree that cyclists in the UK tended to be inconsiderate and break the law with impunity, but not so in mainland Europe.

[LLPunting]

I agree that cyclists in the UK tended to be inconsiderate and break the law with impunity, but not so in mainland Europe.

Must look into how the road use laws are different in Holland, Belgium, France etc.

[hungrypunt]

My son has on ehe imported form america a goo dhile back, sort of off road type, suspension choccy tyres the lot lithium batteries, lights etc.

I had a go one night and went a couple miles, jesus didnt feel as safe as being on a bike for some reason. Top speed on a flat with a fatty on board like me 22mph, down hill 26.
make em all wear helmets and pads I would.

remember when the first motorised car came along similar things were said. If these get people out of cars and onto scooters cant be all bad