Boris and FDR

[King Nuts]

The story has broken about Boris wanting to emulate Franklin D Roosevelt's New Deal, by setting up some major infrastructure projects to get the country moving again, post-Covid.

Naturally, the Guardian pisses all over it: External Link/Members Only

Of course, if the idea had come from CorbynMillibandStarmer, the Grauniad would've been all over it like a cheap suit.

I've never been a Tory voter or supporter, but I hope Bozza sees it through. Of course, he's up against the usual whingers, the Civil Service, Labour and a good chunk of the MSM, but this is one time when the massed ranks of the bilious and ignorant Left really do need to put the pitchforks away and put their innate anti-Tory bias to one side, and support something that's going to benefit the nation.

[Adoniron]

Having listened to his speech it hasn't lived up to the hype. FDR's New Deal increased spending by 5% pa, Johnson's by 0.25%. He is going to spend an extra £5bn. We spent £500bn bailing out the banks.

[David1970]

Having listened to his speech it hasn't lived up to the hype. FDR's New Deal increased spending by 5% pa, Johnson's by 0.25%. He is going to spend an extra £5bn. We spent £500bn bailing out the banks.

I see that Cummings is starting a war against obesity was well, according to his front man Boris, it’s all smoke and mirrors to cover up the COVID-19 cockup they have done.
I also see Cummings got rid of the last adult in the room with the departed of Sir Mark Sedwill.
Cummings or his front man Boris couldn’t wipe FDR shoes, Americans greatest president. 

[The High Sparrow]

I see the fund the Magic Money Tree. Growing the country out of recession is the right way forward, not austerity

[Adoniron]

The Germans clearly have a bigger magic money tree. They are spending the equivalent of an extra £80bn.

[David1970]

The Germans clearly have a bigger magic money tree. They are spending the equivalent of an extra £80bn.

Yes but they are planning to do something, not just smoke and mirrors by Cummings.

[King Nuts]

I see that Cummings is starting a war against obesity was well, according to his front man Boris, it’s all smoke and mirrors to cover up the COVID-19 cockup they have done.
I also see Cummings got rid of the last adult in the room with the departed of Sir Mark Sedwill.
Cummings or his front man Boris couldn’t wipe FDR shoes, Americans greatest president.

The fact that The Independent has been huffing and puffing about the departure of Sedwill confirms to me that Bozza was right to get him out of the way.

External Link/Members Only

Meanwhile, I was always a big fan of FDR and remember studying the New Deal at school. No doubt he did a brilliant job, but as with all such people, doubts have since emerged:

External Link/Members Only

[King Nuts]

Growing the country out of recession is the right way forward, not austerity

If you mean investing in and creating new businesses, as opposed to building stuff for the sake of it, I'd agree with you.

[yandex]

The irony of it is that FDR was faced with the great depression, a worldwide economic disaster. Boris is faced with the consequences of 10 years of his own Conservative Party's horrendous attempt to destabilise the nation through austerity and the ongoing difficulties of a Brexit which is yet to be agreed. Add in the Covid-19 nightmare, not exactly his fault, which has laid bare the cupboard for all to see - we're going to emerge with the hardest hit economy in the whole of Europe and it's another 10 years of misery if he doesn't get to grips with it.

He's trying to big up his place in history but it's doomed to failure as he's at least a major player in the looming crisis and he knows it. Perhaps if he concentrated more on doing and trusting that actions speak louder than words he'd be the better for it. But this shameless showboating for the Daily Mail/Express/Telegraph readers is vomit inducing.

[King Nuts]

The irony of it is that FDR was faced with the great depression, a worldwide economic disaster. Boris is faced with the consequences of 10 years of his own Conservative Party's horrendous attempt to destabilise the nation through austerity and the ongoing difficulties of a Brexit which is yet to be agreed. Add in the Covid-19 nightmare, not exactly his fault, which has laid bare the cupboard for all to see - we're going to emerge with the hardest hit economy in the whole of Europe and it's another 10 years of misery if he doesn't get to grips with it.

He's trying to big up his place in history but it's doomed to failure as he's at least a major player in the looming crisis and he knows it. Perhaps if he concentrated more on doing and trusting that actions speak louder than words he'd be the better for it. But this shameless showboating for the Daily Mail/Express/Telegraph readers is vomit inducing.

For starters, the Great Depression had started in the US, and FDR had to deal with a very much localised problem.

As regards 'destabilising' with so-called austerity, successive governments in this country have been overspending for decades. I have no sympathy for the Tories but at least some vain effort was being made to stop the reckless and utter financial incontinence of government spending.

As for showboating, Jeez, what do you expect? He's a politician. Showboating is what they do.

[yandex]

As for showboating, Jeez, what do you expect? He's a politician. Showboating is what they do.

Can't disagree with you there but if you're going to invite comparison with arguably the greatest president in US history, you'd better be good.

I'm afraid Boris simply doesn't measure up

[David1970]

Can't disagree with you there but if you're going to invite comparison with arguably the greatest president in US history, you'd better be good.

I'm afraid Boris simply doesn't measure up

FDK was also the man that kept the UK afloat during the dark days of 1940-41, he also pushed the Europe first policy to help the UK, a true friend to this country.
Cummings and his puppet Boris are just trying to cover up their total balls up of the Covid-19 epidemic.

[yandex]

As regards 'destabilising' with so-called austerity, successive governments in this country have been overspending for decades. I have no sympathy for the Tories but at least some vain effort was being made to stop the reckless and utter financial incontinence of government spending.

That depends entirely on your viewpoint regarding government spending and affordability. My ideology says we should do more with regard to health and social care and education. More on local infrastructure and less on londoncentric solutions.

 I'm ok with paying a bit more tax to do so (I'm in a minority I know).

I don't think we're in disagreement though about successive governments pissing money into pet projects and back pockets though.

[King Nuts]

Can't disagree with you there but if you're going to invite comparison with arguably the greatest president in US history, you'd better be good.

I'm afraid Boris simply doesn't measure up

Well, again, this is people reading what they want to into this.

Once more, I am no defender of Boris but he was comparing his idea with FDR's New Deal. Not comparing himself with FDR.

Critical difference.

[King Nuts]

FDK was also the man that kept the UK afloat during the dark days of 1940-41, he also pushed the Europe first policy to help the UK, a true friend to this country.
Cummings and his puppet Boris are just trying to cover up their total balls up of the Covid-19 epidemic.

Yes, and him keeping us afloat came at a price.

Anyway, glad to see you're still banging the anti-Cummings drum.

Can you do it a bit louder, please. I think there's some at the back who can't hear you.

[King Nuts]

 I'm ok with paying a bit more tax to do so (I'm in a minority I know).

Excellent. I think you can volunteer to do that. This website will help you: External Link/Members Only

[yandex]

Well, again, this is people reading what they want to into this.

Once more, I am no defender of Boris but he was comparing his idea with FDR's New Deal. Not comparing himself with FDR.

Critical difference.

Not in my eyes. If you are going to stand up and say 'look everyone, I'm going to do what someone else, who was really brilliant, did' then you are inviting comparison with said person.

It'll be interesting to see how the newspapers play it

[willie loman]

Infrastructure projects during the new deal, gave thousands jobs, it was mainly pick and shovel, Whatever boris does, will not reduce the anticipated unemployment.

[A Decent Fist]

Shit. Only just realised that politics wasn't banned along with race and religion. Here we go back and forth and round in circles. 

[King Nuts]

It'll be interesting to see how the newspapers play it

We know what the papers will say. The Guardian has already pissed over it. The Telegraph will be broadly onside. The Mail will sit on the fence. The Sun will be gung ho for Bozza. The Mirror will piss over it, same as the Grauniad but without the Cazza Lucas back up.

The BBC will nit pick and invite some artless university type to pick it all apart. And the Star will show some woman's tits.

I guess we get the media we deserve.

[King Nuts]

Here we go back and forth and round in circles. 

You might not be interested, but the grownups are talking about something in the news today.

[A Decent Fist]

You might not be interested, but the grownups are talking about something in the news today.

You patronising twat.

I'm interested, I am heavily involved in "the news" and I have strong opinions. I contributed to previous political discussions on here before observing how they wouild all degenerate into two sides spouting their own certitudes and prejudices. I am not immune to that myself.

I posted above simply to express my disappointment that threads like that are still allowed on the forum. I will ignore them from now on.

Feel free to go round in circles, "grown ups". 

[sparkus]

As London Mayor Boris scrapped the tube PPP and brought the Croydon Tram back into public hands, two quite expedient and as it turns out effective moves.  As someone pointed out recently, inside Boris' book on Churchill he says the point is to do whatever it takes to stay in power and not be swayed by ideology/party concerns.

If Ken Livingstone had renationalised any infrastructure he'd have been a dangerous commie according to the Tories and no doubt some on this thread, yawn.

[sub_marine]

Has Boris said how this £5B will be spent, who will actually benefit from the cash.  Most of the schools and hospitals and in fact most government investment these days goes down the PPP route.  Like my old school for instance, it was handed over to a PPP firm.  A 1970s school was knocked down and replaced by a brand new school, which was basically free for the council as it was funded from the PPP, the catch being that the council now pays rent for the next 30 years.  What happens after the 30 years is anybodys guess. 

It was actually john major that started the PFI scheme but wasn't really much interest from investors.  So when we got the red tories in 1997, blair/brown changed it to PPP and they were pumping out schools and hospitals all over the country.  Basically privatisation by stealth, and who is going to argue against getting a brand new local hospital or your kids getting a flashy new school.  But some of these schemes are going to mature soon, so be interesting to see how if anything is mentioned about how the rents are going to sky rocket once the 30 year deals expire.  The very nature of the PPP deals was that they had a high level of confidentiality to incourage investors to participate. 

[Blackpool Rock]

You might not be interested, but the grownups are talking about something in the news today.

And this from the same poster who is quick to complain about all the "Snide" comments he gets 

[Blackpool Rock]

Can't disagree with you there but if you're going to invite comparison with arguably the greatest president in US history, you'd better be good.

I'm afraid Boris simply doesn't measure up

Perhaps he's finally realised he doesn't compare to Churchill so Cummings has advised him to change the Narrative 

[Blackpool Rock]

Has Boris said how this £5B will be spent, who will actually benefit from the cash.  Most of the schools and hospitals and in fact most government investment these days goes down the PPP route.  Like my old school for instance, it was handed over to a PPP firm.  A 1970s school was knocked down and replaced by a brand new school, which was basically free for the council as it was funded from the PPP, the catch being that the council now pays rent for the next 30 years.  What happens after the 30 years is anybodys guess. 

It was actually john major that started the PFI scheme but wasn't really much interest from investors.  So when we got the red tories in 1997, blair/brown changed it to PPP and they were pumping out schools and hospitals all over the country.  Basically privatisation by stealth, and who is going to argue against getting a brand new local hospital or your kids getting a flashy new school.  But some of these schemes are going to mature soon, so be interesting to see how if anything is mentioned about how the rents are going to sky rocket once the 30 year deals expire.  The very nature of the PPP deals was that they had a high level of confidentiality to incourage investors to participate.

I was initially pleased to hear about this money for investment as we need to reverse decades of under funding in infrastructure, not sure if this announcement is just stating again pledges already made during the election campaign so not actually any new money 

Unfortunately it looks like a fair chunk is just actually patching work rather than decent new infrastructure, projects in the £5bn investment plan include:

£1.5bn for hospital maintenance, eradicating mental health dormitories, enabling hospital building and improving A&E capacity
£100m for 29 road network projects including bridge repairs in Sandwell and improving the A15 in the Humber region
£900m for "shovel ready" local projects in England this year and in 2021
£500,000 - £1m for each area in the towns fund to spend on improvements to parks, high street and transport
Over £1bn to fund a schools building project, as announced on Monday
£83m for maintenance of prisons and youth offender facilities, and £60m for temporary prison places.

[kippydon]

There is nothing new new there

in nottingham we want to extend the Tram network, nothing mentioned about that, better than HS2

[King Nuts]

I posted above simply to express my disappointment that threads like that are still allowed on the forum. I will ignore them from now on.

Then ignore them quietly. You don't have to announce 'this is a crap thread' and 'I am ignoring it'.

Loads of threads on here, the vast majority in fact, I have zero interest in and don't really know why they're there. But it's a free forum, people can express what they want to. So who am I to say that some thread or other is pointless?

And when people like you come along with pointless and antagonistic comments like that, it just notches up the overall bad vibe.

[Boundless]

Having listened to his speech it hasn't lived up to the hype. FDR's New Deal increased spending by 5% pa, Johnson's by 0.25%. He is going to spend an extra £5bn. We spent £500bn bailing out the banks.

FDR's New Deal was the equivalent of £800bn in today's money.

Boris's is £5bn, mind you, they're going to make the A15 a dual carriageway!

[David1970]

FDR's New Deal was the equivalent of £800bn in today's money.

Boris's is £5bn, mind you, they're going to make the A15 a dual carriageway!

Smoke and mirrors exercise to deflect from the poor handling of the pandemic in this country by the government 

[tom269u001]

Smoke and mirrors exercise to deflect from the poor handling of the pandemic in this country by the government

+1

All distraction strategies from evil cummings. £5B is a drop in the ocean and much of the money had previously been announced. Comparisons with previously respected leaders increasingly shows Boris as an imbecile. FDR's deal was wide ranging in terms of policies and was supported with substantial cash.

He truly is an idiot. Doing Press-Ups FFS 

[King Nuts]

+1

All distraction strategies from evil cummings. £5B is a drop in the ocean and much of the money had previously been announced. Comparisons with previously respected leaders increasingly shows Boris as an imbecile. FDR's deal was wide ranging in terms of policies and was supported with substantial cash.

He truly is an idiot. Doing Press-Ups FFS 

Yes, how dare he do a press up. What a cunt. And good to see Cummings is still winding everyone up.

Meanwhile, the situation in the US in 1933 was vastly different, and doesn't really bear comparison with the UK today. The national debt of both countries was way lower than it is now, and the US economy post the 1929 crash was on its knees. So for the US to borrow vast sums to improve infrastructure was relatively easy.

The UK has become saddled with out of control debt because state spending has been out of control for decades. It will only get worse, whether Bozza spends 5 billion or does nothing. He doesn't have anything like the wriggle room that FDR had in 1933.

So he's fucked if he goes on and fucked if he doesn't go on.

I've been in similar work/business situations in the past, minus a couple of dozen 000s. And I always chose to go on and was glad I did.

[Blackpool Rock]

+1

All distraction strategies from evil cummings. £5B is a drop in the ocean and much of the money had previously been announced. Comparisons with previously respected leaders increasingly shows Boris as an imbecile. FDR's deal was wide ranging in terms of policies and was supported with substantial cash.

He truly is an idiot. Doing Press-Ups FFS 

TBF that was always clear but still the faithful seem to think he is some sort of Messiah 

[tom269u001]

Yes, how dare he do a press up. What a cunt. And good to see Cummings is still winding everyone up.

Glad you agree

[King Nuts]

TBF that was always clear but still the faithful seem to think he is some sort of Messiah 

No he isn't. We all know he's a very naughty boy.

[Blackpool Rock]

Yes, how dare he do a press up. What a cunt. And good to see Cummings is still winding everyone up.

Meanwhile, the situation in the US in 1933 was vastly different, and doesn't really bear comparison with the UK today. The national debt of both countries was way lower than it is now, and the US economy post the 1929 crash was on its knees. So for the US to borrow vast sums to improve infrastructure was relatively easy.

The UK has become saddled with out of control debt because state spending has been out of control for decades. It will only get worse, whether Bozza spends 5 billion or does nothing. He doesn't have anything like the wriggle room that FDR had in 1933.

So he's fucked if he goes on and fucked if he doesn't go on.

I've been in similar work/business situations in the past, minus a couple of dozen 000s. And I always chose to go on and was glad I did.

Can't remember whether I heard this or read it in the last few weeks but when looking at the amount spent on Furlough etc and the amount we will have to borrow to do it there are a lot of economists whose current thinking is that increasing National debt simply doesn't matter.

While it sounds alarming the theory is that it's so cheap to borrow on the world markets at the moment (depending on the countries credit rating) that you're paying back virtually no interest so if it then helps stop your economy going under then it's probably the most cost effective option.
I believe that the UK have for some time been borrowing at a low rate and then instantly loaning it out to other countries like Ireland at a higher rate but still less than they have to pay from the world bank

In the same way I was looking at rates for personal loans about 9 months ago and could borrow £25K over 5 years at 2.8%
I didn't do it as the timing wasn't right for me but may still consider it at some point for home improvements, basically borrow at 2.8% so that I don't have to touch stocks Isa's which are returning around 10% annualised, no brainer really

[King Nuts]

Can't remember whether I heard this or read it in the last few weeks but when looking at the amount spent on Furlough etc and the amount we will have to borrow to do it there are a lot of economists whose current thinking is that increasing National debt simply doesn't matter.

While it sounds alarming the theory is that it's so cheap to borrow on the world markets at the moment (depending on the countries credit rating) that you're paying back virtually no interest so if it then helps stop your economy going under then it's probably the most cost effective option.
I believe that the UK have for some time been borrowing at a low rate and then instantly loaning it out to other countries like Ireland at a higher rate but still less than they have to pay from the world bank

In the same way I was looking at rates for personal loans about 9 months ago and could borrow £25K over 5 years at 2.8%
I didn't do it as the timing wasn't right for me but may still consider it at some point for home improvements, basically borrow at 2.8% so that I don't have to touch stocks Isa's which are returning around 10% annualised, no brainer really

Well, it's a valid point. If money's THAT cheap, then why not borrow, as you say.

As regards rates, the govt-sponsored Business Bounceback Loan scheme offers loans at 2.5 per cent. Seems almost rude not to apply.

In the US, the Paycheck Protection Program offers an even better rate, 1 per cent.

[sparkus]

It's thin gruel and a bunch of reheated announcements.  It's not even comparable to the 1930s public works programme which expanded the tube we all benefit from today.

Even thin gruel is winding up the Tory right, who think all public spending is bad.

[lostandfound]

Yeah - it's a load of nonsense, just Bozza being Bozza - incorrigible.

[David1970]

It's thin gruel and a bunch of reheated announcements.  It's not even comparable to the 1930s public works programme which expanded the tube we all benefit from today.

Even thin gruel is winding up the Tory right, who think all public spending is bad.

I think you will find Cummings and his puppet clown are far right, the ones complaining must be over the edge right.

[sparkus]

I think you will find Cummings and his puppet clown are far right, the ones complaining must be over the edge right.

TBF, there's still a tradition of Tories who went into public office hoping to carry the flame for Thatcher and her small state.

As I recall, Thatcher had years taken off her life (thank fuck) when she learnt of the unmarried William Hague spending the night with the unmarried Ffion at his first Tory Party conference as Leader.  Fuck knows what she'd make of where Boris' dick's been over the past two decades (though she would approve of his new Union Jack tailfin).

[King Nuts]

I think you will find Cummings and his puppet clown are far right, the ones complaining must be over the edge right.

It's most amusing that so many people think Bozza and chums are right wing, let alone 'far right'.

I guess decades of soft and not so soft Marxist indoctrination via the education system and mass media has resulted in this kind of politically illiterate thinking, where anyone to the right of Corbyn is viewed as 'right wing'.

In fact, the term itself has simply become an insult. There's nothing truly right wing about this Government, or any government in decades.

[King Nuts]

As I recall, Thatcher had years taken off her life (thank fuck) when she learnt of the unmarried William Hague spending the night with the unmarried Ffion at his first Tory Party conference as Leader.  Fuck knows what she'd make of where Boris' dick's been over the past two decades (though she would approve of his new Union Jack tailfin).

An early death for one's political opponents, and a weird obsession for another opponent's penis.

It's pretty much what passes for debate from the Enlightened Left these days.

[tom269u001]

It's most amusing that so many people think Bozza and chums are right wing, let alone 'far right'.

I guess decades of soft and not so soft Marxist indoctrination via the education system and mass media has resulted in this kind of politically illiterate thinking, where anyone to the right of Corbyn is viewed as 'right wing'.

In fact, the term itself has simply become an insult. There's nothing truly right wing about this Government, or any government in decades.

You're so funny at times! And this is one of those time! 

[King Nuts]

You're so funny at times! And this is one of those time! 

You're quite good at the anodyne one-liner, but I've noticed you never actually debate the point or issue in question.

[David1970]

Back to the title of the thread, Boris the clown could not lace FDR shoes.
As for Boris the clowns statement it’s just smoke and mirrors, deception.

[sparkus]

An early death for one's political opponents, and a weird obsession for another opponent's penis.

It's pretty much what passes for debate from the Enlightened Left these days.

Without that penis he'd not be where he is right now.

[Colston36]

For starters, the Great Depression had started in the US, and FDR had to deal with a very much localised problem.

As regards 'destabilising' with so-called austerity, successive governments in this country have been overspending for decades. I have no sympathy for the Tories but at least some vain effort was being made to stop the reckless and utter financial incontinence of government spending.

As for showboating, Jeez, what do you expect? He's a politician. Showboating is what they do.

A localised phenomenon? What utter tosh. Nor did it start in the U.S. To quote the Library of Economics:

The Great Depression that began at the end of the 1920s was a worldwide phenomenon. By 1928, Germany, Brazil, and the economies of Southeast Asia were depressed. By early 1929, the economies of Poland, Argentina, and Canada were contracting, and the U.S. economy followed in the middle of 1929.

[King Nuts]

A localised phenomenon? What utter tosh. Nor did it start in the U.S. To quote the Library of Economics:

The Great Depression that began at the end of the 1920s was a worldwide phenomenon. By 1928, Germany, Brazil, and the economies of Southeast Asia were depressed. By early 1929, the economies of Poland, Argentina, and Canada were contracting, and the U.S. economy followed in the middle of 1929.

I said a localised problem, not a localised phenonmenon. Millions of unemployed in a vast country that was sorely lacking any kind of useful infrastructure.