Shops and companies going into administration

[myothernameis]

Think were now starting to see the real fallout form this virus, when it comes to jobs, and the lack of sales not being acquired

Go Outdoors, facing going into administration, but JD Sports filed for court protection, to stop the creditors forcing Go Outdoors to close.  This had almost failed and Go Outdoors had called in the administrators.  But in a final twist, JD sports buys back Go Outdoors for £56.5m, but in real terms, this will mean restructuring of go outdoors, with the intention to retain the majority of the stores


Even the big shopping centre's arent immune from all of this, and the latest one here is the Braehead centre in Renfrew.  The Braehead shopping centre is currently facing going into administration, but everything possible is being done to prevent this

All these big shopping centre's have been closed now for around 12 weeks plus, and guess with maybe no rent coming in, it cant be good for them

The group whuch owns the Braehead centre, also owns the following centre's, Manchester’s Trafford Centre and Lakeside in Essex.  And professional services firm KPMG on stand-by and is negotiating with lenders.

The thing is right now, at what time can the big shopping centre open, and if we get a second wave of infections come Oct, its going to be a dire time for big companies, and how many of them will go under

[RedKettle]

Go outdoors was a pre pack, a planned manoeuvre to get rid of expensive property leases. Basically sound business.

The shopping centre owner is Intu who were struggling with changing shape of retail way before covid. They had far too high debts so the lock down caught them with their pants down and spanked them.

[Moby Dick]

Cheer up, Amazon is no doubt doing well.

[David1970]

A lot of companies are using the pandemic to cut staff, changing workers contracts for the worst, cut offices/shops or phoenix whole companies.
Don’t worry the directors will be fine, either a big bonus or a big golden parachute with an eye watering pension.

[Kev40ish]

A lot of companies are using the pandemic to cut staff, changing workers contracts for the worst, cut offices/shops or phoenix whole companies.
Don’t worry the directors will be fine, either a big bonus or a big golden parachute with an eye watering pension.

Not all companies are like this.. it was an inevitable outcome, I have kept my staff on as long as I can topping up their wages.
I can only afford that with the help I’m getting. I am honest, so it is obvious to everyone that this is not sustainable as we will not go back to full capacity for a long time..
Some have retrained and taken other jobs before I have to let them go..

I will obviously try and keep them on but unfortunately I do not have a magic money tree in the back garden.

I will be okay. I have savings how much more should I spend of my own money to support my company?

[Chorley]

I've just heard that INTU are in big trouble. They own some absolutely massive shopping malls so if they're struggling christ knows what will happen to the small fry?   

[David1970]

I've just heard that INTU are in big trouble. They own some absolutely massive shopping malls so if they're struggling christ knows what will happen to the small fry?   

They were in trouble pre-pandemic with a huge debt to service.

[lostandfound]

They were in trouble pre-pandemic with a huge debt to service.

Yep, as we saw with Thomas Cook, if massive carries with it massive debt, then you're in massive trouble.

[David1970]

Not all companies are like this.. it was an inevitable outcome, I have kept my staff on as long as I can topping up their wages.
I can only afford that with the help I’m getting. I am honest, so it is obvious to everyone that this is not sustainable as we will not go back to full capacity for a long time..
Some have retrained and taken other jobs before I have to let them go..

I will obviously try and keep them on but unfortunately I do not have a magic money tree in the back garden.

I will be okay. I have savings how much more should I spend of my own money to support my company?

Good on you for helping your staff

Not all companies are not as good you, they are taking advantage of the current situation for their advantage.

[Chorley]

They were in trouble pre-pandemic with a huge debt to service.

I wasn't aware. Thanks. 

[mr.bluesky]

I would be surprised if HMV survive this time having been in liquidation once before.

[LLPunting]

Not all companies are like this.. it was an inevitable outcome, I have kept my staff on as long as I can topping up their wages.
I can only afford that with the help I’m getting. I am honest, so it is obvious to everyone that this is not sustainable as we will not go back to full capacity for a long time..
Some have retrained and taken other jobs before I have to let them go..

I will obviously try and keep them on but unfortunately I do not have a magic money tree in the back garden.

I will be okay. I have savings how much more should I spend of my own money to support my company?

You do have access to a number of money-makers if we're not mistaken... just down to how much of a gangsta you might be willing to be, from the safety of a nice off-shore, non-extradition sanctuary. 

Can't be a goody two-shoes all your life...

[catweazle]

They were in trouble pre-pandemic with a huge debt to service.

They had something like £3billion debt, and a trading loss in the tens of millions pre-lockdown. The closures have crippled them. Add in places like the Gateshead Metro Centre and Newcastle's Eldon Square and they were everywhere.

[Thephoenix]

I'm no expert, but it seems that high Street retailers have been dwindling over many years, because of out of town developments and online shopping.

There doesn't seem to have been any joined up thinking.
New developments get built.  High street stores can't compete so either close or move to the new development.
There's only roughly the same amount of people, spending the same amount of money, so the high street suffers.

Unless you're a major tourist town with greater number of visitors, the high street is dying.
I remember their heyday and find it very depressing with so many empty units.

Is it just progress?,  and particularly with the Covid effects, is it likely this trend will continue?

[willie loman]

I'm no expert, but it seems that high Street retailers have been dwindling over many years, because of out of town developments and online shopping.

There doesn't seem to have been any joined up thinking.
New developments get built.  High street stores can't compete so either close or move to the new development.
There's only roughly the same amount of people, spending the same amount of money, so the high street suffers.

Unless you're a major tourist town with greater number of visitors, the high street is dying.
I remember their heyday and find it very depressing with so many empty units.

Is it just progress?,  and particularly with the Covid effects, is it likely this trend will continue?

The high st is dying as far as shopping goes, but it just needs to be converted to other uses, pubs, nightlife, gyms etc, we are social people.People wont shop where they cant park, but they will get drunk, eat, go clubbing, by cab etc

[David1970]

The high st is dying as far as shopping goes, but it just needs to be converted to other uses, pubs, nightlife, gyms etc, we are social people.People wont shop where they cant park, but they will get drunk, eat, go clubbing, by cab etc

Mate of mine who worked in retail said if you offer free car parking customers will come, if you charge they will go else where. He worked in a shopping centre that charges 50p an hour parking, he said people would do a round trip of 20 miles to go to another centre that had free parking. I don’t get the economics of that.

[willie loman]

Mate of mine who worked in retail said if you offer free car parking customers will come, if you charge they will go else where. He worked in a shopping centre that charges 50p an hour parking, he said people would do a round trip of 20 miles to go to another centre that had free parking. I don’t get the economics of that.

Its less to do with economics but psychology. We are not that rational, as shops discovered about the time of Adam.

[lostandfound]

My local high street is thriving - or at least it was before covid. Remains to be seen how many of the eateries that have been closed these past months reopen. City centre "high street" is another matter, but that only came into being around 100 years ago thanks to the railways. Created by technology and now made redundant by it.

[GreyDave]

I've just heard that INTU are in big trouble. They own some absolutely massive shopping malls so if they're struggling christ knows what will happen to the small fry?   

  I am a bit slow in commenting on this one how I work in refits..

Intu bought/took over the Harlequin group which previously was a shopping center group whos name I cant recall however these were and are British Virgin Island based..

they have lost money from day one of the orginal firms development of many city center "Malls" as they are now called the main point that i can see for the on going exsistance of this set up ( maybe a company account and lawer could explain better  ) is the finiacing and aquiring of company and the % of commision earned by those involved which with the restructruring just grows the real earners are the people in this not the shops that rent the premises (I know pension funds are Landords of shops BUT less so these centers as they are run diffrently ) I am at a loss as to how councils were lead down the road of these companies making clone centers all over UK with no real return yet it goes on and on    Low wage jobs and lots of import people for them recruited  abroad too, When I started in fitout I worked on the Hatfield center which was gonna be the best ever They went skint owed 1000`s turn went belly up (insolvent) Yet all there clever work allowed them to never pay there debt and carry on. e had to operate on paying for all supplies in advance and waiting it took years to recover ,my old boss lost his house in the effort to not lose face with guys like me and others .  it killed him he never got that buzz of pride back , I miss that sort honour 

This covid will kill of shops and other business and the pensions companies who gained an in come from them will suffer and so will we all 

Life is a Shit sandwich - The more bread you have the less you taste the Shit!

[lostandfound]

I am a bit slow in commenting on this one how I work in refits..

Intu bought/took over the Harlequin group which previously was a shopping center group whos name I cant recall however these were and are British Virgin Island based..

they have lost money from day one of the orginal firms development of many city center "Malls" as they are now called the main point that i can see for the on going exsistance of this set up ( maybe a company account and lawer could explain better  ) is the finiacing and aquiring of company and the % of commision earned by those involved which with the restructruring just grows the real earners are the people in this not the shops that rent the premises (I know pension funds are Landords of shops BUT less so these centers as they are run diffrently ) I am at a loss as to how councils were lead down the road of these companies making clone centers all over UK with no real return yet it goes on and on    Low wage jobs and lots of import people for them recruited  abroad too, When I started in fitout I worked on the Hatfield center which was gonna be the best ever They went skint owed 1000`s turn went belly up (insolvent) Yet all there clever work allowed them to never pay there debt and carry on. e had to operate on paying for all supplies in advance and waiting it took years to recover ,my old boss lost his house in the effort to not lose face with guys like me and others .  it killed him he never got that buzz of pride back , I miss that sort honour 

This covid will kill of shops and other business and the pensions companies who gained an in come from them will suffer and so will we all 

Life is a Shit sandwich - The more bread you have the less you taste the Shit!

Sounds like those Private Equity firms which are pretty much morally bankrupt IMO. Little sympathy from me for people who view business simply as an opportunity to speculate and make money. I hope their workers on the ground will fare better. If the rich owners take a haircut who cares?

[Markus]

Mate of mine who worked in retail said if you offer free car parking customers will come, if you charge they will go else where. He worked in a shopping centre that charges 50p an hour parking, he said people would do a round trip of 20 miles to go to another centre that had free parking. I don’t get the economics of that.

Main reason people still flock to Brent Cross.  Nothing in that shopping centre is cheap but the free parking brings people in droves.  Re the amount of closures INTU was in big trouble pre-lockdown.  Clas Ohlsen used to have a fabulous store in the Watford branch, quality products at a fair price but they couldn’t afford the rent.  They do nothing to draw in more crowds and expect businesses to keep paying more rent.  I’m more intrigued by companies that are doing well in spite of the Coronavirus like Dunelm. They don’t position themselves in shopping centres which helps. I might buy some shares in them as they look an attractive prospect.

[conrod]

Not surprised at INTU troubles and I have no sympathy for it.  A business that lose 2 billion in a year shows that it had a bonkers business model.  The blame should also be placed on the banks for lending them the money based on it. 

[Private Parts]

Not surprised at INTU troubles and I have no sympathy for it.  A business that lose 2 billion in a year shows that it had a bonkers business model.  The blame should also be placed on the banks for lending them the money based on it.

Just desserts!
PP

[Chorley]

Main reason people still flock to Brent Cross.  Nothing in that shopping centre is cheap but the free parking brings people in droves.  Re the amount of closures INTU was in big trouble pre-lockdown.  Clas Ohlsen used to have a fabulous store in the Watford branch, quality products at a fair price but they couldn’t afford the rent.  They do nothing to draw in more crowds and expect businesses to keep paying more rent.  I’m more intrigued by companies that are doing well in spite of the Coronavirus like Dunelm. They don’t position themselves in shopping centres which helps. I might buy some shares in them as they look an attractive prospect.

Yep. And due to the location just of the M1, it serves a big area.

[GreyDave]

Sounds like those Private Equity firms which are pretty much morally bankrupt IMO. Little sympathy from me for people who view business simply as an opportunity to speculate and make money. I hope their workers on the ground will fare better. If the rich owners take a haircut who cares?

Just remembered they were Capital Shopping centres before Halrequin its just the re struturing guys that make money on taking cut WE the pension payers and Tax payers ultimately fund this as its deals like this that cause small bank fails ...There was a really shitty group of guys that set up and run Loans co. which made a BIG thing about being great employers ect pic in local paper celebrity vist ect sponsored local footie ...floated on AIM brought out by a Japanese company who when they looked at busines correctly realise theyd been sold a pup  whent to court over it  ( i think its still going on )  and the main guys took massive 25 plus millions out of what??? ( basicly cash browed created business of more debt which was unserviceable) brought local pubs and a fuckoff Masion with walled gates   How the hell do they get away with it???

[RogerBoner]

Its less to do with economics but psychology. We are not that rational, as shops discovered about the time of Adam.

In Yahweh's original Eden Centre it was a pomegranate rather than an apple that the naked lass pilfered.

[Ali Katt]

I would be surprised if HMV survive this time having been in liquidation once before.

I think they are doing OK due to vinyl sales. To survive you either have to be niche, offer better service or undercut on price. HMV doesn't do anything well, but if you want the latest Blu Ray, some boring 12" reissue of a crap 90s band or a t-shirt from some shit superhero franchise it's quite difficult to get all of that from one shop.

[Londonpunter30]

In Yahweh's original Eden Centre it was a pomegranate rather than an apple that the naked lass pilfered.

Never knew that, I’m not religious but always found the history of religious texts to be fascinating

[PepeMAGA]

I see it as similar to 2008, there were a number of companies hanging on for better times, then when bad times come they dont have the resilience or trust of the banks/lenders to survive.
INTU charge ridiculous sums for shop rental, which has probably done both themselves and companies like Debenhams.

[Xtro]

@ GreyDave

Watch this mate and see where the "business model" you're posting about regarding big business might fit into things.....
The Spider's Web: Britain's Second Empire (Documentary) - External Link/Members Only

If that tickled your fancy, watch this too..... (a bit off topic)
97% Owned, Economic Truth documentary - How is Money Created - External Link/Members Only

Never knew that, I’m not religious but always found the history of religious texts to be fascinating

You might find this interesting......(Warning - Contains scenes that you may find disturbing).....
Zeitgeist: The Movie - by Peter Joseph - External Link/Members Only

[lostandfound]

Just remembered they were Capital Shopping centres before Halrequin its just the re struturing guys that make money on taking cut WE the pension payers and Tax payers ultimately fund this as its deals like this that cause small bank fails ...There was a really shitty group of guys that set up and run Loans co. which made a BIG thing about being great employers ect pic in local paper celebrity vist ect sponsored local footie ...floated on AIM brought out by a Japanese company who when they looked at busines correctly realise theyd been sold a pup  whent to court over it  ( i think its still going on )  and the main guys took massive 25 plus millions out of what??? ( basicly cash browed created business of more debt which was unserviceable) brought local pubs and a fuckoff Masion with walled gates   How the hell do they get away with it???

Pension funds spread their risk. FTSE 100 for example is "only" down around 20%, so they'll have lost in some sectors, and gained in others - like the pharmas. They even invest a small proportion in the riskiest startups via intermediaries such as investment trusts which specialise in specific tech sectors.

[Trenlover]

Main reason people still flock to Brent Cross.  Nothing in that shopping centre is cheap but the free parking brings people in droves.  Re the amount of closures INTU was in big trouble pre-lockdown.  Clas Ohlsen used to have a fabulous store in the Watford branch, quality products at a fair price but they couldn’t afford the rent.  They do nothing to draw in more crowds and expect businesses to keep paying more rent.  I’m more intrigued by companies that are doing well in spite of the Coronavirus like Dunelm. They don’t position themselves in shopping centres which helps. I might buy some shares in them as they look an attractive prospect.

I agree free parking is a huge incentive.  I still enjoy going to shopping malls but ive no interest in paying anything for parking

[Ozy84]

A whole host going into administration today and easyjet cutting back to. Tm lewin, Harveys furniture, worrying times 

[GreyDave]

A whole host going into administration today and easyjet cutting back to. Tm lewin, Harveys furniture, worrying times 

Oh dear      Easyjet not exactly great to work for either most of their pilots of come up the self improvement route with the suspended ATPL so thir investment in staff is low

[myothernameis]

A whole host going into administration today and easyjet cutting back to. Tm lewin, Harveys furniture, worrying times 

I know of at least two shopping malls (Market Type) have gone into administration, and think a lot more shopping malls could follow

[Chorley]

Swissport's going as there's no requirement to service the airline industry.Massive job losses
to be expected. 

[myothernameis]

Swissport's going as there's no requirement to service the airline industry.Massive job losses
to be expected. 

Now when we all get back together, wonder if they will all get there jobs back.  Cant remember, what company this applies to, but the owner has said, he is going to have to pay most of his staff off.  But when we all get back to normal, there jobs are there's if they still need them, wonder if the airlines & airports will do this

 

[Markus]

I agree free parking is a huge incentive.  I still enjoy going to shopping malls but ive no interest in paying anything for parking

It should be scrapped. Greedy landlords of these malls just using the sums to further line their pockets.  The INTU in Watford is a prime example.  Parking is expensive and the spaces are small (so they can get more cars in).  Catch a train and it would cost you around £2.50 and save you an enormous amount of hassle.  Haven’t these malls heard of online shopping?  If you pay with PayPal sometimes you get free returns.  Airports should be next. Heathrow charging £8 for an hour. 

I am more interested in what the Prospect magazine dubbed creative destruction. Out of this pandemic is going to be new requirements for businesses (automated meat packaging is a prime example).  Think about the amount of folk that have now been forced in to contactless payment through reduction in cash transactions. 

[Goldfinch]

Wigan Athletic goes into Administration

External Link/Members Only

[GreyDave]

It should be scrapped. Greedy landlords of these malls just using the sums to further line their pockets.  The INTU in Watford is a prime example.  Parking is expensive and the spaces are small (so they can get more cars in).  Catch a train and it would cost you around £2.50 and save you an enormous amount of hassle.  Haven’t these malls heard of online shopping?  If you pay with PayPal sometimes you get free returns.  Airports should be next. Heathrow charging £8 for an hour. 

I am more interested in what the Prospect magazine dubbed creative destruction. Out of this pandemic is going to be new requirements for businesses (automated meat packaging is a prime example).  Think about the amount of folk that have now been forced in to contactless payment through reduction in cash transactions.

Trouble is a lot of pension companies have funded these places and the shops with in them so it joe average who will lose out  all ways  by loss of income from job and loss of growth in pension by the creative arragments of how it all works in the favor of a few off shore ers 

[Markus]

Trouble is a lot of pension companies have funded these places and the shops with in them so it joe average who will lose out  all ways  by loss of income from job and loss of growth in pension by the creative arragments of how it all works in the favor of a few off shore ers 

Shopping centres are simply unsustainable in their current format.  The amount of floor space M&S occupy in Watford INTU is mind boggling. I was there on a month end Saturday before the lockdown last year and it was so quiet.  The fact that on most online platforms you can choose your size online, get it delivered and returned for free in some instances and don’t have to leave the comfort of your home to do so makes large brick and mortar premises unaffordable.  I always believe that shopping centres should lure people in with free parking and some shops like John Lewis have in store only promotions.

[mh]

Trouble is a lot of pension companies have funded these places and the shops with in them

It isn't the fault of the pension funds per se. They invest in FTSE100/250 companies and all big business is based on borrowing now. Companies that are/were awash with cash get purchased in highly leveraged buyouts with cash returned to shareholders and the company loaded up with debts. The debt repayments don't cease just because business is bad. You know which companies have no pants on when the tide goes out, but in this unprecedented situation that's a lot of companies without pants! The winners in that situation are the ultimate landowners who have few real costs and those businesses that have (mostly accidentally) found themselves in a position to thrive in the lockdown.

[GreyDave]

The winners in that situation are the ultimate landowners who have few real costs and those businesses that have (mostly accidentally) found themselves in a position to thrive in the lockdown.

  Its because of C**TS like Greens Mrs and other offshore base co that still hold freeholds who DELIBRATLY did it as a creative accounting to line their pockets which you point out  but also to shag the shareholders  (which is what most firms boards have been doing since big bang ) as with diverse share holding comes lack of influnce on boards ( golden ring of Directors etc...)

 Not bitching  it was your landowners quote made me think of green and others of the FEW who have shafted the MANY  It would be nice if the French would reconize that boat as a Green Peace Vessel  (piece of Shite) and deal with it as they did in NZ. 

[mh]

Not bitching  it was your landowners quote made me think of green and others of the FEW who have shafted the MANY

Capitalism is meant to reward risk taking, but it has been subverted to the extent that it now only rewards "rent seeking". It is only the ultimate landowners who are risk free in this, intermediate property owners (mortgagees) are just as fucked as the businesses who rent from them. So shopping centre owners are screwed too. To those who have shall be given more...

[GreyDave]

Capitalism is meant to reward risk taking, but it has been subverted to the extent that it now only rewards "rent seeking". It is only the ultimate landowners who are risk free in this, intermediate property owners (mortgagees) are just as fucked as the businesses who rent from them. So shopping centre owners are screwed too. To those who have shall be given more...

mh    Now youve gawn and reminded me of the quote in Dr Zhvago.... Omar Sharif says to the statment.

 "The mob is angry! " ....." Well why dont you shoot a few landlords to cheer them up a bit!" 

[anyfucker]

Capitalism is meant to reward risk taking, but it has been subverted to the extent that it now only rewards "rent seeking". It is only the ultimate landowners who are risk free in this, intermediate property owners (mortgagees) are just as fucked as the businesses who rent from them. So shopping centre owners are screwed too. To those who have shall be given more...

Not completely risk free as they are the ones ultimately liable for business rates if the property is not let.
Heard last week lots of small solicitors will be going bust.

[GreyDave]

Heard last week lots of small solicitors will be going bust.

Not to sure on this but I thought if you went bust or did a crime you were stuck off ... .On a side note in the 1990`s I worked on building a small office block for a company which was owned by solicitors the company went bust owed the firm I was with 1000`s the boss wanted to deck them as they had done it delibrately and hid behind the limited company.....offices were used by said solicitors    Boss of my firm was warned never approach them as it would turn from a civil case to criminal and he would be the loser...   So is it them or the Limited companies they have set up to protect their Partnerships/ Sole trader  standing .

Maybe an Honest Lawer type on here could give the correct answer 

[Steve2]

Not to sure on this but I thought if you went bust or did a crime you were stuck off ... .On a side note in the 1990`s I worked on building a small office block for a company which was owned by solicitors the company went bust owed the firm I was with 1000`s the boss wanted to deck them as they had done it delibrately and hid behind the limited company.....offices were used by said solicitors    Boss of my firm was warned never approach them as it would turn from a civil case to criminal and he would be the loser...   So is it them or the Limited companies they have set up to protect their Partnerships/ Sole trader  standing .

Maybe an Honest Lawer type on here could give the correct answer 

 

[mh]

Not completely risk free as they are the ones ultimately liable for business rates if the property is not let.

I really mean the ultimate landowners, not the same as the built property owners.

[boffin]

Its a sign of the time, my Boss threatened to make everybody redundant if we did not accept a 10% wage cut, then turned up in a brand new Jag  and there was nothing that we could do about it.