Author Topic: Another government IT project fails  (Read 2284 times)

Offline King Nuts

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Wonder how much of our hard-earned has been pissed away so far. The NHS's failed National Programme for IT in the late 2000s allegedly burned through £12 billion with absolutely fuck-all to show for it.


(If only there were some already-tested, off-the-shelf Covid tracing apps that other countries have developed....)


Offline kippydon

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Wonder how much of our hard-earned has been pissed away so far. The NHS's failed National Programme for IT in the late 2000s allegedly burned through £12 billion with absolutely fuck-all to show for it.


(If only there were some already-tested, off-the-shelf Covid tracing apps that other countries have developed....)

This Government has messed up up on all fronts and how difficult is it to get an APP running, it shocking really

we are supposed to have some of the brightest IT guys and girls, where are they all
 

Offline Colston36

This Government has messed up up on all fronts and how difficult is it to get an APP running, it shocking really

we are supposed to have some of the brightest IT guys and girls, where are they all

I think the problem is that people go into politics as a career. They have never done anything "real" - just got ahead by being good at bullshit. They know nothing about the realities of paying to get things done - like finding the right partners. And they never spend their own money - just ours. An amazing number have rich backgrounds. Boris went to Eton. Corbyn was as rich as Croesus. Starmer was a lawyer; never had anything to with commerce. Raab? Another lawyer.

Offline kuck

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Ours is a government that was elected on utterly nonsensical propaganda. Their main and only skill is public relations.

The problem with bluetooth going to sleep after 15 minutes was well known. Our government either believed in its own propaganda of English exceptionalism, or just wanted to give cash handouts to Cum's friends to build a fake app.

In contrast Germany, a country led by a scientist, decided 2 months ago to abandon their own app in favour of one that worked on the Google/Apple agreed APIs that actually worked. Of course, Germany's app isn't perfect, for example, it doesn't work on the iPhone 6 or below. But then ours is a pile of Bozo poo.

Offline winkywanky

Despite Boris's cheery bluster at the top, it does seem llike every day brings just another fuck-up or obfuscation which makes them (and the UK) look like idiots.

At some point the book(s) will be written of what went on, and when it's all put together as a sequence of events it won't look good. I personally have cut the govt a lot of slack because this is all very new and unexpected, but we just seem to be lurching from one fiasco to the next  :unknown:.

They just look like a bunch of amateurs, rabbits in the headlights.

Offline kuck

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... I personally have cut the govt a lot of slack because this is all very new and unexpected, but we just seem to be lurching from one fiasco to the next  :unknown:.

I agree. Despite not voting for them, I strongly defended them (to my liberal friends) at the start of the lockdown.

Offline King Nuts

Ours is a government that was elected on utterly nonsensical propaganda. Their main and only skill is public relations.

The problem with bluetooth going to sleep after 15 minutes was well known. Our government either believed in its own propaganda of English exceptionalism, or just wanted to give cash handouts to Cum's friends to build a fake app.

In contrast Germany, a country led by a scientist, decided 2 months ago to abandon their own app in favour of one that worked on the Google/Apple agreed APIs that actually worked. Of course, Germany's app isn't perfect, for example, it doesn't work on the iPhone 6 or below. But then ours is a pile of Bozo poo.

Following this logic, maybe it's time to dispense with politicians and politics and get 'scientists' to run things for us.

I can see that working out very well.



Offline King Nuts

Despite Boris's cheery bluster at the top, it does seem llike every day brings just another fuck-up or obfuscation which makes them (and the UK) look like idiots.

At some point the book(s) will be written of what went on, and when it's all put together as a sequence of events it won't look good. I personally have cut the govt a lot of slack because this is all very new and unexpected, but we just seem to be lurching from one fiasco to the next  :unknown:.

They just look like a bunch of amateurs, rabbits in the headlights.

I'm hardly an apologist for this government, but it's easy to see how they get pulled from pillar to post. On the one hand, there's the 'science' which seems to be all over the place, and is inevitably dominated by the doom-mongering subset who are in perpetual pursuit of funding. Then there's the media, which increasingly seems to be made up of people who are as thick as they are hysterical, and amongst all that, I sense that Boris, though a person of strong and often correct instinct, ultimately lacks the strengths of his convictions and finds it hard to be decisive.

And on top of that, the damn virus has taken it all out of him. The guy is clearly not himself, even now.


Offline scutty brown

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It was known the UK app could not be made compatible with Apple phones three months ago, BEFORE the government decided to adopt and trial it. Doomed to failure before they began

Offline winkywanky

I'm hardly an apologist for this government, but it's easy to see how they get pulled from pillar to post. On the one hand, there's the 'science' which seems to be all over the place, and is inevitably dominated by the doom-mongering subset who are in perpetual pursuit of funding. Then there's the media, which increasingly seems to be made up of people who are as thick as they are hysterical, and amongst all that, I sense that Boris, though a person of strong and often correct instinct, ultimately lacks the strengths of his convictions and finds it hard to be decisive.

And on top of that, the damn virus has taken it all out of him. The guy is clearly not himself, even now.


I totally understand the pillar-to-post thing, they're stuck in the middle of two strongly polarised camps, one wanting to open up, the other are scared as shit. But it's the world class this and the world class that which does my head in.

It's impossible to know currently whether everything that's gone wrong has been due to incompetence but as time goes on the cracks are showing.

As for the press, often they ask stupid questions because those stupid questions are the ones the public keep wanting to ask. They have to represent the public in times like these. Just like politicians though, some journalists give off a feel of commonsense and reliability, others seem shrieky and shallow.

We've also seen a lot of new journalists who've apparently come out of nowhere since CV began, only about half of them seem any good, although it always takes time to learn your chops and it's pretty tough live, on air.

Re: Boris, you have a point, I can't see anything obvious but certainly anyone whose life was in the balance just a few weeks ago must be a little fragile just beneath the surface.

Offline Strawberry

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The government are in a very difficult position, as I see it they have to keep the public going, they have to instruct us into order and place and really do not know what will happen. All they can do is their best.

However I have been aware for a long time that there's a lot of blag and spin going on which, I don't like proposals are made to give hope but  my sense is they are winging it every single day.

Not a criticism.

And at risk of trying not to be political, I am a lefty BUT I see the good in all parties even Mrs T who I was brought up to hate. Woman on a mission who had a vision. Read her biography, seen the film.

Also get a good idea many of those giving the daily briefs have been, continue to be terrified I don't think they ever imagined they'd be standing up in front of the nation giving daily updates and instruction.

Media are just the media.

Offline Doc Holliday

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It was known the UK app could not be made compatible with Apple phones three months ago, BEFORE the government decided to adopt and trial it. Doomed to failure before they began

Apparently so. The government were informed of the software clash in April but the reply was that they thought their app would be better so they carried on. Let's face it little is compatible with Apple unless it is Apple.

Offline Beamer

Apparently so. The government were informed of the software clash in April but the reply was that they thought their app would be better so they carried on. Let's face it little is compatible with Apple unless it is Apple.

It's a strange world at the moment where a proven liar (Hancock) can influence the main decisions about issues that we then have to work around in what is fast becoming an unusual life rather than the normality we hope for.
So, Hancock knows much more than Apple.
If you wrote a book about some of the decisions this so called cabinet are making you wouldn't get past first read as it would be deemed as too unbelievable.

Offline winkywanky

Apparently so. The government were informed of the software clash in April but the reply was that they thought their app would be better so they carried on. Let's face it little is compatible with Apple unless it is Apple.


You'd think enough of them would have teenaged kids to tell them this  :rolleyes:.

Offline Doc Holliday

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You'd think enough of them would have teenaged kids to tell them this  :rolleyes:.

 :D

Offline Xtro

Despite Boris's cheery bluster at the top, it does seem llike every day brings just another fuck-up or obfuscation which makes them (and the UK) look like idiots.

At some point the book(s) will be written of what went on, and when it's all put together as a sequence of events it won't look good. I personally have cut the govt a lot of slack because this is all very new and unexpected, but we just seem to be lurching from one fiasco to the next  :unknown:.

They just look like a bunch of amateurs, rabbits in the headlights.

How can you cut Boris any slack? He's a Bullingdon Club boy!   :thumbsdown:



Offline Adoniron

The government doesn't like buying anything foreign and orders to prove we can do things ourselves. This usually involves giving money to their mates to design or build something which doesn't work. On a similar note I see we have just abandoned our alternative to the European Galileo global navigation satellite system.

Offline King Nuts

He's a Bullingdon Club boy! 

You too? That makes three of us then.


Offline lostandfound

I know I shouldn't laugh, but this is so typical of corporate IT and the arrogance of corporate culture.

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Offline ronald237

The idea of my phone talking to others near by not knowing what small bit of code is going to worm its way in and pass sensitive data on with out me knowing. No thank you. Some teenager will surly work out away that the boffins haven't thought of. Will be turning bluetooth and wifi off unless im in the house and need to use it.

Offline PepeMAGA

Following this logic, maybe it's time to dispense with politicians and politics and get 'scientists' to run things for us.

I can see that working out very well.

The Government have been following Scientific advice since before the lockdown.

Offline PepeMAGA

If you look on your phone under settings, google, part of the app is already installed.

Offline Strawberry

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If you look on your phone under settings, google, part of the app is already installed.

I discovered this last night.

Offline ilovekungfu

If you look on your phone under settings, google, part of the app is already installed.

This isn't quite correct. The latest versions of iOS / Android have the code in them which approved contract tracing apps are able to use. However it is disabled until you install one. The settings options are there so you can easily disable it if you choose to do so.

(I'm an app developer by trade)

Offline David1970

If you look on your phone under settings, google, part of the app is already installed.

I take it this was done under some terms you agreed to a while ago or when you got the phone and not down loaded without consent.
If you have your location switched off within have any effect?

Offline mh

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Someone did the maths and the cost to the government for this failed app indicates that there must have been 200 developers working on it (in addition to managers/admins) for the whole duration of the development. Such an app could be developed with a team of 5 to 10 people. Any more makes it harder not easier.

More likely of course is that the government overpaid by a factor of 10 for the app, conned by a mate of Dom's. And it never would have worked anyway.

While listening to ministers, by the way, bear in mind that there is no App from Google or Apple, only an API that allows a contact tracing app to be developed.

And far from NHSX having some dynamite code that Google or Apple are lusting after because it is so good, they have no need for it and could have developed the distance measuring code over a lunch break. It's just Raab face saving with ludicrous claims that are impossible for journos to fact check during an interview.

Just like herd immunity, they are now scrambling to rewrite history with "we backed both horses". Laughable.

Offline mh

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This isn't quite correct. The latest versions of iOS / Android have the code in them which approved contract tracing apps are able to use. However it is disabled until you install one. The settings options are there so you can easily disable it if you choose to do so.

(I'm an app developer by trade)

Yes, the required APIs have been included in updates for IOS and Android but they do nothing on their own.

Offline King Nuts

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I know this paywall'd but a free subscription makes it available. If not, the key bit is here:

This crisis has shown that the British state couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery. The state has become bloated and incompetent. In 1920, about 4,000 civil servants in Westminster led an empire spanning 13.7 million square miles and encompassing over 400 million people. Public Health England alone has 5,500 staff and can’t even stop a single infectious disease outbreak, their foremost function.

Some now want to perfect the state, to improve the bureaucracy, to bring in new management. This has been tried previously, but with little success. The issue is rarely the individuals, but rather the gargantuan and heavily centralised structures combined with a risk-averse and unresponsive culture.

We need a state that does fewer things, but does them much better. We need a state that is much better at leaning on private sector expertise. We need a state less centralised in Whitehall. If we don’t fix the state, the failures will just keep stacking up.


Offline PepeMAGA

I take it this was done under some terms you agreed to a while ago or when you got the phone and not down loaded without consent.
If you have your location switched off within have any effect?
I guess it must have been installed as part of a system update, though I cant remember anything coming up.

Offline ilovekungfu

I take it this was done under some terms you agreed to a while ago or when you got the phone and not down loaded without consent.
If you have your location switched off within have any effect?

On iPhones, the setting option will have appeared from iOS 13.5. Not sure on Android off-hand. It has nothing to with location and won't do *anything* unless you install an app developed specifically for contact tracing by a Government or Health Authority that uses it. There won't be more than one of these per country in the respective app store.

Without going into details, the system is based on rolling anonymous identifiers and will have no need to ask you for access to your location. The previous UK app asked you for the first part of your process but that was only to track adoption of the app.

Offline scutty brown

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FWIW the NHS app was actually sourced from VMWare, it wasn't done internally

Offline Digby232

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I’m in business and believe me you pray for a nhs or gov contract. They pay well over the going rate. NH S short of money? So how come they paid me 4 times more than any other company would have for similar contract? Not just this gov but has happened for years. Same with local councils. Not their money I suppose so who cares as long as job done!
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Offline King Nuts

I’m in business and believe me you pray for a nhs or gov contract. They pay well over the going rate. NH S short of money? So how come they paid me 4 times more than any other company would have for similar contract? Not just this gov but has happened for years. Same with local councils. Not their money I suppose so who cares as long as job done!

You've got to hand it to the NHS. They piss our money away and yet manage to get millions of people clapping for them every week.

It's quite a coup.



Offline mh

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FWIW the NHS app was actually sourced from VMWare, it wasn't done internally

So we've just handed millions over to a subsidiary of a US software giant for a job that could be done by a team of 10 using boilerplate design from the OS vendor. Cool.

Offline mh

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This crisis has shown that the British state couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery. The state has become bloated and incompetent.

Never a Tory government's fault, though. The State, The Elite, The Blob, The Opposition. But never the actual government who have been in power for more than a decade while  carrying on the pretence of being a "new" administration when it suits.

Offline King Nuts

Never a Tory government's fault, though. The State, The Elite, The Blob, The Opposition. But never the actual government who have been in power for more than a decade while  carrying on the pretence of being a "new" administration when it suits.

The Tories are as bad as the rest of them. They nominally trade upon the notions of 'conservatism', smaller government and all the rest, but it's just a bit of froth on the top of the sclerotic machine of state that doesn't know how to change and resists it even when forced to.

Look at Public Health England. Over 5,000 employees, budget of £300 million, whose specific job was and is to avoid or at least minimise pandemics like the one we're going through. And they have failed epically. What is the fucking point of having something like PHE if it doesn't actually work?

Offline PepeMAGA

Never a Tory government's fault, though. The State, The Elite, The Blob, The Opposition. But never the actual government who have been in power for more than a decade while  carrying on the pretence of being a "new" administration when it suits.
yes, a Corbyn government would have been much more frugal and tech savvie.  :rolleyes:

Offline Adoniron

yes, a Corbyn government would have been much more frugal and tech savvie.  :rolleyes:

Not the point is it. You expect competence and efficiency from the Tories but they have been hopeless.

Offline King Nuts

Not the point is it. You expect competence and efficiency from the Tories but they have been hopeless.

This is the battle that Dominic Cummings has been having with the Cabinet, the Civil Service and all the other organs of the state. He's fighting for reform and has been for some time.

Unfortunately and yet unsurprisingly, the same mob, aided by the useless media, all turn against him at every opportunity.

Offline David1970

This is the battle that Dominic Cummings has been having with the Cabinet, the Civil Service and all the other organs of the state. He's fighting for reform and has been for some time.

Unfortunately and yet unsurprisingly, the same mob, aided by the useless media, all turn against him at every opportunity.

This is the man “that drives 60 miles to test his eyes“ with his wife on her birthday.
He made the rules, broke the rules, then lied on live TV and got way with it.
Don’t blame everyone else for him being a cunt.

Offline King Nuts

This is the man “that drives 60 miles to test his eyes“ with his wife on her birthday.
He made the rules, broke the rules, then lied on live TV and got way with it.
Don’t blame everyone else for him being a cunt.

If one can get past that absurd incident, the man's actually been trying valiantly to do a good job.

But of course, if you can't get past it, and you think the Civil Service and the machinery of state are all good things, and working at maximum efficiency for the benefit of all, then sure, call him a cunt and hope he goes and runs a fruit stand or something.

Offline David1970

If one can get past that absurd incident, the man's actually been trying valiantly to do a good job.

But of course, if you can't get past it, and you think the Civil Service and the machinery of state are all good things, and working at maximum efficiency for the benefit of all, then sure, call him a cunt and hope he goes and runs a fruit stand or something.

He went on national TV and lied,  thought we were all fools and would believe him, he thinks he is better than us and does not need to follow the rules he made. The Tory leaderships and you may think the sun shines out of his lying ass, but I don’t.

Offline King Nuts

He went on national TV and lied,  thought we were all fools and would believe him, he thinks he is better than us and does not need to follow the rules he made. The Tory leaderships and you may think the sun shines out of his lying ass, but I don’t.

This is just more conjecture. Am not going to open the can of Cummings worms again.

Offline David1970

This is just more conjecture. Am not going to open the can of Cummings worms again.

No it’s not,

If had been one of Corbyns  band of idiots, making the rules, breaking the rules, lying on live TV and treating the public like fools, you would have been all over it like a rash as I would have been.

Offline Xtro

If one can get past that absurd incident, the man's actually been trying valiantly to do a good job.

But of course, if you can't get past it, and you think the Civil Service and the machinery of state are all good things, and working at maximum efficiency for the benefit of all, then sure, call him a cunt and hope he goes and runs a fruit stand or something.

He is a CUNT! 

Offline kuck

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He is a CUNT!

He is a lying cunt. A lying cunt with an uncanny ability to hoodwink the gullible.

Offline David1970

He is a lying cunt. A lying cunt with an uncanny ability to hoodwink the gullible.

+1

Offline kuck

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Looks like our world beating government is using our money to invest in Oneweb. A satellite company that's already filed for bankruptcy. This is for satnav as we won't be allowed on the European External Link/Members Only system.

Only one slight problem, Oneweb doesn't make satellites for geolocation.  :lol: :lol: :lol: :D
Another slight problem, if satnav is going to be provided by a US company, why not just use GPS?

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Offline David1970

Looks like our world beating government is using our money to invest in Oneweb. A satellite company that's already filed for bankruptcy. This is for satnav as we won't be allowed on the European External Link/Members Only system.

Only one slight problem, Oneweb doesn't make satellites for geolocation.  :lol: :lol: :lol: :D
Another slight problem, if satnav is going to be provided by a US company, why not just use GPS?

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Good post Kuck, with good information.

I notice Dominic Cummings is the person behind this waste of money, I can believe this man is still running the country.