A tiny victory for common sense.

[David1970]

I still don't  see anything to substantiate your claim, the French surrendered because they were beaten by a vastly superior army with modern warfare techniques, ie radios in every tank, airborne artillery etc.  The French were still using dispatch riders to communicate with generals miles behind the front lines.
Then you say the communists we not proper resistance fighters.

The French had large reserves they did not use in the fighting, the majority of forces that faced the Nazis, retreated  fast. The reason the BEF had to retreat fro Belgium was the French had run away in eastern France letting the Nazis, come up behind the BEF. A large French army group sat south of Paris but never so action just surrender to the Nazis.

After the Nazis invasion of the Soviet Union the Comintern activated the Communists in France to sabotage the Nazis, they were the only effective resistance. After D-Day the Communist did ease of their attacks as they stockpiled arms hoping to take power after the liberation   

The British could not afford the French fleet at Mers-el-Kébir to join the Nazi and Italian fleets in the Mediterranean as they would have cut British supples to Egypt and Malta. The Royal Navy offered the French 3 options, join us in the fight against the Axis, sail to the West India’s and remain neutral or join the Axis under Vichy regime and be sunk. The French choose to side with the Axis Vichy regime against the British, the Royal Navy neutralised them in a one sided battle.
Yet again the French were shown to be collaborators, as they were in Syria and in France it’s self.

[winkywanky]

You know, I am positive the woke warriors will say I cannot possibly put myself in the place of ‘persons of colour’ so have no right to comment, but I am sure were I one of these such persons I would laugh at such terminology rather than go all trembly over it.  I have had plenty of experience of abuse on here.  Unfortunately for them it is like water off a duck’s back. (I know, it isn’t the same.  )

I don’t suppose many are old enough or regional enough to remember the Barnsley black comedian Charlie Williams of ‘Comedians’ tv show. His whole act was predominantly based on his colour, which of course was rare in Barnsley at the time. He would make quips such as, If you upset me I’ll move in next door to you.’

Of course now, despite his colour, his act would be deemed ‘racist’ by the thought police as it pandered to white attitudes
I can understand that no white comedian at the time would have to base his act on the cold of his skin.

Old Charlie was still quite funny tho! 

I met Charlie Williams. Lovely guy. At the time his humour broke down a lot of barriers IMO.

Lenny Henry would see him as an Uncle Tom I presume.

[NIK]

I met Charlie Williams. Lovely guy. At the time his humour broke down a lot of barriers IMO.

Lenny Henry would see him as an Uncle Tom I presume.

You are showing your age!
Where and when did you meet him?

[winkywanky]

I was at a Motocross event up in Cheshire. He was the attending celeb. I got his autograph. Really, really lovely guy.

Would have been about 1974.

[winkywanky]

And yes, he called me flower 

[scutty brown]

The French had large reserves they did not use in the fighting, the majority of forces that faced the Nazis, retreated  fast. The reason the BEF had to retreat fro Belgium was the French had run away in eastern France letting the Nazis, come up behind the BEF. A large French army group sat south of Paris but never so action just surrender to the Nazis.

After the Nazis invasion of the Soviet Union the Comintern activated the Communists in France to sabotage the Nazis, they were the only effective resistance. After D-Day the Communist did ease of their attacks as they stockpiled arms hoping to take power after the liberation   

The British could not afford the French fleet at Mers-el-Kébir to join the Nazi and Italian fleets in the Mediterranean as they would have cut British supples to Egypt and Malta. The Royal Navy offered the French 3 options, join us in the fight against the Axis, sail to the West India’s and remain neutral or join the Axis under Vichy regime and be sunk. The French choose to side with the Axis Vichy regime against the British, the Royal Navy neutralised them in a one sided battle.
Yet again the French were shown to be collaborators, as they were in Syria and in France it’s self.

Much of that is left wing communist revisionism

[David1970]

Much of that is left wing communist revisionism

A sweeping and inaccurate comment
You want to explain which bits of it are?

 

[tesla]

A sweeping and inaccurate comment
You want to explain which bits of it are?

you have yet to substantiate your claim of " the majority of French were collaborators" you have pointed out some instances, but surrendering to a superior force is not collaboration, yes the French government capitulated to the Nazi threat, but that is not the whole population.

 

[David1970]

you have yet to substantiate your claim of " the majority of French were collaborators" you have pointed out some instances, but surrendering to a superior force is not collaboration, yes the French government capitulated to the Nazi threat, but that is not the whole population.

The vast majority of the french population went along with the Vichy government in being the stooges of the Nazis, only in mid 1941 did the communists start resistance after the Soviet Union was invaded by the Nazis ( their allies until the invasion) . The communist stopped being serious resistance players in mid 1944.
I have given you examples of the French forces fighting against the allies and for the Nazis in Syria, the French navy willing to join the Axis forces.
The French only rebelled any numbers in 1943 when they were called for labour conscription in Germany. Most them hid in the hills and some took up arms.
De Gauls forces were free French and they had a very small support in France until 1943 when it was obvious who was going to win and labour conscription was brought in.

[daviemac]

How has this gone from discussing comedy TV programs being withdrawn from viewing to arguing about who did what in the second world war.   

[David1970]

How has this gone from discussing comedy TV programs being withdrawn from viewing to arguing about who did what in the second world war.   

Ok I will shut up

[LLPunting]

No, easily enough found. Anyway, this is far funnier.

External Link/Members Only

This popped up as the follow on:
External Link/Members Only

[willie loman]

Ok I will shut up

You were the one talking sense.

[B4bcock]

How has this gone from discussing comedy TV programs being withdrawn from viewing to arguing about who did what in the second world war.   

"Don't mention the War . . . I did just now, but I think I got away with it!"

[daviemac]

"Don't mention the War . . . I did just now, but I think I got away with it!"

[mr.bluesky]

Listening to the radio the other day "Oliver's Army" by Elvis Costello was played but I noticed the verse containing the lyrics
" all it takes is one itchy trigger, one more widow one less white n****r" had been completely removed.  The snowflakes have truly won

[B4bcock]

The snowflakes have truly won

Surely, in these ultra woke days, they should be referred to as 'flakes of an unspecified colour' or something similar.   

[Private Parts]

The French don’t like being reminded that the vast majority of them were Vichy collaborator, all swept under the carpet.

Can you prove that statement.
Bit like saying all Brits were blackshirts.
Fatuous comment
 

[Ali Katt]

I met Charlie Williams. Lovely guy. At the time his humour broke down a lot of barriers IMO.

Lenny Henry would see him as an Uncle Tom I presume.

Was Lenny Henry political when he started out? His act seemed to consist of shouting loudly in a Birmingham accent. I mention it in past tense as he doesn't do stand up anymore.

[David1970]

Can you prove that statement.
Bit like saying all Brits were blackshirts.
Fatuous comment
 

Reference replies 59 & 60

[RedKettle]

Reference replies 59 & 60

I hope you are not a history teacher because you really need to improve your research.  Try reading a few proper textbooks on the period.  The French were militarily terrible at the start of the war but to put the spin on it you are saying is utter crap.

[David1970]

I hope you are not a history teacher because you really need to improve your research.  Try reading a few proper textbooks on the period.  The French were militarily terrible at the start of the war but to put the spin on it you are saying is utter crap.

Reference answer #69

[winkywanky]

Listening to the radio the other day "Oliver's Army" by Elvis Costello was played but I noticed the verse containing the lyrics
" all it takes is one itchy trigger, one more widow one less white n****r" had been completely removed.  The snowflakes have truly won

Ironic, since the song is ripping the piss out of British Imperialism.

[winkywanky]

Was Lenny Henry political when he started out? His act seemed to consist of shouting loudly in a Birmingham accent. I mention it in past tense as he doesn't do stand up anymore.

No, he seemed to suddenly become aware of racial politics around 20yrs ago.

[Adoniron]

No, he seemed to suddenly become aware of racial politics around 20yrs ago.

Probably when he got involved in Comic Relief etc. To be fair he was just a daft lad when he started out. You would hope and expect anyone would grow up and mature over time.

[winkywanky]

Probably when he got involved in Comic Relief etc. To be fair he was just a daft lad when he started out. You would hope and expect anyone would grow up and mature over time.

True, but he's got very political. I don't really like politics in comedy (apart from the usual bit of satire and piss-taking of the govt of the day). I find it very boring  .

[Ali Katt]

True, but he's got very political. I don't really like politics in comedy (apart from the usual bit of satire and piss-taking of the govt of the day). I find it very boring  .

Odd isn't it? Even Ben Elton and Alexei Sayle have dropped most of the political stuff because it is old hat or maybe because it would be a bit sad doing student politics now. I thought the Thick of It was good, but that is dated now and it's only 15 years old, we expect things like Yes, Minister to be of their time. I also like Armando Iannucci best when he does his silly jokes rather than satire. It's sort of gone full circle where as you had Alexei Sayle shouting "Thatcher is bastard" in the 80s at the comedy store, now you have John Oliver or Chris Addison or whoever basically saying "Trump is a cunt" on Twitter. It just seems a bit pathetic, rebels without a clue.

[NIK]

Odd isn't it? Even Ben Elton and Alexei Sayle have dropped most of the political stuff because it is old hat or maybe because it would be a bit sad doing student politics now. I thought the Thick of It was good, but that is dated now and it's only 15 years old, we expect things like Yes, Minister to be of their time. I also like Armando Iannucci best when he does his silly jokes rather than satire. It's sort of gone full circle where as you had Alexei Sayle shouting "Thatcher is bastard" in the 80s at the comedy store, now you have John Oliver or Chris Addison or whoever basically saying "Trump is a cunt" on Twitter. It just seems a bit pathetic, rebels without a clue.

Is there anyone who actually liked Sayle? Most people I knew at the time thought he spoiled The Young Ones. And I just found him a loud, overbearing cunt who was even more irritating than Ben Elton. Never met anyone who seemed to like him.

[winkywanky]

Is there anyone who actually liked Sayle? Most people I knew at the time thought he spoiled The Young Ones. And I just found him a loud, overbearing cunt who was even more irritating than Ben Elton. Never met anyone who seemed to like him.

I saw him on Tour at my local cinema very early on. Also at the Comedy Store now I come to think about it.

His shouty, loud delivery, the whole hello John, got a new motah thing had me in stitches. It was the delivery, it was the way he looked, the whole thing. We'd never seen anything like it before, it was like punk comedy if you will.

Of course once you'd seen it a few times the appeal waned somewhat. But the first couple of years he was around, very funny IMO.

[Davey Dykes]

I liked Alexi Sayle, this is a particulary fine example of his work.

External Link/Members Only

[scutty brown]

Is there anyone who actually liked Sayle? Most people I knew at the time thought he spoiled The Young Ones. And I just found him a loud, overbearing cunt who was even more irritating than Ben Elton. Never met anyone who seemed to like him.

I agree with you. His intermissions of loudmouthed irrelevance ruined the show

[scutty brown]

The vast majority of the french population went along with the Vichy government in being the stooges of the Nazis, only in mid 1941 did the communists start resistance after the Soviet Union was invaded by the Nazis ( their allies until the invasion) . The communist stopped being serious resistance players in mid 1944.
I have given you examples of the French forces fighting against the allies and for the Nazis in Syria, the French navy willing to join the Axis forces.
The French only rebelled any numbers in 1943 when they were called for labour conscription in Germany. Most them hid in the hills and some took up arms.
De Gauls forces were free French and they had a very small support in France until 1943 when it was obvious who was going to win and labour conscription was brought in.

read Churchills history of the war.
You'll see you are wrong on many counts

[bbois77]

read Churchills history of the war.
You'll see you are wrong on many counts

Have to agree, the French lost far soldiers more in WWI than  the British. The whole nation was traumatised.

As ever an army is only as good as its generals (remember lions led by donkeys in British army), Frances were not up to task, politicos let them down too.

Unfortunately, no other European army were a match for the Germans, including the British. Hence the miracle of Dunkirk and the RAF being able to stymy German plans to invade GB, the rest is history.

The French collaborated to a point, much like the Channel Isles did.

[Adoniron]

There were collaborators in all nations. In Poland (which had a long history of anti-Semitism) some of the people were more than happy to betray their Jewish neighbours and even to work for the Nazis. Contrast this with those Poles who escaped to the UK and fought with distinction in the Battle of Britain. In Yugoslavia and other Eastern European countries plenty sided with the Nazis while others resisted them from the outset.

[Ali Katt]

Remember lads history is written by winners, read by losers.

[Ali Katt]

Is there anyone who actually liked Sayle? Most people I knew at the time thought he spoiled The Young Ones. And I just found him a loud, overbearing cunt who was even more irritating than Ben Elton. Never met anyone who seemed to like him.

Yes, me. His books are also really well written. Massive influence on Jerry Sadowitz who is probably my favourite comedian.

[winkywanky]

Wow, whatever happened to him? Never see him anymore on TV. Presumably he's still working (and by that, I mean not in McDonalds)?

[Ali Katt]

Wow, whatever happened to him? Never see him anymore on TV. Presumably he's still working (and by that, I mean not in McDonalds)?

Mainly writing and occasionally turning up to review the arts.

[winkywanky]

I vaguely remember him doing Stand-Up on late night TV or something.

What was his favourite subject/style? Was he political? If it doesn't sound too stupid he looked like he kind of ought to be.

[Ali Katt]

I vaguely remember him doing Stand-Up on late night TV or something.

What was his favourite subject/style? Was he political? If it doesn't sound too stupid he looked like he kind of ought to be.

Alexei Sayle:
The one I read was short stories I forget what it is called but it had an ice cream on the front photographed by Martin Parr. Sort of surreal, comedy stories definitely well written.

His stand up as mentioned is shouty and aggressive with a lot of ranting about Thatcher and people in general. his TV series stuff was on YouTube in its entirety at one point, it's sort of dated, but like a lot 9f sketch shows there's some good bits in there.

[winkywanky]

I meant Sadowitz.

[Ali Katt]

I meant Sadowitz.

I wasn't sure. Sadowitz is a brilliant close up magician especially card tricks, arguably one of the best living magicians at card tricks. He modelled himself on Derek and Clive. What he has said is he plays what is basically a drunk Glaswegian who puts the world to rights. So what you get is racism,  angry rants and sexism. When it came to Jimmy Savile jokes he just seemed ahead of anyone else. is he racist, sexist or extremist? No I think he is more apathetic than anything. His stuff gets taken down quickly by him, I think I saw the Pall Bearers Revue on YouTube 10 years ago.

[winkywanky]

I forgot the magic bit  .

Sounds like he's not for today's times. Shame. With a name like Sadowitz I doubt whether he's actually racist going by what you've said, more controversial. I like that kind of outrageous comedian but there'll be no place for him whatsoever in today's climate.

[Ali Katt]

I forgot the magic bit  .

Sounds like he's not for today's times. Shame. With a name like Sadowitz I doubt whether he's actually racist going by what you've said, more controversial. I like that kind of outrageous comedian but there'll be no place for him whatsoever in today's climate.

If there not on TV, there's usually a reason why and sometimes it's just down to fashion which is why you don't see Jasper Carrot or Jimmy Cricket. It is obviously absurd satire, but it's difficult to grasp if people think it's really him. A bit like Andrew Dice Clay or Ricky Gervais when he first started. Comedy needs to be challenging and I think most comedians have been saying the same things for four decades now. In music and film there has been far more innovation, but theatre not so much and I know there's only so many ways to tell a joke.

[winkywanky]

Perhaps it will go full circle? Who knows  .

But I guess some things are never coming back, and that's possibly not a bad thing.

[Ali Katt]

Perhaps it will go full circle? Who knows  .

But I guess some things are never coming back, and that's possibly not a bad thing.

Television drama I guess is getting better. Everything else is worse, a talent show with dancing dogs and impersonators is one of the most popular programs. I was hoping we got rid of that in the 90s. Or patronising documentaries that give recaps after the ad break.

[Boundless]

Some of the meals served up in those cookery programmes need a health warning.

What if they are meat or fish?  I'm sure that the Vegans are upset.

And if the chef happens to be;

Hidden Image/Members Only

Nigella Lawson...

Oh fuck me yes!!

Love watching her programme with her suggestive winks and pouts at the camera.
Def of the dominant milf type. Come here boy if you think you're hard enough!!

[Ali Katt]

Just heard Fawlty’s ‘Germans’ is to be re-instated.
Thought they would edit it, but apparently they are giving extra ‘guidance’ and warnings. 

I don’t think I have seen a single programme after the watershed for years without a warning of some kind suggesting some viewers may be ‘upset’.
This suggests there are an awful lot of fragile, sensitive souls out there these days, and begs the question why would you continue to watch something that ‘upsets’ you?

The other thing is that Cleese was of course satirising attitudes such as those of the Major, just as Johnny Speight did with Alf Garnet.
Naturally this is beyond the comprehension of the humourless thought police for whom satire and humour have no place in their rigid view of the world.

When are they going to reissue the first series of Only Fools with references to West Indian people left intact?

[King Nuts]

Wow, whatever happened to him? Never see him anymore on TV. Presumably he's still working (and by that, I mean not in McDonalds)?

Spotted in Goldhawk Road W12 some years ago.

External Link/Members Only

[Kingy28]

Spotted in Goldhawk Road W12 some years ago.

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A Scouse communist doing a fake cockney accent. What's not to like eh?