Author Topic: A curious silence.  (Read 2685 times)

Offline willie loman

Back in the day this forum was 95% anti McCann, they were guilty, the hostility towards them from some posters was unhinged, I took the view that they were innocent, still hold that view. 

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My view has not changed - we don't know the FACTS of what happened and still don't even with the new info from Germany. BUT - whatever the facts of her disappearance are, I cannot help thinking that the fact that they left her in an unlocked house at her age and were out of view of her whilst they went to dinner, was unforgiveable. Perhaps not criminal but unforgivable.

I think some people also found it more difficult to believe that the parents weren't in some way "invloved" in her disappearance because they were "middle class professional people" and people like that don't make choices like that (to leave her) .....which by implication may have suggested that "working class people" might have done! (not my view!!)

i think its interesting that the police have not only kept the case open but have had an active team (albeit a lot smaller in recent years) on it all of the time whereas there are hundreds of cases of "missing people" even children, that didn't have much resource at all put on them!

Its just so difficult to know what to make of it all.

Offline Kev40ish

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Back in the day this forum was 95% anti McCann, they were guilty, the hostility towards them from some posters was unhinged, I took the view that they were innocent, still hold that view.

Do you have stats to back up that view of yours? 95% is a very large percentage

Offline King Nuts

I know this, as all parents do. You do not let a four-year-old out of your sight when away from home and family.

There are no circumstances whatsoever when you would do so.



Offline willie loman

Do you have stats to back up that view of yours? 95% is a very large percentage

To be honest I think I was the only one batting for them, the figure was nearer 99% , but I left a margin of error, the fact that the lead on the bbc radio and front page on the mail, didn't provoke a single post all day, kind of tells its own story, even if this comes to nothing, I will still believe in them, not one serious person, journalist ,policeman, criminologist, has viewed them as guilty.

Offline AnthG

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Watch this and decide for yourself if they appear guilty or innocent

External Link/Members Only
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Offline Squire Haggard

I've never thought that the McCanns were guilty. Its likely that they have now got the guy that did it IMO.

Offline tynetunnel

I've never thought that the McCanns were guilty. Its likely that they have now got the guy that did it IMO.

I hope he is proven guilty, confesses, and says what happened to Maddie so at least they can find out what happened to their little girl and lay her to rest in their heads.

Offline smiths

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I know this, as all parents do. You do not let a four-year-old out of your sight when away from home and family.

There are no circumstances whatsoever when you would do so.

Spot on. :thumbsup: This pair of at the very least negligent parents should of been done in my view for leaving the kid alone and probably would of been if they hadn't been Doctors. And as to their guilt in this I am deeply suspicious of them, we shall see if this bloke gets charged and convicted.

Offline NIK

Never liked the mother. There was just something about her that I didn't care for.
It's a personal thing and may sound snobbish but can't be doing with women with scouse accents. I know they can't help it but I can't help disliking it.
And she was a doctor! Most doctors speak RP.   :D

Offline willie loman

Never liked the mother. There was just something about her that I didn't care for.
It's a personal thing and may sound snobbish but can't be doing with women with scouse accents. I know they can't help it but I can't help disliking it.
And she was a doctor! Most doctors speak RP.   :D

Although they are doctors, both come from modest backgrounds.

Offline Blackpool Rock

I hope he is proven guilty, confesses, and says what happened to Maddie so at least they can find out what happened to their little girl and lay her to rest in their heads.
Listening to this story on the radio earlier driving home from work it does at least appear to be a strong chance that they now have the guy who abducted her.
While the final outcome of what happened to her almost certainly won't be good I think it's probably best for all involved to finally have some closure (hopefully).

Willie is right that there was a lot of bad feeling towards them as there also was in the general public, people do often drop their guard on holiday and they made a really stupid decision that will live with them for the rest of their lives

Offline A Decent Fist

You'd think that a successful education, going to medical school, mingling with lots of people from different backgrounds, working away from your native area, etc etc, would at least take the harsh edge off a broad working-class accent.

It did for me (substituting higher education for medical school). You can still tell where I come from, but it's been diluted by a factor of ten from when I was 16.

But some people are just hard-wired to always speak the same way. I've seen it before but I still find it remarkable.

Offline george r

I've never thought that the McCanns were guilty. Its likely that they have now got the guy that did it IMO.

according to the papers he is already guilty ?

Offline sub_marine

Police have a history of setting up people who are odd characters for crimes they never committed.  Even if this German nonce admits to it, until theres proof of what actually happened to her there will always be doubts about the parents.

Offline willie loman

Watch this and decide for yourself if they appear guilty or innocent

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Well what have you decided?

Offline AnthG

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Well what have you decided?

They drugged and killed her. Like I said in the topic you are remembering from 2012.

There is something very sick and twisted about the mother. Very sick. The German paedophile currently serving life, will likely get the blame shoved onto him just to get this case closed and them two out of the spotlight once and for all. But many people believe they did it. Even the investigating officers thought they did it.
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Offline King Nuts

For my own part, I am not sure. The parents are definitely hiding something, and have been evasive in the past.

Maybe I'm just naive, but I struggle to see how a parent could kill their own child, even acidentally, and then repeatedly lie about it.

Nonetheless, there are two very weird things about this case that have never, to my mind, truly been addressed:

1. They left the child in an unlocked apartment while they went out drinking. Not in a million years would I have done the same.

2. The speed at which the world's media, various slebs, and politicians all got onside. Very, very uncanny.



Offline Thephoenix

Google the key 49 question she was asked, and wouldn't answer,  and the allegations that part of the fund they set up paid off their mortgage.

They were key questions. By not answering them, it's no wonder people have suspicions.

I hope they don't just fit the murder on this German guy, or that they accept a confession from this weirdo without strong evidence.

Offline Cactus

Leaving aside the opinions about them as people or conspiracy theories about the parents role in her disappearance and assuming they are innocent of any wrongdoing in that act. The McCanns still put their 3 year old daughter & even younger twins in a position of danger, where, if this German guy did indeed abduct & kill her, they made that act possible with their child negligence, all so they could get pissed and eat tapas with their pals. Whether there is more to the story or not and whether there is any case to answer legally for their child neglect, they need to take that to the grave with them.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 05:17:52 am by Cactus »

Offline Blackpool Rock

I probably was previously aware of this but you forget details over time and the McCann's were actually on holiday with a group of other friends and their children all staying in the same resort.
Watched the 1st half of a 2 hour documentary last night on Quest Red and there were 9 adults and 8 children in the group but all the adults dined every night in the Tapas bar.
Apparently they had worked out a system where they took turns every half hour checking on the kids but this could easily have been a kid from one of the other families.
They were all "Respectable" doctors etc but seemingly they all thought it was OK to leave their kids in the apartments with the front doors unlocked so others could check on them.
As I previously said people do often drop their guard on holiday and it's a fairly quiet and respectable resort (been there myself) but even if they were leaving the kids on their own I don't know why you wouldn't still lock the door and have a "pool" of keys for the person checking to gain access.

Offline smiths

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I probably was previously aware of this but you forget details over time and the McCann's were actually on holiday with a group of other friends and their children all staying in the same resort.
Watched the 1st half of a 2 hour documentary last night on Quest Red and there were 9 adults and 8 children in the group but all the adults dined every night in the Tapas bar.
Apparently they had worked out a system where they took turns every half hour checking on the kids but this could easily have been a kid from one of the other families.
They were all "Respectable" doctors etc but seemingly they all thought it was OK to leave their kids in the apartments with the front doors unlocked so others could check on them.
As I previously said people do often drop their guard on holiday and it's a fairly quiet and respectable resort (been there myself) but even if they were leaving the kids on their own I don't know why you wouldn't still lock the door and have a "pool" of keys for the person checking to gain access.

Responsible parents do not ever leave their kids home alone for any length of time, its an embedded part of being a parent in this day and age, me and my ex knew this from day 1, how these Doctors didn't know and do this is very very highly suspicious to me.

Offline Hobbit

You'd think that a successful education, going to medical school, mingling with lots of people from different backgrounds, working away from your native area, etc etc, would at least take the harsh edge off a broad working-class accent.

It did for me (substituting higher education for medical school). You can still tell where I come from, but it's been diluted by a factor of ten from when I was 16.

But some people are just hard-wired to always speak the same way. I've seen it before but I still find it remarkable.

Doesn't work like that mate. There are many well-educated arseholes around. Humanity, kindness and compassion is not an effect of modern education. It's derived from good parenting and a healthy moral upbringing. But most parents nowadays are immature, selfish people who only have children for status, marriage recovery or through alcoholic sex with no meaning. You think children are going to be loved when parents themselves are fucked up? We only have to look at our own parents to see how messed up they are and what effect it's had on us.  :hi:

Offline smiths

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Leaving aside the opinions about them as people or conspiracy theories about the parents role in her disappearance and assuming they are innocent of any wrongdoing in that act. The McCanns still put their 3 year old daughter & even younger twins in a position of danger, where, if this German guy did indeed abduct & kill her, they made that act possible with their child negligence, all so they could get pissed and eat tapas with their pals. Whether there is more to the story or not and whether there is any case to answer legally for their child neglect, they need to take that to the grave with them.

Good post. :thumbsup:

Offline kippydon

well lets hope this guy , if he has done anything , then needs to come put and tell the police what actually has happened  and then everyone concerned can move on

i agreed that the parents must take some responsibility on what happened leave the kids on there own

well lets just wait and see

Offline WASA38

Doesn't work like that mate. There are many well-educated arseholes around. Humanity, kindness and compassion is not an effect of modern education. It's derived from good parenting and a healthy moral upbringing. But most parents nowadays are immature, selfish people who only have children for status, marriage recovery or through alcoholic sex with no meaning. You think children are going to be loved when parents themselves are fucked up? We only have to look at our own parents to see how messed up they are and what effect it's had on us.  :hi:
It sounds as though you are a fan of Philp Larkin's . This be the Verse' :
(External Link/Members Only)

Offline King Nuts

It sounds as though you are a fan of Philp Larkin's . This be the Verse' :
(External Link/Members Only)

Arf. And Larkin was one weird fucker an' all.

Online timsussex

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Leaving aside the opinions about them as people or conspiracy theories about the parents role in her disappearance and assuming they are innocent of any wrongdoing in that act. The McCanns still put their 3 year old daughter & even younger twins in a position of danger, where, if this German guy did indeed abduct & kill her, they made that act possible with their child negligence, all so they could get pissed and eat tapas with their pals. Whether there is more to the story or not and whether there is any case to answer legally for their child neglect, they need to take that to the grave with them.

Correct. He MAY be guilty but they are certainly far from innocent

Offline A Decent Fist

Doesn't work like that mate. There are many well-educated arseholes around. Humanity, kindness and compassion is not an effect of modern education. It's derived from good parenting and a healthy moral upbringing. But most parents nowadays are immature, selfish people who only have children for status, marriage recovery or through alcoholic sex with no meaning. You think children are going to be loved when parents themselves are fucked up? We only have to look at our own parents to see how messed up they are and what effect it's had on us.  :hi:

Don't know what you thought I meant but I was talking purely about regional working-class accents and whether or not you retain them undiluted – nothing to do with whether a person is an arsehole or a good parent or not.

Offline Hobbit

It sounds as though you are a fan of Philp Larkin's . This be the Verse' :
(External Link/Members Only)

Never heard of him until now. I like the poem.  :D

He's right in some respects. Children are not just for Christmas, they are for life. And unfortunately in this day and age, too many kids are having kids. And some of these kids are very old fuckers. My point being that maturity doesn't come with age. :hi:

Offline Hobbit

Don't know what you thought I meant but I was talking purely about regional working-class accents and whether or not you retain them undiluted – nothing to do with whether a person is an arsehole or a good parent or not.

I guess I based it on your first sentence about well-educated people. Perhaps I went off on a tangent. :D

Offline NIK

Arf. And Larkin was one weird fucker an' all.

Yes, his unfashionable views would have him persona no grata these days by those who are always telling us how we should think.

And just imagine how Wagner would have gone on!  :scare:

Offline King Nuts

Never heard of him until now. I like the poem.  :D

He's right in some respects. Children are not just for Christmas, they are for life. And unfortunately in this day and age, too many kids are having kids. And some of these kids are very old fuckers. My point being that maturity doesn't come with age. :hi:

Am a big fan of Larkin. This is my favourite of his: External Link/Members Only

He was a right old curmudgeon. Had some views which nowadays would be regarded as utterly unpalatable, but at the time (and I'm talking a few decades back), weren't that unusual.

But then he wrote some marvellous stuff. I'm sure in due course, the Higher Education Politburo will get him taken off the curriculum in favour of some twat like George the Poet.


Offline king tarzan

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To leave you kids by themselves at that age while they pissed off for dinner  is NEGLIGENT PARENTING 100%.. they did not deserve to have children in the first place.. end of..
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Offline NIK

Am a big fan of Larkin. This is my favourite of his: External Link/Members Only

He was a right old curmudgeon. Had some views which nowadays would be regarded as utterly unpalatable, but at the time (and I'm talking a few decades back), weren't that unusual.

But then he wrote some marvellous stuff. I'm sure in due course, the Higher Education Politburo will get him taken off the curriculum in favour of some twat like George the Poet.

His friend Kingsley Amis also had views which would outrage the liberal left.  Remember at university when we were analysing one of his passages the lecturer ripped it to shreds. At the time I wasn't aware that was standard academic attitude to anyone who didn't conform to the received liberal wisdom.

Offline hermanmunster

Correct. He MAY be guilty but they are certainly far from innocent

Agreed, as you say he MAY be guilty, but whether they like it or not, the McCanns are partly to blame and that is why so many people don't like them and are quite happy to include them in their conspiracy theories.

Offline Thephoenix

Agreed, as you say he MAY be guilty, but whether they like it or not, the McCanns are partly to blame and that is why so many people don't like them and are quite happy to include them in their conspiracy theories.

I've tried to keep an open mind, but it's not a conspiracy theory to read the 49 interview questions she refused to answer.

Read them online and it's obvious what the interviewer was inferring.

A mother who's desperate to help the police find her child refuses to answer such vital questions....... Unless she has something to hide? What other explanation could there be?
Surely that must be her only concern?
If she's worried that they are inferring about other things like behaviour, medications, welfare history, neglect etc, surely as a mother they must pale into insignificance compared to her missing child?


« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 03:51:55 pm by Thephoenix »

Offline RLondon99

Am a big fan of Larkin. This is my favourite of his: External Link/Members Only

He was a right old curmudgeon. Had some views which nowadays would be regarded as utterly unpalatable, but at the time (and I'm talking a few decades back), weren't that unusual.


He was a genius and a repulsive person. Also not that unusual.

There's not a day when some line of Larkin's does not spring into my head.

This one will surely appeal to UKP: External Link/Members Only

Offline willie loman

I am not that up on the case, the ins and outs, but weren't  all the parents at the meal that night guilty of the same omission? they left their children unattended. Britains formemost criminologist, David Canter, who was sent out by a tabloid to cover the story in the early days, quickly concluded that they were innocent, his view was that criminals behave like criminals in every aspect of their lives(possibly not his exact words).

Offline NIK

He was a genius and a repulsive person. Also not that unusual.

There's not a day when some line of Larkin's does not spring into my head.

This one will surely appeal to UKP: External Link/Members Only

Although I am familiar with much of Larkin's poetry I have never come across that one!

What was great about Larkin's verse is that on the surface it seems informal and extremely accessible, however most of his best poems become more complex or ambivalent towards the end and leave the reader thinking. Mr Bleaney is a great example.

Mr Bleaney by Philip Larkin

'This was Mr Bleaney's room. He stayed
The whole time he was at the Bodies, till
They moved him.' Flowered curtains, thin and frayed,
Fall to within five inches of the sill,

Whose window shows a strip of building land,
Tussocky, littered. 'Mr Bleaney took
My bit of garden properly in hand.'
Bed, upright chair, sixty-watt bulb, no hook

Behind the door, no room for books or bags -
'I'll take it.' So it happens that I lie
Where Mr Bleaney lay, and stub my fags
On the same saucer-souvenir, and try

Stuffing my ears with cotton-wool, to drown
The jabbering set he egged her on to buy.
I know his habits - what time he came down,
His preference for sauce to gravy, why

He kept on plugging at the four aways -
Likewise their yearly frame: the Frinton folk
Who put him up for summer holidays,
And Christmas at his sister's house in Stoke.

But if he stood and watched the frigid wind
Tousling the clouds, lay on the fusty bed
Telling himself that this was home, and grinned,
And shivered, without shaking off the dread

That how we live measures our own nature,
And at his age having no more to show
Than one hired box should make him pretty sure
He warranted no better, I don't know.

Offline King Nuts

Although I am familiar with much of Larkin's poetry I have never come across that one!

What was great about Larkin's verse is that on the surface it seems informal and extremely accessible, however most of his best poems become more complex or ambivalent towards the end and leave the reader thinking. Mr Bleaney is a great example.

Mr Bleaney by Philip Larkin

'This was Mr Bleaney's room. He stayed
The whole time he was at the Bodies, till
They moved him.' Flowered curtains, thin and frayed,
Fall to within five inches of the sill,

Whose window shows a strip of building land,
Tussocky, littered. 'Mr Bleaney took
My bit of garden properly in hand.'
Bed, upright chair, sixty-watt bulb, no hook

Behind the door, no room for books or bags -
'I'll take it.' So it happens that I lie
Where Mr Bleaney lay, and stub my fags
On the same saucer-souvenir, and try

Stuffing my ears with cotton-wool, to drown
The jabbering set he egged her on to buy.
I know his habits - what time he came down,
His preference for sauce to gravy, why

He kept on plugging at the four aways -
Likewise their yearly frame: the Frinton folk
Who put him up for summer holidays,
And Christmas at his sister's house in Stoke.

But if he stood and watched the frigid wind
Tousling the clouds, lay on the fusty bed
Telling himself that this was home, and grinned,
And shivered, without shaking off the dread

That how we live measures our own nature,
And at his age having no more to show
Than one hired box should make him pretty sure
He warranted no better, I don't know.

Larkin certainly had a way of looking at things with incredible detail and always finding the bathos somewhere.

Bit like Alan Bennett.

And Jake Thackray.

Where are their like now?

Offline Spencer Fobby

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Watch this and decide for yourself if they appear guilty or innocent

External Link/Members Only

That's a pretty nasty re-edit of a TED talk by someone who seems very motivated to nail them as guilty and complicit.  I'm suspicious of the person who edited that clip...  that's going a long way to prove a point and I doubt that he/she obtained the rights to use the TED clip in that way. 
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Offline MilleMiglia

For my own part, I am not sure. The parents are definitely hiding something, and have been evasive in the past.

Maybe I'm just naive, but I struggle to see how a parent could kill their own child, even acidentally, and then repeatedly lie about it.

Nonetheless, there are two very weird things about this case that have never, to my mind, truly been addressed:

1. They left the child in an unlocked apartment while they went out drinking. Not in a million years would I have done the same.

2. The speed at which the world's media, various slebs, and politicians all got onside. Very, very uncanny.


Also of interest is their apparent ability to get threads shut down when the content is not to their liking. Saw this mentioned a few years back on a site (I forget which one), when a McCann thread suddenly disappeared, and someone asked what had happened.

Offline GreyDave

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 :hi: Many other young kids have gone missing too in this time , I am still wondering just why so much time and effort has gone in to this one child sad as it is :(

They left a 4 year old alone with other kiids under 16 years old iresponsable to say least and some thing they now have to live with but the constant " This guy is of interest" line evey few years is not helping them get over their mistake  :( its ruinied several inocent peoples lives  :(