Which albums are overated / underrated?

[Ali Katt]

Crass. Now you're talking! External Link/Members Only

Thinking back at that time, there were a lot of really weird acts out there. Throbbing Gristle was one. There was some right borderline stuff on some of their records. Monte Cazazza was another one. Surgical Penis Klinik too.

I'm out of the loop now, but are there any acts out there these days that are as 'challenging' to listen to as the aforementioned?

Two which are quite old, but still releasing new stuff (occasionally): Merzbow and Hafler Trio. No doubt influenced by Throbbing Gristle.  I suppose there's
Godspeed You! Black Emperor and some of the early Flying Lotus stuff, but it's shall we say more melodic.

[Ali Katt]

YMMV obviously but I don't think songs like Liar, No Feelings and EMI are really that difficult, though as I said I would agree that musically they weren't that adventurous.  Still a great listen for me, though.  The Slits had a problem in that they could never really 'play' their instruments, though of course they weren't alone in that, obviously!  The Raincoats, likewise, but both bands were (so some say  ) quite adventurous musically.

Agree though that both Wire and Joy Division were superior to the majority of the 'straight punk' brigade.  Wire are still going now, of course, and are still decent though not with quite the level of inspiration as their first few albums - Pink Flag is a masterpiece IMO and Chairs Missing is also great.

Chairs Missing tends to get more love mainly because the singles were played in clubs at the time, maybe still are. Pink Flag is one I still play mainly for Ex Lion Tamer and Mannequin. With regards Sex Pistols maybe difficult is the wrong word, I meant more overplayed or overly familiar; a bit like Lithium and Teen Spirit off Nevermind.

[badsin]

Anything by The Beatles

[King Nuts]

Are you sure you're not making that up. 

Nope.

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[King Nuts]

Anything by The Beatles

I think it was the legendary Samuel K Ampong who used to write in to the letters page in the NME in the old days, asking to know 'where is Beatles band?'

[stampjones]

Speaking of which never mind the bollocks is overrated, but it's importance cannot be overstated.

Nice way of putting it - couldnt agree more

[King Nuts]

Speaking of which never mind the bollocks is overrated, but it's importance cannot be overstated.

Agreed. I don't want to sound like some kind of hack Poly social studies lecturer, but in terms of its effect on the music industry and its wider effect on our culture, it was a milestone. It gave millions of people the confidence to express their own voice.

[boardyhell]

There's an album that doesn't seem to feature much in people's Top Ten lists, or have tracks played on Desert Island Discs, but that IMHO is one of the finest records ever made. I speak of none other than Donald Fagen's 'The Nightfly'.

First album thought to have been recorded digitally, it's a work of musical and technical perfection. Been listening to it for nigh on 40 years and it never fails to charm.

Sonically enchanting and lyrically wistful, your record collection is not complete without it.

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haven't heard that album ,but will endeavour to
i am huge steely dan fan from reeling in the years and their music progressed and became really polished but without losing its special originality
pretzel logic was a good example
however from then on "aja" being an example it became a bit weird for me personally
Becker and fagan at the time were  a breath of fresh air
great group
saw them at the rainbow about 1973/74

[A Decent Fist]

haven't heard that album ,but will endeavour to
i am huge steely dan fan from reeling in the years and their music progressed and became really polished but without losing its special originality
pretzel logic was a good example
however from then on "aja" being an example it became a bit weird for me personally
Becker and fagan at the time were  a breath of fresh air
great group
saw them at the rainbow about 1973/74

I really envy you seeing that Rainbow gig when they were more of band than two musical geniuses tryinging out endless session musicians. Must have had Jeff "Skunk" Baxter and Denny Dias on guitars back then.

I saw them twice in the 2000s – superb gigs. They released one brilliant album (Two Against Nature) and one pretty good one (Everything Must Go) to bookend that decade so it was not just a case of them turning into their own tribute band like so many others (Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, The Eagles).

Can't understand you thinking they got more weird around the Aja period. I think they got much less weird and a lot smoother, but I still loved them.

After you check out The Nightfly (just about perfect) move on to Donald Fagen's other solo album, Kamakiriad: super-weird lyrically, but musically superb.

[RLondon99]

I really envy you seeing that Rainbow gig.

Me too. They must have been formidable live in the early seventies.

Becker's solo work is underrated. There would have been more, but he went to a dark place for a long period.

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[A Decent Fist]

Becker's solo work is underrated.
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I like the late Walter's stuff until the moment he starts to sing. His voice just doesn't sit well with the songs. I go back and listen again sometimes but that voice remains the stumbling block.

[spiralnotebook]

Q -  Which albums are overated / underrated?


Anything by the Beatles (reprise)

[RLondon99]

I like the late Walter's stuff until the moment he starts to sing. His voice just doesn't sit well with the songs. I go back and listen again sometimes but that voice remains the stumbling block.

I like the vulnerability in his voice. Would say the same of Robert Wyatt.

[A Decent Fist]

Love Robert Wyatt. But personally I can't hear any character in Walter's voice.

[Malvolio]

I really envy you seeing that Rainbow gig when they were more of band than two musical geniuses tryinging out endless session musicians. Must have had Jeff "Skunk" Baxter and Denny Dias on guitars back then.

I saw them twice in the 2000s – superb gigs. They released one brilliant album (Two Against Nature) and one pretty good one (Everything Must Go) to bookend that decade so it was not just a case of them turning into their own tribute band like so many others (Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, The Eagles).

Can't understand you thinking they got more weird around the Aja period. I think they got much less weird and a lot smoother, but I still loved them.

After you check out The Nightfly (just about perfect) move on to Donald Fagen's other solo album, Kamakiriad: super-weird lyrically, but musically superb.

I've got some good news for you - there are two more Donald Fagen solo albums (Morph the Cat and Sunken Condos) and they're both better than Kamikiriad.

Agree that The Nightfly is an all-time classic.

[PepeMAGA]

overrated
Pink Floyd the Wall
Oasis
Blur
The Cure
Stone Roses

underrated
Jethro Tull Stand up and Benefit
Yes 901245 (seen as over-commercial, but some fantastic tunes on there)
Beck (seen as a bit of a quirky comedy act at times, but some genius work too).
early Goldfrapp records
UNKLE

[Gloodz]

Been listening to the Foo Fighters a fair bit and I have to say...
Over-rated: In Your Honor (Disc 1), There is Nothing Left To Lose.
Under-rated: In Your Honor (Disc 2)

Also, not an entire album but song specific, The Verve have one EXTREMELY over-rated song (Bittersweet Symphony) and one CRIMINALLY under-rated song (Love is Noise).

Aaaaaand just just piss off all the OAP's that frequent UKP, anything and everything from before 1990 that isn't Nick Cave sucks eggs. 

[ik8133]

Never really liked any of the David Bowie albums. Liked his singles, but the albums never did it for me.

[PepeMAGA]

Never really liked any of the David Bowie albums. Liked his singles, but the albums never did it for me.

Low I really like, think ziggy Stardust was massively overrated.

[badsin]

Underated: all The Macc Lads albums

[Kool Keef]

Underrated - JJ Cale
                       Lloyd Cole & The Commotions
                       XTC
                       Doves
                       John Martyn
                       Fila Brazillia

[Londonpunter30]

Forever Changes by Love.

Listed as a great but just can’t get into it, has about one decent track.

Underrated

One Upon A Time in America Soundtrack by Ennio Morricone, probable the best film score of all time as it blends so well with the film

[Cupid Stuntz]

Hawklords - 25 Years On

When Hawkwind released this back in 1977 it was universally vilified - probably because it was too musical. Essentially a .Bob Calvert solo project bordering on poetry set to new wave, the regular fans hated it. Its Calvert's warning against Thatcherism - his vision of a world after 25 years of totalitarian rule. Too much for the fans to take on board.
But the more I listen to it, the more convinced I am that its Hawkwinds most musical and best work.
Nowadays Calvert is a side note in Hawkwind history, with Brock sometimes reprising one or two of his tunes in live concert. I often wonder what Captain Calvert would have achieved further if he'd lived.

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Space Ritual was (for me) Hawkwinds pinnacle. The album and the tour. Acid, Liquid Lens light show and Stacia, a great mix.

As for Calvert I still have "Captain Lockheed and the Starfighters" on vinyl.

[smiths]

Low I really like, think ziggy Stardust was massively overrated.

I cant stand his Berlin trilogy, Low, Heroes and Lodger as whole albums though like some individual songs on them. For me Station To Station was his last great album and his best were Hunky Dory which I really love and Ziggy.

Scary Monsters wasn't bad then he decided he wanted to make some real money so did Lets Dance, fair enough and it worked for him.

[JonasG]

IMO the good Oasis tracks are the ones nobody talks about that much: Slide Away, What's the Story, Hindu Times, Bring It on Down, Up In the sky etc.

Oasis have a lot of underrated gems in their catalogue. Genuine great songs.

The amount of great B-sides they had in their pomp was amazing.

A better band than given credit for critically imo.

[The Film Director]

I cant stand his Berlin trilogy, Low, Heroes and Lodger as whole albums though like some individual songs on them. For me Station To Station was his last great album and his best were Hunky Dory which I really love and Ziggy.

Scary Monsters wasn't bad then he decided he wanted to make some real money so did Lets Dance, fair enough and it worked for him.

Love all his albums from Space Oddity through to Heroes.  The album that has probbably gone up most in my estimation in the last few years is Aladdin Sane - fantastic jazzy piano by Mike Garson and Mick Ronson's searing guitar, particularly on a song like Time.

[The Film Director]

Underated: all The Macc Lads albums

Sweaty Betty 

This should probably go on the Politically Incorrect thread. 

[tesla]

Love all his albums from Space Oddity through to Heroes.  The album that has probbably gone up most in my estimation in the last few years is Aladdin Sane - fantastic jazzy piano by Mike Garson and Mick Ronson's searing guitar, particularly on a song like Time.

Mick Ronson was the power behind a lot of the early albums, Hunky Dory, Man Who Sold the World , and of course Ziggy, classically trained pianist as well a being an awesome guitarist, and I believe he did all the arrangements.
Moonage Daydream and Width of a Circle, Ronson at his very best!

Mike Garson added another level to the whole ensemble, nice guy, had a good chat with him at an after gig party, when Ronson toured with the Spiders, after David quit.

[FLYING BLUE]

Mick Ronson was the power behind a lot of the early albums, Hunky Dory, Man Who Sold the World , and of course Ziggy, classically trained pianist as well a being an awesome guitarist, and I believe he did all the arrangements.
Moonage Daydream and Width of a Circle, Ronson at his very best!

Mike Garson added another level to the whole ensemble, nice guy, had a good chat with him at an after gig party, when Ronson toured with the Spiders, after David quit.

100% with you on that. Ronno was himself, very under rated as a guitarist and arranger - Ronno took many of DB's 'folk' songs and turned them into Rock - he was a huge part of making DB a commercial success

Rick Wakeman also turned 'life on Mars?' from an acoustic song into the epic that it became

[The Film Director]

had a good chat with him at an after gig party

You ligger, you.   

Were you 'on the list'. 

[The Film Director]

100% with you on that. Ronno was himself, very under rated as a guitarist and arranger - Ronno took many of DB's 'folk' songs and turned them into Rock - he was a huge part of making DB a commercial success

Rick Wakeman also turned 'life on Mars?' from an acoustic song into the epic that it became

Yes, Ronno also did the arrangements on Lou Reed's Transfomer IIRC.

[tesla]

You ligger, you.   

Were you 'on the list'. 

no I was not on the list, I found out what hotel they were at, went with my friends after the gig, it had a public bar , bumped into Mick Rock the photographer at the public bar asked him if he could get us into the party, it helped that my 4 friends were all female.....

[The Film Director]

no I was not on the list, I found out what hotel they were at, went with my friends after the gig, it had a public bar , bumped into Mick Rock the photographer at the public bar asked him if he could get us into the party, it helped that my 4 friends were all female.....

Nice one.  Very Creative.   

Was there anyone else of note there (just being nosey)?

[winkywanky]

Mick Ronson was the power behind a lot of the early albums, Hunky Dory, Man Who Sold the World , and of course Ziggy, classically trained pianist as well a being an awesome guitarist, and I believe he did all the arrangements.
Moonage Daydream and Width of a Circle, Ronson at his very best!

Mike Garson added another level to the whole ensemble, nice guy, had a good chat with him at an after gig party, when Ronson toured with the Spiders, after David quit.

Yes, Ronson's role is largely forgotten, or at least vastly underrated.

I have a bit of a thing for reading biographies of the era, and the one of Ronson entitled Mick Ronson The Spider with the Platinum Hair is very good.

Similarly, Visconti's autobiography Bowie, Bolan and the Brooklyn Boy.

[The Film Director]

Yes, Ronson's role is largely forgotten, or at least vastly underrated.

I have a bit of a thing for reading biographies of the era, and the one of Ronson entitled Mick Ronson The Spider with the Platinum Hair is very good.

Similarly, Visconti's autobiography Bowie, Bolan and the Brooklyn Boy.

Cheers for the Ronson reference.

Yes, I read the Visconti book and it was pretty good I thought, though (understandably being an autobiography) had a lot about Visconti's life outside of the Bowie and Bolan connection.

[Kool Keef]

Yes, Ronson's role is largely forgotten, or at least vastly underrated.

I have a bit of a thing for reading biographies of the era, and the one of Ronson entitled Mick Ronson The Spider with the Platinum Hair is very good.

Similarly, Visconti's autobiography Bowie, Bolan and the Brooklyn Boy.

I was pretty disappointed with the Visconti bio, I was hoping for more detail about all those great recordings he was involved in, like ''Heroes' & such, like how they got Robert Fripp's guitar sound but he kinda just glossed over the details in a few paragraphs from what I remember.

[winkywanky]

Yes, I always like lots of technical detail, I too was hoping for a bit more.

But it tends to concentrate on more 'girly shit', like looking out the studio window and seeing Bowie snogging with some bird, which became the inspiration for Heroes. How boring   

[A Decent Fist]

Yes, I always like lots of technical detail, I too was hoping for a bit more.

But it tends to concentrate on more 'girly shit', like looking out the studio window and seeing Bowie snogging with some bird, which became the inspiration for Heroes. How boring   

No, it was supposed to be Bowie looking out of the window and seeing Visconti snogging some bird by the wall. Mr V was married to Mary Hopkin at the time, you may recall.

Visconti claims this was the inspiration for at least one line in the Heroes lyrics, but the bird involved, Antonia Maass, reckons they didn't get together until after the track was done and dusted.

Details here:

External Link/Members Only

And if it's technical detail you want...

External Link/Members Only

[winkywanky]

No, it was supposed to be Bowie looking out of the window and seeing Visconti snogging some bird by the wall. Mr V was married to Mary Hopkin at the time, you may recall.

Visconti claims this was the inspiration for at least one line in the Heroes lyrics, but the bird involved, Antonia Maass, reckons they didn't get together until after the track was done and dusted.

Details here:

External Link/Members Only

And if it's technical detail you want...

External Link/Members Only

Ah, perhaps that was it!  Yes ADF, I do think you are correct 


Thanks for the techy link, I shall check that out 

[tesla]

Nice one.  Very Creative.   

Was there anyone else of note there (just being nosey)?

well long story short, the following week after the Sheffield gig, I ended up staying at the same hotel as the band, had to book a room to avoid being ejected.
Met Harvey Goldsmith, think he was the promoter , and Charles Sharr Murray from the NME

I remember they had to send a taxi out to get more champagne as the hotel ran out very quickly.

[The Film Director]

I knew there was at least one memorable quote in the Visconti book and I've just dug it out.

When Visconti met John Lennon in the US around the time Bowie was recording Young Americans, Visconti complained (lightly I suspect) to Lennon that Paul McCartney hadn't given him a credit for his input to Band On The Run, Lennon replied 'I was about to call Paul tomorrow and get together with him, but you've just reminded me of what a fucking cunt he is'. 

[winkywanky]

 

[smiths]

Love all his albums from Space Oddity through to Heroes.  The album that has probbably gone up most in my estimation in the last few years is Aladdin Sane - fantastic jazzy piano by Mike Garson and Mick Ronson's searing guitar, particularly on a song like Time.

I cant stand the Space Oddity album and hate The Man Who Sold The World album, both full of total rubbish to my ears. I prefer his Deram output to them and in particular the great The London Boys. But it was Hunky Dory where he made a great album in my book, then changed tempo to do Ziggy, from then to and including Station To Station I like most of his original albums though have got less keen on Young Americans as time as has gone on.

I do like some of his live albums, Santa Monica 72 being one of his best I think, David Live is ok but not great.

[Kerosene]

I can't say they're underrated because they are held in pretty good regard, but I want to raise the flag for Creedence Clearwater Revival for the volume of quality records they put out in a short time - six LPs in three years with three released in one year (I bet that's down to shitty contractual obligations but that's another story). So many good songs of their own and complemented with a fine selection of takes on older songs. I saw John Fogerty at Glastonbury one year and I was amazed at how many great songs he had in the bank.

And I'm not counting Mardi Gras in this.

[foreverchanges]

Forever Changes by Love.

Listed as a great but just can’t get into it, has about one decent track.

I have to completely disagree with you.

[winkywanky]

I have to completely disagree with you.

...infact, you'll stake your good name on it 

[The Film Director]

I cant stand the Space Oddity album

Cygnet Committee - one of the man's greatest ever songs IMO. 

[Ali Katt]

Underated: all The Macc Lads albums

I listen to them quite a bit. I think people wrote them off as a joke band, but they are actually really good musically and play tight.

Also for obvious reasons they've never been on Top of the Pops which back then was the difference between a Top 40 song and a Top 10.

[rocket88]

OPs reference to Led Zeppelin reminded me that I have often thought their third album is underrated. Since I've Been Living You is a superb blues rock track.

[tesla]

Cygnet Committee - one of the man's greatest ever songs IMO. 

plus Wild Eyed boy from Freecloud and Letter to Hermione