Author Topic: Dominic Cummings and goings during lockdown whilst symptomatic  (Read 25486 times)

Online RogerBoner

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Offline Beamer

Another hypocrite  :hi:
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"high profile" people caught not following the rules have resigned except........
Janrick and Cummings so that's a great example......
.

Offline Rabbit63

Note that none of the newspaper articles mention how he and his other half traveled to Durham.
Why is that relevant?
Well, if they went by train from London, then they knowingly put other members of the public, train crew, station staff etc at risk of infection.
Boris, if you don't demand his resignation, or sack Cummings, how can you seriously expect any of us to not think we can do what we want, that 'the rules don't apply to me' ???

Offline sparkus

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I'm just interested in the timing of this revelation, given a lot of his old pals in the Brexit movement are now limbering up to mount a campaign against lockdown.

Offline redveee

From what I've read tonight both he and his wife weren't well enough to look after their child but they were well enough to drive from London to Durham.  :unknown:

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Offline Rabbit63

From what I've read tonight both he and his wife weren't well enough to look after their child but they were well enough to drive from London to Durham.  :unknown:

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I get his point, but as I said, it is just an assumption that they went by car. No newspaper has confirmed they drove to Durham

Offline Blackpool Rock

Note that none of the newspaper articles mention how he and his other half traveled to Durham.
Why is that relevant?
Well, if they went by train from London, then they knowingly put other members of the public, train crew, station staff etc at risk of infection.
Boris, if you don't demand his resignation, or sack Cummings, how can you seriously expect any of us to not think we can do what we want, that 'the rules don't apply to me' ???
I'd agree that train would probably be worse than going by car however if travelling by car especially with kids they would no doubt have to have stopped at service stations for fuel; food / drink and to have a piss thereby coming into contact with countless other people.

This guy is Boris's right hand chief cunt and if he doesn't resign then Boris needs to grow a set and fire him otherwise he will lose any credibility and respect that he still has

This is another one for the "More do as I say thread" then  :rolleyes:

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Offline Kev40ish

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I’m not sure about the real reasons that made him make the decision to relocate his family. So difficult to put myself in his position.
The Media, politicians and people who don’t like him will just use it as an excuse to complain and moan, not a lot unusual in that though, rather than think what they would do..
Unfortunately the so called lockdown rules are there to protect the wider population, but it’s difficult to make people follow them if they lack clarity and don’t allow a degree of common sense.

There are many families that change their main living arrangements, due to social, economical and health reasons.
How many children have moved back home, my daughter has moved back with my Ex as we didn’t want her to be on her own, working from home as her flat mate moved out.... is that wrong?

My Brother has moved in with my elderly parents, who are struggling to understand the lockdown and keep themselves safe..  is that really wrong?

An elderly aunt was due to go and visit her Son in Australia, but her flight was cancelled so she couldn’t go. She lived on her own and has unfortunately passed away due to catching the virus. She would have been much safer if she had gone and got locked down there..

If I have to change my living arrangement to care for someone or in my opinion to keep my family safe, I would do it straight away and honestly not give a fuck what anyone else thinks...

But I don’t like hypocrisy so would never preach something and then not follow it..
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 06:55:54 am by Kev40ish »

Offline Strawberry

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But they said they travelled to parents so they could look after his children, I'm guessing therefore the children travelled separately surely?

Offline Whipthatbooty

Travelling during lockdown is hypocritical but while ill and symptomatic? Unforgivable.

Offline Adoniron

Ferguson and Calderwood both went. Cummings must go too.

Offline Beamer

Ferguson and Calderwood both went. Cummings must go too.

I agree he should go but No 10 is already saying his actions were ok. So do as I say and not do as I do. 

Offline petermisc

From what I've read tonight both he and his wife weren't well enough to look after their child but they were well enough to drive from London to Durham.
Obviously at the time they drove, they were well enough to look after the child.  However, there was the very real possibility that soon they both would be incapable, perhaps within a day or two.  You can't expect a 4 year old to fend for itself, let alone nurse two sick adults. I would expect any responsible parents to take precautions against suddenly being in that situation.  With no family close by to look after the child, what alternative did they have?  I can't see many people rushing to take in a kid from a family where both parents have just gone down with the virus.

Much as I dislike Cummings, I have to say that I think his family's journey was essential and within the guidelines.  Speculation that he might have travelled by train (highly unlikely), or would have stopped at a service station, are pure speculation.

Offline Rabbit63

Obviously at the time they drove, they were well enough to look after the child.  However, there was the very real possibility that soon they both would be incapable, perhaps within a day or two.  You can't expect a 4 year old to fend for itself, let alone nurse two sick adults. I would expect any responsible parents to take precautions against suddenly being in that situation.  With no family close by to look after the child, what alternative did they have?  I can't see many people rushing to take in a kid from a family where both parents have just gone down with the virus.

Much as I dislike Cummings, I have to say that I think his family's journey was essential and within the guidelines.  Speculation that he might have travelled by train (highly unlikely), or would have stopped at a service station, are pure speculation.
If, and it's a big IF, you believe his version of events, that he and his wife stayed in a separate building, then his journey was NOT essential. Because if he had no contact whatsoever with his parents, he could have had that same isolation from back home in East London. Sorry, there is no way his journey was essential.
If you follow his explanation for going all that way, that he wanted his parents to take care of his child should his condition worse, then he would be knowingly taking a child who was living with two symptomatic parents into the home of two elderly people that his own advisers say are in the most 'at risk' group. The fact that they're his parents makes it worse.

Offline Avg_Joe

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time this kind of cunt was fired on the spot..... think just because they are a politician the rules don't apply to them.
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Offline Colston36

From what I've read tonight both he and his wife weren't well enough to look after their child but they were well enough to drive from London to Durham.  :unknown:

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The man is obviously a slimebag.

Offline jesse4585

there was the very real possibility that soon they both would be incapable, perhaps within a day or two.  You can't expect a 4 year old to fend for itself, let alone nurse two sick adults. I would expect any responsible parents to take precautions against suddenly being in that situation.  With no family close by to look after the child, what alternative did they have?  I can't see many people rushing to take in a kid from a family where both parents have just gone down with the virus.
It's a fair point.  Obviously not ideal to risking the health of the grandparents, but sometimes life throws us into no win situations where there's no good choice. Also most get a bit tunnel vision when they're stressed, probably esp. when your own children are at risk.

Some might say he should resign just because of the optics and possible knock on effects to the public being willing to respect the "lockdown" / restrictions.  Maybe I'm bad for thinking this,  but I kind of hope he doesn't,  just 'cos there seems to be loads of haters wanting the opposite.

Offline Adoniron

Instead of denying he broke the law and the guidance (he did both) No. 10 would be better off explaining why he felt he had no choice but to do so. However the problem with that approach is it means us peasants would be able to use the same arguments.

Offline hullad

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It's one of them  :P

One rule for them one for the rest

We are not in this together and Boris will defend him because this prat knows too much. If he ditches him and Cummings will do the machevellian thing, destroy Boris and his government. They will bluff it out Cummings is anti lock down and will defend him. Laura Kuntsberg defended him this morning as Cummings is her snout in no10.


Offline petermisc

If, and it's a big IF, you believe his version of events, that he and his wife stayed in a separate building, then his journey was NOT essential. Because if he had no contact whatsoever with his parents, he could have had that same isolation from back home in East London. Sorry, there is no way his journey was essential.
What you fail to say is what you think he SHOULD have done.  If the family had stayed put, there would have been a very real possibility that the 4 year old could have woken up one morning to find both his parents delirious and incapacitated. 

The only thing Cummings did differently to many other parents in a similar situation but who have relatives around the corner, is that he and his family travelled 200 miles to get to his relatives.  If the family travelled by car (which is the most likely scenario), he put no-one else at risk.  If the grandparents chose to accept the risk of taking in the child, that is up to them (and the risk of catching the virus off a 4 year old is minimal).

I would normally be the last person to defend Cummings, and the sooner he is booted out of No.10 the better, but in this case I think the criticism is entirely misplaced.  The guidelines clearly state that you are allowed to travel for medical reasons, and this was clearly a medical reason.

Offline southcoastpunter

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Petermisc - you are wasting your time and effort - there are several contributors here that just want to bash certain other people (Boris and Cummings included) not matter what!

They are quick to make assumptions and as you say, have not made any suggestions as to what he could have done in the cirmustances. I too, don't like the man but not sure what else he could have reasonably done!

Offline winkywanky

Four people take a long drive in a car together, two parents and two children.

One parent has active Covid symtpoms and has just left an environment where others have been found to be positive for it.

That would mean that by the end of the 260 mile journey, all the others would almost certainly have contracted Covid, having been so heavily exposed to it in a small space.

The kids probably wouldn't have been badly-affected, I think it was known even then that kids wouldn't be.

But apparently the purpose of the trip was for the kids to be looked after by the grandparents, should the parents become too ill to do so.

Simply by dint of their age, the grandparents would be vulnerable, regardless of any existing co-morbidities they may or may not have had.

From what I can make out, just about every rule in the Covid book got broken, moreover, the explanation given would have seriously endangered the grandparents, so there isn't even a pragmatic or balance of probabilities argument.

Cummings doesn't have a leg to stand on, pure and unjustified selfishness from a major govt policymaker, at a time when everyone else was being told to adhere to guidelines.

The sheer scale of wrongness of what he did, on every level, simply staggers me  :unknown:.

Offline Adoniron

What you fail to say is what you think he SHOULD have done.  If the family had stayed put, there would have been a very real possibility that the 4 year old could have woken up one morning to find both his parents delirious and incapacitated. 

The only thing Cummings did differently to many other parents in a similar situation but who have relatives around the corner, is that he and his family travelled 200 miles to get to his relatives.  If the family travelled by car (which is the most likely scenario), he put no-one else at risk.  If the grandparents chose to accept the risk of taking in the child, that is up to them (and the risk of catching the virus off a 4 year old is minimal).

I would normally be the last person to defend Cummings, and the sooner he is booted out of No.10 the better, but in this case I think the criticism is entirely misplaced.  The guidelines clearly state that you are allowed to travel for medical reasons, and this was clearly a medical reason.

Cummings wife's brother (the child's uncle) lives in London.

Offline Spencer Fobby

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Four people take a long drive in a car together, two parents and two children.

One parent has active Covid symtpoms and has just left an environment where others have been found to be positive for it.

That would mean that by the end of the 260 mile journey, all the others would almost certainly have contracted Covid, having been so heavily exposed to it in a small space.

The kids probably wouldn't have been badly-affected, I think it was known even then that kids wouldn't be.

But apparently the purpose of the trip was for the kids to be looked after by the grandparents, should the parents become too ill to do so.

Simply by dint of their age, the grandparents would be vulnerable, regardless of any existing co-morbidities they may or may not have had.

From what I can make out, just about every rule in the Covid book got broken, moreover, the explanation given would have seriously endangered the grandparents, so there isn't even a pragmatic or balance of probabilities argument.

Cummings doesn't have a leg to stand on, pure and unjustified selfishness from a major govt policymaker, at a time when everyone else was being told to adhere to guidelines.

The sheer scale of wrongness of what he did, on every level, simply staggers me  :unknown:.

Point well made. And as one of the architects of the lockdown he has a duty to set an example. 
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Offline Kev40ish

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Four people take a long drive in a car together, two parents and two children.

One parent has active Covid symtpoms and has just left an environment where others have been found to be positive for it.

That would mean that by the end of the 260 mile journey, all the others would almost certainly have contracted Covid, having been so heavily exposed to it in a small space.

The kids probably wouldn't have been badly-affected, I think it was known even then that kids wouldn't be.

But apparently the purpose of the trip was for the kids to be looked after by the grandparents, should the parents become too ill to do so.

Simply by dint of their age, the grandparents would be vulnerable, regardless of any existing co-morbidities they may or may not have had.

From what I can make out, just about every rule in the Covid book got broken, moreover, the explanation given would have seriously endangered the grandparents, so there isn't even a pragmatic or balance of probabilities argument.

Cummings doesn't have a leg to stand on, pure and unjustified selfishness from a major govt policymaker, at a time when everyone else was being told to adhere to guidelines.

The sheer scale of wrongness of what he did, on every level, simply staggers me  :unknown:.

The problem is everyone has already made up their minds, based on who he is rather than what he has done.

My view is simple as I explained earlier, I wouldn’t care what anyone else thought... where my family and health is concerned I’m the one that will decide. Not any politician, statistician, medical expert will dissuade me if I think it’s reasonable and the right thing to do.

Would I resign if in his position, yes I would as Id feel my position was untenable and a distraction which wouldn’t be helpful
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 03:03:32 pm by Kev40ish »

Online Doc Holliday

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Could they not have put the child in an orphanage for 10 days?

Offline Spencer Fobby

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Could they not have put the child in an orphanage for 10 days?
that actually made me properly laugh, thanks Doc
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Offline Beamer

Could they not have put the child in an orphanage for 10 days?

Wrong! Cummings should self isolate in prison.... ...... for life!

Online Doc Holliday

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that actually made me properly laugh, thanks Doc

I know things are tough but you (and others) do need to try and laugh a bit more.  ;)

TBH I'm struggling to grasp the actual facts as to what has gone on here as there are so many discrepancies in the various conflicting stories?

Offline Strawberry

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I know things are tough but you (and others) do need to try and laugh a bit more.  ;)

TBH I'm struggling to grasp the actual facts as to what has gone on here as there are so many discrepancies in the various conflicting stories?

Doc

It's wierd as wierd as the entire situation, which doesn't add up.

Yes I understand the desire to protect children, but this man is just one man below the Prime Minister - does he not check these things out?Surely he has advisors?Surely people notice he's gone for a drive, is he not worthy of security?

Offline Beamer

Doc

It's wierd as wierd as the entire situation, which doesn't add up.

Yes I understand the desire to protect children, but this man is just one man below the Prime Minister - does he not check these things out?Surely he has advisors?Surely people notice he's gone for a drive, is he not worthy of security?

Cummings thinks he is God.
Why should he need security when he can see everything?

Offline Kev40ish

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Cummings thinks he is God.
Why should he need security when he can see everything?

Similar to Prince Andrew...

Offline Whipthatbooty

Spot on.

Four people take a long drive in a car together, two parents and two children.

One parent has active Covid symtpoms and has just left an environment where others have been found to be positive for it.

That would mean that by the end of the 260 mile journey, all the others would almost certainly have contracted Covid, having been so heavily exposed to it in a small space.

The kids probably wouldn't have been badly-affected, I think it was known even then that kids wouldn't be.

But apparently the purpose of the trip was for the kids to be looked after by the grandparents, should the parents become too ill to do so.

Simply by dint of their age, the grandparents would be vulnerable, regardless of any existing co-morbidities they may or may not have had.

From what I can make out, just about every rule in the Covid book got broken, moreover, the explanation given would have seriously endangered the grandparents, so there isn't even a pragmatic or balance of probabilities argument.

Cummings doesn't have a leg to stand on, pure and unjustified selfishness from a major govt policymaker, at a time when everyone else was being told to adhere to guidelines.

The sheer scale of wrongness of what he did, on every level, simply staggers me  :unknown:.

Offline Spencer Fobby

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I know things are tough but you (and others) do need to try and laugh a bit more.  ;)

Actually what I need is an evening with my regular sugar baby.  Haven't seen her in 11 weeks...  And that's an example of how - despite my personal opinion is in opposition to the current rules of lockdown - I've still done what society expects of me... unlike certain people (cummings/ferguson et al).

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Offline winkywanky

The problem is everyone has already made up their minds, based on who he is rather than what he has done.

My view is simple as I explained earlier, I wouldn’t care what anyone else thought... where my family and health is concerned I’m the one that will decide. Not any politician, statistician, medical expert will dissuade me if I think it’s reasonable and the right thing to do.

Would I resign if in his position, yes I would as Id feel my position was untenable and a distraction which wouldn’t be helpful


I must confess I haven't followed this story very closely.

But...I think the basic facts have been established and confirmed, have they not?

Four of them drove up in a car together and Cummings was already suffering symptoms? Even if he wasn't, it was totally irresponsible because Johnson had just been diagnosed. And I believe the official line is that if both parents became ill then the grandparents could look after the kids, which is clearly insane  :unknown: Certainly not a matter for his own opinion, in the sense that it was wrong on very count, and endangered members of his own family at the very least.

Offline winkywanky

Doc

It's wierd as wierd as the entire situation, which doesn't add up.

Yes I understand the desire to protect children, but this man is just one man below the Prime Minister - does he not check these things out?Surely he has advisors?Surely people notice he's gone for a drive, is he not worthy of security?


If he's that thick that he needed an adviser to tell him this was dangerous, then despite his out-of-the-box thinking I'm genuinely alarmed that his advice helps form national policy.

Offline Marmalade

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Driving 200 miles in an enclosed space and dumping the sprogg is hardly endangering anyone. The government advice is cock-eyed, but it comes from the government: Cummings' advice to the government is frequently ignored. That hardly makes him an idiot.

Online Doc Holliday

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I must confess I haven't followed this story very closely.

But...I think the basic facts have been established and confirmed, have they not?


No it seems not? There are conflicting versions of 'the facts'. The most serious discrepancy being that Cummings and the Govt deny he was interviewed by the Police ...whereas all the papers claim Durham Police attended wherever it was he stayed?

Offline winkywanky

Having read a bit more now it seems there was some less than accurate reporting, and also I got the number of kids wrong  :rolleyes:. One four yr-old.

I did know about the separate house thing, but apparently it wasn't just the grandparents up there, it was younger members of the extended family too. So if both parents had become ill then a sprog who was very likely to be carrying Covid wouldn't necessarily be foisted on elderly grandparents. That was my main point

Therein lies the danger of (me) not paying enough attention and listening to the noise and not the facts (all of which cannot be known anyway, outside the immediate family).

Cummings is a controversial figure and a lot of people want to cut him down. This doesn't look as bad to me now as it did before though.


Online Doc Holliday

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Driving 200 miles in an enclosed space and dumping the sprogg is hardly endangering anyone.

Ironically other than the child whose welfare this was all about.

Rather like Ferguson and the Scotland MO, their actions posed little real life risk to others, but both should have known they would be called to account if caught ... and caught they were. You and I could have done this and got away with it ... assuming you are not a Scottish MP?  ;)

Offline winkywanky

I do actually think Cummings of all people would obviously have no childcare concerns personally, he is after all the govt's most senior adviser. There would be no problem, it would be sorted and in that way he is privileged.

On that score it might be considered bollocks. But in all of this there's also the emotional family element to be understood, and I think people deserve to be cut a little slack if they've actually thought things through and know they won't unnecessarily endanger others.

And although we expect our leaders to abide by the rules they set for us, that won't be, and never has been, always the case, without exception. I don't mind cutting a little slack there.

I suspect the press will keep digging though, looking for every little thing, and it will all come out.

Offline winkywanky

Ironically other than the child whose welfare this was all about.

Rather like Ferguson and the Scotland MO, their actions posed little real life risk to others, but both should have known they would be called to account if caught ... and caught they were. You and I could have done this and got away with it ... assuming you are not a Scottish MP?  ;)


I think the thing with Ferguson is slightly different, what he did might be considered somewhat frivolous, shagging his mistress.




« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 04:50:52 pm by winkywanky »

Offline Adoniron


I think the thing with Ferguson is slightly different, what he did might be considered somwhat frivolous, shagging his mistress.

Ferguson didn't have Covid at the time and he shagged his mistress in his own home.

Offline winkywanky

No it seems not? There are conflicting versions of 'the facts'. The most serious discrepancy being that Cummings and the Govt deny he was interviewed by the Police ...whereas all the papers claim Durham Police attended wherever it was he stayed?


There are indeed apparently, and it was naive of me to think otherwise  :rolleyes:  :D

The police thing is interesting, that could well come back to bite him and the govt in the arse if it were true.

Offline winkywanky

Ferguson didn't have Covid at the time and he shagged his mistress in his own home.


That's immaterial, she came to his household and that wasn't allowed IIRC?

Offline Spencer Fobby

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Ferguson didn't have Covid at the time and he shagged his mistress in his own home.
Do you know the dates that he saw his mistress? We do know that Ferguson was responsible for infecting boris, hancock and cummings...

(hancock and cummings... now there's a duo)
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Offline Stapler

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I agree he should go but No 10 is already saying his actions were ok. So do as I say and not do as I do.


Stephen Kinnock! Hello!  :dash:
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Offline Stapler

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"high profile" people caught not following the rules have resigned except........
Janrick KINNOCK and Cummings so that's a great example......
.

 :lol:
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Offline Adoniron

Do you know the dates that he saw his mistress? We do know that Ferguson was responsible for infecting boris, hancock and cummings...

(hancock and cummings... now there's a duo)

Ferguson is single and lives alone. His mistress lives with her husband and kids. Read the reports. - they met at his house.

How do you know Ferguson infected Johnson and Hancock?

Offline Adoniron


Stephen Kinnock! Hello!  :dash:

He sat in his dad's front garden for a couple of hours. He didn't move in with him for two weeks.