New English National Anthem

[Pedalwall]

I shall go against everyone and say stick with "God Save the Queen"


Only sing it even slower so the opposition eoither fall asleep or get so pissed off and bored it puts them off their game.


Jeez........its like listening to a feckin funeral march sometimes.
I doubt it will ever be changed. The old fogeys and old school tie network will keep it in place.
Which is very strange as i think if there were ever a vote for a change....it would go through.

But what for ?

Liked quote I read recently that GSTQ is a plea to someone who doesn't exist for someone who shouldn't!!

[sparkus]

'Jerusalem' is the de facto national anthem of England and consistently tops public polls.  Something about it also captures the spirit of the team.

We will get stuck with GSTQ (and not even the Sex Pistols' version) as the current government are weird fetishists for all it stands for (monarchy, crushing the Scots etc), largely as they think they have to make up for a decade plus of unBritishness under Blair, Brown and even Cameron.

[winkywanky]

'Jerusalem' is the de facto national anthem of England and consistently tops public polls.  Something about it also captures the spirit of the team.

We will get stuck with GSTQ (and not even the Sex Pistols' version) as the current government are weird fetishists for all it stands for (monarchy, crushing the Scots etc), largely as they think they have to make up for a decade plus of unBritishness under Blair, Brown and even Cameron.

It might be argued that they all displayed precisely Britishness!   

I think with a slight but imaginative rewrite of the lyrics, the overall pastoral feel and evocativeness and 'longing' which Jerusalem engenders in yer average knotted-hankywearing, pasty Englishman, could be extended to be more welcoming of our multicultural society, and give everyone a feelgood factor?

Wouldn't that be great?

You kind of want something that makes you simultaneoulsy well up a little bit, and stick your chest out (and who knows, maybe even be a little bit scared of a policeman, or is that expecting too much?  )

[sparkus]

It might be argued that they all displayed precisely Britishness!   

I think with a slight but imaginative rewrite of the lyrics, the overall pastoral feel and evocativeness and 'longing' which Jerusalem engenders in yer average knotted-hankywearing, pasty Englishman, could be extended to be more welcoming of our multicultural society, and give everyone a feelgood factor?

Wouldn't that be great?

You kind of want something that makes you simultaneoulsy well up a little bit, and stick your chest out (and who knows, maybe even be a little bit scared of a policeman, or is that expecting too much?  )

Sailing as close to the political wind as I can, there's a consistent thread among Tory websites, chatsites etc. (yes, I do read them, plus other parties) which runs as follows:

- EU toadies Blair and Brown vandalised the UK with a foreign 'Supreme Court' and disrespected Her Majesty by reforming the Lord Chancellor
- Cameron was just as bad with his chattering class Lib Dem mates and unnecessary Scottish independence referendum etc

Thus, Brexit now done, the work lies ahead to restore the UK to its rightful glory, particularly through the monarchy (royal yacht, anyone?) and unionism.  Rewind the clock to 1997, basically.

[winkywanky]

...blimey, what could possibly go wrong with that then?   

[sparkus]

...blimey, what could possibly go wrong with that then?   

I suppose in the grand scheme of things these don't exactly deprive anyone of food on their table, it's just a quaint obsession for a part of the population with more money than sense.

I've no time for woke idiocy or flag-shagging either.

[winkywanky]

I think (and hope) that we can all find a middle ground where everyone can feel happy and comfortable, to be proud of being English.

I think it's certainly true that while Scots, Welsh and N. Irish are all able to feel a strong sense of national pride, for various reasons the English do not, and haven't for some time. It's sad, it's not good for social cohesion, and it doesn't have to be that way.

[sparkus]

I think (and hope) that we can all find a middle ground where everyone can feel happy and comfortable, to be proud of being English.

I think it's certainly true that while Scots, Welsh and N. Irish are all able to feel a strong sense of national pride, for various reasons the English do not, and haven't for some time. It's sad, it's not good for social cohesion, and it doesn't have to be that way.

Agree one hundred percent, but I would like to see examples of people being ashamed to be English or preventing it from being celebrated.  The only one I can think of is Emily Thornberry's tweet of nearly a decade ago and even then she was pretty much sacked on the spot.

As some have pointed out over the years, it's almost un-English to get too worked up about the flag as one of our qualities is reserve.

The Celtic nations have centuries of languages and folklore in a way that we don't (unless you count Morris dancing...) and this contributes to their sense of national pride and belonging.  Even then, one half of Northern Ireland looks to a foreign country and the other across a sea to countries they're not even part of (England and Scotland).

It is good that following the recent Euros there's a lot more debate about what it means to be English and the players and manager have acquitted themselves well on that score, compared to the flag-waving yobs you used to see.

[winkywanky]

Agree one hundred percent, but I would like to see examples of people being ashamed to be English or preventing it from being celebrated.  The only one I can think of is Emily Thornberry's tweet of nearly a decade ago and even then she was pretty much sacked on the spot.

As some have pointed out over the years, it's almost un-English to get too worked up about the flag as one of our qualities is reserve.

The Celtic nations have centuries of languages and folklore in a way that we don't (unless you count Morris dancing...) and this contributes to their sense of national pride and belonging.  Even then, one half of Northern Ireland looks to a foreign country and the other across a sea to countries they're not even part of (England and Scotland).

It is good that following the recent Euros there's a lot more debate about what it means to be English and the players and manager have acquitted themselves well on that score, compared to the flag-waving yobs you used to see.

Football is a mixed bag of course, it has the power to bring us together with its tribalistic nature, yet at exactly the same time, and for the same reason, you see these fucking wankers spouting racist bile all over the internet.

I gave up really following football many years ago, partly because of that tribal thing, partly because of all the on-pitch handbags.

True what you say about the Celts, the rest of us (in England) are in effect a diverse mix of Germanic, Scandi, Eyetie and Gallic (and of course these days, African and S. Asian too  ), so maybe that's at least partly at the root of it all? But also of course, our colonial background, whether that be constantly invading Scotland, Wales and Ireland, and latterly India, North America and the Far East. What a bunch of gallivanting bastards we are! And we are, rightly or wrongly, constantly getting digged at over that past.

I guess you might almost put it on a par with Germany after WW2, they only really stopped constantly apologising for what happened after about 2000 (while of course in the intervening 50-odd years, easily overtaking us in the industrial stakes).

[NotTooOld4It]

I know.... Maybe it's naive and wishful thinking to expect a serious response to this.
I'm not anti royal.... Just fed up and frustrated that for sporting events (remember them) or state occasions,
the Ol 'God Save The Queen' just doesn't do it for me, especially compared to the rousing anthems of Wales and Scotland.
Australia managed to get their own. Why not England
Maybe if Andrew's on this forum, he might have a suggestion😁

Answers on a postage stamp............ And yes I'm hoping for some serious answers, but naturally fully expecting some irreverent , sarcastic and humorous suggestions.

 "Rose of England" would be my choice. There are a few versions of it on YouTube but they're all too melodramatic, but if you ignore that, it's appropriate.

[sir wanksalot]

Patriotism is dying if not already dead in this country.

Very sad.

Overt patriotism over the decades was closely linked or associated (often wrongly) with far right sympathies and now it's like trying to flog a dead horse.

Compare our aversion to "celebrating our flag" or even our anthem with other countries and the difference is stark.

[sparkus]

Patriotism is dying if not already dead in this country.

Very sad.

Overt patriotism over the decades was closely linked or associated (often wrongly) with far right sympathies and now it's like trying to flog a dead horse.

Compare our aversion to "celebrating our flag" or even our anthem with other countries and the difference is stark.

I think the understated English have it about just right really.

It's not even about the right/left axis, look at the flag worship and idiotiic parades in China and Cuba (national motto 'Patria O Muerte').

Last Night of the Proms is pretty tame by comparison.

[winkywanky]

I think the understated English have it about just right really.

It's not even about the right/left axis, look at the flag worship and idiotiic parades in China and Cuba (national motto 'Patria O Muerte').

Last Night of the Proms is pretty tame by comparison.

It is, but even that came under attack relatively recently, for 'glorifying our hideous colonial past'.

If we can't find a way to be proud to be English then not only is it a big shame, we also lose something very fundamental about our heritage.

[sparkus]

It is, but even that came under attack relatively recently, for 'glorifying our hideous colonial past'.

If we can't find a way to be proud to be English then not only is it a big shame, we also lose something very fundamental about our heritage.

We are who we are and that colonial past (or more to the point, global past - there are significant migrant communities in London from places which were never part of the Empire) accounts for the existence of many non-white heritages.  That's not to either celebrate or disparage it, it's just a fact.

I was reading something recently which said that the vast majority of people now see English as a civic rather than ethnic identity and that's the way it should be.  Until people can view English, Scottish, Welsh and whatever variant of Irish they prefer as equally valid and non-threatening then can't really call ourselves a mature society.  The problem is that people right or left see it as British and/or Scottish etc but not British and English.  I think the same statistics also said that more people view themselves as English than British now too.

I'm definitely English and of various mixed heritages but I don't feel any particular affinity or interest to Scotland or its people.  They have every right to celebrate who they are but I don't feel that I'm part of something with them just because I share a passport and a currency.  I can see why Billy Connolly said they had to settle for a "wee pretendy parliament" though.  It's not something that bothers me, keeps me awake at night or makes me want to join a political party, just a sense of indifference really.  Ultimately it will be that indifference of 4/5 of the UK which gradually unpicks the Union and allows it to go its separate ways (not great news if you're a chest-beating Paisleyite or looking forward to a glorious reign of King Charles though).

[winkywanky]

We are who we are and that colonial past (or more to the point, global past - there are significant migrant communities in London from places which were never part of the Empire) accounts for the existence of many non-white heritages.  That's not to either celebrate or disparage it, it's just a fact.

I was reading something recently which said that the vast majority of people now see English as a civic rather than ethnic identity and that's the way it should be.  Until people can view English, Scottish, Welsh and whatever variant of Irish they prefer as equally valid and non-threatening then can't really call ourselves a mature society.  The problem is that people right or left see it as British and/or Scottish etc but not British and English.  I think the same statistics also said that more people view themselves as English than British now too.

I'm definitely English and of various mixed heritages but I don't feel any particular affinity or interest to Scotland or its people.  They have every right to celebrate who they are but I don't feel that I'm part of something with them just because I share a passport and a currency.  I can see why Billy Connolly said they had to settle for a "wee pretendy parliament" though.  It's not something that bothers me, keeps me awake at night or makes me want to join a political party, just a sense of indifference really.  Ultimately it will be that indifference of 4/5 of the UK which gradually unpicks the Union and allows it to go its separate ways (not great news if you're a chest-beating Paisleyite or looking forward to a glorious reign of King Charles though).

Absolutely that's the way it should be. Too damned right. I want everyone to feel part of it.

But then you have to recognise that that English heritage was forged by the people who lived here for the previous 1000yrs. The majority here suffered for that as well, by modern standards. We were putting 8yr-old kids up chimneys not much more than 100yrs ago, tens of thousands were effectively in forced servitude, either working the land or in rich people's houses.

Others are part of that heritage too but from afar, and their ancestors were often downtrodden, used. That was then, this is now. To constantly attack and criticise what happened in the past, and then happily reap the benefits of that is damaging and counterproductive. It wrecks any cohesion, and I think we have seen a lot of that lately. Then comes the endless handwringing by the middle-classes and the endless apologies, which in my view confers an unjustified sense of entitlement, which in turns causes resentment in a lot of the majority.

Let's all recognise what happened (and it wasn't all bad actually) and let's all move forward together.


I think you are right that the Union will eventually dissolve, obviousy with the Welsh, last. What I don't want to see is the EU gleefully and unfairly tinkering to that end. And I just hope it doesn't end acrimoniously, but I fear it will, just like any other divorce where there are lawyers. And there will of course, necessarily be lawyers.

[sparkus]

Absolutely that's the way it should be. Too damned right. I want everyone to feel part of it.

But then you have to recognise that that English heritage was forged by the people who lived here for the previous 1000yrs. The majority here suffered for that as well, by modern standards. We were putting 8yr-old kids up chimneys not much more than 100yrs ago, tens of thousands were effectively in forced servitude, either working the land or in rich people's houses.

Others are part of that heritage too but from afar, and their ancestors were often downtrodden, used. That was then, this is now. To constantly attack and criticise what happened in the past, and then happily reap the benefits of that is damaging and counterproductive. It wrecks any cohesion, and I think we have seen a lot of that lately. Then comes the endless handwringing by the middle-classes and the endless apologies, which in my view confers an unjustified sense of entitlement, which in turns causes resentment in a lot of the majority.

Let's all recognise what happened (and it wasn't all bad actually) and let's all move forward together.


I think you are right that the Union will eventually dissolve, obviousy with the Welsh, last. What I don't want to see is the EU gleefully and unfairly tinkering to that end. And I just hope it doesn't end acrimoniously, but I fear it will, just like any other divorce where there are lawyers. And there will of course, necessarily be lawyers.

That's why I've never got the whole royalty fetish, which is basically celebrating subjugation of your ancestors by feudal overlords.  Life for most was, as the phrase went, "nasty, brutal and short".  Well, not for everyone.  The same goes for religion, which in most cases involved burning people at the stake or worse for modestly different interpretations of things that probably never even happened.  I suppose in most cases of these now it's older people who don't have consumerism or Love Island as something to cling to.

Welsh nationalism is on the rise, not on account of Plaid Cymru (which has long been seen as an eccentric cause) but I think even Welsh Labourites are quite exasperated at how they're taken for granted as lobby fodder and distant cousins by both political parties.  Even they have a better national anthem at sporting events than us and a more vibrant cultural history to point to as well.

[winkywanky]

That's why I've never got the whole royalty fetish, which is basically celebrating subjugation of your ancestors by feudal overlords.  Life for most was, as the phrase went, "nasty, brutal and short".  Well, not for everyone.  The same goes for religion, which in most cases involved burning people at the stake or worse for modestly different interpretations of things that probably never even happened.  I suppose in most cases of these now it's older people who don't have consumerism or Love Island as something to cling to.

Welsh nationalism is on the rise, not on account of Plaid Cymru (which has long been seen as an eccentric cause) but I think even Welsh Labourites are quite exasperated at how they're taken for granted as lobby fodder and distant cousins by both political parties.  Even they have a better national anthem at sporting events than us and a more vibrant cultural history to point to as well.

Why 'fetish'?  I quite like Her Maj, but I would never have a wank over her, it wouldn't seem right  .

I would say, that's the essence of being English, just like our gallows humour, just like our propensity to laugh at ourselves. IMO it is a very big part of what makes us, us.

We chose a path which meant we didn't decapitate our Royal Family or simply shoot them, like France and Russia did. I like that. They are unelected, but symbolic, historical figureheads with virtually no real power. They have soft power, which can be used abroad, to great effect, for example.

[sparkus]

I once had to attend a work event on Consumer Law in Wales (don't ask) and the speaker said the main reason why it's harder to give Wales more legal control over anything compared to Scotland is the fact the English and Welsh settlements are so close together whereas Scotland has a vast swathe of countryside between it and England.  That kind of goes out of the window when you consider that the two halves of Ireland are now having to learn very quickly about such things (I did enjoy the night out in Cardiff afterwards though, one of the parts of the Union where Friday night tit flashing seems publicly acceptable still).

[sparkus]

Why 'fetish'?  I quite like Her Maj, but I would never have a wank over her, it wouldn't seem right  .

I would say, that's the essence of being English, just like our gallows humour, just like our propensity to laugh at ourselves. IMO it is a very big part of what makes us, us.

We chose a path which meant we didn't decapitate our Royal Family or simply shoot them, like France and Russia did. I like that. They are unelected, but symbolic, historical figureheads with virtually no real power. They have soft power, which can be used abroad, to great effect, for example.

External Link/Members Only

[winkywanky]

I thought you would bring chebs into it somewhere   

[sparkus]

I thought you would bring chebs into it somewhere   

I fear it points to a demise of our national identity if young ladies can't randomly disrobe and flash at strangers on a night out.

[winkywanky]

I fear it points to a demise of our national identity if young ladies can't randomly disrobe and flash at strangers on a night out.

Agreed, 100%, it's PC gone wrong.

One of my mates' old gfs was a really nice girl, in the middle of a tough Uni course etc, he was a bit of rough for her. She had an absolutely magnificent pair of tits  .

One day we were all round his gaff having a beer, and my mate suggested we all might like to go in the other room, where if we all got our cocks out, she would get her tits out. Foolishly I felt this was beneath me (also truth be told, I had a semi on and would have been embarrassed) so I and one other, nerdy guy, missed out.

However, later on as we all went our separate ways (and my mate was taking his gf down the pub) she simply and happily lifted up her sweatshirt and gave her gorgous mammaries a good old shake and shimmy to everyone's delight. Nice girl  .

[sir wanksalot]

I think the understated English have it about just right really.

It's not even about the right/left axis, look at the flag worship and idiotiic parades in China and Cuba (national motto 'Patria O Muerte').

Last Night of the Proms is pretty tame by comparison.

I think we could do with a tad more fervent patriotism to be honest. China is bordering on North Korea-style worship but there are other countries where patriotism needn't be a toxic element of a country's psyche.

It's difficult in this social media age but we need to stop giving such a prominent voice to those who are ashamed of our history. History cannot be painted in black and white-context has to be added into the mix.

An inconvenient truth is that there were also many black slave traders profiting from the slave trade.

[sparkus]

I think we could do with a tad more fervent patriotism to be honest. China is bordering on North Korea-style worship but there are other countries where patriotism needn't be a toxic element of a country's psyche

France, Spain and Italy do national chauvinism in spades.  National and local officials wear sashes in the colours of the flag and no one questions this or considers it 'toxic'.  By comparison, can you imagine Boris on TV in a Union Jack waistcoat (well, yes I can but...)

On the other hand, you don't really see Merkel posing in front of a flag like Macron does or the Scandis for that matter and definitely not the Irish with their quite understated arrangements.  Perhaps it's a southern European/Latin thing?

[winkywanky]

France, Spain and Italy do national chauvinism in spades.  National and local officials wear sashes in the colours of the flag and no one questions this or considers it 'toxic'.  By comparison, can you imagine Boris on TV in a Union Jack waistcoat (well, yes I can but...)

On the other hand, you don't really see Merkel posing in front of a flag like Macron does or the Scandis for that matter and definitely not the Irish with their quite understated arrangements.  Perhaps it's a southern European/Latin thing?

IMO that is almost certainly to do with Germany's Nazi history. They are very, very aware of what nationalism can do.

Have you ever been down your local high street on St. Paddy's Day? C'mon! 

Scandis are...different.It's also why they dealt with Covid differently, but all that shit is on another thread.

[sparkus]

Agreed, 100%, it's PC gone wrong.

One of my mates' old gfs was a really nice girl, in the middle of a tough Uni course etc, he was a bit of rough for her. She had an absolutely magnificent pair of tits  .

One day we were all round his gaff having a beer, and my mate suggested we all might like to go in the other room, where if we all got our cocks out, she would get her tits out. Foolishly I felt this was beneath me (also truth be told, I had a semi on and would have been embarrassed) so I and one other, nerdy guy, missed out.

However, later on as we all went our separate ways (and my mate was taking his gf down the pub) she simply and happily lifted up her sweatshirt and gave her gorgous mammaries a good old shake and shimmy to everyone's delight. Nice girl  .

It's never happened to me with friends but then again I can't think of any I'd want to see.  The last time I went on holiday as a couple with a mate and his missus they were in one piece swimwear unlike the rest of the beaches.  We made friends with some people and our missuses were kicking off big time that those women felt they could go topless in front of their blokes etc. (I was not complaining...)

A bird at work once said/complained that her sister had much bigger breasts than her and that "whenever she's out it's knockers out for the lads" but sadly I never got to see.

The last time I saw it happen in London was a couple of years ago when two not particularly attractive emo-goth girls did it at the top of a tube escalator one Friday night.  I suppose technically this would count as indecent exposure and with CCTV around, so quite brave.

[sir wanksalot]

France, Spain and Italy do national chauvinism in spades.  National and local officials wear sashes in the colours of the flag and no one questions this or considers it 'toxic'.  By comparison, can you imagine Boris on TV in a Union Jack waistcoat (well, yes I can but...)

On the other hand, you don't really see Merkel posing in front of a flag like Macron does or the Scandis for that matter and definitely not the Irish with their quite understated arrangements.  Perhaps it's a southern European/Latin thing?

America is a prime example. Let's remove Trump from the scenario as his existence poisoned the whole American patriotism thing but I remember when I lived there people are proud to display their flag on 4th July. Military veterans are respected and proud to walk the streets in uniform. Every classroom has an American flag and the pledge of allegiance was recited each morning.

Britain is an odd egg by comparison. Other than sporting led patriotism and St George's Day (though I am not entirely sure that really counts) then we have a bit of a problem with it.)

I will not mention Br***** but all talk over the last few years has been about sovereignty when what really should be discussed more is identity.

[winkywanky]

In the US, schoolkids still pledge allegiance to the Flag every morning I think?

Something similar was mooted here some time ago (not quite as 'blunt') but this was immediately shot down in flames IIRC?

[Marmalade]

If there’s a new anthem it will probably have to be sung on one knee and only by transgender people of colour. Words like “We love England but we love Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland equally as we do all the countries in the world” and must not include any non-inclusive pronouns like “he” or “she”. White males will be required to listen in silence with bowed head though women will be allowed to applaud. The tune could be made out of bland cover versions of every other nation and country’s anthem and sung on One World Day.

  

[sir wanksalot]

If there’s a new anthem it will probably have to be sung on one knee and only by transgender people of colour. Words like “We love England but we love Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland equally as we do all the countries in the world” and must not include any non-inclusive pronouns like “he” or “she”. White males will be required to listen in silence with bowed head though women will be allowed to applaud. The tune could be made out of bland cover versions of every other nation and country’s anthem and sung on One World Day.

  

Would be safer just to make it an instrumental version 

[scutty brown]

France, Spain and Italy do national chauvinism in spades.  National and local officials wear sashes in the colours of the flag and no one questions this or considers it 'toxic'.  By comparison, can you imagine Boris on TV in a Union Jack waistcoat (well, yes I can but...)

On the other hand, you don't really see Merkel posing in front of a flag like Macron does or the Scandis for that matter and definitely not the Irish with their quite understated arrangements.  Perhaps it's a southern European/Latin thing?

But those three countries are still living the nationalistic indoctrination promulgated by Napoleon, Franco and Mussolini. Despite the horrors of their rule, many people in those countries look back at their historic "strong men" with respect

[winkywanky]

But those three countries are still living the nationalistic indoctrination promulgated by Napoleon, Franco and Mussolini. Despite the horrors of their rule, many people in those countries look back at their historic "strong men" with respect

I get your drift but with specific reference to Spain, I would say they are pretty well split down the middle regarding Franco. Some horrific things happened not so very long ago and the scars still run deep. There's perhaps half the country who have no respect for him, and he only buggered off in about 1975?

France yes, they can all get behind the little short guy from a couple of hundred years ago (hell, they even voted one in recently  ) and they are well rid of their Monarchy (Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité as a result).

Italy's a funny one: they can still be Nationalistic despite Fascist Mussolini being Hitler's mate, because they changed sides (to the winning side  ) and strung up the bastard.

[scutty brown]

We chose a path which meant we didn't decapitate our Royal Family or simply shoot them, like France and Russia did.

Oliver Cromwell made a good start on the job though.........

[winkywanky]

Oliver Cromwell made a good start on the job though.........

Yes, but the job never got finished  .

I tend to think we've ended up with a pretty good compromise, with Monarch as a symbolic figurehead alongside a democratically elected parliament. None of this silly president rubbish  .

[sparkus]

America is a prime example. Let's remove Trump from the scenario as his existence poisoned the whole American patriotism thing but I remember when I lived there people are proud to display their flag on 4th July. Military veterans are respected and proud to walk the streets in uniform. Every classroom has an American flag and the pledge of allegiance was recited each morning.

Britain is an odd egg by comparison. Other than sporting led patriotism and St George's Day (though I am not entirely sure that really counts) then we have a bit of a problem with it.)

I will not mention Br***** but all talk over the last few years has been about sovereignty when what really should be discussed more is identity.

I think the Pledge of Allegiance and Star Spangled Banner stuff is on the wane but in terms of the flag there's "bipartisan" acceptance if not ownership of it.  Holidays like Labor Day and Thanksgiving are pretty patriotic affairs, even if they're more celebrating food and each other rather than a bunch of rich people chucking perfectly good tea into a harbour to make a point.

Even flag-burning, long seen as a fundamental if not contradictory freedom of speech issue is on the wane.

Then again, gun ownership questions tend to get wrapped up in patriotic fervour.  Not sure we want to import that?

[sparkus]

Going back to my earlier point, some kind of four nations contest to see who of the English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish had the best pair of resplendent chebs could unify the kingdom when others have failed?

They could call it 'Breast of British'.

[jj8989]

I quite like the rugby one, sweet chariot song. That one rouses me more than the queen song..

[Blackpool Rock]

Yes, but the job never got finished  .

I tend to think we've ended up with a pretty good compromise, with Monarch as a symbolic figurehead alongside a democratically elected parliament. None of this silly president rubbish  .

Well Cromwell did actually get rid of the monarchy but we invited them back after he died

[winkywanky]

I think the Pledge of Allegiance and Star Spangled Banner stuff is on the wane but in terms of the flag there's "bipartisan" acceptance if not ownership of it.  Holidays like Labor Day and Thanksgiving are pretty patriotic affairs, even if they're more celebrating food and each other rather than a bunch of rich people chucking perfectly good tea into a harbour to make a point.

Even flag-burning, long seen as a fundamental if not contradictory freedom of speech issue is on the wane.

Then again, gun ownership questions tend to get wrapped up in patriotic fervour.  Not sure we want to import that?

There's no danger of that.

Basically the first Americans stole what is now the USA, off the indigenous peoples as they settled further and further west, and that was done with guns. They made the what is USA on the premise of gun-firepower. That's effectively why they (politically at least) hang on to the right to bear arms, and it is of course enshrined in their constitution. They founded the USA on guns, it's ingrained in their psyche and identity. You can go buy a gun in Walmart (their Tescos). As an aside, laughingly they frequently refer to us as those colonial Brits, at least we gave it all back    .

It's a bit like nuclear power, once you have the weaponry, you can't uninvent it, it will always be there. It would take decades of gun amnesties and many setbacks along the way, to ever get guns out of the hands of the ordinary American who chooses to hold one.

[sir wanksalot]

I think the Pledge of Allegiance and Star Spangled Banner stuff is on the wane but in terms of the flag there's "bipartisan" acceptance if not ownership of it.  Holidays like Labor Day and Thanksgiving are pretty patriotic affairs, even if they're more celebrating food and each other rather than a bunch of rich people chucking perfectly good tea into a harbour to make a point.

Even flag-burning, long seen as a fundamental if not contradictory freedom of speech issue is on the wane.

Then again, gun ownership questions tend to get wrapped up in patriotic fervour.  Not sure we want to import that?

I don't believe the Pledge of Allegiance is on the wane as it is still recited in classrooms throughout the country but I am open to correction if you know better.

I get your point about Labor Day and Thanksgiving Day being mostly about food but these are national holidays rather than days associated with patriotism.

Gun ownership isn't really associated with patriotism. Many Americans believe the right to bear arms is enshrined within the Constitution.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Gun ownership isn't really associated with patriotism. Many Americans believe the right to bear arms is enshrined within the Constitution.

Thank fuck that isn't the case here, else if my loopy ex had a gun she'd have been banged up; ... and i'd be pushin up  .. Dasies!!!

[winkywanky]

Gun ownership isn't really associated with patriotism. Many Americans believe the right to bear arms is enshrined within the Constitution.

Thank fuck that isn't the case here, else if my loopy ex had a gun she'd have been banged up; ... and i'd be pushin up  .. Dasies!!!

Yanks don't believe the right to bear arms is enshrined in their constituiton, it IS enshrined in their constitution.

[sparkus]

I don't believe the Pledge of Allegiance is on the wane as it is still recited in classrooms throughout the country but I am open to correction if you know better.

I get your point about Labor Day and Thanksgiving Day being mostly about food but these are national holidays rather than days associated with patriotism.

Gun ownership isn't really associated with patriotism. Many Americans believe the right to bear arms is enshrined within the Constitution.

It's a decreasing number of schools though: External Link/Members Only

The US Constitution itself is kinda something which inspires much patriotism and the right to bear arms is seen as testimony to that.  Removing it or watering it down in any way is seen as "un-American".

[winkywanky]

Seems to be about half then?

In some schools they've stopped because they put religion above 'worship of the state'. That in itself is potentially a little worrying, with the way the Bible Belt is in the US, and the political influence thay have. I find it distasteful...no, sickening, the way some propsective Presidents kowtow to them, as well as the Gun Lobby in the US  .

[sir wanksalot]

Seems to be about half then?

In some schools they've stopped because they put religion above 'worship of the state'. That in itself is potentially a little worrying, with the way the Bible Belt is in the US, and the political influence thay have. I find it distasteful...no, sickening, the way some propsective Presidents kowtow to them, as well as the Gun Lobby in the US  .

That is if we are to believe the word of a writer from Quora as gospel

It may well be true though.

[winkywanky]

Fair point, well made 

[sparkus]

External Link/Members Only

[Marmalade]

Respecting country and flag doesn’t mean agreeing with the politics: it means taking a pride in the patch of earth upon which you live with others. If you can’t respect that, find a patch of Earth somewhere where you can.

God Save the Queen is the British National Anthem, dour as it is (a bit like our weather).

You don’t need ‘official’ anthems for the individual nations:
they are the songs sung spontaneously by the populous on appropriate occasions.
In England it is Land of Hope and Glory.
In Scotland it is Flower of Scotland.
I’m unfamiliar with what it is in Wales, though I am reliably informed it has nothing to do with sheep.

[snaitram99]

Yanks don't believe the right to bear arms is enshrined in their constituiton, it IS enshrined in their constitution.

But they usually overlook the bit about a well regulated Militia.

[sparkus]

Respecting country and flag doesn’t mean agreeing with the politics: it means taking a pride in the patch of earth upon which you live with others. If you can’t respect that, find a patch of Earth somewhere where you can.

God Save the Queen is the British National Anthem, dour as it is (a bit like our weather).

You don’t need ‘official’ anthems for the individual nations:
they are the songs sung spontaneously by the populous on appropriate occasions.
In England it is Land of Hope and Glory.
In Scotland it is Flower of Scotland.
I’m unfamiliar with what it is in Wales, though I am reliably informed it has nothing to do with sheep.

There's probably a lot in the Peoples Republic of China who don't sign up to the socialist regime but still want to see their compatriots do well at sports and support the economy doing well.