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Author Topic: BAREBACK  (Read 31213 times)

I am intrigued by your question "so, was i lucky?" King Nuts, i would say yes but have you another theory or thoughts on why you didnt catch anything?:)



It was sort of rhetorical. Perhaps I was lucky. Then again, there's no such thing as luck. In the early 1980s, I was in a band, and we went all over the world, shagging anything we could. I don't think I used a condom once, and - sorry if this seems immodest, but it's true - I must have shagged something between 300 and 400 women, though at the time, I wasn't keeping count. Then, in the mid 80s I settled down with a girl and stopped all that. Fast forward to 2002 and I was once again single, and went on something of a sex bender all over again. This time, condoms were present, but used maybe once in a while.

So I reckon, in my life, I've shagged hundreds of women without a condom. In writing, it sounds awful. It makes me sounds like some kind of irresponsible braggard, but at the time.... you know how it is. You've had a nice evening. She seems like a nice girl. You weren't necessarily anticipating sex, but you're suddenly back at your/her place, there's a lot of panting going on. What are you going to do?

So was I lucky? I don't know. I may well have dodged several bullets. I know that in the cold light of day, I wouldn't have supported anyone else doing what I did. Perhaps that makes me a hypocrit. But in the mid 80s, the AIDS paranoia got to me as much as the next guy. And it turned out to be....not quite as everyone said it was. One million people in the UK did not die of AIDS. AIDS has not infected the white, non-drug using, hetero population in the UK. It just hasn't. And perhaps we all got complacent about that.



Offline smiths

It was sort of rhetorical. Perhaps I was lucky. Then again, there's no such thing as luck. In the early 1980s, I was in a band, and we went all over the world, shagging anything we could. I don't think I used a condom once, and - sorry if this seems immodest, but it's true - I must have shagged something between 300 and 400 women, though at the time, I wasn't keeping count. Then, in the mid 80s I settled down with a girl and stopped all that. Fast forward to 2002 and I was once again single, and went on something of a sex bender all over again. This time, condoms were present, but used maybe once in a while.

So I reckon, in my life, I've shagged hundreds of women without a condom. In writing, it sounds awful. It makes me sounds like some kind of irresponsible braggard, but at the time.... you know how it is. You've had a nice evening. She seems like a nice girl. You weren't necessarily anticipating sex, but you're suddenly back at your/her place, there's a lot of panting going on. What are you going to do?

So was I lucky? I don't know. I may well have dodged several bullets. I know that in the cold light of day, I wouldn't have supported anyone else doing what I did. Perhaps that makes me a hypocrit. But in the mid 80s, the AIDS paranoia got to me as much as the next guy. And it turned out to be....not quite as everyone said it was. One million people in the UK did not die of AIDS. AIDS has not infected the white, non-drug using, hetero population in the UK. It just hasn't. And perhaps we all got complacent about that.

Sounds great fun to me. :)  I started punting at the height of the first AIDS campaign so this has coloured  my thinking about BB no doubt about that. I would certainly be worried about catching something which would spoil my punting vibe, having a condom rip was bad enough. I virtually always have condoms on me in case of getting lucky. :D


Offline enzio

How do I know? Over the last few years, I've been tested for every possible disease or infection. Several times. Including some fairly esoteric chromosome stuff that I didn't fully understand. And I came up negative on every count, every time.

Not to split hairs but its pretty difficult (if not impossible) to test for every possible disease or infection.  In terms of STD's alone, are you sure you have been tested for HSV2 (or 1 for that matter) which has nothing to do with your chromosomes?  Usually you would only be tested once sores appear.  To test before sores appear would require a spinal tap and that test is usually unreliable (hence not very common).

What about HPV?  Rarely are men tested for HPV, particularly in the UK, so why were you?

Just because you have had a problem which required you to have your chromosomes checked or because you went to the GUM regularly does not mean that you have been checked for every possible STD.  Additionally, even if you have been tested regularly there is always false negative test results.  I appreciate false negative results are rare but they do happen.

If you have slept with anyone since you were tested then you may have picked up something recently and not know.

In the event, that you are some statistical miracle of science and you have been tested recently for everything and picked up nothing then my hat of to you.  We should be studying you  :D

I don't understand this constant preoccupation with bareback. It is the natural way to have sex.

Of course, it's simple common sense not to have bareback with prostitutes because they're mine, yours, his, sometimes hers, anybody's, as long as they get paid for it. That's why prostitutes have very little self-esteem.

But with a wife or a girlfriend, bareback is natural and desirable. They would react with horror if you tried to suggest using a condom since condom use is associated with prostitutes. In fact, you'd cop it, because the way a woman's suspicious mind works, she'd think that because you suggested condom that that must mean you're using prostitutes.

It's only in the prostitution world that bareback is to be avoided, in the real world, it is natural and desirable.

I actually prefer sex with a condom (a lot cleaner and more comfortable).  I used condoms with my wife (except when trying for babies) before I saw any WG and continue to do so on the odd occasion we have sex.  So far as I am aware she doesn't suspect a thing.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 10:06:20 PM by enzio »

Not to split hairs but its pretty difficult (if not impossible) to test for every possible disease or infection.  In terms of STD's alone, are you sure you have been tested for HSV2 (or 1 for that matter) which has nothing to do with your chromosomes?  Usually you would only be tested once sores appear.  To test before sores appear would require a spinal tap and that test is usually unreliable (hence not very common).

What about HPV?  Rarely are men tested for HPV, particularly in the UK, so why were you?

Just because you have had a problem which required you to have your chromosomes checked or because you went to the GUM regularly does not mean that you have been checked for every possible STD.  Additionally, even if you have been tested regularly there is always false negative test results.  I appreciate false negative results are rare but they do happen.

If you have slept with anyone since you were tested then you may have picked up something recently and not know.

In the event, that you are some statistical miracle of science and you have been tested recently for everything and picked up nothing then my hat of to you.  We should be studying you  :D

I actually prefer sex with a condom (a lot cleaner and more comfortable).  I used condoms with my wife (except when trying for babies) before I saw any WG and continue to do so on the odd occasion we have sex.  So far as I am aware she doesn't suspect a thing.

I am not a doctor, so I don't claim to be any kind of an expert. But I have had two medical issues to deal with in recent times. One is fertility, and my GF and I underwent several courses of IVF, in more than one country, a few years ago. As part of this, I got tested for what I thought was every possible disease, ailment or condition. Or at least, that's what I was told. And I know these fuckers are extremely thorough. Came through clear, and am now a parent of two lovely children.

The second was what turned out to be a prostate disorder, and again, as a part of that treatment, I've had innumerable tests, in three different hospitals by several different doctors and specialists, for everything. Again, got the all clear.

You seem like a guy who wants me to have caught a nasty, so I'm sorry to have disappointed you.

Offline Shade

But with a wife or a girlfriend, bareback is natural and desirable. They would react with horror if you tried to suggest using a condom since condom use is associated with prostitutes. In fact, you'd cop it, because the way a woman's suspicious mind works, she'd think that because you suggested condom that that must mean you're using prostitutes.

I really don't think that applies to all women. I've had girlfriends in the past who have insisted on condom use as they don't want to risk pregnancy and the pill is never 100%. And some just want to stay safe - until you can both be tested six months after your relationship began (and I so don't know how to have that conversation!) you can never be completely certain that the other doesn't have anything, and neither can they.

I also know a married couple who always use condoms - she's on the pill too, but they've already got two screaming monsters and definitely don't want a third! ;)

That all said, I love bareback with longterm partners. And because I love it so much, I'd never risk never being able to have it again by having bareback sex with a working girl who offered such a service.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 10:48:14 PM by Shade »

Offline enzio

Truly no; I don't wish you to have caught any "nasties" but the likelihood of you having slept with "300 to 400" women and not caught anything is statistically slim particularly when you consider that it is estimated that 80% of the population have an HPV virus of some sort and  25% have the HSV virus.  Many people will not know that they have these viruses.  I just find the comment that you have been doing this for "20 years and not caught anything" to be misleading, particularly to those who may be considering their first punt and trying to appreciate the risks they are taking.  In effect, I am as likely as you to have caught some sexually transmitted nasties that I am unaware of at present but have only slept with say 25 to 30 women.

Bear in mind that when they say they are testing you for "every possible disease, ailment or condition" they are probably talking about every possible "disease, ailment or condition" that relates to your fertility issues or prostate problems.  That is not the same as every sexually transmitted disease or infection.

But in any event, I'm not trying to worry you.  Given that you have not had any symptoms in the past 20 years from any STD/I's probably means that your immune system is pretty good and that you have a fairly healthy body in other respects.  You may never get any symptoms.  All I am saying is that the statement that "I've been doing this for 20 years and not caught anything" is misleading and suggests that punting is less risky than it actually is.

Offline Strawberry

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This has just raised something of vague relevance, quite a number of people do go around under the impression that their yearly health check with their GP, involving routine bloods would include testing for STIs too.

I'm not questioning King Nuts situation, have no wish too and I'm sure he knows what's what. I have however been told most routine, general health checks do not cover STIs. They must be specified by the patient, who might well then be referred to the GUM.

jf you give blood are you tested then?

Offline Strawberry

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jf you give blood are you tested then?

All donated blood is screened, it has to be. Just had a quick read on the National Blood Service website, on the STI front they test for HIV, Hep B, Hep C and Syphillis. They do notify you if you do test positive. By the way the National Blood service do say you should not give blood for 12 months if you have had sex with a prostitute, and never again if you have ever been paid for sex.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 12:01:54 AM by Strawberry »

Offline Fatbrian

my view on paid unprotected sex is as follows:

A girl who is genuinely offering bareback sex is nearly aways going to be a smack head and probably a street worker. Or and most probably 'as well'  is infected with AIDS/HIV or Hep C, nasty STD's.

However I think a lot of girls on AdultWork who offer Bareback do so to either generate hits on their profiles hoping to attract business and with no intention of actually providing a bareback service.

The other thing I think also happens is that some girls on AW don't understand what bareback means and think that sucking a bare cock (OWO or BBBJ) is involving barebacking and so think that is what bareback means.

Finally the other thing where I think bareback is being ticked on Aw profiles is when the girl is offering to make professional pornos, and so ticks the bareback option as in a professional film the sex would be bareback.

I personally am never going any where near a prozzie who is offering unprotected sexual services, my health is far to important!

Offline SteveNova

If the WG and the punter always use a condom for sex it is no greater risk  in terms of HIV to see that WG, even if she offers bareback.  Having said that I would feel less comfortable with someone who offered BB sex and would avoid them, as their general sexual health would be dubious. 
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 01:13:58 AM by SteveNova »

Truly no; I don't wish you to have caught any "nasties" but the likelihood of you having slept with "300 to 400" women and not caught anything is statistically slim particularly when you consider that it is estimated that 80% of the population have an HPV virus of some sort and  25% have the HSV virus.  Many people will not know that they have these viruses.  I just find the comment that you have been doing this for "20 years and not caught anything" to be misleading, particularly to those who may be considering their first punt and trying to appreciate the risks they are taking.  In effect, I am as likely as you to have caught some sexually transmitted nasties that I am unaware of at present but have only slept with say 25 to 30 women.

Bear in mind that when they say they are testing you for "every possible disease, ailment or condition" they are probably talking about every possible "disease, ailment or condition" that relates to your fertility issues or prostate problems.  That is not the same as every sexually transmitted disease or infection.

But in any event, I'm not trying to worry you.  Given that you have not had any symptoms in the past 20 years from any STD/I's probably means that your immune system is pretty good and that you have a fairly healthy body in other respects.  You may never get any symptoms.  All I am saying is that the statement that "I've been doing this for 20 years and not caught anything" is misleading and suggests that punting is less risky than it actually is.

What are you, a doctor or something? You clearly didn't read my post properly and have jumped to two false conclusions. For a start, I never said 'I've been doing this for twenty years'. I said there have been two short-ish bursts of unrestrained sexual activity in my life - one in the early 1980s and ther other in the mid 2000s - where condom use ended up being negligible. When not on one of these sexual benders, I've always been either celibate or in a committed relationship (other than occasional visits to WGs where full rig has always been worn).

As regards the testing, it seems you've not been through the fertility and prostate thing yourself. If you did, you'd know that they DO test you for STIs, including HIV, as a matter of course. Now because I've ended up being in and out of doctors' surgeries, clinics and hospitals a fair old bit in the last few years (and for good measure, I've also visited a GUM clinic and had the full monty in there) it's all been a bit of a blur and I couldn't give you a comprehensive list of every damn thing I've been tested for, but I'm pretty sure it was everything known to man.

Perhaps I do have good immunity. I know I rarely get ill. But that's sort of beside the point. The way I look at it is like this: take Elton John. Here's a guy who in his wild heyday, was far worse than me, or any of us. He shagged anything that moved - men and women - and took whatever marching powder, booze and Lord knows what else he could get his hands on. And in the 70s and up to the mid 80s, let's face it, people didn't use condoms. And look at him now.

Being gay and promiscious doesn't automatically equal HIV. Being hetero and promiscious doesn't automatically mean you're going to get diseased either. I am certainly not condoning condom-free sex, and I fully admit I've been irresponsible in the past and as I said in another post, I may well have dodged several bullets. I was just trying to shed a bit of light on a debate that usually never rises above panic- and fear-driven assertions and 'theories' that anyone who might dare have hetero sex without a condom is some sort of weirdo or pariah.

The fear that we're going to get some sort of disease from having sex with women is a very ancient one. I think Germaine Greer said something profound about this in her book 'The Whole Woman' but I can't find the quote for now. But it's a recurring theme in history, borne out in part by men's ambivalent attitude to prostitution. We totally accept and praise WGs who offer us condoms and despise those who don't. Why? Not for their sake, that's for sure. But for ours.






Offline Mellow

Everything is about risk management and mitigating risk.

I absolutely hate condoms, so to minimise my risk of contracting infections I choose bareback oral sex. Even BBO has it's risks but as the years creep me by, that risk albeit still there, becomes less influential in my decisions. By my own reckoning, when I reach the age of 75, I should be in the position of not caring too much for my well-being  :)

So how good are certificates ??

Offline Mellow

So how good are certificates ??
I knew of a few wgs that used cerificates from other non-wgs and penned out the names to make them look realistic. They would still kick up a fuss with the client if he dared to ask to see it.

Offline Strawberry

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Certificates are only a snapshot of that exact time the samples were taken, only way they are valid is if the bearer has not had sexual contact since the tests. Oh and HIV can take up to 3 months to be detected, so in that respect a certificate is only reliable as per 3 months before testing date.

Offline Jimmyredcab

I don't understand this constant preoccupation with bareback. It is the natural way to have sex.

Yes, of course it is natural with your wife or girlfriend.
It is not natural for a woman to have bareback  with dozens of men week in week out, sooner or later she will pick up an infection --------- that is a racing certainty.   :( :(

Offline Jimmyredcab

Certificates are only a snapshot of that exact time the samples were taken, only way they are valid is if the bearer has not had sexual contact since the tests. Oh and HIV can take up to 3 months to be detected, so in that respect a certificate is only reliable as per 3 months before testing date.

Certificates are totally worthless.
A woman could get a certificate at 11am, see a client at 1pm and pick up herpes or genital warts ------- or worse.  :(

Offline Mellow

Pubic lice (crabs) would hardly take a minute or two to hop across. Warning to all punters with beards, don't try to lick her out, you may be sorry  :scare:

Offline smiths

Certificates are totally worthless.
A woman could get a certificate at 11am, see a client at 1pm and pick up herpes or genital warts ------- or worse.  :(

100% correct, unless you have the WG under 24/7 survellience you cant know what she is really getting up to once she has left the GUM.

Offline James999

Shame this ones a barebacker  :(

https://www.adultwork.com/1079128

Ok face not much but what an ass  :P

Offline Daffodil

I have never done bb with a whore but have done on numerous occasions with non-whores. There's certainly a distinction between the two but it can be something of a grey area. The same arguments apply to bb whoever it's with, it is more a perception of risk.

There are plenty of risky activities people engage in without the same stigmata as those who fuck prossies bb. Somebody who breaks their back whilst rockclimbing will have all the sympathy in the world, somebody who contracts HIV from bb will be persecuted.

Offline Wayang

I have never done bb with a whore but have done on numerous occasions with non-whores. There's certainly a distinction between the two but it can be something of a grey area. The same arguments apply to bb whoever it's with, it is more a perception of risk.

You probably ran more risk with the non-WGs.  The spread of STIs today is not among WGs where, apart from crack addicts and the like, the risk of catching an STI is minimal, but among the free flowing young.
I bet none of the non-WGs you f*ck*d knew what GUM clinic was for.

As I said in an earlier post I searched for BB on AW and got a shock at the number of women offering it. I also noted that an increasing number of them are of Eastern European origin as is the lady James referred to in his post.  There were about half a dozen Eastern Europeans in Nottingham a few weeks ago, no feedback offering an £80/hr full service! After a week or two they decamped to Northampton, then to Southampton, then back to Leicester and are now in Croydon.

Sounds like a fairly organised set up to me transporting 4 or 5 girls to different towns. I took an interest in the group because they all appeared close together in the search and I had my eye on one lovely looking brunette who wasn't adverising BB at the time (she is now though!). I tried calling her but got no answer (probably a lucky escape).

I'm aware of the risks and the debate the subject provokes. Fact is guys want it (that's their choice) so ladies offer it. It's not a choice I'd make but each to his/her own!

Offline enzio

What are you, a doctor or something? You clearly didn't read my post properly and have jumped to two false conclusions. For a start, I never said 'I've been doing this for twenty years'. I said there have been two short-ish bursts of unrestrained sexual activity in my life - one in the early 1980s and ther other in the mid 2000s - where condom use ended up being negligible. When not on one of these sexual benders, I've always been either celibate or in a committed relationship (other than occasional visits to WGs where full rig has always been worn).

As regards the testing, it seems you've not been through the fertility and prostate thing yourself. If you did, you'd know that they DO test you for STIs, including HIV, as a matter of course. Now because I've ended up being in and out of doctors' surgeries, clinics and hospitals a fair old bit in the last few years (and for good measure, I've also visited a GUM clinic and had the full monty in there) it's all been a bit of a blur and I couldn't give you a comprehensive list of every damn thing I've been tested for, but I'm pretty sure it was everything known to man.

Perhaps I do have good immunity. I know I rarely get ill. But that's sort of beside the point. The way I look at it is like this: take Elton John. Here's a guy who in his wild heyday, was far worse than me, or any of us. He shagged anything that moved - men and women - and took whatever marching powder, booze and Lord knows what else he could get his hands on. And in the 70s and up to the mid 80s, let's face it, people didn't use condoms. And look at him now.

Being gay and promiscious doesn't automatically equal HIV. Being hetero and promiscious doesn't automatically mean you're going to get diseased either. I am certainly not condoning condom-free sex, and I fully admit I've been irresponsible in the past and as I said in another post, I may well have dodged several bullets. I was just trying to shed a bit of light on a debate that usually never rises above panic- and fear-driven assertions and 'theories' that anyone who might dare have hetero sex without a condom is some sort of weirdo or pariah.

The fear that we're going to get some sort of disease from having sex with women is a very ancient one. I think Germaine Greer said something profound about this in her book 'The Whole Woman' but I can't find the quote for now. But it's a recurring theme in history, borne out in part by men's ambivalent attitude to prostitution. We totally accept and praise WGs who offer us condoms and despise those who don't. Why? Not for their sake, that's for sure. But for ours.

What you actually said was:

"I've spent several periods in my life having random, casual, and condom-free sex with many different women (non-WGs), and the last time was as recently as 2002-4 in my internet dating phase. And I can tell you, I've never caught a damn thing. Not once. Not ever. So, was I lucky?"

"Several" being more than two; so to be fair both of us read your original post incorrectly.

Yes they probably do test you for STI's and D's but only the ones that are likely to affect your fertility or prostate.  That's not every STD or I that exists just as the GUM don't test you for every STD/I.  I, therefore, doubt its everything known to man.

As for Elton John; how do you know what he has got or has not got?  Just because he may not have HIV (why are people so obsessed with HIV as though it is the only STI??? - and how do you know Elton John doesn't have it?) does not mean that he has not caught other STI/D's.  He may have STD/I's and not know about the same.  That is the point I am trying to make.
 
So far as I am concerned having some of these STD/I's is not so bad for you to take it so personally.  We all carry hundreds of bacteria/ virus's on us or in our body which have nothing to do with us having sex with anybody.  We catch them by touching other people/ objects other people have touched or even the air we breathe.  Does that make you weird or some sort of Pariah?  A wart can grow on your finger after you have shook hands with someone who has a wart on their finger.  Does that mean you would never shake hands with anyone?  STD/I's are only passed to us when we have sex with someone.  The number of STD's and the risk of contracting STI's increases significantly when you have unprotected sex.  Holding up people who may not have contracted many or significant STD/I's from having unprotected sex to show that unprotected sex is not risky is like saying "my great aunt smoked her whole life until she was 90, therefore, smoking is not that bad"; you are talking about the minor exceptions and not the reality.

I accept that you are as likely (actually probably more likely)  to catch an STD/ I if you sleep with people who's sexual history you are not sure about as much as if you sleep with a prostitute.  What I find misleading is to say that you have slept with numerous people who's sexual history you are not sure of and you know for sure that you have not caught anything.  That's not slagging of heterosexuality or promiscuity in any way.

And no ... I am not a doctor so do not take anything I say as gospel ... check it yourself if you want to be sure.  However, I like to think to myself that I have properly explored the risks of punting when embarking on a punt.  I am happy to be enlightened where I may be wrong.


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