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Author Topic: What would you do if you found out your escort was underage?  (Read 8124 times)

Online James999

The money was generated by someone else committing a crime, not her herself and you could claim she is being punished again by having the cash confiscated.

I think we all agree the Child herself did not commit a crime, however she was clearly surrounded by crimes be they from her clients (perhaps unknowingly) her Pimp (agency) and possibly her parent/s and it was as a result of these crimes that the money was in the house, perhaps it was her parents who were keeping the money?

No one knows all we do know is that the money was seized under the POCA and that the girl was not charged with any offence, she appears to be a victim, the article does make reference to child sex slaves brought to the UK so perhaps the picture is bigger than reported?

Offline Daffodil

True, although the statutory offence doesn't apply if she is under 13  - (section 47(1)(c)(ii) Sexual Offences Act 2003).

This 15 year old escort had her money confiscated under POCA even though she was the victim and wasn't committing an illegal act:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1155502/Suspicious-teacher-exposes-double-life-girl-15-earning-100-000-year-upmarket-prostitute.html

Who's buying this 'suspicious teacher's' story? My moneys on him booking through the agency only to get the biggest shock of his life when his 15 year old pupil knocked on the door.  :D

I guess if you have booked through an agency you have some defence if you did punt with someone under 18. I once pulled a girl on a night out whom my mates, the next day, suggested could be underage. I was reassured by the thought, if indeed she was, that she had duped the club bouncers as well. You would hope that agencies would have some means of verifying age.

Offline Strawberry

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Belief that she is 18 is a reasonable defence when paying for sex with a 16 or 17 year old. Anyone care to test this?

speaking only for myself i would not wish to see anyone under 25. I understand that that young girls are emotionally mature and capable of making the decision to become an escort but i prefer a girl that has had alot more life experience. and is more confident with her decisions.

at 18 i thought i knew it all, now i realise im still learning at 31. I saw my first escort 17. it was a great half hour.

Offline Geetaw1

True, although the statutory offence doesn't apply if she is under 13  - (section 47(1)(c)(ii) Sexual Offences Act 2003).

This 15 year old escort had her money confiscated under POCA even though she was the victim and wasn't committing an illegal act:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1155502/Suspicious-teacher-exposes-double-life-girl-15-earning-100-000-year-upmarket-prostitute.html

One of them must have been relevant. Just because the report doesn't mention it doesn't mean that none of them applied. It would be a very easy appeal to have won, if a Magistrates' Courts acted ultra vires in such an obvious way.

Online Silverado

One of them must have been relevant. Just because the report doesn't mention it doesn't mean that none of them applied. It would be a very easy appeal to have won, if a Magistrates' Courts acted ultra vires in such an obvious way.

None of the grounds in section 6 applied. I've followed the case quite closely. The Magistrates didn't act ultra vires because they have the power to make such an order under section 97 SOCPA 2005.

As far as I can ascertain nobody contested the order at court so the Magistrates made the order as requested by the Assets Recovery Agency. If nobody contested the point at the original hearing then it's extremely unlikely that they would appeal the  order at a later date.

Lay Magistrates have very little legal knowledge. Unless there's somebody at court telling them that they don't have grounds to make the order and arguing the point, then they'll just grant the order. I've seen it far too many times in court. As I said before....a very unjust decision, but if there' s nobody in court to argue the point the decision was probably a foregone conclusion.



Offline Geetaw1

So what's the argument? The Magistrates acted accordingly, then, even if the earnings were not treated as proceeds of crime.

Online Silverado

So what's the argument? The Magistrates acted accordingly, then, even if the earnings were not treated as proceeds of crime.

As I said, they didn't act ultra vires but there were no legal grounds for them to make the confiscation order. Because there was nobody at court to argue the point, they rubber stamped the order at a "brief hearing". Not ultra vires but nevertheless a bad decision.

Offline Strawberry

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The point here is that POCA was a law that was intended to punish criminals by seizing their ill-gotten gains. In reality it is very easy to misuse. A lot of the general public genuinely believe that the police are only confiscating assets where a crime has been proven. Quite often the assets are frozen months before charges have been brought, or investigated. One or two in which charges are not brought for years - yet the police can sit on the money indefinitely, despite appeals to the contrary.

Basically it's a law which is open to abuse by the authorities and means nothing, but the general public think it is only being used where crimes have been proven.

Silverado's post indicates that the Asset Recovery Agency requested the order, and the magistrates didn't understand the law. No-one contested - I believe the child was in care and the parents possibly were concentrating on sorting their family problems, rather than fighting for the cash that 'punters' had paid to have sex with their underage daughter. Would hardly have looked good now would it!

Offline Geetaw1

The point here is that POCA was a law that was intended to punish criminals by seizing their ill-gotten gains. In reality it is very easy to misuse. A lot of the general public genuinely believe that the police are only confiscating assets where a crime has been proven. Quite often the assets are frozen months before charges have been brought, or investigated. One or two in which charges are not brought for years - yet the police can sit on the money indefinitely, despite appeals to the contrary.

Basically it's a law which is open to abuse by the authorities and means nothing, but the general public think it is only being used where crimes have been proven.

Silverado's post indicates that the Asset Recovery Agency requested the order, and the magistrates didn't understand the law. No-one contested - I believe the child was in care and the parents possibly were concentrating on sorting their family problems, rather than fighting for the cash that 'punters' had paid to have sex with their underage daughter. Would hardly have looked good now would it!

Hmm...Having read that, I think you are right. But if a 15 year old girl was allowed to keep whore earnings, that wouldn't have looked good either.

BUT, I do tentatively agree.

Silverado: what is the text of the SI issued under s97?

Offline Cactus

There have been occassions where I was unsure after meeting the girl so have asked to see ID.  Thankfully when I have requested this they have generally complied, if they hadn't then I would have walked.

Offline ladyofthemansion

There have been occassions where I was unsure after meeting the girl so have asked to see ID.  Thankfully when I have requested this they have generally complied, if they hadn't then I would have walked.

I think the only ID any good is a passport or full driving licence. Other IDs are easy to fake.

Albert

I would quit booking escorts if that was the case.

Offline Cactus

I think the only ID any good is a passport or full driving licence. Other IDs are easy to fake.

Oh Oh....one was a provisional, but they are plastic now like a full driving license so it would be just as easy to fake that as a full one surely?

Offline ladyofthemansion

Oh Oh....one was a provisional, but they are plastic now like a full driving license so it would be just as easy to fake that as a full one surely?

I think a provisional ok. You still need a passport to get one.

Offline TeenKylie

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No it's not
Whatttttt???? That totally contridics everything you said to me!

Offline TeenKylie

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Belief that she is 18 is a reasonable defence when paying for sex with a 16 or 17 year old. Anyone care to test this?
oh my god. After all the shit I got I then find this post !

Offline TeenKylie

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I think we all agree the Child herself did not commit a crime, however she was clearly surrounded by crimes be they from her clients (perhaps unknowingly) her Pimp (agency) and possibly her parent/s and it was as a result of these crimes that the money was in the house, perhaps it was her parents who were keeping the money?

No one knows all we do know is that the money was seized under the POCA and that the girl was not charged with any offence, she appears to be a victim, the article does make reference to child sex slaves brought to the UK so perhaps the picture is bigger than reported?
You seriously have double standards. Un fucking believable!

Online James999

You seriously have double standards. Un fucking believable!

Care to explain?

Offline jackdaw

Isn't at least first part of answer to original question a "no brainer"?

You leave immediately. And report to AW.

Beyond that? You'd have to, at least think, about anonymously contacting police. Obviously, exact circumstances would then come into play. (e.g. If a couple of days shy of 18, apparently doing it of her own free will... then personally I wouldn't bother.)

Offline TeenKylie

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Care to explain?
You know exactly what I'm talking about. After all the shit you gave me for escorting a few week before my 18 birthday, the lectures you gave me and then I read this and your actually defending the WG In a way! You didn't even know your self it was illegal and you were telling me I should have done my homework! Lmfao!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 09:36:01 PM by TeenKylie »

Online James999

You know exactly what I'm talking about. After all the shit you gave me for escorting a few week before my 18 birthday, the lectures you gave me and then I read this and your actually defending the WG In a way!

Im not defending anyone, just stating the facts.

As for where you see an inconsistency then please feel free to post links to the comments that hilight this, it is not possible for me to guess what you think is wrong, that's why I asked.

Offline TeenKylie

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You know exactly what I'm talking about. After all the shit you gave me for escorting a few week before my 18 birthday, the lectures you gave me and then I read this and your actually defending the WG In a way! You didn't even know your self it was illegal and you were telling me I should have done my homework! Lmfao!
I really can't be fucked. It's not going to make a difference. You know it a total contradiction.

Online James999

I really can't be fucked. It's not going to make a difference. You know it a total contradiction.

Well you seem to think there is a contradiction, but despite being asked twice to point out what you are talking about you have not, so expecting me to guess what your on about is well  :dash:

As for you can't be fucked, the word on the street is because you don't answer your fucking phone, if you picked up the calls you may get fucked  :scare:


Offline TeenKylie

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Well you seem to think there is a contradiction, but despite being asked twice to point out what you are talking about you have not, so expecting me to guess what your on about is well  :dash:

As for you can't be fucked, the word on the street is because you don't answer your fucking phone, if you picked up the calls you may get fucked  :scare:
Okay well when I get on a pc I will quote the things that you said of they are still there.
Trying to turn it on me now are we when you know I've caught you out? Typical. Oh and some people have a life and real friends so can't allwayd get to there work phone but regardless of what anyone says if I'm left a vm then I will return the call if its a decent time.


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