WG's posting to defend themselves.

[Roland D Hay]

I have noticed a distinct increase in WG's signing up and posting to defend themselves on threads relating to profiles or services. Just picked up another one where Summerleahknights posted a load of shit about how 'honest' her profile is. Clearly WG's are now becoming very aware of the impact a negative review on UKP can have on their pocket. The level of fluffiness in response to those initial sign ups does surprise me though. I'm all for WG input on this site but seriously, response to negative reviews should be greeted with a healthy degree of scepticism; I'm not suggesting a rude response is appropriate but neither should they be given a forum to spout shit IMHO.

[DRJ]

Don't see why a person can't defend themselves especially since it can have a negative effect on their job, obviously within reason not saying someone should come in guns blazing and insults flying.

[Gigabyte]

I for one have taken girls off my hotlist because of reviews here despite what appears to be good AW feedback. Conversely I have seen girls that have been recommended on here solely because of that recommendation. It therefore does not surprise me if WG's do try and defend themselves, and yet there are better ways. Look at successful business's they seek feedback and try and improve. They would be better off taking that approach, and if its the "punter" spouting rubbish on a review then the members on here will tend to find them out without to much problem.   

[Roland D Hay]

Don't see why a person can't defend themselves especially since it can have effect their number of potential clients, obviously within reason not saying someone should come in guns blazing and insults flying.

Neither do I, but we tend not to see a constructive or reasonable defence. If we were given that then fine but as I said, they just tend to spout shit.

[finn5555]

Neither do I, but we tend not to see a constructive or reasonable defence. If we were given that then fine but as I said, they just tend to spout shit.

The main issue with pro$$ies is their inability to tell the truth. The problem they have is if you wish to be a good liar you need a good memory and the intelligence to carry the bullshit off 

Sadly these are traits your average pro$$ie doesn't have 

[Kram]

Half they time they don't do themselves any favours

Come in start slagging off members left and right make themselves like like the fruitcake they really are and do more damage to their rep than any negative review will ever do

One miss delta White is a case in point

[vorian]

Neither do I, but we tend not to see a constructive or reasonable defence. If we were given that then fine but as I said, they just tend to spout shit.

Agreed I have seen three today, good to know the impact UKP is having,  often they make total fools of themselves and are quite correctly challenged.  When they rant it shows them up far worse than a negative review. Some even go on the attack when the review is positive. In some ways it is a good sign as not only are the bad unprofessional prossies shown up but the good ones stand out even more.

[smiths]

I have noticed a distinct increase in WG's signing up and posting to defend themselves on threads relating to profiles or services. Just picked up another one where Summerleahknights posted a load of shit about how 'honest' her profile is. Clearly WG's are now becoming very aware of the impact a negative review on UKP can have on their pocket. The level of fluffiness in response to those initial sign ups does surprise me though. I'm all for WG input on this site but seriously, response to negative reviews should be greeted with a healthy degree of scepticism; I'm not suggesting a rude response is appropriate but neither should they be given a forum to spout shit IMHO.

I have noticed it as well, and sometimes posters pretending to be punters defending SPs that have had bad reviews and/or feedback.

IMO its up to them if they wish to join and post, punters will quickly decide whether what they post seems credible or not. If smart being polite is the best way to get a point across in my view, clearly not all are smart though and i assume some in anger are lashing out, far better to calm down before posting as i see it. 

A function of this forum is to praise the good and castigate the bad SP, that upsets and/or annoys some SPs who would much prefer the pre-net days of no scrutiny. Thing is its moved on and the forum isnt going anywhere, deal with the reality would be my advice. Apart from those that are malicious liars if a SP offers good service they will get good feedback, or at least not bad feedback. So the lesson for the bad to learn is they will get outed as bad SPs sooner or later, hopefully sooner. There is no hiding place, embrace that fact and offer good service. When i punt i ALWAYS have the agreed money, am clean and on time so i keep to my end of the deal, all i ask is the SP keeps to their end. I dont think thats much to ask and those that instead decide to lie or worse deserve to be castigated on here.

[hockogrockle]

I suppose if you are offering "personal services" it is inevitable you will take criticism personally. "The woman doesn't know how to fuck" is quite a bit more wounding than "she isn't any good at parking her car". Given that the typical WG is not of the highest intellect, or trained in logical thinking,  a carefully-nuanced rejoinder is unlikely to be forthcoming.
For what it is worth, my advice to any WG thinking of posting a rebuttal would be to save it as a draft, read it again the following morning, take all the venom out, and only then post it. The comments will carry much more weight if they seem reasonable.

[Sailormack]

Don't see why a person can't defend themselves especially since it can have a negative effect on their job, obviously within reason not saying someone should come in guns blazing and insults flying.

They can defend themselves on SAAFE.

Then everyone's happy

[vorian]

They can defend themselves on SAAFE.

Then everyone's happy

Actually the funny thing is they can't, one of the rules on SAAFE is they are not allowed to mention poor reviews or even mention UKP by name.  The "Elites" running that site are very afraid of reviews and hence would rather ignore them. UKP actually allows the prossies more freedom of expression than their own site. A punter is not allowed to join SAAFE but a WG can join UKP.

[James999]

If they didn't lie or give a crap service they won't get bad reviews 

The site is designed for punters, not for pro$$ies to spout shit and surpress the truth, if you want that stick to pro$$ienet 

[Sailormack]

Actually the funny thing is they can't, one of the rules on SAAFE is they are not allowed to mention poor reviews or even mention UKP by name.  The "Elites" running that site are very afraid of reviews and hence would rather ignore them. UKP actually allows the prossies more freedom of expression than their own site. A punter is not allowed to join SAAFE but a WG can join UKP.

Then the problem is with SAAFE, not UKP

[Roland D Hay]

The woman doesn't know how to fuck" is quite a bit more wounding than "she isn't any good at parking her car".

An excellent and amusing point 

[Sailormack]

An excellent and amusing point 

Path of least resistance 

[vorian]

Then the problem is with SAAFE, not UKP

Totally agree with you.  SAAFE is a complete joke for many reasons.

[James999]

Totally agree with you.  SAAFE is a complete joke for many reasons.

Dorian, no offence and all that shit, but could you swear a bit in your posts 

Perhaps Safe's a fucking joke or something like that   :timeout

[Timo]

They can defend themselves on SAAFE.

Then everyone's happy

Agree, and their white knights and fluffy fans can fuck off with them!

[timmyshorny]

Is Saafe their version of Ukpunting then? If so shall we invade them   

[Curious6705]

For what it is worth, my advice to any WG thinking of posting a rebuttal would be to save it as a draft, read it again the following morning, take all the venom out, and only then post it. The comments will carry much more weight if they seem reasonable.

Good advice. IMO most of us have already learned this lesson from using email or just from posting on a forum like this. Many WGs are quite young, and they have time to improve their communication skills - just one more thing they need to learn IMO.

[vorian]

Dorian, no offence and all that shit, but could you swear a bit in your posts 

Perhaps Safe's a fucking joke or something like that   :timeout

No offence taken at all James, I am who I am. I do occasionally swear but find the use of curse words more effective in communication when they are rationed for maximum impact.

[James999]

Is Saafe their version of Ukpunting then? If so shall we invade them   

What you mean an influx of fake pro$$ies ?

[timmyshorny]

Sorry I thought safe might be like here where they can leave reviews on clients.... Just googled it... not what I though so ignore last comment!

[Toshiba]

The poor ones get what they deserve

End of

And they come on here, usually spouting bs, offer a good service and you will be fine, take the piss and you wont make money

Its not fooking rocket science

[mattylondon]

Neither do I, but we tend not to see a constructive or reasonable defence. If we were given that then fine but as I said, they just tend to spout shit.

Spot on. I also think there's a distinct inability to simply admit that they delivered a crap service on the day.

The increase in responses is also a tacit admission of the growing influence of UKP. Many more options and lower rates inevitably leads to a greater competition for market share. A negative review can have a direct impact on the prossie's pocket. A poor review can no longer be brushed aside and ignored. In the past, it could. I also suspect that in many cases, punters tip women off about such reviews.

[Sailormack]

Matty's back 

[DaveMugabe]

Dorian, no offence and all that shit, but could you swear a bit in your posts 

Perhaps Safe's a fucking joke or something like that   :timeout

Who the fuck is Dorian???

Back to topic, I think the more successful this forum is, the more postings will affect their business and the more they will want to make fake/angry posts.

I would actually like to see the prossie perspective on reviews, but as I see it they really only have two options if they receive lots of negative reviews:

1. explain, apologise, make amends and genuinely learn from it and provide better service
2.leave the business as they are not suited to this type of work

Unfortunately, we had a situation where Stacey from Amour Escorts in the North East was making up fake complaints just to be seen to be apologising and making amends.  Now I think she does run a reasonable outfit, but what she was doing was devious and calculated.  She had no need to do this but she was probably trying to paint a picture of putting service as a main priority.  Unfortunately, her method demostrates that she thinks punters are stupid and it has backfired on her.

Hopefully she has learned and she focuses on genuine customer service instead of playing the propaganda game.

The problem now is whenever a prossie/pimp posts to apologise and explain, some, including myself, will be sceptical. Unfortunate but thats the way it is

[mattylondon]

There is no hiding place, embrace that fact and offer good service.

If a negative review offends, who cares? Better to be honest, take on board the criticism or quite frankly, piss off! Punting is not a cheap activity. This is not a charity. This is business. Genuine SPs have nothing to fear.

On the other hand, a punter who lies in a review, directly effecting a genuine prossie's business is a piece of shit, in my opinion, who will be flushed out soon enough. Forcing out genuine prossies is directly against the interests of punters too, in my opinion.

[Roland D Hay]

Forcing out genuine prossies is directly against the interests of punters too, in my opinion.

Agreed

[punk]

If a negative review offends, who cares? Better to be honest, take on board the criticism or quite frankly, piss off! Punting is not a cheap activity. This is not a charity. This is business. Genuine SPs have nothing to fear.

On the other hand, a punter who lies in a review, directly effecting a genuine prossie's business is a piece of shit, in my opinion, who will be flushed out soon enough. Forcing out genuine prossies is directly against the interests of punters too, in my opinion.

thats the problem most prossies dont give a fuck until it hits them in the pocket,and even than its the customers that are to blame,most are here to make ££££ off the english as i was told a few yrs back.

[Roland D Hay]

I also suspect that in many cases, punters tip women off about such reviews.

Yes and it's not really difficult to work out out who these white knights are is it. The same ones who come on here defending all the shite they come out with. What do these white knights think they get from the deal. Do they think they'll get respect or special favours from the girl? The reality is that the girls inevitably see them as even bigger mugs than the rest of us. I'm sick of reading comments that someone or another is honoured or privileged that a particular girl has graced this site with her presence.

[overhead]

Totally agree with you.  SAAFE is a complete joke for many reasons.

I don't know how you can say that. It has a purpose just the same as UKP has. Just because it doesn't serve you doesn't mean it's a joke.

I think there is a huge gap in understanding. Most prossies don't have much concept of what it's like to be a punter, and many of them don't care either. But by the same token I don't think many punters appreciate some of the things they have to endure either. I've being doing this on and off for a while now, and there's always something unexpected around the corner. Yes they get paid handsomely for it, but there's no question in my mind that they are a lot more vulnerable than we are. Some of the threads on saafe make quite sobering reading, especially the world championship one. There are some seriously disturbed people out there. The ones that are prossies get found out and don't last too long, but the rogue punters do, and saafe helps defeat them. Invading saafe would not be a clever thing to do. Leave them alone. I think it's much better to battle with them on this forum, because the moderators here have the experience and control needed. No one is perfect and some of the banning seems a bit hasty sometimes, but I bet we don't get anything like the full picture. Just like you can never fully understand what goes on in WG's bedrooms - and their heads.

[Roland D Hay]

Invading saafe would not be a clever thing to do. Leave them alone.

You actually took that comment seriously?

[mattylondon]

What do these white knights think they get from the deal. Do they think they'll get respect or special favours from the girl?

It's an interesting line of discussion, isn't it? I think the reasons are complex. As you've suggested, perhaps they feel that this will garner them extra time, additional services or even a discount? Fluffys tend to be the worst kind of boundary pushers, in my opinion. Another line of thought is that perhaps they harbor a degree of guilt or self loathing, so they attempt to seek affirmation or respect from the prossie. This may especially apply if they either know or suspect the prossie is critical of punters or men in general. Therefore, they to disassociate themselves from this perception, by showing that they're different. That they're a 'nice guy'. I think it's all for nothing anyway, as the prossies primary concern will be ££££, whatever they say. 

[Roland D Hay]

It's an interesting line of discussion, isn't it? I think the reasons are complex. As you've suggested, perhaps they feel that this will garner them extra time, additional services or even a discount? Fluffys tend to be the worst kind of boundary pushers, in my opinion. Another line of thought is that perhaps they harbor a degree of guilt or self loathing, so they attempt to seek affirmation or respect from the prossie. This may especially apply if they either know or suspect the prossie is critical of punters or men in general. Therefore, they to disassociate themselves from this perception, by showing that they're different. That they're a 'nice guy'. I think it's all for nothing anyway, as the prossies primary concern will be ££££, whatever they say. 

Matty, I didn't even know you'd been gone but I'm glad you're back 

[overhead]

You actually took that comment seriously?

It sounded like you meant it.

A few months ago I visited a WG who had not long before been attacked and robbed. She was a bag of nerves but had to keep on working to survive in her situation. She told me what happened to her and that was a sobering experience I can tell you, just listening to it. Reading that comment brought it all back.

Sorry, if I over reacted. Some things are quite serious in this business though.

[Roland D Hay]

It sounded like you meant it.

A few months ago I visited a WG who had not long before been attacked and robbed. She was a bag of nerves but had to keep on working to survive in her situation. She told me what happened to her and that was a sobering experience I can tell you, just listening to it. Reading that comment brought it all back.

Sorry, if I over reacted. Some things are quite serious in this business though.

It wasn't my post but I'd be surprised if anyone took the comment seriously.

Despite what saafe might have you believe there are very few of us that are misogynists and I like to believe that the vast majority of us are reasonable people. No one here advocates abuse of working girls and we're all very aware of the risky environment they operate in but that environment can be equally risky for punters. Keeping punters safe is the purpose of this site and similarly saafe's purpose is to keep the girls safe. Yes bad things occasionally happen but I am consistently told by WG's that the men they meet through punting are generally nicer to them than the guys they have met in their personal lives. There is an alternative reality.

[Roland D Hay]

It's an interesting line of discussion, isn't it? I think the reasons are complex. As you've suggested, perhaps they feel that this will garner them extra time, additional services or even a discount? Fluffys tend to be the worst kind of boundary pushers, in my opinion. Another line of thought is that perhaps they harbor a degree of guilt or self loathing, so they attempt to seek affirmation or respect from the prossie. This may especially apply if they either know or suspect the prossie is critical of punters or men in general. Therefore, they to disassociate themselves from this perception, by showing that they're different. That they're a 'nice guy'. I think it's all for nothing anyway, as the prossies primary concern will be ££££, whatever they say. 

Any self confessed fluffies care to comment?

[Mr Farkyhars]

Keeping punters safe is the purpose of this site

Exactly - which is why I fully understand when a SP comes on here with handbag flying after she sees the second post on a 'seeking information on' thread is a boring, pointless review of her profile pic, to the effect of "she's a fat minger.. wouldn't touch her with yours."

[vorian]

It's an interesting line of discussion, isn't it? I think the reasons are complex. As you've suggested, perhaps they feel that this will garner them extra time, additional services or even a discount? Fluffys tend to be the worst kind of boundary pushers, in my opinion. Another line of thought is that perhaps they harbor a degree of guilt or self loathing, so they attempt to seek affirmation or respect from the prossie. This may especially apply if they either know or suspect the prossie is critical of punters or men in general. Therefore, they to disassociate themselves from this perception, by showing that they're different. That they're a 'nice guy'. I think it's all for nothing anyway, as the prossies primary concern will be ££££, whatever they say. 

Excellent post.

[Jimmyredcab]

Most pro$$ies are not very gifted in the brain department.   

When they come on here with all guns blazing they just make matters worse.

They would do far better to say they are sorry their service wasn't up to expectations and they will take the comments on board.

That is what hotel managers do on Trip Advisor.   

[vorian]

I don't know how you can say that. It has a purpose just the same as UKP has. Just because it doesn't serve you doesn't mean it's a joke.

I think there is a huge gap in understanding. Most prossies don't have much concept of what it's like to be a punter, and many of them don't care either. But by the same token I don't think many punters appreciate some of the things they have to endure either. I've being doing this on and off for a while now, and there's always something unexpected around the corner. Yes they get paid handsomely for it, but there's no question in my mind that they are a lot more vulnerable than we are. Some of the threads on saafe make quite sobering reading, especially the world championship one. There are some seriously disturbed people out there. The ones that are prossies get found out and don't last too long, but the rogue punters do, and saafe helps defeat them. Invading saafe would not be a clever thing to do. Leave them alone. I think it's much better to battle with them on this forum, because the moderators here have the experience and control needed. No one is perfect and some of the banning seems a bit hasty sometimes, but I bet we don't get anything like the full picture. Just like you can never fully understand what goes on in WG's bedrooms - and their heads.

I have read large chunks of SAAFE and continue to do so I believe in the tactics of knowing your enemy.  The issues I have with SAAFE is not based around its educational or practical advice which seems comprehensive.  However the "Elite" leadership of SAAFE basically give bad advice regarding the business aspect of prostitution,  that is unforgivable to me.

I don't have any concerns regarding a WG situation, anymore than I care about Tescos,  all I care about is getting the service I require at the price I am willing to pay. I am not the morale police nor am I here to pass judgements or protect anyone. I want professional and customer service orientated WG.

However I wish to punt and to have good punts that is imho facilitated by sharing information on this site good and bad.

Is it easy being a prossie I have no real idea as I am not one.  I would hazard sometimes yes,  sometimes no. SAAFE is not like UKP punters are the customers we are not in competition with each other unlike the members of SAAFE. Simply they do not respect their own members enough to give good advice in relation to running a good business.

[vorian]

Most pro$$ies are not very gifted in the brain department.   

When they come on here with all guns blazing they just make matters worse.

They would do far better to say they are sorry their service wasn't up to expectations and they will take the comments on board.

That is what hotel managers do on Trip Advisor.   

Totally agree the good ones would not take it personally but as a valuable tool that helps them improve the service they offer.  Saying that the good ones would know the importance of effort and good customer service and as such are unlikely to get a bad review.

[overhead]

I don't have any concerns regarding a WG situation, anymore than I care about Tescos,  all I care about is getting the service I require at the price I am willing to pay. I am not the morale police nor am I here to pass judgements or protect anyone. I want professional and customer service orientated WG.

I take it from what you are saying that you did mean what you said in that comment earlier, not as portrayed by Roland?

I get where your coming from, but I think there is a world of difference between dealing with a hard nosed organisation such as Tescos as a pure and simple consumer, and a more personal supplier/customer relationship such as a doctor, dentist, or prostitute.

I'm sure that if I go to my dentist shouting the odds about the service I have been getting, I can't expect a less painful experience than if I try to treat them like a human being. Same goes for doctors. The system these days is all geared towards getting patients out of the door as quick as possible, and developing a good working relationship with them is essential to getting the best out of the service they provide. In that sense I see prostitutes as more or less the ultimate example of this, because the attitude you take with them makes just about the biggest difference in the treatment you receive that you could find anywhere. I'm sure fucking a prostitute who utterly resents you as a person would be like raping them, and I could never go down that road personally. Better to treat them as you would the carer who you will need to look after you when you become bedridden and incontinent. In a sense they are the ultimate carers, and as such you have to avoid the scumbags amongst them. You can learn so much from forums like saafe and UKP. Nothing is perfect, but I think it's all pretty good as it is. Just needs a bit of fine tuning that's all.

SAAFE is not like UKP punters are the customers we are not in competition with each other unlike the members of SAAFE. Simply they do not respect their own members enough to give good advice in relation to running a good business.

I disagree with that. I think we are in competition with each other in a sense. Being a good punter and welcome is hugely different to being one who is hated, and I certainly strive to be someone a WG likes engaging with, and certainly better than the average. It's hard work sometimes, but it can be worth it. That competition aspect makes you better, and as a result you end up with an improved life experience.

[Mr Farkyhars]

punters are the customers we are not in competition with each other

Heh. What about when one of us would prefer not to divulge to this board the details of a newly-discovered gem?

[Roland D Hay]

Most pro$$ies are not very gifted in the brain department.   

When they come on here with all guns blazing they just make matters worse.

They would do far better to say they are sorry their service wasn't up to expectations and they will take the comments on board.

That is what hotel managers do on Trip Advisor.   

Perhaps WG's need a new site to help them understand customer care, maybe strip advisor?

[starman]

For me, there are 3 things that need to be 100% accurate on an escort's profile..... A genuine photo, the girl's real age and her country of origin.  Her likes list should also be accurate, but if on the day she doesn't feel up to providing certain services, e.g. No French kissing because the punter has foul breath, then that remains at her discretion.

[OldAdmin]

I've recently started deleting posts by prossies when they come in guns-blazing / attack the integrity of the punter / make serious accusations against the punter, etc.

A rebuttal / ability-to-respond for prossies is not a right on UKP. It is a privilege. And I get to decide what to allow, with no recourse or appeals procedure.

This also extends to posts from new members (which could be prossie masquerading as a punter) and existing members who may be 'fans' of the prossie.

As the top says - 'Putting the punter first.' I won't be having bad prossies damage the reputation of a punter or fool others into thinking the negative review is untrue.

[dandaley]

A punter is not allowed to join SAAFE but a WG can join UKP.

and here lies the problem if your going to allow wgs to join and post on here surely your going to get them defending themselves its human nature, imagine if it was tother way around and we could post on saafe with our real punter names and the wgs could say we were arseholes with bad teeth, fat, smelly etc, wouldn't you defend yourself ? course you would.

can't see this will ever change unless wgs are stopped from joining here as all that happens is what we have seen with lots of crap flying around and ban after ban.

pointless imo why not keep ukp just for punters, problem solved ?

[overhead]

pointless imo why not keep ukp just for punters, problem solved ?

Because there are WG's who post on here who provide an interesting and balanced perspective, and have enough business that they can contain themselves and remember where they are, and have done for a long time. Dani, ParisB etc.

Also there are plenty of punters that have been banned for abuse and so forth.

Saafe serves a slightly different purpose, and I can't see how there's any place for punters on there.