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Author Topic: Condoms, Bareback, OWO and STD Risks  (Read 17681 times)

KingCharming

  • Guest
Curious to hear everyone's thoughts and practices regarding how they protect themselves when punting.

I've had at least two occasions in my punting career where the condom has split, so that in effect, although briefly and without either of our knowledge or intent, I've effectively been bareback with a WG. Both times I've been to the GUM clinic straight afterwards, avoided any sexual contact in the interim, and followed this up with another GUM visit in 3 months, and thankfully been found clear every time.

The experience has however, scared the shit out of me. Once can be a fluke, twice and it's a trend. It's difficult to find any statistics on transmission rates for STIs under various circumstances, so it's hard to evaluate the real risk here.

The majority of us would agree, even in the absence of any solid figures, that bareback is extremely risky, based on common sense alone. I've been thinking lately though, that if a condom breaks during sex with a WG, in effect what happens is you have basically gone bareback, albeit briefly (unless you were able to pull out right before the condom broke via some sort of psychic intuition, there would have to have been some contact between genitals). What does the chance of a condom breaking, plus the chance of catching something from that exposure, translate into regarding your risks of an STI from protected sex with a WG? I.e. how risky is protected sex with a WG, given that a condom can break?
I'd imagine it's nowhere near as high as straight bareback sex for obvious reasons, but what is the risk? Is it negligible? Enough to warrant avoiding even protected sex on punts? I'm interested to see what other members feel about this, and to what extent they consider this a risk.

I'd like to just clarify for anyone not clear, in no way am I advocating bareback, or saying it's on a par in terms of risk with protected sex. What I'm saying is that since bareback is extremely risky, and protected sex has a risk of an element of bareback (due to potential condom breakages), how risky is protected sex?

Furthermore, how does OWO fit into this? The general consensus seems to be that bareback is horrendously risky, but people seem mostly happy to do OWO. Again, it's very difficult to find any set figures, so in the absence of that I'm curious to hear people's thoughts and precautions regarding their risks with OWO.

How many of you have had a condom break with a WG? How many of you give or receive OWO? How do you consider the various risks involved in punting and what precautions do you take? Do you have any figures to back these up or what do you base it on?

dilettante

  • Guest
I think that in a nutshell you stand a much higher chance of getting whatever nasties are going around like gonorrhoea, HPV, herpes etc, doing bb - these can be cured.

Also HIV of course - but the incidence here is still very very low and you're far more likely to be killed oin your daily commute to work than pick up HIV via bb sex.

Offline smiths

Curious to hear everyone's thoughts and practices regarding how they protect themselves when punting.

I've had at least two occasions in my punting career where the condom has split, so that in effect, although briefly and without either of our knowledge or intent, I've effectively been bareback with a WG. Both times I've been to the GUM clinic straight afterwards, avoided any sexual contact in the interim, and followed this up with another GUM visit in 3 months, and thankfully been found clear every time.

The experience has however, scared the shit out of me. Once can be a fluke, twice and it's a trend. It's difficult to find any statistics on transmission rates for STIs under various circumstances, so it's hard to evaluate the real risk here.

The majority of us would agree, even in the absence of any solid figures, that bareback is extremely risky, based on common sense alone. I've been thinking lately though, that if a condom breaks during sex with a WG, in effect what happens is you have basically gone bareback, albeit briefly (unless you were able to pull out right before the condom broke via some sort of psychic intuition, there would have to have been some contact between genitals). What does the chance of a condom breaking, plus the chance of catching something from that exposure, translate into regarding your risks of an STI from protected sex with a WG? I.e. how risky is protected sex with a WG, given that a condom can break?
I'd imagine it's nowhere near as high as straight bareback sex for obvious reasons, but what is the risk? Is it negligible? Enough to warrant avoiding even protected sex on punts? I'm interested to see what other members feel about this, and to what extent they consider this a risk.

I'd like to just clarify for anyone not clear, in no way am I advocating bareback, or saying it's on a par in terms of risk with protected sex. What I'm saying is that since bareback is extremely risky, and protected sex has a risk of an element of bareback (due to potential condom breakages), how risky is protected sex?

Furthermore, how does OWO fit into this? The general consensus seems to be that bareback is horrendously risky, but people seem mostly happy to do OWO. Again, it's very difficult to find any set figures, so in the absence of that I'm curious to hear people's thoughts and precautions regarding their risks with OWO.

How many of you have had a condom break with a WG? How many of you give or receive OWO? How do you consider the various risks involved in punting and what precautions do you take? Do you have any figures to back these up or what do you base it on?

I have had a condom break while shagging a WG and did what you did, went to the GUM. I was clear but of course it was a worry.

Its all very simple to me, i punt on a risk to reward basis, so for me OWO is essential to me as OW does zero for me, a wank is more fun. I wouldnt do BB outside a relationship and with a complete stranger. Furthermore i dont wish to meet such fucking idiot women either. Thats why i would rather see a WG advertising she offers BB so i know to avoid her, than punt with WGs only for them to offer BB to me saying "because i like you, i want you to fuck me BB", which has happened a few times over the years unfortunately leading to immediate deflation of my erection and leaving. I am not so stupid as to believe for a second i was the pnly punter such a WG has offered the same to, and i wonder how many accepted the offer.

For me its basic common sense that a WG that offers BB to punters in her advertising is likely to punt with at least some that have punted with other WGs BB thus increasing the risks of infection. What those risks are in reality i dont know, i dont need to know, all i do need to know is i am more likely to get infected by doing BB than by using a condom. I also dont have a problem like some punters do using condoms, its the way it must be for me so thats it. I also go on my own experiences primarily and i havent yet knowingly been infected in 30 years of punting and never yet had a positive test at the GUM. I wont be getting complacent though, but i also dont panic like some do when its in the news about an increase in STIs or some infections are becoming more resistant to drugs. I put it in context, when i first starting punting we were all going to die of AIDS, that never happened obviously and since there have been various big stories about STIs on the increase.

IMO punting isnt for the squeamish, if your worry about infection is more than the fun you get from punting i dont see the point of continuing punting, i would of retired years ago if i felt like that.

Those WGs and punters that offer and accept BB are idiots, mentalists, already infected, wishing to infect others or just plain ignorant in my opinion. Their business of course as adults what they do but doesnt stop me giving my opinion as i see fit.  :hi:

Offline Daffodil

There is a lot of misunderstanding about STIs and the risks involved. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding regarding risk in general.

One poster here recently stated that a prossie definitely doesn't have HIV because he'd received OWO from her and then tested negative for HIV himself a few weeks later. Obviously total nonsense.

All we can do is read some legitimate sites regarding the issue and weigh up the risks and benefits to yourself as an individual. If you're single you can take more risk than if you're in a relationship.

There is no doubt that bareback is more enjoyable than protected (both for oral and penetration), but the risk is too great for me to take. I do protected intercourse and am more than happy with protected oral too.

I also presume that all prossies do bareback (with punters, with partners, with one-night stands) and act accordingly.

KingCharming

  • Guest
Appreciate your thoughts Smiths, and very interesting read.

Have come across a brief metastudy of HIV risks which I found interesting:
External Link/Members Only
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Risk of HIV Transmission From Different Types of Unprotected Sex in the absence of biological factors
Meta-Analysis (i.e. single average from combining studies)

Receptive anal
1.4%

Insertive anal
(presumably insufficient data as only 2 studies)

Receptive vaginal
0.08%

Insertive vaginal
0.04%
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Might seem very low, but as the article says, this is the average in absence of any other factors, which increase risk significantly. E.g. if a woman has another vaginal STI the risk of her getting HIV may be as high as 1% (which if you imagine she does bareback, fairly decent chance of her catching other things too so fairly likely this will be the case). 1% might still seem low, but with something that will prettymuch ruin your life and can't be cured like HIV, I'd say it's pretty significant. Also, this is JUST HIV, which is not so easy to catch compared to others, so your total risk of catching something bareback is pretty damn considerable.

Your thoughts on risk vs reward are definitely how I feel about it; just wanting to get a more informed idea of the actual risk. As I say it's hard to find proper statistics so best I can do is try and get as much input as I can from those with more experience.

Personally I'm actually not that fussed about sex. I like the intimacy of it, but as an act I'm not actually that bothered, and on a 30 minute punt it all seems too rushed for me anyway. In future I might just give it up altogether when punting; if I can't know the real risk, maybe better to assume it's reasonable to be on the safe side.

Toshiba

  • Guest
I punted with an agency and twice the condom broke unknown to us both

Ive got a girlfriend and its scary when it happened but i went to a gum clinic and i was fine, however i am very wary of the risks and its limited me in getting a WG since, im just a bit scared now to take the risk as i feel i got away with it twice

I never consider owo a risk, but im niaive like that

Offline Daffodil

I punted with an agency and twice the condom broke unknown to us both

Ive got a girlfriend and its scary when it happened but i went to a gum clinic and i was fine, however i am very wary of the risks and its limited me in getting a WG since, im just a bit scared now to take the risk as i feel i got away with it twice

I never consider owo a risk, but im niaive like that

It is definitely a risk. A fair few guys on here have caught nasties from owo.

JB1969

  • Guest
I am gearing up for my first punt this week and have been doing research and found that most NHS sexual health sites have said that Gonorhea, genital herpes and syphillis can be caught orally.  Would you say that is taken out of context, how safe is oral without? I dont know maybe i should just take the plunge.

dilettante

  • Guest
I guess it's a bit like fear of flying vs what you see air hostesses doing every day week in, week out and not batting an eyelid.

Offline smiths

I am gearing up for my first punt this week and have been doing research and found that most NHS sexual health sites have said that Gonorhea, genital herpes and syphillis can be caught orally.  Would you say that is taken out of context, how safe is oral without? I dont know maybe i should just take the plunge.

This is for you to decide of course, i havent caught anything in 30 years punting, most of that receiving OWO from WGs. Some punters have caught something though. Its an essential service for me so i wont be changing unless i see proof positive that the risk too far for my liking outweighs the reward of having my cock sucked without the use of a condom which is no fun to me.

aerofan5

  • Guest
A few years ago a doctor in Mexico, who has wide experience of std's, advised use of an antibiotic prior to visiting a WG. Most are penicillin derivatives and the most popular appears to be Amoxicillin.

His comment was that as a bacteria enters a new host it has to assess the foreign DNA before it is able to reproduce, and at this point the antibiotic binds to it and breaks the 'shell' of the bacteria, preventing reproduction.

I take one pill per day for a week beforehand. Works for me as I love OWO, and seems to fix colds/sore throats too as I have not had one for many years.

Offline walter

Where do you get your antibiotics from aerofan5? I have enough of a job getting them when I'm actually ill and need them these days. I thought doctors were loathe to prescribe them for fear of the various viruses learning how to beat them.
Banned reason: Multiple accounts. (Walter White)
Banned by: daviemac

JB1969

  • Guest
This is for you to decide of course, i havent caught anything in 30 years punting, most of that receiving OWO from WGs. Some punters have caught something though. Its an essential service for me so i wont be changing unless i see proof positive that the risk too far for my liking outweighs the reward of having my cock sucked without the use of a condom which is no fun to me.

True, i guess i will go for a visit once i have decided and see how i find it.  Thanks for the advice

aerofan5

  • Guest
That seems to be the problem with the NHS these days - they state the 'long term view' which is bloody useless when you need fixing.

Best thing is get a prescription or a carton, scan it and print it, then when you go on holiday abroad check with pharmacists and say you want an emergency supply as you have left your stuff in UK. They won't all supply you but you will find one.

Other than a holiday, a cheap day trip via EasyJet to the former EE countries, with a picture of a carton downloaded from the net will do the job. Other folk on this site may be able to advise.

As a comment, I have found Amoxicillin to be totally free of any side effects.


Offline Daffodil

A few years ago a doctor in Mexico, who has wide experience of std's, advised use of an antibiotic prior to visiting a WG. Most are penicillin derivatives and the most popular appears to be Amoxicillin.

His comment was that as a bacteria enters a new host it has to assess the foreign DNA before it is able to reproduce, and at this point the antibiotic binds to it and breaks the 'shell' of the bacteria, preventing reproduction.

I take one pill per day for a week beforehand. Works for me as I love OWO, and seems to fix colds/sore throats too as I have not had one for many years.

This is really stupid advice. Based on what? A doctor in Mexico?  :dash:

Penicillins are one of maybe ten different types of antibiotic. Each antibiotic has different effectiveness against a specific bug. Penicillins (of which amoxicillin is one) aren't even used to treat gonorrhoea (anymore) or chlamydia. And they have no effect at all against viruses (herpes, HIV, hepatitis, genital warts). Their use does however increase the resistance of bacteria, both on an individual level and for the community at large.

You haven't caught anything simply because it's rare to catch an STI from owo, not because you are incorrectly self-medicating.

Offline haystacks79

That seems to be the problem with the NHS these days - they state the 'long term view' which is bloody useless when you need fixing.

I'd prefer to take their "long-term view" and have some effective anti-biotics in the future, rather than follow the complete rubbish you've posted above.

Offline smiths

This is really stupid advice. Based on what? A doctor in Mexico?  :dash:

Penicillins are one of maybe ten different types of antibiotic. Each antibiotic has different effectiveness against a specific bug. Penicillins (of which amoxicillin is one) aren't even used to treat gonorrhoea (anymore) or chlamydia. And they have no effect at all against viruses (herpes, HIV, hepatitis, genital warts). Their use does however increase the resistance of bacteria, both on an individual level and for the community at large.

You haven't caught anything simply because it's rare to catch an STI from owo, not because you are incorrectly self-medicating.

Spot on. If this was a universally proved and accepted medical fact ALL Doctors and GUMs would be telling everyone so. As they arent it isnt, its just one Doctors opinion which this poster has found to be helpful. It doesnt in anyway mean others will find it helpful, and my advice to all is seek qualified medical advice rather than just taking the advice off any poster on here as regards this matter. :hi:

Joe Blob

  • Guest
A few years ago a doctor in Mexico, who has wide experience of std's, advised use of an antibiotic prior to visiting a WG. Most are penicillin derivatives and the most popular appears to be Amoxicillin.

His comment was that as a bacteria enters a new host it has to assess the foreign DNA before it is able to reproduce, and at this point the antibiotic binds to it and breaks the 'shell' of the bacteria, preventing reproduction.

I take one pill per day for a week beforehand. Works for me as I love OWO, and seems to fix colds/sore throats too as I have not had one for many years.
I'm glad l'm not the only one to think that advice was a load of cojones. If you don't want to belive Daffodil, Haystacks or me, fair enough, but at least get qualified medical advice from someone in the UK

Offline smiths

I'm glad l'm not the only one to think that advice was a load of cojones. If you don't want to belive Daffodil, Haystacks or me, fair enough, but at least get qualified medical advice from someone in the UK

Add me to the list who think it is terrible advice and advise getting qualified medical advice over here in the UK.

Joe Blob

  • Guest
Add me to the list who think it is terrible advice and advise getting qualified medical advice over here in the UK.
I would have, it just took me so long to compose the post on my phone, l didn't see you'd posted in the meantime

Offline smiths

I would have, it just took me so long to compose the post on my phone, l didn't see you'd posted in the meantime

Cheers Joe. :hi:

carlisle78

  • Guest

I take one pill per day for a week beforehand. Works for me as I love OWO, and seems to fix colds/sore throats too as I have not had one for many years.

A cold is a virus - and therefore antibiotics will have no effect on it at all. One of the reasons we have bacteria growing resistant to anti-biotic is because Doctors accept their patients pleas for anti-biotics to treat colds and flu.

baltar

  • Guest
Never had a condom break, but I have had it fall off. The first time neither of us noticed, the second time, it came off as I was pulling out (vacuum suction vagina)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 07:54:50 pm by baltar »

aerofan5

  • Guest
Well, I expected a few comments so:

1. I'm pretty sure that Mexican doctors know at least as much about std's as American or UK doctors, if not more;

2. Taking Penicillin based drugs to cure a condition is totally different to preventing one;

3. In the experience of many people I have spoken to, American medics treat people not to cure them, but to have them returning as clients. UK doctors seem to treat at the lowest possible cost rather then via the best method;

4. But you pays your money and you takes your choice, and if this all worries you, keep to the hand shandy.

BristolP

  • Guest
A few years ago a doctor in Mexico, who has wide experience of std's, advised use of an antibiotic prior to visiting a WG. Most are penicillin derivatives and the most popular appears to be Amoxicillin.

His comment was that as a bacteria enters a new host it has to assess the foreign DNA before it is able to reproduce, and at this point the antibiotic binds to it and breaks the 'shell' of the bacteria, preventing reproduction.

I take one pill per day for a week beforehand. Works for me as I love OWO, and seems to fix colds/sore throats too as I have not had one for many years.

It’s viruses that access DNA, Antibiotics have no effects on viruses. Where did this Mexican Doctor buy his qualifications?

Persie

  • Guest
I think that in a nutshell you stand a much higher chance of getting whatever nasties are going around like gonorrhoea, HPV, herpes etc, doing bb - these can be cured.

Also HIV of course - but the incidence here is still very very low and you're far more likely to be killed oin your daily commute to work than pick up HIV via bb sex.

It also depends upon who you have been shagging.

As certain areas and countries have higher incidence of HIV

I think gonorrhoea, HPV etc can be caught BB oral but I don't think HIV can be passed on orally. I am talking from hooker to guy. I think the risks are different from guy to girl (eg if guy CIMs and has HIV and she as lacerations in gums)

KingCharming

  • Guest
It’s viruses that access DNA, Antibiotics have no effects on viruses. Where did this Mexican Doctor buy his qualifications?
To be fair, I know a few Doctors over here, who got their qualifications here, who I wouldn't trust to put on a plaster.

aerofan5

  • Guest
With you on that KC.

Last time I had a check up in UK at a clap clinic the doctor was asian, hardly spoke any English and what he did say was total rubbish.

BristolP

  • Guest
To be fair, I know a few Doctors over here, who got their qualifications here, who I wouldn't trust to put on a plaster.

I am not insulting Mexican Doctors in general. Just questioning this one.

aerofan5

  • Guest
OK BP,

The DNA comment was mine, not his, and the way I understood it, was that bugs going from one environment to another, have, so to speak, to check around to see if they can reproduce. At this point, if antibiotics are present, they don't function well and splitting into multiple cells is unlikely to happen.

Sounds a bit too simple, but I think that's how it works - but prevention, not curing an existing ailment.

dilettante

  • Guest
Quote
... but I don't think HIV can be passed on orally [ie hooker to punter]

It definitely can, but the chances are a lot less compared to via penetrative sex; but still, if you've got any little nicks or grazes, maybe from shaving your pubes before you went, you can catch HIV off her - so be careful! ;-)

Sashagirl

  • Guest
There is so much misinformation on this thread it's astounding  :scare:

Antibiotics do NOTHING to prevent viruses, full stop. In fact they actually make you more susceptible to getting all sorts of infections whilst on them as they deplete the 'good' bacteria in our guts (their mission is usually "kill ALL bacteria", a properly selective antibiotic which would ONLY kill specific bacteria would be the holy grail but has never been synthesized without serious side effects). The gut is 90% of our immune system, and we NEED these good bacteria as they 'compete' with all sorts of pathogens and stop them taking hold. They are our natural immune system. This is the reason we should only take antibiotics if we really need them - for a BACTERIAL infection only which is causing real issues for the body (not a small skin boil for example).

Using one a day antibiotic for a week before seeing a WG is an incredibly daft thing to do, in general because of resistance building (not just a possibility, almost a certainty) and also because doing so will likely weaken your defences against VIRAL infections. And the viral infections are those most serious for punters (although gonorrhea which is bacterial is fast becoming seriously difficult to treat now because of resistance). Although it would offer some protection against bacteria taking hold, by a similar mechanism another poster has explained.

I think the problem here is that people do not realise which infections are VIRAL and which are BACTERIAL.

VIRAL = HIV, Hep C, Genital Herpes (and oral herpes, which funnily enough can "cross over" ie herpes type 1 oral can infect the genitals and herpes type 2 genital the other way round although rare)

BACTERIAL = Chlamydia, Gonorrhea, Syphilis, NSU.

Generally, bacterial infections can be 'cured' with antibiotics (although gonorrhea is terribly resistant to treatment nowadays).

Viral infections - well for the purpose of this discussion, sexually transmitted viral infections - once "set up" in your body, they do not leave your body. They hide until your immune system is compromised in any way and then come up again, or in the case of HIV and Hep C, they systematically try to cause damage to your immune system.

Neither type of infection is ideal obviously! There is much misinformation and hysteria surrounding STIs.

HIV and Hep C - many factors determine how easily it can be transmitted, but as the charming one above posted, it has a low transmission rate. However not a gamble most want to take because of it's life-limiting potential and stigma. HIV and OWO - all the studies and literature have shown that it is theoretically possible to contract HIV from either giving or receiving oral sex but there have thus far been no documented cases, because most people have oral sex along with other forms like vaginal or anal. HIV is not a very hardy virus - it requires optimal conditions and a good and easy "way in" if you like, so it unlikely although possible. Also HIV is not the death sentence it once was. However I'm sure no-one wants it other than the those "bug-chasers".

Herpes - EXTREMELY common. Most of you have had cold sores, no? Well a significant percentage of adults also have genital herpes lurking in the nerves near their genitals. However most people's immune systems do enough to keep it at bay, although some have repeated outbreaks of blisters. It is infectious mostly at the time the blisters are "active" so can usually be seen. Can easily be transmitted by OWO from someone with a cold sore, can also be transmitted through just skin contact with the blisters, so a condom isn't really protection. Most people are pretty ignorant about herpes so it may be difficult to explain to the wife! It can theoretically lie dormant for years and years though so I guess it can be explained away, but if you give her it I suppose it will arouse suspicions. Life-long (ie you never get rid of it til you die, but normal immunocompetent person's own body will keep it at bay). but not life threatening just annoying.

The other culprits - Bacterial - much easier to catch! There is something like a 50% transmission rate for a female having one unprotected vaginal sex episode with an infected male. I think the male's risk is lower. Gonorrhea is definitely possible to catch in the throat - and transmit from throat to penis, although probably a relatively low risk for the male rather than the "receiving throat".

Bacteria have been the enemy of humans since the year dot! And whilst it seemed that the advent of antibiotics made bacteria some insignificant easily curable malady rather than the life threatening thing of the past (google medieval syphilis  :vomit:) , it seems that we thought wrong. Bacteria are very very good at mutating and very clever at becoming resistant to antibiotics - if you have ever worked in a lab environment with bacteria you will know what I mean. Scientists are working overtime to find a new "class" of antibiotics because we have not been successful in making a new class for over 20 years, and the bacteria are winning. The best defence against bacteria is being a healthy person with a robust immune system, and NOT taking antibiotics unless you actually have a confirmed bacterial infection which is "taking over" , ie your body is not successful at fighting off itself.

It's all risk versus reward though. As everything in life is. Personally I would think very carefully if the reward (in my case cause I am a 'retired' WG : financial) is worth the possible risks of infection. If I was a punter I would weigh up whether the reward (more pleasure) was worth the possible risks of infection. Neither is right or wrong, it's an individual choice.

This issue needs education, not the hysteria and misinformation which often accompanies such things.   

 
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 10:31:52 pm by Sashagirl »

Offline wristjob

I have had a condom break while shagging a WG and did what you did, went to the GUM. I was clear but of course it was a worry.

Its all very simple to me, i punt on a risk to reward basis, so for me OWO is essential to me as OW does zero for me, a wank is more fun. I wouldnt do BB outside a relationship and with a complete stranger. Furthermore i dont wish to meet such fucking idiot women either. Thats why i would rather see a WG advertising she offers BB so i know to avoid her, than punt with WGs only for them to offer BB to me saying "because i like you, i want you to fuck me BB", which has happened a few times over the years unfortunately leading to immediate deflation of my erection and leaving. I am not so stupid as to believe for a second i was the pnly punter such a WG has offered the same to, and i wonder how many accepted the offer.

For me its basic common sense that a WG that offers BB to punters in her advertising is likely to punt with at least some that have punted with other WGs BB thus increasing the risks of infection.

I've had condoms break on 2 occasions too, and actually with the ex they fell off a couple of times and got stuck inside her. To be honest the 2nd time I felt it was 50/50 whether it broke or she was telling me to piss off. The first time was me being a bit inexperienced and it catching the sheets - we stopped immediately so probably 0 unprotected penetration there.

I feel much the same as you about OWO. if that became a problem I would probably give up punting and probably 1/3 of my punts are just oral anyway.

I just block anybody who advertises BB on my AW searches. Obviously you never know for sure but it's the %ge risk compared to doing something you really want to do. When I was struggling to cum once a girl said "you don't look like you've got AIDS" - I didn't follow that up but it scared me. Certainly one to make sure you don't go back.

Offline wristjob

It definitely can, but the chances are a lot less compared to via penetrative sex; but still, if you've got any little nicks or grazes, maybe from shaving your pubes before you went, you can catch HIV off her - so be careful! ;-)

Something I'm conscious of. I sometimes end up cutting my hands a lot with the work I do and am conscious of this when I see WGs, or visit around it. One thing I am super careful with is fingering a WG. If you stick your hand up her pussy then play with your cock surely that's not massively different to penetration. Generally speaking I only do that left handed now which might seem odd but it's a minor inconvenience.

KingCharming

  • Guest
When I was struggling to cum once a girl said "you don't look like you've got AIDS"
Perhaps it was her idea of dirty talk?

dilettante

  • Guest
Interesting - I read on saafe about a similar manoeuvre they do to avoid a certain sort of contact.

Very interesting post Sasha, I was sure you were going to be a microbiologist not a retired WG!  I'm a bit confused about
Quote
... it is theoretically possible to contract HIV from either giving or receiving oral sex but there have thus far been no documented cases, because most people have oral sex along with other forms like vaginal or anal.
  Well no, because probably the majority of WGs offer OWO, but the majority do not offer BB vaginal/anal.  I've definitely seen figures for likelihood via OWO, but from what Persie and yourself say they are likely 'theoretical' then.  I like your bit about looking after the gut - the gut and the lungs go hand-in-hand in traditional Chinese medicine and are extensions of the exterior surface of the skin, but are the most abused in modern lifestyles.  Exactly as you say - build up your immune system, eat healthily, fast every week, keep off prescription medicines if you can, and hopefully punt with impunity.  See my post about "Ailments from WGs" - saw one that nearly gave me a bout of flu for a second time, she was still streaming, didn't bother me a bit second time round, built up immunity.

Sashagirl

  • Guest
The studies which have tried to research the actual statistics of the theoretical risk of HIV transmission from OWO have mainly been done on non-sex-working populations, and whilst many cases of HIV were documented not one person stated that they had ONLY had oral sex in the whole period where transmission would have taken place. Most people don't just have oral in their sex lives and that is all. So therefore no actual case has been recorded where Oral sex was the definitive infective cause of HIV, as far as I know. However that does not disprove the theoretical risk, ie biologically it COULD happen. Highly unlikely I would imagine. But again, all risks vs benefits are up to the individual to decide after all the facts have been presented to them.  :)

HIV is more of a "blood borne" virus rather than a "secretion" infection like chlamydia. Which is why you need a blood test for HIV, and chlamydia can be diagnosed from a swab test. This is also why it is easier to catch chlamydia etc from sexual routes than it is HIV. However when the circs are right, HIV can of course be spread through sexual intercourse.

I find it very interesting also that people with blood type O seem to be naturally more 'resistant' to HIV than other blood groups. Not saying that if you are a type O then just go out and have bareback (-: , just saying it's a topic I find interesting.

 
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 11:34:34 pm by Sashagirl »

Offline CatBBW

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Condom breakages are usually due to...

* using oil based lubes (baby oil etc)
* using oil based moisturisers on the pussy/cock
* oil based lipsticks
* giving OW and switching to fucking without changing the condom
* not enough lube inside and outside of the condom
* too much porn-style banging without a break
* too long banging without changing the condom
* BABY WIPES! often have some kind of oil in them
* catching nails/jewellery/teeth on them when putting them on


dilettante

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Quote
I find it very interesting also that people with blood type O seem to be naturally more 'resistant' to HIV than other blood groups. Not saying that if you are a type O then just go out and have bareback (-: , just saying it's a topic I find interesting.
They say that AIDS started by people having sex with monkeys - so maybe that means that if your blood type is "Rhesus positive" you're more likely to pick up HIV - Rhesus monkeys etc?

Offline wristjob

I had a discussion once with a guy who had HIV (since died sadly). He did some work promoting awareness of the facts surrounding HIV and busting all the myths and disinformation in the press.

It's not a very contageous disease and it's mostly about blood. Also it doesn't live long outside the body.

In terms of vulnerability it is a lot to do with your immune system - and factors affecting infection are lots of stress, other illnesses etc - and he pointed out it tends to affect more people in high pressure jobs & athletes. he also said people may have got infected and fought it off - and just thought they had mild flu.

None of which is a reason to be complacent but I guess try and keep your immune system ok is a big help.

Offline CBPaul

Never had a condom break but many years ago, back in my street punting days, I had a girl take the condom off. Must have happened as we switched from cowgirl to mish, finished the deed, withdrew and spotted the condom hanging over the handbrake. She then quizzed me about being clean - apparently she was clean because she 'had just come out of prison'  :wacko:

3  months of shitting myself until I got the all clear.

Offline CBPaul

All this antibiotic stuff sounds like a pretty wacky theory and nothing else.

If antibiotics could be used to prevent catching an infection, of any sort, then surely the major pharmaceutical companies would be marketing them as such - much the same way as the flu jab is offered to vulnerable groups.

Knocking back antibiotics on the off chance is only going to reduce their effectiveness even further, exactly what the NHS is trying to combat through being less willing to prescribe. 

Joe Blob

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In terms of vulnerability it is a lot to do with your immune system - and factors affecting infection are lots of stress, other illnesses etc - and he pointed out it tends to affect more people in high pressure jobs & athletes.

In what way?  Stressed people are more likely to contract HIV?  HIV is more likely to turn into full-blown AIDS?  HIV will turn into AIDS more quickly in stressed people?

he also said people may have got infected and fought it off - and just thought they had mild flu.

How would anyone know this?  That sounds like 'bloke in pub speak' with no scientific basis.



Offline King Nuts

I am gearing up for my first punt this week and have been doing research and found that most NHS sexual health sites have said that Gonorhea, genital herpes and syphillis can be caught orally.  Would you say that is taken out of context, how safe is oral without? I dont know maybe i should just take the plunge.

How safe? Well, there's the medical view, which is that it's not safe. Then there's the view that only you can establish for yourself, which is based on your own personal reward vs risk scale.

Smiths says he's been having OWO for 30 years and never caught a damn thing. I too had OWO for years without any issue, and then just over a year ago caught gonnorhea from OWO.

Now you can get that sorted out at your GUM clinic, but I can tell you now: it's nasty. You'll need at least two visits to the clinic, and while you're sitting there, you'll read all the literature which will tell you that in a few short years, all known antibiotics for curing gonorrhea will be useless. As for the affliction itself, it'll hurt when you pee, there'll be yellow stuff coming out of the end of your knob and your balls will swell up. Time off work + grief =  not much fun.

I have since adjusted my own reward vs risk scale, and I'd no more think of having OWO than I would going bareback. Trying to read up on all the statistics, I'd say the risks for transmission of any and all nasties are not that far apart when you're debating OWO vs bareback. Both are risky. And I find it vaguely weird that those who vigorously defend OWO are often the same people who castigate barebackers.


yourgent

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If ever I had any doubt, which frankly I didn't have much of in the first place, it was dispelled in an instant after an incident which scared me half to hell.

After some limp OWO and FK we moved to mish. After about 5 minutes she stops me saying there has been an accident and there I was thinking the condom had split. Turns out she was bleeding. She ran in to the bathroom, condom and all to clean up and kept telling me how clean she was and how embarassed she was. Whether it was the monthly or other issues I had no idea and no inclination to find out - just left.

Thankfully I was covered and none went on me but it shit me up so much I had to have 2 showers when I got back to my hotel.
Part of me was thinking, these things happen, but honestly for the first time after 8 years of punting I was seriously wondering if this is worth it.

Bracknell 67

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I think that some posters are perhaps a little too paranoid about the bareback issue (accidently or not) leading to an STI or God forbid AIDS; it's not necessarily a certainty you'll catch something if it's a one-off with a prossie that is not a known or advertised barebacker.  Of course the risk is greater but it's not a given that you will catch something from a single act and a few thrusts; a bit of perspective is perhaps needed?  How many of us have shagged non-working girls bareback knowing that they've had multiple partners?  Loads I'm sure.  Personally I avoid girls that advertise bareback and would never do so even if in the throes of passion the temptation is there (but read below).  In my punting life I've had two bareback incidents and one other experience and thankfully never caught a thing.

Once was when I suffered from a condom split.  Sadly, I'm not blessed with a large cock and the prossie I was seeing was one that put the condom on when only semi-erect to give oral.  After oral she jumped aboard, after a few minutes we changed positions and I was banging hard when she asked me stop - the "condom's split".  Personally I felt no difference but when I withdrew yes, the condom had split.  She had used the smallest condom she had based on my small cock size but I do grow a bit (!) and basically the condom was too tight and split.  I had real difficulty rolling off what was left of this really tight condom, before then put on another to finish the deed.  I suppose because she was an oral with and sex with condom girl then this reduced the risk - I never caught anything.

The other incident was when I was getting a superb body to body very oily massage by a tiny Thai prossie.  She was sliding up and down on me and my cock was sliding ON her fanny lips; in fact I was thinking I could easily slip in.  Lo and behold I did, one thrust than out again.  Thought nothing of it until it happened again a minute or two later, just a single thrust and out again - she said sorry!  When it happened a third time I came to my senses asked her to be a condom on and got on with the finale.  Again, I caught nothing.  BTW the massage was one of the best oil massages I have ever had!

My third incident was a bit of an own goal I suppose.  I had been seeing a prossie on a regular basis for well over a year when she retired.  I had seen her outside of her 'work' a couple of times so we had each others personal numbers (a complete no no I know guys) but after no contact for three months she sent me a text to ask whether I wanted to meet for a drink.  I did so and we ended up at her place. One thing lead to another and before we knew it we were on the bed snogging and groping for England.  We got naked and were getting to the stage where a shag was inevitable - when she announced she didn't have any condoms (it was her place after all and not her working room) and I didn't have any - I don't carry them routinely.  Bollocks we just went for it!  It did prey on my mind for a while so rather be safe than sorry I went to a GUM clinic.  Thankfully I got the all clear 10 days later.

So what am I saying? Fuck knows, I just wanted to share my non-condom wearing incidents with prossies; thankfully without catching anything.

Offline wristjob

Blob you quote funny.

if you are highly stressed or already have an illness then you are more vulnerable to catching any other illness. No different for HIV. Full blown AIDS comes years after, probably similar situation but I can't imagine living with HIV is stress free.

In terms of your immune system fighting it off, again same as anything. You catch flu and sometimes it lasts 3 weeks, sometimes you have the sniffles for 2 days and your immune system stops it before it gets a foothold. Sometimes you go years without getting a bad case of the flu, other years you get it once a month - because your immune system is trashed. I guess AIDS is no different and he told me nothing I didn't already know - but just hadn't joined up the dots.

galinsoga

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Post by Sashagirl needs commending for it's excellent scientific/ medical content expressed very clearly.

Broken condoms - I have had a few examples.  The nightmare scenario was when the condoms broke on two successive nights spent with a young lady in Nigeria - "imported" to the hotel for me by an obliging staff member.   :scare: :scare:  In Nigeria you do not just nip off to the local GUM clinic!  Indeed, because of the location and nature of my role in Nigeria it was quite a while (months) before I could get anywhere near acceptable medical facilities.  It was simply a case of "hang on and hope".  Fortunately there were no subsequent developments.

Discussion with the young lady concerned and, subsequently confirmed by a UK based lady of similar ethnic origin, revealed that the condom abrasion/ break problem comes when shaved pubes have acquired that first re-growth of hair.  African hair is very strong and a short fuzz is like sandpaper.  In Nigeria we solved the problem by me giving her pubes a nice smooth shave each subsequent evening. She thought that was great fun - so did I.
 
The other occasions of condom breakage (2) have both been in China and resulted from using the local condoms which are (a) rubbish (b) incredibly small.  During my over-activity during a couple of weeks in Shanghai I had used all my "stock" brought from UK.  Being the extrovert old git that I am I went back to the pharmacy taking an (unused) condom, approached the very pretty young girl behind the counter and (since my Chinese is zero) explained size problem with appropriate hand gestures and lots of grins.  This caused immense laughter amongst the other staff and customers.  If ever you go to China you will learn that the people there have a great sense of FUN and that they really do appreciate a good laugh.  I love 'em.  They did not have any better/ bigger condom stock but I scrounged some off another ex-pat and carried on with my wicked ways

Gali

Offline Thepacifist

Just been to the clinic. I always feel better after going. No hpv virus just a sebaceous gland that she got rid of for me. Looking forward to my next punt(s) coz it's been too long!  :dance:

Offline Dani

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Condom breakages are usually due to...

* using oil based lubes (baby oil etc)
* using oil based moisturisers on the pussy/cock
* oil based lipsticks
* giving OW and switching to fucking without changing the condom
* not enough lube inside and outside of the condom
* too much porn-style banging without a break
* too long banging without changing the condom
* BABY WIPES! often have some kind of oil in them
* catching nails/jewellery/teeth on them when putting them on

And the main reason is ill fitting condoms, too small or too big will cause splitting.  Its amazing how many don't know how to put on the right size especially when any GUM clinic will show you samples of what size fits what and the maximum and minimum size cock for each size condom