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Author Topic: Is anyone concerned about human trafficking?  (Read 6330 times)

Online fredpunter

I agree with those who think it's hard to define exactly what coerced means. The only lass I've ever met who I ended up feeling very uncomfortable about was as follows ...

she was advertised as Colombian, and didn't speak great English but sufficient to clarify my ignorance as to whether Colombians spoke Portuguese or Spanish (Spanish being the answer apparently). She was young, friendly, very attractive, and once we got in to it very enthusiastic and seemed to enjoy what we got up to, though not quite everything on her likes list was genuinely on offer. So far so good, but at the end of the meeting she took a phone called and spoke fluently and at length in a language that clearly wasn't Spanish. I asked her about this and she told me the call was from her Romanian b/f and the language was Romanian. My heart skipped a beat as she seemed perfectly genuine in believing that this pimp was really her b/f and that she was working to help them build a bright and happy future together. I couldn't help but believe she was in for a big disappointment in the not too distant future. I was actually tempted to report this to the police but what could I say? "there's a nice, young, naive girl who is being conned to work quite willingly as a prostitute by some-one she thinks loves her" ?

To make matters worse, about 2 days after I saw her her likes list was amended to include BB and unprotected sex (never quite worked out what the difference is meant to be). 

PS of course with hind-sight it is very unlikely that she was really Colombian.     

Something I have thought about, and as you say you can't really know if a girl is doing it against her will or not. Normally I'll speak with the girl a bit and ask about her reasons for going into escorting, and am happy with the answers given that I don't believe I've ever been with anyone who's doing it against their will. Then again though, who's to say they're not just good liars?

What COULD work would be some sort of licensing system. Punters stick to licensed prossies, and to get a license involves vetting procedures for the WG, involving verification of bank accounts and auditing to ensure the money is going to them and they're in control of it. Involves a fair bit of extra cost, but at £150 an hour I'm sure the prossies can take a hit to their income for the sake of protecting WGs. Can't imagine anything like this happening because a. punters and prossies alike are made to feel ashamed by politicians and the media, so the whole thing is kept as secretive as possible, b. I doubt most WGs are concerned about human trafficking enough to bother with such a system let alone pay for it. As a punter I don't see any realistic way of knowing whether a girl is genuinely trafficked against her will; you just don't have access to the kind of information that could confirm it, so all you have to go on are hunches and intuition.

The prossies I've spoken to, whether Romanian, Polish, German or Russian all say the same thing; you can earn a fortune over here being a prossie, so here is where they come to work. I'm with a lot of the other posters here in thinking the vast majority of girls trafficked here to become prossies do so willingly, and the recent police crackdowns bear this out.

i think will be really hard for a girl to do this work against her will , if you stay and think about it its really easy for them to get rid of their pimp or whatever they are , they only need 2-3 min to alert police or anyone to help , so they can do that from any punter . I think a lot of them say that just to make the impression that they are protected . Ok i agree that a lot of girls in brothels may have a pimp/boyfriend whatever but im more than 100% that the ones that are working with aw for example are 100% independent and do this just because of the big financial gain .

Offline Strawberry

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i think will be really hard for a girl to do this work against her will , if you stay and think about it its really easy for them to get rid of their pimp or whatever they are , they only need 2-3 min to alert police or anyone to help , so they can do that from any punter . I think a lot of them say that just to make the impression that they are protected . Ok i agree that a lot of girls in brothels may have a pimp/boyfriend whatever but im more than 100% that the ones that are working with aw for example are 100% independent and do this just because of the big financial gain .

I think you are very naiive.

Offline vorian

i think will be really hard for a girl to do this work against her will , if you stay and think about it its really easy for them to get rid of their pimp or whatever they are , they only need 2-3 min to alert police or anyone to help , so they can do that from any punter . I think a lot of them say that just to make the impression that they are protected . Ok i agree that a lot of girls in brothels may have a pimp/boyfriend whatever but im more than 100% that the ones that are working with aw for example are 100% independent and do this just because of the big financial gain .

I respect your right to air your opinion but to say that you are more than 100% sure that all AW prossies are fully indie without pimps is a very big statement to make.  I would love for you to expand on your reasoning behind this statement.
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jcdmj12

i think will be really hard for a girl to do this work against her will , if you stay and think about it its really easy for them to get rid of their pimp or whatever they are , they only need 2-3 min to alert police or anyone to help , so they can do that from any punter . I think a lot of them say that just to make the impression that they are protected . Ok i agree that a lot of girls in brothels may have a pimp/boyfriend whatever but im more than 100% that the ones that are working with aw for example are 100% independent and do this just because of the big financial gain .

That sounds like wishful thinking to me. 

Bear in mind that in many EE countries, the police are still viewed with fear and suspicion, and may be involved in organised crime. Also people over here still have family back home who can be threatened.

Offline Strawberry

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That sounds like wishful thinking to me. 

Bear in mind that in many EE countries, the police are still viewed with fear and suspicion, and may be involved in organised crime. Also people over here still have family back home who can be threatened.

Many UK nationals believe that prostitution is illegal. Many abusive relationships involve a period of 'grooming', person is lulled into a false sense of security, then convinced they are worthless. Numerous women and men stay with abusers who persuade them to do things they wouldn't normally do, it's not as simple as a free 2 minute window to dash for help.

Offline smiths

i think will be really hard for a girl to do this work against her will , if you stay and think about it its really easy for them to get rid of their pimp or whatever they are , they only need 2-3 min to alert police or anyone to help , so they can do that from any punter . I think a lot of them say that just to make the impression that they are protected . Ok i agree that a lot of girls in brothels may have a pimp/boyfriend whatever but im more than 100% that the ones that are working with aw for example are 100% independent and do this just because of the big financial gain .

I certainly dont agree 100% of WGs on A/W havent got pimps and all are Indies but instead believe some are advertised by their pimps as Indies in the hope the police dont nick them. Obviously i dont agree with that dishonesty. How many this accounts for i have no idea, and neither does anyone else. BUT having a pimp doesnt also mean the WG is being forced, many WGs have pimps but arent being forced, i have punted with hundreds of them over the years. Some preferred to pay a pimp who got them their punters and supplied the premises than do that themselves.

Couple of interesting posts by Jim on this thread above about Operation Pentameters 1 and 2 where a very small number to what must be the whole of foreign WGs working were rescued. Some of them were voluntarily trafficked. As he says on this thread more are likely to have agreed to pay a pimp say 50% of their fees, although that figure is a pure guess not based on actual proven knowledge of WGs as a whole and which some WGs might pay but others pay less, who knows, and more are likely to work voluntarily than not and would still be earning far more than they would in their home country.

Apart from the lying about being an Indie which is wrong i am not seeing the problem IF a WG has voluntarily agreed to pay a pimp an agreed cut, thats her business as i see it. Only when its proven to be force or i was to believe a woman was being forced which fortunately i havent would it become a problem. Pimps will always exist in punting in my view, irrespective of the rights or wrongs of them.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 10:43:26 PM by smiths »

Offline vorian

I certainly dont agree 100% of WGs on A/W havent got pimps and all are Indies but instead believe some are advertised by their pimps as Indies in the hope the police dont nick them. Obviously i dont agree with that dishonesty. How many this accounts for i have no idea, and neither does anyone else. BUT having a pimp doesnt also mean the WG is being forced, many WGs have pimps but arent being forced, i have punted with hundreds of them over the years. Some preferred to pay a pimp who got them their punters and supplied the premises than do that themselves.

Couple of interesting posts by Jim on this thread above about Operation Pentameters 1 and 2 where a very small number to what must be the whole of foreign WGs working were rescued. Some of them were voluntarily trafficked. As he says on this thread more are likely to have agreed to pay a pimp say 50% of their fees, although that figure is a pure guess not based on actual proven knowledge of WGs as a whole and which some WGs might pay but others pay less, who knows, and more are likely to work voluntarily than not and would still be earning more than they would in their home country.

Apart from the lying about being an Indie which is wrong i am not seeing the problem IF a WG has voluntarily agreed to pay a pimp an agreed cut, thats her business as i see it. Only when its proven to be force or i was to believe a woman was being forced which fortunately i havent would it become a problem. Pimps will always exist in punting in my view, irrespective of the rights or wrongs of them.

Agreed as always to 'Smiths' voice of reason.
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Offline MidlandsEscortxo

People seem to believe trafficked girls make up a very high population of sex workers when thankfully that isnt the case, in the UK it's usually a very small minority .. not that the media would have you believe otherwise. Thankfully having worked in a few parlours etc I havent had to come across anyone who has been trafficked, however I have heard a few stories here and there but more generally towards London than anywhere else. tbqh though we will never know what goes on behind closed doors and as previous posters have mentioned, It would be very hard to tell whether a girl was forced or not as I assume she would want to put on a front in fear of her pimp or trafficker. Also, I read while studying something that it's not in fact Romania who have high levels of trafficking but i think Moldova was the most high risk country of females being trafficked

Offline smiths

People seem to believe trafficked girls make up a very high population of sex workers when thankfully that isnt the case, in the UK it's usually a very small minority .. not that the media would have you believe otherwise. Thankfully having worked in a few parlours etc I havent had to come across anyone who has been trafficked, however I have heard a few stories here and there but more generally towards London than anywhere else. tbqh though we will never know what goes on behind closed doors and as previous posters have mentioned, It would be very hard to tell whether a girl was forced or not as I assume she would want to put on a front in fear of her pimp or trafficker. Also, I read while studying something that it's not in fact Romania who have high levels of trafficking but i think Moldova was the most high risk country of females being trafficked

Indeed, its most certainly not been proved in court by convictions that trafficking makes up a high percentage of sex workers, that is a fact. You mention the media, as we know many of them are anti prostitution or see it as a good way to sell their product to do stories on prostitution, often with a picture of a street WG talking to a kerb crawling punter through his car window, all to set the scene and picture they wish to portray. Now as i know from friends some people simply believe the guff the media chucks out, they dont question it. I imagine many people would say its disgusting and illegal to be a WG or a punter. Also in the media there are the femi-nazis like Bindel and in politics people like Harridan with an anti agenda that is a crusade to them. Reason and truth plays no part in their thinking unless it correlates with their beliefs, that ALL WGs are being exploited even if they dont realize or accept it and ALL punters are exploiting them and should be criminalised as the scum we are.

You make a good point about what goes on behind closed doors. Now, in all of history we as punters know more about prostitution than ever before due to the net in the main, BUT most of us simply havent the insight into what does go on behind those closed doors as obviously we arent privy to it. Now Harridan would no doubt say thats more reason not to punt in the first place, but i for one am not about to ditch a pastime i have been doing for over 30 years because her and other antis say so, or indeed IF she tries to criminalise me if she gets back in in 2015, not that i fancy being the prisons top dogs bumboy. In reality any new law to criminalise punters will be more about scaring them off than nicking them as the police havent the resources to do that and as brothels prove, the inclination in many areas.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 12:03:53 AM by smiths »

Offline vorian

Indeed, its most certainly not been proved in court by convictions that trafficking makes up a high percentage of sex workers, that is a fact. You mention the media, as we know many of them are anti prostitution or see it as a good way to sell their product to do stories on prostitution, often with a picture of a street WG talking to a kerb crawling punter through his car window, all to set the scene and picture they wish to portray. Now as i know from friends some people simply believe the guff the media chucks out, they dont question it. I imagine many people would say its disgusting and illegal to be a WG or a punter. Also in the media there are the femi-nazis like Bindel and in politics people like Harridan with an anti agenda that is a crusade to them. Reason and truth plays no part in their thinking unless it correlates with their beliefs, that ALL WGs are being exploited even if they dont realize or accept it and ALL punters are exploiting them and should be criminalised as the scum we are.

You make a good point about what goes on behind closed doors. Now, in all of history we as punters know more about prostitution than ever before due to the net in the main, BUT most of us simply havent the insight into what does go on behind those closed doors as obviously we arent privy to it. Now Harridan would no doubt say thats more reason not to punt in the first place, but i for one am not about to ditch a pastime i have been doing for over 30 years because her and other antis say so, or indeed IF she tries to criminalise me if she gets back in in 2015, not that i fancy being the prisons top dogs bumboy. In reality any new law to criminalise punters will be more about scaring them off than nicking them as the police havent the resources to do that and as brothels prove, the inclination in many areas.

If that did happen it certainly would not stop me punting, it would stop me voting labour ever. 'Smiths' I know it's a bit late for this but will things every change in your opinion will there come a time when progress is made. I think in how gay rights has come on in the last 20 years or so. It just seems so futile to try to be anti something that has been around for so long.
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Offline MidlandsEscortxo

Indeed, its most certainly not been proved in court by convictions that trafficking makes up a high percentage of sex workers, that is a fact. You mention the media, as we know many of them are anti prostitution or see it as a good way to sell their product to do stories on prostitution, often with a picture of a street WG talking to a kerb crawling punter through his car window, all to set the scene and picture they wish to portray. Now as i know from friends some people simply believe the guff the media chucks out, they dont question it. I imagine many people would say its disgusting and illegal to be a WG or a punter. Also in the media there are the femi-nazis like Bindel and in politics people like Harridan with an anti agenda that is a crusade to them. Reason and truth plays no part in their thinking unless it correlates with their beliefs, that ALL WGs are being exploited even if they dont realize or accept it and ALL punters are exploiting them and should be criminalised as the scum we are.

You make a good point about what goes on behind closed doors. Now, in all of history we as punters know more about prostitution than ever before due to the net in the main, BUT most of us simply havent the insight into what does go on behind those closed doors as obviously we arent privy to it. Now Harridan would no doubt say thats more reason not to punt in the first place, but i for one am not about to ditch a pastime i have been doing for over 30 years because her and other antis say so, or indeed IF she tries to criminalise me if she gets back in in 2015, not that i fancy being the prisons top dogs bumboy. In reality any new law to criminalise punters will be more about scaring them off than nicking them as the police havent the resources to do that and as brothels prove, the inclination in many areas.

The minute they decide to criminalise prostitution is when all the trouble will begin again e.g. dodgy run brothels, girls working the streets, less WG's paying tax (not that many do), more likelihood of trafficking etc. More touble than it'l be worth, their will always be the feminist do gooders in society who like to pity us prossies and think we lead such hard lives and we're all sex slaves when thats further from the truth than anything, the media dont want to believe in the happy prostitute so like to scare everyone with the trafficking stories and isnt helped by all the over inflated facts and figures released by politicians about the issues.

And no the police dont have the resources at all to be wandering the streets every night looking for kerb crawlers, although one of the top agencies in UK is run by an ex copper so i guess he found more than enough resources to tackle his issue.

Offline smiths

If that did happen it certainly would not stop me punting, it would stop me voting labour ever. 'Smiths' I know it's a bit late for this but will things every change in your opinion will there come a time when progress is made. I think in how gay rights has come on in the last 20 years or so. It just seems so futile to try to be anti something that has been around for so long.

Blunkett was all ready to legislate so i read when he was Home Secretary, the problem was people like Harridan. Blairs government were the ones that brought in the R18 porn film certificate and they made a pragmatic decision that they couldnt stop net porn so would try to regulate what they found acceptable so at that time anything was possible. Sadly it obviously didnt happen with prostitution, i have no doubt that legalisation would mean much higher prices for punters simply on my logic that anything government gets it snout in ends up costing us more, and if we followed a model like in areas of New Zealand it would be officially only covered services like OW due to health and safety, yes punting would be within their remit. :D

The positives would be less scumbag pimps as those that existed would be CRB checked and monitored, all adding to our costs of course. WGs being able to work together legally and in theory no underage, coerced or trafficked WGs. However, as it is now a WG can come and go without leaving a trace, no doubt that wouldnt be an option as WGs would have to register.

So it could happen in my view but no idea when and in reality no new laws actually need passing as there are more than enough existing ones. Its just the police in many areas choose not to enforce those laws around brothels and the street scene. And in my view the same would occur with criminalising all punters, many police areas wouldnt enforce the law as they couldnt afford to or the top cops chose not to. In addition the police prostitution lead, Armitt stated he didnt see a problem with consenting adults having sex in private off-street, that to me means he sees no problem with Indies and their punters punting in private.

Of course as i posted previously if Harridan gets back in and has the power to do so i have no doubt she will continue her crusade, to her its girl power to criminalise us filthy scumbags. The Tories have stated they have no present plans to introduce new laws, of course they could easily bring something in though at any time.

And i would imagine overall decriminalisation is more likely then legalisation, to me that would be easier to pass, but at present we are light years from either option. I cant see it being something that will have much public support due to the skewed media perception portrayed, i also cant see many MPs standing up to say they wanted to see prostitution with willing WGs off-street in brothels legalised or decriminalised as things are now.

Because many WGs and punters for obvious reasons wish to keep it a secret this suits the antis of course who can say what they like with relatively little comeback, Belle De Jour aka Dr Magnanti and the prostitutes collective do some media work but its a small number compared to the antis. What i call an uphill fight. ;)

Offline smiths

The minute they decide to criminalise prostitution is when all the trouble will begin again e.g. dodgy run brothels, girls working the streets, less WG's paying tax (not that many do), more likelihood of trafficking etc. More touble than it'l be worth, their will always be the feminist do gooders in society who like to pity us prossies and think we lead such hard lives and we're all sex slaves when thats further from the truth than anything, the media dont want to believe in the happy prostitute so like to scare everyone with the trafficking stories and isnt helped by all the over inflated facts and figures released by politicians about the issues.

And no the police dont have the resources at all to be wandering the streets every night looking for kerb crawlers, although one of the top agencies in UK is run by an ex copper so i guess he found more than enough resources to tackle his issue.

I assume you mean criminalise punters as thats whats on the agenda, no one has proposed criminalising Indies or WGs that work in brothels as long as they dont actively help run them by answering the phone for example.

The problem is the feminist anti lobby is very powerful and vocal, they have a lot of media support or parts of the media are shit scared of them so dont challenge them. All this leads to it being a mainly one-sided debate sadly. If i had to bet i would bet if Labour and Harridan get back in with a clear majority she will succeed in getting a law that criminalises punters. Like with her coercion law it will be primarily to scare punters off punting in the first place and no doubt it will scare some off who see the risk not worth taking. The police would largely ignore it though i believe but can wheel it out when it suits them of course.

As to the ex-copper if you mean Divine he has proudly posted about being ex-police many times on auto-censored before he stormed off.

Trafficking is something I think I over worry about. For that reason I only see British girls. It's a bit like buying free range eggs for the peace of mind. That said I have seen a few British girls who definitely don't like what there doing.

Offline Jimmyredcab

Trafficking is something I think I over worry about. For that reason I only see British girls. It's a bit like buying free range eggs for the peace of mind. That said I have seen a few British girls who definitely don't like what there doing.

I think we are expecting too much for prostitutes to enjoy what they are doing, I am an old bastard, how can I expect a pretty 20 year old girl to enjoy the experience of me fucking her.  :unknown:

All I ask for is a good actress, someone who pretends she is not totally repulsed.

Just for the record, I don't really like driving my cab ------------ but it is my living.     :hi:

Offline pierrot

Trafficking is something I think I over worry about. For that reason I only see British girls. It's a bit like buying free range eggs for the peace of mind. That said I have seen a few British girls who definitely don't like what there doing.

Ditto.

Offline DRJ

Yes I am concerned, so I only see British independent working girls.

Offline NIK

I think we are expecting too much for prostitutes to enjoy what they are doing, I am an old bastard, how can I expect a pretty 20 year old girl to enjoy the experience of me fucking her.  :unknown:

All I ask for is a good actress, someone who pretends she is not totally repulsed.

Just for the record, I don't really like driving my cab ------------ but it is my living.     :hi:

Great post Jim! Totally agree with it both about work and girls' attitudes.

As for 'trafficking' I couldn't give a fuck about it.  There are plenty of other people such as the feminist Harriet Harman, the jailed Dennis Macshane and the barmy Cactus Jack to worry about this exaggerated problem rather than me.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 12:03:44 AM by NIK »

Offline ulander

Without wishing to be unkind, I think it's a slightly silly question.  Yes, of course I'm concerned about human trafficking, in the same way as I'm concerned about murder and inflation.  I can't do anything about murder or inflation, except to try as best I can (without getting too paranoid about it) to avoid being murdered and as for inflation, to try to manage my financial affairs so as to take account of it.  But I don't lie awake at night worrying about murder or inflation.  As for human trafficking, I avoid situations where there's the remotest chance that I'm going to be punting with someone who is trafficked or pimped.  I only see indies.  I know that some who represent themselves as indies are pimped.  But after years of punting and without wanting to sound complacent, I am reasonably confident that all the people I see are doing what they do because they choose to.  In short, like NIK, I couldn't give a fuck about it.

Offline vorian

Without wishing to be unkind, I think it's a slightly silly question.  Yes, of course I'm concerned about human trafficking, in the same way as I'm concerned about murder and inflation.  I can't do anything about murder or inflation, except to try as best I can (without getting too paranoid about it) to avoid being murdered and as for inflation, to try to manage my financial affairs so as to take account of it.  But I don't lie awake at night worrying about murder or inflation.  As for human trafficking, I avoid situations where there's the remotest chance that I'm going to be punting with someone who is trafficked or pimped.  I only see indies.  I know that some who represent themselves as indies are pimped.  But after years of punting and without wanting to sound complacent, I am reasonably confident that all the people I see are doing what they do because they choose to.  In short, like NIK, I couldn't give a fuck about it.

Agree with your post totally.
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Offline smiths

On the point of EXACTLY what comes under Trafficking and breaking the law someone with better legal knowledge than me would have to post.

IMO it cant be trafficking if a WG comes here off her own back unaided and then links up with a pimp she wasnt aware of before she came here of course. If she was aware of the pimp and specifically travelled even unaided to work for the pimp or at least agreed to give the pimp an agreed cut of her fees voluntarily that might technically constitute trafficking but i am not clear whether it does or not. A pimp transporting the WG from one work location to another within the UK could technically result in a charge of trafficking. If no force or bonds are involved and the WG got in legally then i view that as her business if she decides to work for a pimp or gets work off a pimp, its the pimp not her thats breaking the law.

Its those that arrange any trafficking and/or use force to make a woman become a WG against her free will that i wish to see prosecuted and if convicted sent to prison for a mandatory life sentence, i include cases where the woman voluntarily agrees to be trafficked whether on a bond or not.


I do worry about levels of trafficking and I think the level of the problem depends on the area you are in. I tend to stick to independant British girls in the mid price range. It costs more per punt and restricts my range of girls but I personally feel that it keeps me saferand means I am not contributing to the proffits of the traffickers. By paying for good quality homegrown produce there is less demand for cheap foreign imports :D

Sadly the subject of prostitution is still rather taboo in this country and a lot of people are very naive about the laws surrounding it. Like with most things in life you have to do your research and then make your choices.

Prostitution is not illegal but to control a prostitute for financial gain is so Pimps are in breach of the law. Trafficking is a whole other matter though and usually implies that the girls are brought to this country and forced to work as prostitutes against their will which is utterly unacceptable. You probably won't be able to tell which girls are being trafficked, a lot of them don't speak much english so they won't be able to tell you and they are so scared of their traffickers that they dare not provide a poor performance for fear of the consequences.

The law also has some strange quirks that can confuse people, for example, it is illegal to run a brothel, however it is perfectly legal to be a prostitute working in a brothel as long as you do not assist in the management of the establishment and it is also perfectly legal to be a paying customer at a brothel. Most people believe that visiting a brothel will get them arrested but it wont. It is illegal to pay anyone under the age of 18 for sex, however once above the age of consent there is no age limit on being a client of sexual services.


Again, you have to do your homework and know your rights.

Offline tazz

Just been reading about a women who was forced to work as a prossie for these traffickers who have just been handed a 6 year prison sentance. Cant imagine anyone being forced into this will ever provide anything but a crap service and wont it be obvious theres something wrong. Also dont get why more of these women dont ask punters for help.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/sex-gang-victim-escapes-six-years-of-exploitation-to-see-captors-jailed-10395708.html


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