Sandy's Superstars court case

[con-a-ser]

Some facts

The girls had to pay for a minimum of 8 hours rent on a room per day = £320 even if they didn't have punters
If they took lunch they paid for the time lost £20 if they had a half hour break
At the end of the shift every girl paid about £100 or more to cover runner and receptionist costs
They were fined if they were late. or left early
If they didn't make SS enough money they were fired

They took around 50% of a girls earnings and they still had the cheek to launder money and avoid tax !!!!

In Sandys the punter paid £20 to reception on a half hour booking so if the had 16 bookings the customers would pay £320 not the girl
The girl then normally got paid £30+ in the room which would be £480 + most paid £40 inc owo so the girls would be making £640 +

So yes I can see your point of view Mike but it gets burried in your lets have a dig at SS every chance you get
but the money handed to reception was never the girls

Look the girls said the working conditions where strict but the booking system was on time & we all had the choice to visit or not

the above figure are based on Mike s figure of £320 & 8 hr fully booked shift

[thefoxman]

OMG - I now realise I did know some members of that family a while ago (not that well though)

[Moby Dick]

In Sandys the punter paid £20 to reception on a half hour booking so if the had 16 bookings the customers would pay £320 not the girl
The girl then normally got paid £30+ in the room which would be £480 + most paid £40 inc owo so the girls would be making £640 +

So yes I can see your point of view Mike but it gets burried in your lets have a dig at SS every chance you get
but the money handed to reception was never the girls

Look the girls said the working conditions where strict but the booking system was on time & we all had the choice to visit or not

the above figure are based on Mike s figure of £320 & 8 hr fully booked shift

The girls did have to pay a set fee for the receptionist and the runner regardless of how many clients they had.
Not sure about paying rent for the room on top of the £20 paid by punter to reception. First I have heard, but wouldn't be surprised if they had to pay more.

[VOLPONE]

In Sandys the punter paid £20 to reception on a half hour booking so if the had 16 bookings the customers would pay £320 not the girl
The girl then normally got paid £30+ in the room which would be £480 + most paid £40 inc owo so the girls would be making £640 +

Don't forget the runners money they had to pay plus the compulsory donation to r e d l i n e ex bent coppers .....what was that ? £30 per girl per shift? FFS if that was 'protection' money it wasn't very effective was it? They should all get a refund !

[Mikeh38]

Let's say a girl had five hours of bookings in a day, ss would have got £200, paid by the punter to the receptionist, the girl would then have to give ss £120 out of her own pocket as she agreed to rent the room for eight hours.
Also she would still have to pay the runner receptionist costs at the end of the shift

[Blackpool Rock]

Don't forget the runners money they had to pay plus the compulsory donation to r e d l i n e ex bent coppers .....what was that ? £30 per girl per shift? FFS if that was 'protection' money it wasn't very effective was it? They should all get a refund !

Yeah I wonder if there are any coppers or other authority figures who are currently sitting uncomfortably awaiting what gets dragged through the court

[con-a-ser]

Let's say a girl had five hours of bookings in a day, ss would have got £200, paid by the punter to the receptionist, the girl would then have to give ss £120 out of her own pocket as she agreed to rent the room for eight hours.
Also she would still have to pay the runner receptionist costs at the end of the shift

& this info as come from who
I have spoke tro a few & they never mentoned make up money just of bookings

Yes the runner & reception where tipped based on number of customers they had seen & charges for anytrhing else they purchased on site rather than bringing with them

[RadioKid]

Yeah I wonder if there are any coppers or other authority figures who are currently sitting uncomfortably awaiting what gets dragged through the court

Somebody will have to be accountable as to why they were able to operate for so long.

[crazylicker]

They'll all get sent down. The police know what they are doing, they are clever and will push the right prosecutions.

Are you sure?!!!

[McSwell]

If anyone gets sent down I guess it maybe the main directors  Sandy and her husband and Adrian Burch.

If the POCA can recover a lot of money I dont really see the point in any of them doing time, it's not as if they are a threat to society  and its very unlikely they would start another parlour.

The only point in a jail term would be to deter others from opening a parlour but on the grounds that police turn a blind eye to parlours there doesn't seem to be any point.


Going back the list of names I must admit I had a wry smile about Sandy's daughters boyfriend.   I bet he thought he was in a good thing.
 I'd seen her working as a runner and I guess like most punters I would happily have coughed up £100 to get her in the room for an hour.    Not only was this jammy beggar shagging her for nothing but her mum was pumping wads of cash through his business. His bubble will be well and truly popped now. !!!

[Horizontal pleasures]

I hope someone on here from Manchester region will post the news when it comes as I am interested but not near enough to get the MEN. Thanks
HP in exile from Lancs.

[Goldfinch]

I hope someone on here from Manchester region will post the news when it comes as I am interested but not near enough to get the MEN. Thanks
HP in exile from Lancs.

Will do-when any info is available,it'll put on this thread. :

[george r]

External Link/Members Only

 I read it online 

[Duke of Earl]

Some facts

The girls had to pay for a minimum of 8 hours rent on a room per day = £320 even if they didn't have punters
If they took lunch they paid for the time lost £20 if they had a half hour break
At the end of the shift every girl paid about £100 or more to cover runner and receptionist costs
They were fined if they were late. or left early
If they didn't make SS enough money they were fired

They took around 50% of a girls earnings and they still had the cheek to launder money and avoid tax !!!!

I’ve no idea what money was going to whom, but this doesn’t sound implausible to me.

Assuming this isn’t a million miles off the mark, I’m not surprised the girls weren’t happy when Sandys put a ban on OWO following the stories of the gonorrhoea outbreak. It would of cut their earnings by about a third.

It is a pretty effective pricing structure from the parlour having so much leverage in the girls  earnings. If you weren’t close to being fully booked you wouldn’t be making very much so the girls knew they needed to keep the punters coming back by delivering a good service.

[TomTank]

I have no clue if the £320 is true or not, but I have heard girls got moved on if their bookings dropped below 16 a day (maybe less if some were 60 min bookings)

[Mikeh38]

I have no clue if the £320 is true or not, but I have heard girls got moved on if their bookings dropped below 16 a day (maybe less if some were 60 min bookings)

16 bookings equates to eight hours, which is the minimum SS required. The thing that shocked me the most ( and I never went back there after I heard it) was that after taking forty percent they then asked the girls to pay the staff wages etc at the end of the shift.  Disgusting in my eyes 

[lewisjones23]

16 bookings equates to eight hours, which is the minimum SS required. The thing that shocked me the most ( and I never went back there after I heard it) was that after taking forty percent they then asked the girls to pay the staff wages etc at the end of the shift.  Disgusting in my eyes 

the girls were always free to work somewhere else if they didnt like it ....

[McSwell]

the girls were always free to work somewhere else if they didnt like it ....

Some did, I recall I'd seen at Haleys who told she was moving to SS but a week later she was back at Haleys.
It was too intense for her.
Quite a few of the new girls didnt stick it

Some other girls would just do short spells then take a break because it was too much for them.
The girls where under a lot of pressure there but some of them thrived on it and made good money in the process

[HKS15]

They also prevented girls from working anywhere else in Manchester, which is fucking disgusting as well in my opinion, wonder if that will come up in court, they controlled the girls outside of their brothels as well as in. Adrian Burch then had the gall to claim on the other forum that their girls were 'self-employed'.

One particularly disgusting incident which always pops into my mind was their treatment of Madison, who Sandy sacked for taking pics of herself in the mirrors and posting them on her Twitter, no warning, just sacked straight away after years of working there. Every girl I spoke to about the management essentially alluded to Sandy ruling with an iron fist, seemed to me as though they only tolerated her shit as they couldn't earn as much at any other parlour.

Horrible people.

[tesla]

16 bookings equates to eight hours, which is the minimum SS required. The thing that shocked me the most ( and I never went back there after I heard it) was that after taking forty percent they then asked the girls to pay the staff wages etc at the end of the shift.  Disgusting in my eyes 

I think the girls paying staff out of their earnings is quite common in most parlours, plus a tip if they had a good day

[charliejack]

Out of a £40 parlour punt what is typically the WGs cut ?
I presume they keep all the extras

[Corus Boy]

He's referred to in the article as Christopher Hankin, Mark is his middle name.

I'm actually surprised to hear that the whole Hankin family were involved, looks like everyone was laundering money for Sandy, even her daughter's horse trainer boyfriend. What utter slimeballs they are, they tried to present themselves as a 'whiter than white' professional business who cared about the girls and all along they were laundering money. Hope they all get long sentences and a full POCA is applied.

I know nothing about Sandy's, the owners or the staff.

But it was a brothel, I imagine handling a large volumne of cash.

I would think that they had no option but to 'launder' it.

[dubs]

I wonder if it was Claudia getting busted that led the cops to Sandys.  "Follow the money" as they say in the force.

[TomTank]

I wonder if it was Claudia getting busted that led the cops to Sandys.  "Follow the money" as they say in the force.

I'm pretty sure I heard something about them being surprised at the value of a house a Sandy's girl owned, and that led them there .... could have been Claudia

[McSwell]

I wonder if it was Claudia getting busted that led the cops to Sandys.  "Follow the money" as they say in the force.

It seems more than likely.
A few months before the raid it was in the papers that POCA were alleging she had made all her money from drugs.
If by way of defence she told them how much she'd made at Sandys it most probably set alarm bells ringing

[McSwell]

Out of a £40 parlour punt what is typically the WGs cut ?
I presume they keep all the extras

It  used to be £50 at Sandys, £20 to reception then £30 + extras to the girl

[lewisjones23]

It seems more than likely.
A few months before the raid it was in the papers that POCA were alleging she had made all her money from drugs.
If by way of defence she told them how much she'd made at Sandys it most probably set alarm bells ringing

any links?

[McSwell]

any links?

It was in the Manchester evening news about September last year.
It was something about being caught with a cannabis plant in her garage and she claimed her boyfriend had put it there while she was on holiday in America.
She got done for being in possession of drugs and because she had a lot of cash and I think some properties  they accused her of selling the stuff.

Ps  just found link to  Daily Mail report,
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The manchester evening news had more detail

[dubs]

any links?

Mortgage scam - External Link/Members Only

Weed farming - External Link/Members Only

[george r]

more like 45 grand a year working at SS ?

[Marcusred88]

I was under the impression that all of the girls paid NI and tax on a paye band? At least that’s what they told me! (I ended up mates and dating a few of the girls back in the day) Still mad as hell to see what’s happened to them all.

[Blackpool Rock]

I was under the impression that all of the girls paid NI and tax on a paye band? At least that’s what they told me! (I ended up mates and dating a few of the girls back in the day) Still mad as hell to see what’s happened to them all.

Sounds like BS on so many levels 

[McSwell]

I was under the impression that all of the girls paid NI and tax on a paye band? At least that’s what they told me! (I ended up mates and dating a few of the girls back in the day) Still mad as hell to see what’s happened to them all.

I was given to understand thag they were all self employed and Sandy put them in touch with an accountant to help them but having said that at upto maybe a about 7 or 8 year ago the punter paid the full  £50 for 30 mins on reception and just paid the girl for extras.
Then they introduced a system of just paying the £20 room fee to reception so maybe prior to that the girlsmay have been employed and on PAYE  & NIC.
If i recall around the same time there was a change in the law re  "controling" working girls so i always assumed that was the reason for the change.

[Tallchris]

Had many a good punt 2004-2007 at sandy's when working in  Manchester. These places need to be legalized in this country.

[VOLPONE]

These places need to be legalized in this country.

Would make zero difference to the circumstances of this case.Money laundering and tax evasion on an industrial scale by the pimps and their extended families.
Will be fascinating to see if those behind the parlour Sandy  worked the rooms in which subsequently transferred into her name (Prestwich branch) are implicated or if they kept their noses clean?

[tesla]

Would make zero difference to the circumstances of this case.Money laundering and tax evasion on an industrial scale by the pimps and their extended families.
Will be fascinating to see if those behind the parlour Sandy  worked the rooms in which subsequently transferred into her name (Prestwich branch) are implicated or if they kept their noses clean?

are you referring to Co-co's?

[McSwell]

Had many a good punt 2004-2007 at sandy's when working in  Manchester. These places need to be legalized in this country.

Agreed. Regardless of what was going on behind the scenes  purely from a punters point of view it was an ideal set up, the only real criticism would be that sometimes it was too busy and I think most businesses would like that problem.

If ever parlours were going yo be legalized Sandy's would have  been an Ideal  model.
Unfortunately in the current climate we are further away than ever of legalising parlours

[VOLPONE]

are you referring to Co-co's?

Yes,that's what the brothel in what became the SS Prestwich branch was called.

[dubs]

Agreed. Regardless of what was going on behind the scenes  purely from a punters point of view it was an ideal set up, the only real criticism would be that sometimes it was too busy and I think most businesses would like that problem.

Yes, you sometimes had to phone 2 days in advance  at 9:30:01 to get a booking with some girls.

[Beamer]

Would make zero difference to the circumstances of this case.Money laundering and tax evasion on an industrial scale by the pimps and their extended families.
Will be fascinating to see if those behind the parlour Sandy  worked the rooms in which subsequently transferred into her name (Prestwich branch) are implicated or if they kept their noses clean?

Seems like the only thing not yet mentioned is trafficking? Or is that included as well?

[con-a-ser]

They also prevented girls from working anywhere else in Manchester, which is fucking disgusting as well in my opinion, wonder if that will come up in court, they controlled the girls outside of their brothels as well as in. Adrian Burch then had the gall to claim on the other forum that their girls were 'self-employed'.
Horrible people.

Yes what evil twats they are
Right in the real world & places we work we all have rules to follow even those in the building trade working 714 (this seems to be close to the working conditions in form of rules & not saying any of the girls there had a builders arse)

Chippy goes on site & will see lots of signs 
Hard hats must be worn , Speed limit on site no smoking etc
Hidden Image/Members Only

THe Chippy basically signs a contract saying he will abide by the rules if he works on that site
So SS was the same
No smoking
No Camera's
& I assume the working exclusively at SS withing the area was what the girls accepted prior to working there
So don't cry if you get caught

One particularly disgusting incident which always pops into my mind was their treatment of Madison, who Sandy sacked for taking pics of herself in the mirrors and posting them on her Twitter, no warning, just sacked straight away after years of working there. Every girl I spoke to about the management essentially alluded to Sandy ruling with an iron fist, seemed to me as though they only tolerated her shit as they couldn't earn as much at any other parlour.

So what the no camera signs in reception & every rooms where not there on the day or did she just think it didn't apply to her
Also heard there was a customer involved of one of the other girls & I seem to recall this came in to force after someone tipped of the News of the world over a certain Britians got tallent contestant sister working there & the young lady been outed (allegedly by a customer she told but could quite easy been another girl)

But it is nice to see how the sandy fan boys have turned on them, Saying that I will hold my hands up after sulking & boycotted the place for a number of years

[McSwell]

Re the "Madison" incident it was the wrong thing to do at the wrong time.
Prior tto that time a few of the girls would allow punters to take a naughty pic in the room  for an extra fee.
The management banned all photographs because they didn't want any photographic evidence of what happened in the room.

(I'm only going from what different girls said at the time. Normally i would take what they say with a pinch of salt but this did seem to be true)

Shortly after the rule came in force Madison took some selfies in the room and put them on Twitter so  I guess they had no choice but to pot her.
I remember seeing her comments on twitter at the time where she admitted it was her fault and a daft thing to do.
Anyway she seems to be doing well for herself as an Indie so its turned out well for her.

[HKS15]

Yes what evil twats they are
Right in the real world & places we work we all have rules to follow even those in the building trade working 714 (this seems to be close to the working conditions in form of rules & not saying any of the girls there had a builders arse)

Chippy goes on site & will see lots of signs 
Hard hats must be worn , Speed limit on site no smoking etc
Hidden Image/Members Only

THe Chippy basically signs a contract saying he will abide by the rules if he works on that site
So SS was the same
No smoking
No Camera's
& I assume the working exclusively at SS withing the area was what the girls accepted prior to working there
So don't cry if you get caught

So what the no camera signs in reception & every rooms where not there on the day or did she just think it didn't apply to her
Also heard there was a customer involved of one of the other girls & I seem to recall this came in to force after someone tipped of the News of the world over a certain Britians got tallent contestant sister working there & the young lady been outed (allegedly by a customer she told but could quite easy been another girl)

But it is nice to see how the sandy fan boys have turned on them, Saying that I will hold my hands up after sulking & boycotted the place for a number of years

Hidden Image/Members Only

[Pk44]

Quite a few getting outraged over industry standard practice on this thread   

Most parlours and agencies have fairly strict rules and dismiss girls who break them. WGs tend to be chaotic and dishonest and the whole thing goes to shit if you let them start getting away with stuff. Running a parlour is not a job for the soft hearted.

The split between girls and parlours is a bit of a red herring. Girls are interested in maximising their earnings. Good girls who could cope with the pace could earn 1200 a week for a couple of days work. There aren't many other places in this industry where you can do that. Even a £100 an hour escort is probably going to have to be available for work more than 2 days to get that level of earning and there would be good and bad weeks.

Personally, I don't think running a parlour would be for me, but if I did run one, I'd be living modestly and getting the money hidden off shore somewhere so POCA couldn't get it. All good things must come to an end, and I'd be looking to get enough stashed away to retire to Thailand when I'd done my time.

[NigelF]

Would make zero difference to the circumstances of this case.Money laundering and tax evasion on an industrial scale by the pimps and their extended families.
Will be fascinating to see if those behind the parlour Sandy  worked the rooms in which subsequently transferred into her name (Prestwich branch) are implicated or if they kept their noses clean?

I know the MEN is hardly a great source and they probably didn't list all the charges but where have they been charged with tax evasion? As far as I can see from this link (a better one would be appreciated): External Link/Members Only
It's just money laundering (or conspiring to launder money) and brothel-keeping that they've been charged with. I'm under the impression that they only define it as money laundering because the money came from an illegal/illegitimate source, i.e. their brothels.

I can't see any evidence that they've been laundering money from any other illegal sources (i.e. not brothels) or that they've been evading tax (as I was under the impression that money laundering usually means they pay more tax albeit from incorrectly declared illegal income). Of course technically they weren't paying the correct tax but I suppose there isn't a "correct tax" on illegal income. At least they were trying to pay tax on their income?

I'm happy to be corrected though. My understanding of this subject and the background to this case is obviously limited.

[smiths]

I know the MEN is hardly a great source and they probably didn't list all the charges but where have they been charged with tax evasion? As far as I can see from this link (a better one would be appreciated): External Link/Members Only
It's just money laundering (or conspiring to launder money) and brothel-keeping that they've been charged with. I'm under the impression that they only define it as money laundering because the money came from an illegal/illegitimate source, i.e. their brothels.

I can't see any evidence that they've been laundering money from any other illegal sources (i.e. not brothels) or that they've been evading tax (as I was under the impression that money laundering usually means they pay more tax albeit from incorrectly declared illegal income). Of course technically they weren't paying the correct tax but I suppose there isn't a "correct tax" on illegal income. At least they were trying to pay tax on their income?

I'm happy to be corrected though. My understanding of this subject and the background to this case is obviously limited.

What can sometimes happen is HMRC and/or POCA get involved after the primary charges and trial is finished with. So the brothel keeping and money laundering charges are decided and they decide what to do after that.

In the case of brothels the process is washing punters cash with legit cash and a way to do this is through a legit business where the correct tax has been paid and the pimps look on the surface to be legit. I assume due to how long Sandys had been operating its millions of pounds that has gone through the pimps hands, if the police then CPS have proved this kind of money I would be surprised if POCA and maybe HMRC didn't take an interest. It would then be a case of locating cash and assets bought from this illegal money, and that would come down to how smart the pimps have been over the years.

I doubt Sandys were registered for tax and if they were they certainly wouldn't of been declaring anywhere near what they took in cash as the tax owed would of been a lot and a lot attracts official interest and that's the rub with an illegal business. Yes HMRC will take money from one but it also puts the crook on the system. What the owner of GP parties did was spend the bulk of what he made over about 8 years operating, his POCA was just £100,000 but then he wasn't known for his brain power which was why he was a pimp leeching off WGs to make a buck.

[NigelF]

What can sometimes happen is HMRC and/or POCA get involved after the primary charges and trial is finished with. So the brothel keeping and money laundering charges are decided and they decide what to do after that.

In the case of brothels the process is washing punters cash with legit cash and a way to do this is through a legit business where the correct tax has been paid and the pimps look on the surface to be legit. I assume due to how long Sandys had been operating its millions of pounds that has gone through the pimps hands, if the police then CPS have proved this kind of money I would be surprised if POCA and maybe HMRC didn't take an interest. It would then be a case of locating cash and assets bought from this illegal money, and that would come down to how smart the pimps have been over the years.

I doubt Sandys were registered for tax and if they were they certainly wouldn't of been declaring anywhere near what they took in cash as the tax owed would of been a lot and a lot attracts official interest and that's the rub with an illegal business. Yes HMRC will take money from one but it also puts the crook on the system. What the owner of GP parties did was spend the bulk of what he made over about 8 years operating, his POCA was just £100,000 but then he wasn't known for his brain power which was why he was a pimp leeching off WGs to make a buck.

Ah OK, that makes sense. Any tax evasion or proceeds of crime stuff can only be properly done afterwards because those charges would be predicated on them being convicted of actually running the brothels and money laundering in the first place. I thought it would have all been part of the same trial (of course with the brothel keeping and money laundering stuff done first) but it makes sense that it could be done in a second trial (not least because the first one will probably be rather long).

Cheers for the insight.

[alidoodle]

Ahhh miss Claudia she was and still is the only girl I put my fist up her ass.. unbelievable dirty

[Northerndave666]

Ahhh miss Claudia she was and still is the only girl I put my fist up her ass.. unbelievable dirty

Something to tell the grandkids 

[HKS15]

Found this on Law Pages. Looks like this isn't the main trial and things aren't going to be concluded until January 2019, maybe someone who is clued up on how the court system works could enlighten us?

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