Author Topic: Letter about escorts  (Read 3886 times)

Offline jseop109

I noticed this letter the other day to Rachel Johnson's advice column. It struck a chord with me, and I suspect many of us would be in a similar situation. I thought Johnson's reply was fair. She couldn't go so far as to say "Good for you, go for it!" - I doubt the editors would allow her to do that -  but is not at all condemning as, for example, Hadley Freeman and Julie Bindel.

It seems to be behind a paywall, so I have cut and pasted the relevant bits.

-------------------------------

Dear Rachel,

We live in a semi-rural part of the West Midlands and enjoy country walks with our black labradors. I work as a solicitor advising on corporate law. It’s all pretty idyllic. However, within five years of marriage my wife appeared to decide that sex was something that I was now supposed to “provide” in a satisfactory manner on a once-a-week basis with the minimum of involvement from her. This gradually tailed off to the point that we have not had sex for the past seven years or more and my wife will happily tell friends that we have no sex drive at our age for which she is grateful.

I, however, do have a healthily active sex drive, and when marital sex became such a chore 25 years ago, I had a decision to make. On average I visit an escort for an hour or two every two to three weeks and have done so for 25 years. My ideal escort will be late 20s to early 40s and I have mostly fantastic sex with gorgeous women. I am very careful to avoid anyone who has been trafficked and I tend to have a series of regulars. I make sure I am regularly tested for STIs and have never tested positive – which is probably very lucky, although I try to be careful. I would have preferred to have a great sexual relationship with my wife but this was not to be and we both may have been much less happy than we are.

My question to you this: is what I have done necessarily wrong? I am regularly hearing extreme whinges from male friends about the state of their relationships, wishing they were not married and mourning the past but having no outlet.

– Anon

Dear Anon,

I picked your letter as it came in the wake of a storm over an article in the Spectator. Lloyd Evans, the magazine’s theatre critic, wrote that he’d attended a house of ill repute in Cambridge, had a satisfactory 17-minute “brisk workout” with an obliging prostitute, got dressed, paid online and then left.

Mischief-makers misinterpreted his piece. They said the visit to the brothel was occasioned by the writer’s unbridled desire for a blonde and attractive academic he’d heard lecture earlier that day, and he’d had to pay an impromptu call on a prostitute to relieve himself – even though Evans made clear the session was pre-booked. Which brings us to you. I’m sure you harbour some feelings of guilt about the arrangements you have made that are preserving at least the façade of marital unity, if not harmony. But exchanging money for sexual services is legal in this country (soliciting on the street isn’t, so be aware of what’s allowed) and one in 10 men have done exactly what you are doing. I’m sure many husbands whose wives have shut up shop or sigh, “Okay, as long as you’re quick and I can carry on reading” will envy your enterprise. Especially as you say it brings you “fantastic sex with gorgeous women”, who no doubt spice things up a bit compared to the limited repertoire of the long-married trad-wife.

A quick trawl of my friendship group proved the fizz has gone out of the bottle too, and apart from a brief ro-ro (roll-on, roll-off) or the traditional position known in our house as “dead maid”, they were not all very up for what I call “event sex”. So, in answer to your question, from your point of view, what’s not to like? You are paying for a service. I can’t speak for the service provider, but I will say this. Many feminists, among them Julie Bindel and Hadley Freeman, think that what you’re doing is not that different from rape, and call themselves Swerfs – sex worker exclusionary radical feminists. And many men with pride would shudder at the idea of paying a woman to pretend to enjoy congress with them, or the premium service of “the girlfriend experience” (where she pretends to really like you too). They cannot kid themselves that the woman isn’t doing it for the money, she’s even actually enjoying it, and enter the suspension of disbelief that other men can achieve.

Then of course there are the men who don’t imagine the woman is enjoying the experience, but don’t give a damn. After all, as someone once said, “I don’t pay them for carnal encounters – I pay them to leave.” As you write, you decided not to have children and your wife loves walking your black labs in the West Midlands countryside, while you have hookers on the side. Sounds idyllic, in its way, I suppose. But ask yourself this: would you really want any daughter or niece or granddaughter of yours to say, “When I grow up I want to be a sex worker”?

Offline MissWolf

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Service Provider
  • Posts: 402
  • Likes: 290
  •  
Cracking letter and absolutely cracking response,  I'm going to say the last bit was likely something she felt obliged to include but it's not unwarranted or untrue.

I would be delighted to see more sensible and somewhat forthright replies like this or articles like this in the press, well done that woman  :hi:
« Last Edit: May 12, 2024, 09:59:04 am by MissWolf »

Offline akauya

I don't particularly like Rachel Johnson but kudos to her for that answer; well balanced and to the point.

The only bit I don't agree with is the "one in 10 men" have seen prostitutes. I've seen that figure bandied about a lot and I don't know where it comes from, but I'm guessing it's way too low. My guesstimate would be more like four in 10 men.

Online pbrown355

The often repeated "would you like your daughter to be a sex worker?" is at least disingenuous. There are lots of jobs/careers I would not like my daughter to take up but it's not up to me is it? Whatever your kids do for a job I assume most of us want them to be happy and fulfilled doing it (sometimes a big ask) and make a decent living. If sex work filled those criteria for my child I'd accept it as none of my business, the same as the many other jobs I wouldn't choose for them if it was up to me.
Good spot of the article and thanks for posting.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2024, 10:25:39 am by pbrown355 »

Offline Doc Holliday

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,066
  • Likes: 299
  •  
  • Reviews: 5
I don't particularly like Rachel Johnson but kudos to her for that answer; well balanced and to the point.

The only bit I don't agree with is the "one in 10 men" have seen prostitutes. I've seen that figure bandied about a lot and I don't know where it comes from, but I'm guessing it's way too low. My guesstimate would be more like four in 10 men.

The figure is derived primarily from the National Survey of Sexual Attitudes and Lifestyles produced every 10 years. The  data is based on NATSAL 3 which was published around 2011/12. NATSAL 4 was delayed due to Covid and I am not sure of when that is due to be published. There is a summary of the data here External Link/Members Only which quotes a figure of 11% who have ever used a sex worker. The figure for those who had done so in the previous 5 years is actuallymuch lower and 60% who have paid for sex have done so outside of the UK.

You could dispute the accuracy of this survey but with all due respect is likely to be closer to the mark than your guesstimate  ;)


Offline jseop109

The figure is derived primarily from the National Survey of Sexual Attitudes and Lifestyles produced every 10 years. The  data is based on NATSAL 3 which was published around 2011/12. NATSAL 4 was delayed due to Covid and I am not sure of when that is due to be published. There is a summary of the data here External Link/Members Only which quotes a figure of 11% who have ever used a sex worker. The figure for those who had done so in the previous 5 years is actuallymuch lower and 60% who have paid for sex have done so outside of the UK.

You could dispute the accuracy of this survey but with all due respect is likely to be closer to the mark than your guesstimate  ;)

Well it quotes a figure for those who actually report having used a sex worker. I would guess that there are others who report that they haven't but in fact have, and if I was filling in such a survey, I would be in that category, even if the survey claimed to be anonymous.

I once tried to estimate a figure for this:

https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=380637.msg3886134#msg3886134

I came up with 14%, or to be realistic, somewhere between 10 and 20%. Total speculation of course ...

Offline Stevelondon

I have a friend  :D

I’ll talk on his behalf.
Yonks back he and his wife found themselves in that similar place. No sex between themselves for an absolute age and settled into a routine of just being happily married. Yes……. I say happy because everything else in their lives was just hunky dorry.

The day my mates wife found out he had visited a SP. (Long story not worth relating it) she simply told him what she didn’t know about she didn’t want to know about. Paying for it was fine but if he decided to get emotionally involved with anyone. Then he should have the decency to leave etc.

So long ago and both old now. He takes care of her as she’s ill and you wouldn’t find a more devoted couple.



Moral of this tale. It’s just fucking sex.

See……. True story. It can’t be me cos I’m too fucking cruel and lazy to look after anybody  :D

Offline advent2016

I noticed this letter the other day to Rachel Johnson's advice column. It struck a chord with me, and I suspect many of us would be in a similar situation. I thought Johnson's reply was fair. She couldn't go so far as to say "Good for you, go for it!" - I doubt the editors would allow her to do that -  but is not at all condemning as, for example, Hadley Freeman and Julie Bindel.

It seems to be behind a paywall, so I have cut and pasted the relevant bits.


Where is this column posted? you're about the 3rd person today not to post a link, maybe it's the magnetic storms ;)


Oh it's this
External Link/Members Only

This plug-in can help you read lots of media if you use a Chrome or Firefox type browser, even work on smartphones
External Link/Members Only


I'm a widower, one of my daughters keeps on arranging dates for me, I much prefer my current life of escorts/ massage /etc. I should write to Rachel. ;)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2024, 01:11:10 pm by advent2016 »

Offline Thephoenix

I have a friend  :D

I’ll talk on his behalf.
Yonks back he and his wife found themselves in that similar place. No sex between themselves for an absolute age and settled into a routine of just being happily married. Yes……. I say happy because everything else in their lives was just hunky dorry.

The day my mates wife found out he had visited a SP. (Long story not worth relating it) she simply told him what she didn’t know about she didn’t want to know about. Paying for it was fine but if he decided to get emotionally involved with anyone. Then he should have the decency to leave etc.

So long ago and both old now. He takes care of her as she’s ill and you wouldn’t find a more devoted couple.



Moral of this tale. It’s just fucking sex.

See……. True story. It can’t be me cos I’m too fucking cruel and lazy to look after anybody  :D

In many ways, that friend could be me. :hi:

Offline Stevelondon

In many ways, that friend could be me. :hi:


You silly old sausage. You weren’t supposed to say !!!

😀

Offline JontyR

I am amazed that there is the automatic assumption that this was a genuine letter and it was a genuine response written by RJ.

If I was someone in the real world who fitted the description of the letter writer I'd be well pissed off.

Offline jseop109

Well yes it could be fake of course.

Maybe the letter writer anonymised himself with a few fictional details. All the same, I think the the issues and conflicts were quite well  covered.   

Offline akauya

The figure is derived primarily from the National Survey of Sexual Attitudes and Lifestyles produced every 10 years. The  data is based on NATSAL 3 which was published around 2011/12. NATSAL 4 was delayed due to Covid and I am not sure of when that is due to be published. There is a summary of the data here External Link/Members Only which quotes a figure of 11% who have ever used a sex worker. The figure for those who had done so in the previous 5 years is actuallymuch lower and 60% who have paid for sex have done so outside of the UK.

You could dispute the accuracy of this survey but with all due respect is likely to be closer to the mark than your guesstimate  ;)

Cheers Doc  :hi:

Offline stampjones

The often repeated "would you like your daughter to be a sex worker?" is at least disingenuous. There are lots of jobs/careers I would not like my daughter to take up but it's not up to me is it? Whatever your kids do for a job I assume most of us want them to be happy and fulfilled doing it (sometimes a big ask) and make a decent living. If sex work filled those criteria for my child I'd accept it as none of my business, the same as the many other jobs I wouldn't choose for them if it was up to me.
Good spot of the article and thanks for posting.
Yes exactly this. Its such a crap, lazy argument

Online GreyDave

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,308
  • Likes: 79
  •  
  • Reviews: 110
Well she could of said ;   :D :D :D

Just Marry one bird after another have kids all over the place and still shag younger birds and have more kids in fact why not Shag the whole of the UK* ?

My Brother did all this for free and it still seems to be going well for him, why did you waste money on tarts?

* was paid by many to do this. :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: May 13, 2024, 08:15:07 am by GreyDave »

Offline jseop109

I am amazed that there is the automatic assumption that this was a genuine letter and it was a genuine response written by RJ.

If I was someone in the real world who fitted the description of the letter writer I'd be well pissed off.

Yes quite. I wonder how many corporate lawyers there are who live in semi-rural west midlands, have been married for 30+ years, and have black labradors ...

Offline GorillaWarfare

I am amazed that there is the automatic assumption that this was a genuine letter and it was a genuine response written by RJ.

If I was someone in the real world who fitted the description of the letter writer I'd be well pissed off.

If the letter's true, he wrote the letter to an advice column. I'd imagine he voluntarily put those details in with the expectation it may be published.

Offline Chazz

Yes quite. I wonder how many corporate lawyers there are who live in semi-rural west midlands, have been married for 30+ years, and have black labradors ...

I thought that specifying the breed of the dogs seemed unnecessary. Perhaps this is a deliberate red herring, and the author in fact owns golden retrievers!  ;)

Offline Snunzl

Ditto , read this yesterday and struck the same chord with me   :)

Offline badsin

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,610
  • Likes: 62
  •  
  • Reviews: 59
Probably a HGV driver from Dudley  :hi:

Offline GoodLookinGuy

Interesting letter and response, my take on it, if anyone is interested.

I don't buy the argument that it's no different from rape, assuming of course the lady is over 18, not being trafficked, not high on drugs or alcohol, so basically an adult making an informed choice. That is not rape by any definition I've ever seen.

The other thing is Rachel doesn't really offer any alternative. Yes of course I get being married and seeing prostitutes maybe wasn't his first choice, as he freely admits. It was his wife who made the decision to end their sex life.

So what are his options ?

1, I see Rachel's point about not having any pride etc. However something non-transactional risks bringing feelings into it and could get very messy and end the marriage.

2, Divorce, maybe the obvious answer, especially as no children. However something is keeping them together. Companionship, they probably still love each other but just not in the physical sense.

3, Simply go without. As a still relatively young man who still has a healthy appetite for sex, I don't think this is a healthy option, from a mental health point of view.

The fact he has written the letter means I assume he has wrestled with it. He has probably selected the least worst option. I wouldn't be surprised if the wife knows or at least suspects and is probably fine with it as it keeps him from bothering her for sex. Makes him happy, and probably easier to live with and saves her from having to do a 'chore' she'd rather not.

 

Offline JontyR

The often repeated "would you like your daughter to be a sex worker?" is at least disingenuous. There are lots of jobs/careers I would not like my daughter to take up but it's not up to me is it? Whatever your kids do for a job I assume most of us want them to be happy and fulfilled doing it (sometimes a big ask) and make a decent living. If sex work filled those criteria for my child I'd accept it as none of my business, the same as the many other jobs I wouldn't choose for them if it was up to me.
Good spot of the article and thanks for posting.

What really shows this argument to be bollocks in my mind is that most blokes don't like the idea of their daughter / sister / mother having sex with anyone, ever.

Every teenage lad who has been brought back to meet the girlfriend's folks has seen the look in her Dad's eyes. Do you think that look would change in any way if you were slipping her a ton every time you slipped her a length?

Online Markc

Not sure if l am reading Rachel reply right but she says they have a term in their house called ‘ dead maid sex ‘
She seems to refer to it as sex between husband and wife where the woman just lies there and the guy just pumps
away until he cums. Sounds like her sex life is fun then.

Does anyone else see it this way?

Offline PaulRuff

Banned reason: Calling members losers.
Banned by: 90125

Offline deg_dilemma

Interesting letter and response, my take on it, if anyone is interested.

I don't buy the argument that it's no different from rape, assuming of course the lady is over 18, not being trafficked, not high on drugs or alcohol, so basically an adult making an informed choice. That is not rape by any definition I've ever seen.
<snip>
 

Going by some of the encounters I've paid for recently, I'd say we are the ones being raped - at least financially!

Online LauraHoD

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Service Provider
  • Posts: 363
  • Likes: 116
  •  
Well she could of said ;   :D :D :D

Just Marry one bird after another have kids all over the place and still shag younger birds and have more kids in fact why not Shag the whole of the UK* ?

My Brother did all this for free and it still seems to be going well for him, why did you waste money on tarts?

* was paid by many to do this. :rolleyes:

I was gonna say isn't this BoJo's sister?