Have you ever got an initial false impression of a band or artist?

[Marmalade]

And this External Link/Members Only

[Baxter63]

I still have the first album on vinyl. Never did see the Sunshine film. I was in Glasgow at Commonwealth Games time and the crowd at Hampden, with Usain Bolt dancing to it, in the rain, was a great bit of watching.

As for Sunshine on Leith? - my late teens and twenties memories of Leith are of the most rough arsed place in Scotland - and I was used to the Broomielaw and the old Barraland. Leith was a slum, full of drunks, sailors, hookers, Edinburgh's usual easy-lays and Irish showbands for the music. Great fun and lived up to the 'aw fur coats and nae drawers' of Edinburgh's reputation.

Used to go through to Bungies and The Place for the all-nighters.

And the Marmalade? A Glasgow band or are you into a bit of Keiller's (Rough Cut or Smooth?).

[Marmalade]

Sunshine on Leith's a great feelgood movie, well-made on all points. English viewers may want to switch subtitles on. I suppose the title's a bit of a metaphor as I've never noticed it having more sunshine than anywhere else.

Leith in the old days was great value for SWs. Now that part is mostly gentrified neo-posh restaurants though there's one or two places still serving a pint at decent prices. Foot of Leith Walk is still a shit hole. Maybe if they flooded the place with p4ps it would eventually go upmarket the way it did with Coburg St to the Wark and later Salamander.

I see now there's a cafe called Marmalade halfway between the two historic slapper areas. Nowt to do with me. Name came from Pink Floyd.

[NIK]

Both actually. Saturday 31/10 Sky Arts at 9pm-22.30pm Long Hot Summers; The Story Of The Style Council, 22.30-23.30pm Paul Weller; May Love Travel With You a stripped back set at Londons Festival Hall, if that's half as good as his brilliant acoustic Days Of Speed live album that will be good. Then 23.30-01.15am The Story Of The Jam; About The Young Idea.

Also I see on Friday 30/10 Sky Arts are also showing the Story Of The Jam from 22.30pm followed by The Jam; Live At Rockpalast in Germany from 1980 from 00.15-01.15am.

Just completed viewing my recordings of the Jam and Style Councils docs. Enjoyed them both immensely, however my enjoyment was spoiled to a large degree by the bloody Sky Arts signal constantly breaking up again, considerably at times. Only station which seems to be doing so. I might have kept the recordings otherwise, but because of this will probably delete them.

The Jam doc reminded me that I suppose of all the bands and artists ever the Jam were truly my band of my era, more so than many of the other greats I like who were already established when I got into music.
Weller is the same age as me - actually 6 months younger, but would have been in my school year. I followed them from the beginning to the end, and like many was shocked and upset when they broke up. In later years I was actually happy when a band I like packed in, as it meant they couldn't tarnish their legacy as so many have done. Indeed, the Jam were possibly the only band who didn't spoil their legacy.
I remember every single coming out, and can recall where I was vividly when I first heard Town Called Malice. It was pretty mundane actually. One Saturday morning I was sitting with my dad at the dining table as he studied the horses, which was his Saturday morning ritual. It was just over a year before the old man passed away, and although he hated pop / rock music I will never forget him tapping his pen to the great rhythm. One of those memorable music moments. Malice still sounds fabulous all these year of over familiarity later. I tried to get tickets to a concert on their last tour, but they were so big by then it was completely sold out.

Moving on the to the Style Council and although I have a greatest hits cd they were much less familiar to me than the Jam. Although I recall every Jam video vividly as though it were yesterday, I only vaguely recall some of the earlier Style Council vids, and by the later ones I had lost a lot of interest in music generally, so they were completely unfamiliar to me.
Although I hated the SC at the time, before losing track of them totally, they did actually make some good records and were much better than I thought back then. Indeed the last few Jam singles: The Bitterest Pill, Beat Surrender and Precious, the double A side of Malice sounded as much like the SC as they did the Jam. SC were still not as good as the Jam or solo PW though.
It does seem strange even today though seeing Weller dancing and acting about in their videos, as it doesn't seem natural for someone who was perceived as quite serious.

Ultimately, what the two excellent documentaries brought home to me was how they epitomised my declining interest in music over the period, from fanatical to barely registering.

To compound my annoyance over the signal problems I also set it to record the Jam Rockpalast concert, but must have not done it properly as it didn't record.

[Marmalade]

Isn’t there something about the music one grew up with (usually in one’s teens being the ‘best ever’? Certainly I feel that way, though I also had an epiphany listening to John Peel. I don’t recall his exact words but it gave me the idea that it was the teenage angst and testosterone fuelled enthusiasm of new (indie) bands that was important and I started listening with new respect to genres I had avoided before that. I still have old favourites and still ‘believe’ they represented ‘the golden era’ — but my musical horizons have widened.

[NIK]

Isn’t there something about the music one grew up with (usually in one’s teens being the ‘best ever’? Certainly I feel that way, though I also had an epiphany listening to John Peel. I don’t recall his exact words but it gave me the idea that it was the teenage angst and testosterone fuelled enthusiasm of new (indie) bands that was important and I started listening with new respect to genres I had avoided before that. I still have old favourites and still ‘believe’ they represented ‘the golden era’ — but my musical horizons have widened.

I used to listen to Peel religiously until he started paying the most awful shite he could find.  I remember him slagging off Wishbone Ash as old hippies in his music paper review column. The same 'hippes' he had played a couple of year earlier.
Similarly Pink Floyd. I remember him playing a track off Meddle the one with the Liverpool fans singing You'll Never Walk Alone (he was a huge Liverpool fan) and then a few years later saying he wouldn't play Pink Floyd as they didn't need him to.
He had a point and his promotion of new music could be admirable, but it did mean he served up an awful amount of unlistenable shite which became progressively worse over the years.
Peel was a great radio presenter, perhaps the greatest ever, and apparently he listened to more music than any person in history  , which seems believable, but consistency was never his strong point.

[Marmalade]

I used to listen to Peel religiously until he started paying the most awful shite he could find.  I remember him slagging off Wishbone Ash as old hippies in his music paper review column. The same 'hippes' he had played a couple of year earlier.
Similarly Pink Floyd. I remember him playing a track off Meddle the one with the Liverpool fans singing You'll Never Walk Alone (he was a huge Liverpool fan) and then a few years later saying he wouldn't play Pink Floyd as they didn't need him to.
He had a point and his promotion of new music could be admirable, but it did mean he served up an awful amount of unlistenable shite which became progressively worse over the years.
Peel was a great radio presenter, perhaps the greatest ever, and apparently he listened to more music than any person in history  , which seems believable, but consistency was never his strong point.

He could be incredibly persuasive. I remember buying an album he’d played and thinking it was an amazing find only to play it twice and never again when I got it home.

But his ‘slagging off’ was true to character. He did once say that he hoped to hell he didn’t still like the same music he was playing now in ten years time.

I don’t claim to achieved that: but he lived up to his credo.

[scutty brown]

I met Peel once. I was one of three guards protecting him and his mixing desk at a university gig. Offensive foulmouthed piece of shite who made it clear to us that as far as he was concerned our only role was to let young girls get close to him - and keep everyone else away.
We never booked him again

[Marmalade]

I met Peel once. I was one of three guards protecting him and his mixing desk at a university gig. Offensive foulmouthed piece of shite who made it clear to us that as far as he was concerned our only role was to let young girls get close to him - and keep everyone else away.
We never booked him again

Your opinion reinforces my excellent opinion of the man. 

[Marmalade]

It’s funny how personal biases continue.

Like them or not, I would personally say John Peel and Nik in his way have brought substantial benefits to many people, they’re trailblazers. It strikes as no coincidence. I defend Scutty’s right to slag them off and though I generally disregard him (I find him a bit of an establishment oik if I have to think anything of him), we are all equal on here. There are no ‘top dogs’.

I’ve learnt to accept my utter disgust with the administration’s banning of a certain word. The forum’s not perfect and neither are we. But the more shit that’s shovelled against punters, the more we recognise the small niche that makes us ‘comrades’ of sorts. (No political connotation — I can’t think of a better word). Things that might be ‘unacceptable’ on another forum or in real life are acceptable here and vice versa.

It also means we don’t have to go on the ‘dark web’ to discuss morally acceptable things such p4p, thank goodness, and the ‘mods’ and ‘admin-owner’ play a valuable part in that. To slag them off — or even each other to a certain point — offends the very reason we all choose to be here.

[scutty brown]

Your opinion reinforces my excellent opinion of the man. 

I don't expect to change anyone's view of the man: I simply report what I saw and the impressions I got. Your choice what you want to think

[Marmalade]

I don't expect to change anyone's view of the man: I simply report what I saw and the impressions I got. Your choice what you want to think

So we can agree to disagree. End of, surely. 

[smiths]

Just completed viewing my recordings of the Jam and Style Councils docs. Enjoyed them both immensely, however my enjoyment was spoiled to a large degree by the bloody Sky Arts signal constantly breaking up again, considerably at times. Only station which seems to be doing so. I might have kept the recordings otherwise, but because of this will probably delete them.

The Jam doc reminded me that I suppose of all the bands and artists ever the Jam were truly my band of my era, more so than many of the other greats I like who were already established when I got into music.
Weller is the same age as me - actually 6 months younger, but would have been in my school year. I followed them from the beginning to the end, and like many was shocked and upset when they broke up. In later years I was actually happy when a band I like packed in, as it meant they couldn't tarnish their legacy as so many have done. Indeed, the Jam were possibly the only band who didn't spoil their legacy.
I remember every single coming out, and can recall where I was vividly when I first heard Town Called Malice. It was pretty mundane actually. One Saturday morning I was sitting with my dad at the dining table as he studied the horses, which was his Saturday morning ritual. It was just over a year before the old man passed away, and although he hated pop / rock music I will never forget him tapping his pen to the great rhythm. One of those memorable music moments. Malice still sounds fabulous all these year of over familiarity later. I tried to get tickets to a concert on their last tour, but they were so big by then it was completely sold out.

Moving on the to the Style Council and although I have a greatest hits cd they were much less familiar to me than the Jam. Although I recall every Jam video vividly as though it were yesterday, I only vaguely recall some of the earlier Style Council vids, and by the later ones I had lost a lot of interest in music generally, so they were completely unfamiliar to me.
Although I hated the SC at the time, before losing track of them totally, they did actually make some good records and were much better than I thought back then. Indeed the last few Jam singles: The Bitterest Pill, Beat Surrender and Precious, the double A side of Malice sounded as much like the SC as they did the Jam. SC were still not as good as the Jam or solo PW though.
It does seem strange even today though seeing Weller dancing and acting about in their videos, as it doesn't seem natural for someone who was perceived as quite serious.

Ultimately, what the two excellent documentaries brought home to me was how they epitomised my declining interest in music over the period, from fanatical to barely registering.

To compound my annoyance over the signal problems I also set it to record the Jam Rockpalast concert, but must have not done it properly as it didn't record.

I can still recall Weller being interviewed on I think Brighton Pier about breaking up The Jam at the time, his confidence was very clear to see for the future. I like pretty much all songs The Jam released but I don't like all Style Council songs, Shout To The Top is brilliant though. Loads of Jam songs came back into the charts following the announcement. Strange your having picture problems with Sky Arts as I haven't yet on Freeview but a couple of channels are moving shortly like ITV +1 is going from 33 to 34 I assume to make way for another channel and this is when I have had some pic problems before. In the early hours of next Saturday they are reshowing the Style Council doc and at 7.30-9.00pm showing The Who; Live At Kilburn 1977 which I haven't heard of before, but then I am not a big Who follower, I love Behind Blue Eyes.

I have them all on dvd but another good series now showing on Arts is the Sixties from an American viewpoint, tomorrow afternoon its about The War In Vietnam. Its US centric but well made in my view.

[smiths]

I met Peel once. I was one of three guards protecting him and his mixing desk at a university gig. Offensive foulmouthed piece of shite who made it clear to us that as far as he was concerned our only role was to let young girls get close to him - and keep everyone else away.
We never booked him again

He certainly got one young girl close to him, he married her in the US, she was a child as far as UK law would be concerned at 15, he was 25 or 26 at the time the nonce, she later killed herself as an adult not that I am saying he is to blame for that.

[Marmalade]

He certainly got one young girl close to him, he married her in the US, she was a child as far as UK law would be concerned at 15, he was 25 or 26 at the time the nonce, she later killed herself as an adult not that I am saying he is to blame for that.

Indeed, but she wasn't a child under U.S. law in that State at that time. It's easy to find something to criticise. Like saying Churchill was connected with the slave trade. Nothing wrong in knowing the facts but better to celebrate a person's achievements in my opinion, those things which can be emulated. We could pick lots of great artists, composers, inventors and humanitarians and find something we, from our relatively anonymous perch, find offensive: but if we did that eternally we would have no heroes, no trailblazers, no great examples in history to look up to or learn from.

I think history is benefitted by looking at like that. We talk about Hitler (to take the most revolting of examples) and say "Such genocide must never happen again". But of course it did. And does. With Pol Pot, a host of Africam leaders and many others. (I deliberately omit current genocides).

We don't need more Hitlers. We do need more great leaders. We hope leaders of the future can avoid mistakes of the past. I'm not saying this absolves anyone: just that I feel it is unfair to slag off anyone at the slightest drop of a hat. If it were your daughter of course you have a right to be outraged.

From a John Peel External Link/Members Only:

She was an orphan (both parents died in 1965) Peel had first got to know through letters and calls on WRR in Dallas, where he was working. When he discovered that she was going to be sent to her uncles hundreds of miles away, Peel decided to marry her, despite she being 15 years old. Peel insisted that Shirley sworn to him that she was 16 when married and later found out she really was 15 when police stopped the couple in Texas for speeding, where they were travelling to Oklahoma, for Peel to start his new job at KOMA.

Does that make him an evil man? Or is it a failing of the system that she fell through the cracks? I don't know.
But he was a great DJ.

[NIK]

He certainly got one young girl close to him, he married her in the US, she was a child as far as UK law would be concerned at 15, he was 25 or 26 at the time the nonce, she later killed herself as an adult not that I am saying he is to blame for that.

He also had VD & Mary Whitehouse thought someone who had had a sexual disease shouldn’t be allowed to present a ‘children’s programme.’ Not sure what children’s programme she was on about. But then again daft old Mary never really had her finger on the pulse.

It’s amazing how Peel never got at least investigated by the naughty police as he certainly got up to more jailbait than old Cliff ever did. But then so did Jimmy Page to name but one, and he never got his collar felt either.

[smiths]

Indeed, but she wasn't a child under U.S. law in that State at that time. It's easy to find something to criticise. Like saying Churchill was connected with the slave trade. Nothing wrong in knowing the facts but better to celebrate a person's achievements in my opinion, those things which can be emulated. We could pick lots of great artists, composers, inventors and humanitarians and find something we, from our relatively anonymous perch, find offensive: but if we did that eternally we would have no heroes, no trailblazers, no great examples in history to look up to or learn from.

I think history is benefitted by looking at like that. We talk about Hitler (to take the most revolting of examples) and say "Such genocide must never happen again". But of course it did. And does. With Pol Pot, a host of Africam leaders and many others. (I deliberately omit current genocides).

We don't need more Hitlers. We do need more great leaders. We hope leaders of the future can avoid mistakes of the past. I'm not saying this absolves anyone: just that I feel it is unfair to slag off anyone at the slightest drop of a hat. If it were your daughter of course you have a right to be outraged.

From a John Peel External Link/Members Only:
Does that make him an evil man? Or is it a failing of the system that she fell through the cracks? I don't know.
But he was a great DJ.

What matters to me is that he was 25 or 26 at the time and married a 15 year old child, that makes him a nonce in my book, whether it was legal or not. An adult marrying a child tells me all I need to know about such a person.

[smiths]

He also had VD & Mary Whitehouse thought someone who had had a sexual disease shouldn’t be allowed to present a ‘children’s programme.’ Not sure what children’s programme she was on about. But then again daft old Mary never really had her finger on the pulse.

It’s amazing how Peel never got at least investigated by the naughty police as he certainly got up to more jailbait than old Cliff ever did. But then so did Jimmy Page to name but one, and he never got his collar felt either.

Of course Whitehouse said that the disgusting things she fought to get banned damaged people, yet she saw them herself, stupid interfering old cunt.

Whose to say who the police might nab next for sexual offences from their pasts. We had the run of a number of celebs a few years back. It was great to see that prime arsehole Max Clifford get convicted and I think he died in prison. Also Stuart Hall who when he heard of the allegations against him made a public statement calling his accusers liars. Well at the last min he pleaded guilty.

But also some found not guilty or who weren't even charged got named in the press, and for some mud sticks.

[Marmalade]

What matters to me is that he was 25 or 26 at the time and married a 15 year old child, that makes him a nonce in my book, whether it was legal or not. An adult marrying what he knows is a child tells me all I need to know about such a person.

as a person, yes. Does that affect your view of him as a DJ?

For instance, there's some actors I can't stand for their political views or idiotic opinions, some of which I regard as dangerous: others I try to separate the two. I don't like the films of Terrence Malick for their christian agenda and avoid him -- his personal views overlap into his work. I don't approve of Churchill's connection with slavery (if there was one, as claimed, I don't know) but it didn't affect his ability as a leader, nor do I approve of Pasolini's romping apparently with an underage girl but it doesn't alter the fact that he is great filmmaker. Woody Allen's marriage is controversial: yet his wife ended up incredibly happy and their marriage has survived a long time. Peel would be guilty by today's standard's, but by yesterday's he was unfortunate to get involved with such a mixed up kid (she was apparently very abusive to him). Was he wrong? Yes. But the man is dead: he's not going to hurt anyone else. He'll be remembered for his music.

I have to say I didn't know anything about his personal life until it was raised.

[smiths]

as a person, yes. Does that affect your view of him as a DJ?

For instance, there's some actors I can't stand for their political views or idiotic opinions, some of which I regard as dangerous: others I try to separate the two. I don't like the films of Terrence Malick for their christian agenda and avoid him -- his personal views overlap into his work. I don't approve of Churchill's connection with slavery (if there was one, as claimed, I don't know) but it didn't affect his ability as a leader, nor do I approve of Pasolini's romping apparently with an underage girl but it doesn't alter the fact that he is great filmmaker. Woody Allen's marriage is controversial: yet his wife ended up incredibly happy and their marriage has survived a long time. Peel would be guilty by today's standard's, but by yesterday's he was unfortunate to get involved with such a mixed up kid (she was apparently very abusive to him). Was he wrong? Yes. But the man is dead: he's not going to hurt anyone else. He'll be remembered for his music.

I have to say I didn't know anything about his personal life until it was raised.

I wasn't aware of it for most of his career. IMO he was guilty as an adult by any standards, this was in 1965 not 1865 and he was 10 years older than her, not like he was 17 and her 15.

I think Harvey Weinstein is an evil cunt but I will watch films he produced, i don't mind a couple of Gary Glitter songs. I like some of the old wall of sound music though Spector got done for Murder i think it was. So i will watch or listen to things by people i don't like if i like something they have done.

But there are limits on this, i wouldn't now watch Jimll Fix It and listen to the group the Lost Prophets not that i ever did before, but i did used to watch Jimll Fix It. I have no doubt he was getting a sexual kick out of making that programme and he did molest some of his victims through it. So it would be beyond the pale for me to watch it and Ian Watkins is a very very evil cunt.

[markeewould]

I rememberers long ago someone coming into work and raving about a new Irish band

Weeks went by and the person continued to rave about them I took some interest and was told 'the cause' was the band to listen to

Now being a sensitive soul I decided the they weren't for me as I knew the Northern Irish situation and 'the cause' was how the IRA sympathisers referred to the troubles in Northern Ireland and that 'the cause' was obviously going to be an anti English pro Irish band trying to profit out of the troubles or the northern Ireland peace agreement either way I was having none of it ..... was I going to go see them when they toured no would I buy records no ...would I have any interetst in them at all ....certainly not ..... then with some glee the original exponent of the band turned up at work one day with their latest cd and the must have track to listen to which was duly played on the nearest pc available for most of the morning ...imagine then my surprise when picking up the cd at lunchtime as I could no longer resist the sound of such freedom fighters ....and looking for the war torn solders of the republican army on the cover as I expected ...similarities to all the IRA folk who were at this point in time having their voices dubbed on the uk based news .... and what did I see in front of me three stunners and a very lucky brother ..... what was going on ?!?@?£?£$? Turns out the west mids accent didi not do 'the corrs' any favours at all as it cam cacross as 'the cause' rather then 'the corrs'.   just goes to show how wrong you can be ....

[Marmalade]

All good stuff but the only music threads seem to be ‘old guys reminiscing’...

Doesn’t anyone listen to new music, new bands, new sounds, new singers??

[Malvolio]

I bought a new album recently by some bloke called Bob Dylan - he's quite good.