Police raids in Luton

[scutty brown]

 
I'm not contradicting myself
 
Like you and everyone else on this thread....I'm posting biased opinions about a contentious topic
 
No1 is posting statistical data from the Met Operations that could easily lead everyone to the same interpretation 
 
Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. Only one thing is right, and that is the data that Met Operations have, but nobody is posting that.

WTF are you talking about, "Met Operations data"? Where are you getting that from?

[puntingpumping1920]

WTF are you talking about, "Met Operations data"? Where are you getting that from?

Met Operations, also known as Met Ops have data regarding organized crime
 
The National Audit Office (NAO) examine the data and release it to the public

[daviemac]

 
I'm not contradicting myself
 
Like you and everyone else on this thread....I'm posting biased opinions about a contentious topic
 
No1 is posting statistical data from the Met Operations that could easily lead everyone to the same interpretation 
 
Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. Only one thing is right, and that is the data that Met Operations have, but nobody is posting that.

You are quoting that "A Pimp loses his control when he gives his worker freedom. Most of the trafficked girls are only doing in-calls" as a FACT have you forgotten already  That is not expressing an opinion it's you claiming it's a fact, why else use the word fact.

Don't forget you also claim low-life scum who traffic girls into this country and force them into sex work "provide valuable services" to those they exploit.

[scutty brown]

Met Operations, also known as Met Ops have data regarding organized crime
 
The National Audit Office (NAO) examine the data and release it to the public

Really? Where?
But somehow I don't think it will have any relevance to identifying trafficking or slavery victims
Mentioning it is just a distraction

[puntingpumping1920]

You are quoting that "A Pimp loses his control when he gives his worker freedom. Most of the trafficked girls are only doing in-calls" as a FACT have you forgotten already  That is not expressing an opinion it's you claiming it's a fact, why else use the word fact.

Don't forget you also claim low-life scum who traffic girls into this country and force them into sex work "provide valuable services" to those they exploit.

 
I believe my opinion is fact lol
 
If we are dealing with truth, then we need to analyze data and explain such data (None of us are).
 
Some pimps provide a service to escorts that they find helpful
 
This escort who I have seen: External Link/Members Only or External Link/Members Only
 
She used to work for a pimp, but now she is independent.
 
Her pimp helped her travel into this country and they had a good working relationship while in London.
 
She told me she applied to work for the pimp....no1 forced her or exploited her

She told me most of the hungarian girls in London are not forced. 
 
Most of the hungarian girls she knew applied to work for their pimp.   
 
That's her experience
 
Not every escort wants to be a business owner...some like to be workers.
 
Some girls don't want to worry about: administration, security, marketing, housing etc
 

[scutty brown]

 
I believe my opinion is fact lol
 
If we are dealing with truth, then we need to analyze data and explain such data (None of us are).
 
Some pimps provide a service to escorts that they find helpful
 
This escort who I have seen: External Link/Members Only or External Link/Members Only
 
She used to work for a pimp, but now she is independent.
 
Her pimp helped her travel into this country and they had a good working relationship while in London.
 
She told me she applied to work for the pimp....no1 forced her or exploited her

She told me most of the hungarian girls in London are not forced. 
 
Most of the hungarian girls she knew applied to work for their pimp.   
 
That's her experience
 
Not every escort wants to be a business owner...some like to be workers.
 
Some girls don't want to worry about: administration, security, marketing, housing etc

Funny, she's listed as Polish not Hungarian
And I've got a fair idea of who her pimp might be.............she's (the pimp) been known to order beatings and gang rapes of girls who try to leave and also threaten families back in Poland.
Your proszie friend isn't going to tell you any of that for her own protection.
As for the comment about the Hungarians, thats totally laughable. Very few of them are here voluntarily

[puntingpumping1920]

Funny, she's listed as Polish not Hungarian
And I've got a fair idea of who her pimp might be.............she's (the pimp) been known to order beatings and gang rapes of girls who try to leave and also threaten families back in Poland.
Your proszie friend isn't going to tell you any of that for her own protection.
As for the comment about the Hungarians, thats totally laughable. Very few of them are here voluntarily

 
I meant polish lol
 
I can't edit my post
 
She spoke about about polish escorts in London   
 
She did say some Romanian pimps are very brutal
 
I don't know if she is a pimp and neither do you (IMO, she isn't).   
   
We are not friends. 
 
I asked her, how she arrived here and how she got her start....This conversation happened while I was getting ready to leave

[daviemac]

I believe my opinion is fact lol
   
She told me she applied to work for the pimp....no1 forced her or exploited her

You really are an idiot aren't you, LOL

If the escort that you're on about did actually come here and work through a pimp of her own free will, she is not relevant to this thread.

I'll say it again this thread is about pimps being arrested for trafficking and sexual exploitation and the girls being removed from that situation. It is not about escorts working for agencies of their own free will.   Read the OP again.   

[puntingpumping1920]

You really are an idiot aren't you, LOL

If the escort that you're on about did actually come here and work through a pimp of her own free will, she is not relevant to this thread.

I'll say it again this thread is about pimps being arrested for trafficking and sexual exploitation and the girls being removed from that situation. It is not about escorts working for agencies of their own free will.   Read the OP again.   

 
 
Her ex-pimp would be found guilty of trafficking. Even if it was of her own free will, you're not allowed to facilitate the travel of another person for the purposes of prostitution
 
According to Trafficking for Sexual Exploitation: Section 2 Modern Slavery Act 2015
 

 

[daviemac]

 
 
Her ex-pimp would be found guilty of trafficking. Even if it was of her own free will, you're not allowed to facilitate the travel of another person for the purposes of prostitution
 
According to Trafficking for Sexual Exploitation: Section 2 Modern Slavery Act 2015

FFS he wouldn't be prosecuted, they aren't interested in those who go into sex work voluntarily, they are after the scum who con the girls to bring then into the country then coerce and force them into prostitution.

Give it up mate, you're wrong in just about everything you've said.

 

[puntingpumping1920]

FFS he wouldn't be prosecuted, they aren't interested in those who go into sex work voluntarily, they are after the scum who con the girls to bring then into the country then coerce and force them into prostitution.

Give it up mate, you're wrong in just about everything you've said.

 
 
Clearly you are the idiot lol
 
The law clearly states
 
You are not allowed to facilitate the travel of another person for the purposes of prostitution...... Even if it was of her own free will
 
The police do allow pimps to operate brothels without risk of prosecution. Provided that certain ‘ground rules’ are observed. These include no selling of alcohol, no drugs and no under-age girls etc.

[daviemac]

 
 
Clearly you are the idiot lol
 
The law clearly states
 
You are not allowed to facilitate the travel of another person for the purposes of prostitution...... Even if it was of her own free will
 
The police do allow pimps to operate brothels without risk of prosecution. Provided that certain ‘ground rules’ are observed. These include no selling of alcohol, no drugs and no under-age girls etc.

Read what I said, I did not say it wasn't illegal, I said he wouldn't be prosecuted because they aren't interested in those who aren't trafficked. Unless you can quote where I said it wasn't illegal.

Now stop being so stupid and try and understand what this thread is about.  I'll explain it for the last time, this thread is about the lowlife scum, (who you have stated  "provide valuable services") who force girls into prostitution. It is not about those who do so willingly.   

* There you go again, generalising and stating your opinions and suppositions as facts, it depends where in the country you are what is allowed regarding sex work.

Oops nearly forgot. LOL

[puntingpumping1920]

Read what I said, I did not say it wasn't illegal, I said he wouldn't be prosecuted because they aren't interested in those who aren't trafficked. Unless you can quote where I said it wasn't illegal.

 
She was trafficked according to law and he broke the law
 
Do you have any sources to support that the police are not interested in those who aren't trafficked

* There you go again, generalising and stating your opinions and suppositions as facts,

[daviemac]

 
She was trafficked according to law and he broke the law
 
Do you have any sources to support that the police are not interested in those who aren't trafficked

* There you go again, generalising and stating your opinions and suppositions as facts,

Look this up - GAP- Changing Lives - They hold regular meetings throughout the North East for all sex workers, including agencies. They advertise those meetings on another forum, the meetings are also attended by one or more of the 34 Northumbria police dedicated liaison officers (who's purpose in life is to look after prostitutes). The police are fully aware of and accept the fact agencies use drivers to move escorts about, despite it being illegal.

External Link/Members Only

To counter the fact they accept aspects of sex work here they also do this - 

Headline -
Homes in Newcastle and Gateshead were raided in a crackdown on gangs who lure women to the UK before trapping them into prostitution

External Link/Members Only

Any more 'evidence' you want?? there are more links I could post but I feel I would be wasting my time, as a well known NE member would say "you can't educate pork".   

Now stop being an idiot.
 

[puntingpumping1920]

Look this up - GAP- Changing Lives - They hold regular meetings throughout the North East for all sex workers, including agencies. They advertise those meetings on another forum, the meetings are also attended by one or more of the 34 Northumbria police dedicated liaison officers (who's purpose in life is to look after prostitutes). The police are fully aware of and accept the fact agencies use drivers to move escorts about, despite it being illegal.

External Link/Members Only

To counter the fact they accept aspects of sex work here they also do this - 

Headline -
Homes in Newcastle and Gateshead were raided in a crackdown on gangs who lure women to the UK before trapping them into prostitution

External Link/Members Only

Any more 'evidence' you want?? there are more links I could post but I feel I would be wasting my time, as a well known NE member would say "you can't educate pork".   

Now stop being an idiot.

 
Not sure why you randomly posted that
 
I asked... Do you have any sources to support that the police are not interested in those who aren't trafficked

You won't find sources because they don't exist lol 

[cotton]

I have no doubt that most of these type of girls are in effect itinerant migrant workers who know what they are getting into and will get paid a lot more than if they were picking fruit or working in a hot kitchen, washing dishes for hours on end.

But even these would technically be 'trafficked' since everything is 'taken care of' by others, from their journey here to their accommodation and working conditions.

CPS guidelines always interesting to try and understand how the law is actually going to be applied.
External Link/Members Only
Trafficking requires the person to be trafficked with the intention of exploitation , where exploitation means (for our purposes)" Sexual exploitation, which involves the commission of an offence under ; Part 1 Sexual Offences Act 2003 Sexual exploitation.
Considering section 52 of the 2003 act is - "Causing or inciting prostitution for gain" along with other associated offences (53.Controlling prostitution for gain) it could be argued this would constitute defactor guilt of trafficking irrespective of the trafficked persons willingness or otherwise.
Altho probably the police and cps take a more pragmatic role and just persue more examples of obvious victimisation. But as you say technically its all trafficking if it for the purposes of prostitution.

[daviemac]

 
Not sure why you randomly posted that
 
I asked... Do you have any sources to support that the police are not interested in those who aren't trafficked

You won't find sources because they don't exist lol 

What do you think the 34 police DLOs do you fucking idiot. I've given you the information about where to look to support what I'm saying, if you're so interested do the research as I did. Start by contacting one of the DLOs and asking them what the risks are for you as a punter.

The DLOs attend the meetings prostitutes have with GAP, they work with prostitutes if they have problems with stalkers etc, they look out for and take action against traffickers. They also know agencies use drivers because they say so on their websites. Funnily enough they don't prosecute them as long as they stay within accepted boundaries.

How many DLOs does your punting area have??   

Unlike you I don't just post random shite on here, if I say it I've looked into it.

Just to confirm - sources - GAP - Northumbria police DLO.

Oops forgot again LOL

[winkywanky]

CPS guidelines always interesting to try and understand how the law is actually going to be applied.
External Link/Members Only
Trafficking requires the person to be trafficked with the intention of exploitation , where exploitation means (for our purposes)" Sexual exploitation, which involves the commission of an offence under ; Part 1 Sexual Offences Act 2003 Sexual exploitation.
Considering section 52 of the 2003 act is - "Causing or inciting prostitution for gain" along with other associated offences (53.Controlling prostitution for gain) it could be argued this would constitute defactor guilt of trafficking irrespective of the trafficked persons willingness or otherwise.
Altho probably the police and cps take a more pragmatic role and just persue more examples of obvious victimisation. But as you say technically its all trafficking if it for the purposes of prostitution.

Yes, I think it's exactly this, that it very much depends on how the law(s) is (are) applied, and that will depend on various factors, ranging from whether an area is 'flooded' with foreign sex workers and pisses off the local population, to whether drugs have become largely involved and the inherent added crime which that would bring.

It's almost as if it's accepted while it bubbles under the surface and isn't generally seen or perceived by 'ordinary folks'. It's when it gets out of hand and starts getting noticed that the police (within their limited resources, and that's also probably an issue) will become interested.

Also, the 'social norms' of the day, if it becomes a big thing in the press and public consciousness then I guess the CPS and police will feel pressured to be seen to act.

So within that scenario, girls who are basically willingly in this work will probably be left alone (and also their pimps), whereas if intel emerges of girls being forced, given drugs to make them dependent or being brought into the country under false pretences and having their passports taken by pimps, then the police will act on that.

[puntingpumping1920]

What do you think the 34 police DLOs do you fucking idiot. I've given you the information about where to look to support what I'm saying, if you're so interested do the research as I did. Start by contacting one of the DLOs and asking them what the risks are for you as a punter.

The DLOs attend the meetings prostitutes have with GAP, they work with prostitutes if they have problems with stalkers etc, they look out for and take action against traffickers. They also know agencies use drivers because they say so on their websites. Funnily enough they don't prosecute them as long as they stay within accepted boundaries.

How many DLOs does your punting area have??   

Unlike you I don't just post random shite on here, if I say it I've looked into it.

Just to confirm - sources - GAP - Northumbria police DLO.

Oops forgot again LOL

 
You're waffling by posting unnecessary articles/ reports which I didn't ask for
 
None of those articles/ reports supported what you said lol
 

they aren't interested in those who aren't trafficked.

You are not going to find a police report or a quote to support what you said 
 
You are clearly an idiot who knows nothing about what you are talking about lol
 
Last reponse regarding this subject lol
 
Now stop being an idiot.

[daviemac]

 
You're waffling by posting unnecessary articles/ reports which I didn't ask for
 
None of those articles/ reports supported what you said lol
 
You are not going to find a police report or a quote to support what you said 
 
You are clearly an idiot who knows nothing about what you are talking about lol
 
Last reponse regarding this subject lol
 
Now stop being an idiot.

Why have you posted this twice 

Phone the DLO and they will tell you what they are concerned about, they will tell you what you can and can't do with regard to punting. That's what they are there for.   

I'll say it again. They aren't interested in those who aren't trafficked, Contact them and they will tell you that. What do you find so difficult to understand about that.

To put it another way you show me that they are concerned about those who aren't trafficked.

Try and act like an adult in this discussion and forget the childish LOLs.

Edit

Would you like me to sort your posts out for you and get rid of one of them, or do you think you need to post twice to try and get your point across.   

[Happyjose]

You are clearly an idiot
 

You are clearly an idiot

There's irony, right there

 

.

[20jay]

It is absolutely impossible to discuss this topic between the hobby prosecutors here.  The phrase that paying for sex in the UK is unpunished seems like a fig leaf if any cop can point to you and say you had sex with a victim of trafficking, even if the girl denied it.  I have been assured several times here that there would be no defense, you are guilty, no matter what ,who says.  In summary, I have a well-known lawyer in London who will explain the law to me after the holidays.  Until then,I'll visit my ladies abroad where the circumstances and legal situation is clearer and where is still the possibility of a defense if the signs of human trafficking or coercion are not immediately apparent, because I also do not want to fuck a tortured creature.  I recommend loyalty to everyone else and a girlfriend or wife.

Again yes I understood the laws here .. cheers

EDIT :I hope the gentlemen here excuse my bad english

[Happyjose]

It is absolutely impossible to discuss this topic between the hobby prosecutors here.  The phrase that paying for sex in the UK is unpunished seems like a fig leaf if any cop can point to you and say you had sex with a victim of trafficking, even if the girl denied it.  I have been assured several times here that there would be no defense, you are guilty, no matter what ,who says.  In summary, I have a well-known lawyer in London who will explain the law to me after the holidays.  Until then,I'll visit my ladies abroad where the circumstances and legal situation is clearer and where is still the possibility of a defense if the signs of human trafficking or coercion are not immediately apparent, because I also do not want to fuck a tortured creature.  I recommend loyalty to everyone else and a girlfriend or wife.

Again yes I understood the laws here .. cheers

EDIT :I hope the gentlemen here excuse my bad english

It's not your English, it's just you're a bit daft. The fact that this has been explained to you several times, and you still haven't got it, is elegant proof

You are a useful fool though - the thread (including your contributions) will be of benefit to the many who have read this and not commented (3k at this point)

.

[20jay]

I think you are too stupid to understand what I'm talking about ... I read and understood the law.  Buying sex is not punishable until a cop arrests you and says you had sex with a victim of human trafficking. --> You cannot defend yourself.  So commercial sex is not unpunished in UK.  You do not understand it ..

So Gents stop seening hookers .. !!! You are always guilty of human trafficking in this Country . Okay ..du you understand it matie.  Yes ? That's what I said since comment #17 

[Happyjose]

I think you are too stupid to understand what I'm talking about ... I read and understood the law.  Buying sex is not punishable until a cop arrests you and says you had sex with a victim of human trafficking. --> You cannot defend yourself.  So commercial sex is not unpunished in UK.  You do not understand it ..

So Gents stop seening hookers .. !!! You are always guilty of human trafficking in this Country . Okay ..du you understand it matie.  Yes ? That's what I said since comment #17

 

[20jay]

 

[kielondon]

External Link/Members Only

[Bornslippy]

Quick search. Still the same shite offering their fake services in Luton. Wonder exactly in Luton the raids were?

[20jay]

I haven't been to Luton in months and I won't be going back. The topic is done for me for various reasons.
EDIT: And yes, at least since the Dec19 raids, one can avoid Luton