"Buying Sex" 2013 - Documentary about Canada's approach to prostitution.

[LLPunting]

Curious to see how this portrays SWs.

[JayEZ2K]

Trailer: External Link/Members Only

On a related note, this comic is also from Canada: External Link/Members Only

For the political side of things, it would be good to have a library of documentaries and related items.

[LLPunting]

Finished viewing.  It was good in that it gave (some) voice to punters, streetwalkers, brothel workers, escorts as well as puritanical campaigners and more rational observers.  Quite a chunk talking about the way NZ have gone and Sweden.  A lot of context but not enough insight into the drivers for the Canadian situation in 2013.  Will need to look into how the appeals went since then.

Worth a download and watch for an hour.  Will save you £sss for an hour at least.

[LLPunting]

Trailer: External Link/Members Only

On a related note, this comic is also from Canada: External Link/Members Only

For the political side of things, it would be good to have a library of documentaries and related items.

Hey J, can you please move this to the UKPunting board, it shouldn't be here in London (I can't move my own thread).  Cheers 

[unus669]

Interesting documentary, I’m not sure many countries will adopt the Swedish model. The police there seem to be, tracking establishments and building dossiers on punters, for prosecution. In the U.K., where we have loads of Indies, tracking will be difficult. With Police shortages here, there will be a manpower problem Swedes now take 30 minute trips to Denmark, to punt

[Flunt]

An interesting watch.

Stating the obvious, sex is a commodity worth billions glamourising and sexualising females from a young age. It's probably made worse by YouTube stars selling an illusion, as well as pop princesses and the like, creating an image to entice us simple men and our urges. The whole commodity thing then drives the women, as they get older, to need things and want to needed.

IMHO, men have their desires and women their needs, some men have money and some women want to get their hands on it, supply and demand. Is there a way to control it? I don't see how, especially with the freedom offered by the internet. The ambiguity of sites like SA and paid dating moves the goalposts beyond the reaches of the law. The old joke, £50k a night is OK, £50 for half an hour is wrong. At what point would someone be prosecuted in places like the US and Sweden?

[LLPunting]

Interesting documentary, I’m not sure many countries will adopt the Swedish model. The police there seem to be, tracking establishments and building dossiers on punters, for prosecution. In the U.K., where we have loads of Indies, tracking will be difficult. With Police shortages here, there will be a manpower problem Swedes now take 30 minute trips to Denmark, to punt

The Swedish approach as revealed baffled me, why you'd want to increase demands on your Police's investigatory workload by thousands upon thousands makes no sense, especially as you are criminalising otherwise harmless individuals for the sake of the capture of true threats to SPs an civvies.

It clearly wouldn't work here with tens of thousands of extra "crims" to add to the work of the detectives, caseload of CPS and prison overcrowding.  If they went the naming and shaming route then there would surely be a case to answer about the defamation of individuals by association who just wanted a shag and those who could be proven to be a direct threat to SP and civvie wellbeing.  What legal protections would convicted punters have about job opportunities to prevent discrimination.  To assume they are a threat to women in the workplace just because they bought sex would be wrong.  What about entering into civil partnership or marriage or registering on dating sites. 
Since the SPs aren't being criminalised for offering services, if such laws were passed and SPs continued to offer their services then that would constitute entrapment or incitement to breaking the law?

[LLPunting]

An interesting watch.

Stating the obvious, sex is a commodity worth billions glamourising and sexualising females from a young age. It's probably made worse by YouTube stars selling an illusion, as well as pop princesses and the like, creating an image to entice us simple men and our urges. The whole commodity thing then drives the women, as they get older, to need things and want to needed.

IMHO, men have their desires and women their needs, some men have money and some women want to get their hands on it, supply and demand. Is there a way to control it? I don't see how, especially with the freedom offered by the internet. The ambiguity of sites like SA and paid dating moves the goalposts beyond the reaches of the law. The old joke, £50k a night is OK, £50 for half an hour is wrong. At what point would someone be prosecuted in places like the US and Sweden?

The justification/preaching from the pro-criminalisation lot was so deluded.  There are very few socially acceptable and legal means by which an SP (male or female) can earn money at such a prodigious rate, so whilst they are right to protect the financially destitute and emotionally compromised from dangerous and desperate streetwalking, there is nothing wrong with a sound minded individual selling their physical talents and skills based on a rational assessment of the risks vs rewards of fucking a few (or many) individuals a day/week/month, just like a professional psychologist or chiropractor, let alone "bonafide" sexologists and surrogates, decide their value and work rate.

[Flunt]

The justification/preaching from the pro-criminalisation lot was so deluded.

I reckon the fat bird was just being bitter because she found herself in a niche group and her potential earnings didn't cover her food bill.

It's difficult to judge the overall situation because we live in such a dark and seedy world. Maybe if it was all out in the open with some sort of professional finishing school for the prostitutes, financial advice and planning; health and safety; organisation skills; and a licence to operate. The authorities could then focus their attention on dangerous punters, pimps, traffickers and grooming gangs.

Ultimately it comes down to what a society wants to achieve. There is a certain nobility in the Swedish thinking, unfortunately men still want a shag and us fuglies have to pay for it!

[LLPunting]

I reckon the fat bird was just being bitter because she found herself in a niche group and her potential earnings didn't cover her food bill.

It's difficult to judge the overall situation because we live in such a dark and seedy world. Maybe if it was all out in the open with some sort of professional finishing school for the prostitutes, financial advice and planning; health and safety; organisation skills; and a licence to operate. The authorities could then focus their attention on dangerous punters, pimps, traffickers and grooming gangs.

Ultimately it comes down to what a society wants to achieve. There is a certain nobility in the Swedish thinking, unfortunately men still want a shag and us fuglies have to pay for it!

I sympathised with the abused large lady and the predicament of indigenous and ethnic women.  I was repelled by the white bureaucrats spouting on about addressing the safeguarding of women who had been failed by the state's inaction and inability to address the coercive factors which are of a more direct threat to their society, beyond just the subset of women who resorted to turning tricks to make ends meet.

Very questionable nobility to push the sexual frustrations of your otherwise non-criminal citizens onto the concerns of another nation.  How much does such enforcement action cost, perhaps that would be far more usefully employed in addressing the needs of the vulnerable women who are coerced by circumstance rather than free choice?

Sex is a primal driver you cannot prejudicially legislate away.  If it's legal for an SP to sell their body then it should be legal for an SS to purchase that service, any intent or act of malice by either party would be subject to other legal safeguards just as in any business interaction.

[Flunt]

Very questionable nobility to push the sexual frustrations of your otherwise non-criminal citizens onto the concerns of another nation.

My thoughts were inclined to their intentions. If you follow their logic: we punters are abusing women who are forced into sex work by circumstances, whether that's drug addiction, the need to feed their kids or just keeping up with the Jones' then greater welfare will "save" them?

The punter at the end made a fair point on that score, increasing his taxes to pay for more state aid, he gets fucked out of his money without the pleasure.

The old prostitute, Valerie Scott has been on Ted. She made the point that religions, armies and governments have failed to stop prostitution since the beginning of time. Men want sex, women want something in return, whether that's love and marriage, treating well or £/hour. The added problem now is the MeToo bollocks where a smile and a flirt can cause more trouble than paying for it, in some places.

[LLPunting]

My thoughts were inclined to their intentions. If you follow their logic: we punters are abusing women who are forced into sex work by circumstances, whether that's drug addiction, the need to feed their kids or just keeping up with the Jones' then greater welfare will "save" them?

The punter at the end made a fair point on that score, increasing his taxes to pay for more state aid, he gets fucked out of his money without the pleasure.

The old prostitute, Valerie Scott has been on Ted. She made the point that religions, armies and governments have failed to stop prostitution since the beginning of time. Men want sex, women want something in return, whether that's love and marriage, treating well or £/hour. The added problem now is the MeToo bollocks where a smile and a flirt can cause more trouble than paying for it, in some places.

I'm all for "saving" those at the bottom of the well through properly funded programmes to alleviate the coercive basic conditions they might be suffering under whether real poverty, substance abuse, wilful abuse and exploitation by a controlling party and mental illness, amongst other genuine misfortunes.  That said if the SP has access to a minimum existence through support services and access to "regular" employment that would supplement that and they still choose to be an SP then punters cannot be held as abusers.  IF the welfare state is unable to support any citizens in need to a minimum level then those that take their labour are exploiting them whether it's farmers, builders, shops, charities or punters.

The other punter suggesting castration of all men also had a point, albeit undesirable.

The one thing I do find very annoying is that all the discussion around sex work and the exploitation that happens fails to acknowledge that a considerable number of women freely choose sex work or transacting sex for benefits.  The righteous judgement and indignation of religious morals has no place in a state purporting to champion the rights, equalities and body sovereignty of the individual.

[Flunt]

I can only speak from my own experiences and prejudices. Like a great many, I suffer from the influence of MSM, who portray street girls as desperate, drug addicts with any number of problems. I have no idea how true that is, but steer clear regardless.

The NZ girls in the brothel seemed to have their heads on straight, the option of working for minimum wage is more exploitative than the money they can make dropping their knickers. Likewise, the prostitutes I have visited in the UK have generally seemed happy and healthy when taking my money. The truth of that is generally ignored and hidden by MSM.

Maybe castration is the only answer, although I won't be volunteering!

Maybe the do-gooders should spend a while reading SAAFE and decide who the victims are in this game? Maybe society should look at the emasculated men too afraid to approach a woman for fear of the MeToo movement. A read of individual circumstances on here would open a few eyes and send some sympathy in our direction. Incels, widowers, those trapped in loveless marriages. For some men prostitution is a preference to commitment, love and marriage, to others a relief from that same situation but the politics of liberal thinking is a completely different topic.

I believe in free will and the freedom of the individual. The best prostitutes are the best actresses, I have no idea if someone is actually pleased to see me or just the money I'm handing over. I'm not a doctor or shrink, so cannot testify that they really are happy and healthy. Often times I have left I have heard them say that they hope to see me again, presumably a selling pitch, who knows?

[Itsnotshy]

All the arguments over the rights and wrongs of prostitution and individual liberty ultimately mean nothing.
The anti sex brigade don't like us, will never like us, will never like sex workers. They also have sufficient drive to get themselves into politics and enforce their prejudices.
They absolutely will not be persuaded by any rational argument to change their minds about us, they want us gone, full stop.
We will simply have to accept whatever they decide, find ways around it or get another hobby, maybe Dungeons and Dragons or collecting stamps.

[LLPunting]

All the arguments over the rights and wrongs of prostitution and individual liberty ultimately mean nothing.
The anti sex brigade don't like us, will never like us, will never like sex workers. They also have sufficient drive to get themselves into politics and enforce their prejudices.
They absolutely will not be persuaded by any rational argument to change their minds about us, they want us gone, full stop.
We will simply have to accept whatever they decide, find ways around it or get another hobby, maybe Dungeons and Dragons or collecting stamps.

20!  Critical hit with my +6 Holy Slayer bastard sword in 2-handed attack with triple damage to zealots, biggots and man-haters.  (Original rules)

[cunningman]

20!  Critical hit with my +6 Holy Slayer bastard sword in 2-handed attack with triple damage to zealots, biggots and man-haters.  (Original rules)

Original?  Or 2nd edition, which was what most of us started with in UK?
Tunnels and Trolls for the win, anyway.  (Bastard sword?  Sure you don't mean T&T?)
Perhaps I should crawl back under my rock?

[LLPunting]

Original?  Or 2nd edition, which was what most of us started with in UK?
Tunnels and Trolls for the win, anyway.  (Bastard sword?  Sure you don't mean T&T?)
Perhaps I should crawl back under my rock?

Apols, started with US edition as DM from there then bought UK set.

Graduated to Traveller, Space Opera and Aftermath, lots more non-edged pokey things to do the nasty to baddies with and more enhancements for the SPs to entertain us with that didn't involve the bestiary.

[Itsnotshy]

And after nearly 40 years I have this sudden urge to paint a semi naked warrior babe figure. Original rules for me, I was there at the start, but managed to escape early on.

[LLPunting]

And after nearly 40 years I have this sudden urge to paint a semi naked warrior babe figure. Original rules for me, I was there at the start, but managed to escape early on.

Well at least you're not playing WoW Classic on your phone.

[LLPunting]

Liked this:  External Link/Members Only

[LLPunting]

Found this limited follow-up about NZ in the Independent (apologies for the faff to view that site if you're trying to minimize tracking and if this article has been posted before.)
External Link/Members Only

Link from the comments after is priceless External Link/Members Only

[unus669]

Liked this:  External Link/Members Only

 

Aptly illustrated