Why is punting and escorting taboo?

[Kieslowski]

I think it's mainly because punting fuses together a whole bunch of issues that are taboo or frowned upon in their own right.

For a start, sex itself is an uncomfortable subject for a lot of British people.

Old men having sex with young women raises eyebrows whether money changes hands or not.

Married/attached men having sex with other women is frowned upon - even those indulging in "ethical non-monogamy" are viewed as weirdos.

Women who indulge in casual sex are still called sluts by a lot of people.

Even the idea of sex as a past-time rather than something between two people who are attracted to each other is not entirely mainstream.

Then you've got the SWERFs who claim that exchanging sex for money is inherently "violent", even between a client and SP who have been seeing each other for years and spend half the punt catching up on gossip.

Add to that all the misconceptions about the industry, along with the criminal element that still exists in some quarters, and it's not hard to see why it's still taboo.

As long as things like lapdancing are still viewed with disdain, there's not a hope of sex work being truly mainstreamed.

[Tender.french.kiss]

I think the taboo is rooted in 2 main things:
- Firstly and foremostly because of religion. Fear of sex, of its liberative powers, of women being in control is a grave threat to the way religions dominate and enslave people. Or at least a threat to the way religion was used by an elite as a way to control people and exert power. Even if the influence of religion has faded a lot in today's life, it's imprint on our societal values is still enormous.
- secondly, but to a lesser degree, because most of our societies are patriarchal and that monogamy was favoured as a way to transmit assets along generations (hence negativity in terms like bastards) ... Anything threatening that monogamy marriage pillar of society is feared and frowned upon. That second argument (monogamy as a society model) is closely linked to Christianity. It does not apply to other societies like Islam. Yet despite polygamy being allowed by Islam, their patriarchal model also fears and therefore fights prostitution. We're back to the first reason: once a group (men/religious elite) has reached power it will do everything to prevent people from escaping it hence portraying sex work as sin to prevent women emancipation.

Once these models and values are in place it is extremely difficult to change them. Everybody is afraid of what a totally different society organisation would mean. Men know their role. Women know what expected of them. Even if both sometimes would like to change things, the fear of the unknown engrained by centuries of social codes is often too strong. Typical 'Loss aversion' behaviour at society wide level.

[Colston36]

Taboo means forbidden. And it or they are not forbidden. But they are widely disapproved of or looked down at for a variety of reasons that don't all make sense. Anyhow, they're not going away.

I rather liked the more sensible attitude of some ancient religions whose temples were staffed by ladies of pleasure. Many years ago I went to Efes - ancient Ephesus - where that was the case. the most popular souvenir was a key ring that featured and impressive erect cock.

[daviemac]

Taboo means forbidden. And it or they are not forbidden. But they are widely disapproved of or looked down at for a variety of reasons that don't all make sense. Anyhow, they're not going away.

I rather liked the more sensible attitude of some ancient religions whose temples were staffed by ladies of pleasure. Many years ago I went to Efes - ancient Ephesus - where that was the case. the most popular souvenir was a key ring that featured and impressive erect cock.

According to the Collins English dictionary Taboo means "forbidden or disapproved of".

So apart from the fact most of us understand the context in which the word is used, it is actually one of the correct terms that could be used.

On that note I'm not sure what ancient religion has to do with the way sex work is viewed in the modern day United Kingdom.   

[jesse4585]

On that note I'm not sure what ancient religion has to do with the way sex work is viewed in the modern day United Kingdom.   

Probably nothing directly. But it maybe casts an interesting light on the suggestion another poster made about religion being a main reason for the taboo, and how that relates to Christianity & current UK values.

Like Colston says, prostitution was in several cases sanctified by ancient Greek religion.  While there was still some stigma towards WGs in ancient Greece, it was mostly quite mild, and there were many cases of WGs having influence as independent and wealthy citizens. Huh, several of the most elite type of ancient Greek WGs  (hectaria) ended up marrying some of the most powerful Greek leaders.  So religion in & of itself doesnt have to be anti WG.

There used to be a saying in ancient Greek that there were loads of statues build to honour the beautiful hectaria's , but very few to honour regular wives.

Strong stigma towards prostitutes the West only began in Roman times - and this was well before the Romans became Christian. Christianity was arguably on balance an influence back towards tolerance of prostitution.  Many elements of Christiantity were pro women & even pro WG. There's Christ's example of preventing the stoning of the fallen woman. The fact the "Disciple he loved best' (Mary Magdalene)  was long regarded as a WG (though that's not the mainstream view these last 40 years or so) . Before Christianity took over as the official religion of the Roman empire, it was described by historians as the religion of slaves & women. Right from the early days,  some of the most influential Church fathers like Augustine spoke out in favour of allowing brothels in Christian cities - which is part of why they've often been tolerated down the ages. Much pro sex work advocacy is still done by Christians today.

Which is not to deny many Christians have & continue to be extremely oppressive towards women & WGs. But it's a mixed picture.  Apart  from what was said about religion, I agree with the points made by Tender.French.Kiss.

PS not going to say anything more about religion as I think the mods dont like too much focus on that, even when it's directly linked to punting. But just in case anyone wanted to verify about WGs being largely celebrated  in ancient Greek , but then stigmatised in ancient Rome & the rest of western history, a good book to read is 'Prostitutes and Matrons in the Roman world', esp. the first chapter.

[Thephoenix]

Taboo means forbidden. And it or they are not forbidden. But they are widely disapproved of or looked down at for a variety of reasons that don't all make sense. Anyhow, they're not going away.

I rather liked the more sensible attitude of some ancient religions whose temples were staffed by ladies of pleasure. Many years ago I went to Efes - ancient Ephesus - where that was the case. the most popular souvenir was a key ring that featured and impressive erect cock.

It's also interesting to visit the remains of the brothels in ancient Pompeii, which were permitted socially and legally, with phalluses carved in walls around the city to give directions to the 25+ locations.
They were a social norm for the locals and visitors alike with the walls adorned with erotic drawings representing a menu of the services provided.


Hidden Image/Members Only

[daviemac]

Probably nothing directly. But it maybe casts an interesting light on the suggestion another poster made about religion being a main reason for the taboo, and how that relates to Christianity & current UK values.

Like Colston says, prostitution was in several cases sanctified by ancient Greek religion.  While there was still some stigma towards WGs in ancient Greece, it was mostly quite mild, and there were many cases of WGs having influence as independent and wealthy citizens. Huh, several of the most elite type of ancient Greek WGs  (hectaria) ended up marrying some of the most powerful Greek leaders.  So religion in & of itself doesnt have to be anti WG.

There used to be a saying in ancient Greek that there were loads of statues build to honour the beautiful hectaria's , but very few to honour regular wives.

Strong stigma towards prostitutes the West only began in Roman times - and this was well before the Romans became Christian. Christianity was arguably on balance an influence back towards tolerance of prostitution.  Many elements of Christiantity were pro women & even pro WG. There's Christ's example of preventing the stoning of the fallen woman. The fact the "Disciple he loved best' (Mary Magdalene)  was long regarded as a WG (though that's not the mainstream view these last 40 years or so) . Before Christianity took over as the official religion of the Roman empire, it was described by historians as the religion of slaves & women. Right from the early days,  some of the most influential Church fathers like Augustine spoke out in favour of allowing brothels in Christian cities - which is part of why they've often been tolerated down the ages. Much pro sex work advocacy is still done by Christians today.

Which is not to deny many Christians have & continue to be extremely oppressive towards women & WGs. But it's a mixed picture.  Apart  from what was said about religion, I agree with the points made by Tender.French.Kiss.

PS not going to say anything more about religion as I think the mods dont like too much focus on that, even when it's directly linked to punting. But just in case anyone wanted to verify about WGs being largely celebrated  in ancient Greek , but then stigmatised in ancient Rome & the rest of western history, a good book to read is 'Prostitutes and Matrons in the Roman world', esp. the first chapter.

Are you for real???? You've said too much already so you can have a week's rest.

[unclepokey]

I suspect its taboo for blokes to punt because there's the immediate thought that single men are paying for sex because that's the only way they can get it.

Which is nearly true in my case - I pay for sex because that's the only way I can fuck fit women who are 20 years younger than me.

Clearly the vast majority of married punters aren't going to be advertising the fact they're banging other women for fear of the repercussions.

This punter writes perfectly my own thoughts on the matter and neatly matches sort of the the age gap that i'm presently and happily involved with. If the missus pre-deceases me then happy days are upon a certain lady.

[willie loman]

It's also interesting to visit the remains of the brothels in ancient Pompeii, which were permitted socially and legally, with phalluses carved in walls around the city to give directions to the 25+ locations.
They were a social norm for the locals and visitors alike with the walls adorned with erotic drawings representing a menu of the services provided.


Hidden Image/Members Only

did you see the one with the guy who had a moustache and his female companion was lifting her tunic? uxores centurianes. (centurians wife, for those who didnt do latin)

[Thephoenix]

did you see the one with the guy who had a moustache and his female companion was lifting her tunic? uxores centurianes. (centurians wife, for those who didnt do latin)

I probably did but my visit was about 20 years ago.
I remember our beautiful young Italian guide was happy to describe the paintings in great detail.

[jimbobted]

Some interesting thoughts on this, thanks for the discussion. I do think society in general is very judgemental and illiberal (not just about sex and prostitution), and it's a shame really. People end up repressing who they really are without really realising it - I know I did and didn't realise until far too late.

[sparkus]

Taboo means forbidden. And it or they are not forbidden. But they are widely disapproved of or looked down at for a variety of reasons that don't all make sense. Anyhow, they're not going away.

I rather liked the more sensible attitude of some ancient religions whose temples were staffed by ladies of pleasure. Many years ago I went to Efes - ancient Ephesus - where that was the case. the most popular souvenir was a key ring that featured and impressive erect cock.

'Taboo' was also an alcoholic drink mainly for the ladies decades ago. Its sister version was called 'Mirage', something I'd know all about in a punting context

[willie loman]

I probably did but my visit was about 20 years ago.
I remember our beautiful young Italian guide was happy to describe the paintings in great detail.

it was  a little joke by me, a reference to the well known readers wives pages in porn mags years ago.

[alabama1]

In reply to the OP, i don't think that discussing seeing WG's is a taboo subject amongst most blokes, single or married, especially if the one who brings up the subject is single. I have mentioned to my mates seeing several WG's whilst on my holidays, and the majority of their replies were along the lines of 'Well, that's standard', (with a shrug of the shoulders). I do think it's a taboo subject for most women though to discuss, be they single or married.

[tynetunnel]

Probably nothing directly…

A thought provoking read 

[Thephoenix]

In reply to the OP, i don't think that discussing seeing WG's is a taboo subject amongst most blokes, single or married, especially if the one who brings up the subject is single. I have mentioned to my mates seeing several WG's whilst on my holidays, and the majority of their replies were along the lines of 'Well, that's standard', (with a shrug of the shoulders).

    ****I do think it's a taboo subject for most women though to discuss, be they single or married.****

    ****Or for those men you mentioned to discuss it with those said women????****

[tp69]

It's an interesting discussion. For me, I lost my wife far too young, leaving me with young children. I have no interest in seeing other women, yet seeing a WG now and then is a bit like going to a spa, but with the obvious sexual/physical release. It fulfils a physical need and the transactional nature of it, means I walk away without any emotional attachment.

Strangely, if I was to talk to anyone about it in real life, it would become gossip and reflect poorly on me, and poorly on my children. I'd probably be seen as some kind of deviant as a lot of people have strong negative feelings about it.

It's partly what makes UKP so engaging in that you can discuss the hobby with anonymity.

[Maak]

From some of escorts I have talked to, they revealed most of their clients are married men.

However the world assumes men that see escorts are grotesque single men who can't attract women

[victor989]

I would prefer that punting remained a taboo. If it was completely normal and accepted, it
wouldn't be as much fun as it is now.

[Doc Holliday]

It's an interesting discussion. For me, I lost my wife far too young, leaving me with young children. I have no interest in seeing other women, yet seeing a WG now and then is a bit like going to a spa, but with the obvious sexual/physical release. It fulfils a physical need and the transactional nature of it, means I walk away without any emotional attachment.

Strangely, if I was to talk to anyone about it in real life, it would become gossip and reflect poorly on me, and poorly on my children. I'd probably be seen as some kind of deviant as a lot of people have strong negative feelings about it.

It's partly what makes UKP so engaging in that you can discuss the hobby with anonymity.

Sorry for your loss. My story is similar except probably widowed at an older age than yourself (50) and so children were older. I also had no desire for another relationship at that stage. My view of prostitution was very much the stereotypical and 'off putting one' and therefore not for me either, but a set of circumstances meant I tried it and found that whilst that stereotype did exist, it was not highly prevalent and so it could indeed fulfill my need. What I hadn't accounted for was that it could became somewhat addictive, although in my case there was a strong element of escapism involved in that too.

However I have never been under any illusion that the overwhelming view of society would think poorly of me and indeed could have been very destructive to me 'professionally'. I would also not wish my family members to know (excluding Mrs H)

I think there is certainly more public awareness around sex work and more discussion as a result, but I see only very minimal signs in the last two decades of it becoming more acceptable to Joe Public.

As a result and as you say, online communities are very beneficial.

[Tender.french.kiss]

In reply to the OP, i don't think that discussing seeing WG's is a taboo subject amongst most blokes, single or married

I certainly would refrain from discussing this with my mates. Friendships can change. Secrets can be leaked inadvertently or maliciously. Not worth the risk, too much at stake, for the very same reason it is taboo.

The only mates I discuss it with are you!

[Blackpool Rock]

I certainly would refrain from discussing this with my mates. Friendships can change. Secrets can be leaked inadvertently or maliciously. Not worth the risk, too much at stake, for the very same reason it is taboo.

The only mates I discuss it with are you!

Yeah you mention it to your mate who then mentions it to his wife as he's genuinely concerned about what you may be getting yourself into, his wife tells another trusted friend who tells another and before you know it everyone knows.

Next thing all the women in your circle don't talk to you and treat you differently but also their OH's (your mates) as they are under pressure to distance themselves from you.
Suddenly you're not invited to the BBQ or to watch footy then realise everyone else went for a night out but you knew nothing about it, if you ask you get told "It was a couples do" etc

[jseop109]

I would certainly stick by the rule of never telling a living soul (apart from these boards which, hopefully give anonymity).

Maybe there is something a bit transactional about a lot  (most?) sex - more than it is admitted in polite society. But people get uneasy when the transactional aspect is out in the open, as it is in punting.

It seems to me that a woman who enters into a sexual relationship because of the guy's money is selling herself more completely than one who sells sexual services by the hour, and yet it is the second of these who gets stigmatised.

In the words of Mrs Merton, "So Debbie McGee, what was it that first attracted you to millionaire Paul Daniels?".

[Strawberry]

I have known punters who have told me they have told their mates, family also disability may require family, friends and carers (who are often friends) to know as a way to actually set up a booking. Some punters simply cannot arrange a booking themselves.

A range of reactions have been communicated some say their mates just accept it and some of their friends may actually be secret punters themselves, but I am not sure whether that influences reactions one way or the other. Children of an older widow cut contact when he told them he had been booking escorts in his widowhood. I would guess some people just struggle to imagine their parents, relative engaging in such a taboo activity. Parents of disability clients can be supportive, but also can struggle to imagine their child having sex. It's not too long ago, within some member's lifetimes here that fear of pregnancy outside of marriage was a big thing meaning casual sex was cast as dirty.

Also there are dangers and exploitation does exist.

[Chazz]

I certainly would refrain from discussing this with my mates. Friendships can change. Secrets can be leaked inadvertently or maliciously. Not worth the risk, too much at stake, for the very same reason it is taboo.

The only mates I discuss it with are you!

I've got a mate who's admitted to me that he'd once booked an escort,  and I was on the verge of saying, "me too!" I trust him when he's sober, but he's a bit of a pisshead and can't help leaking information to all and sundry when he's had a few jars. It's a shame, as I think I could give him a few helpful tips!

[akauya]

I certainly would refrain from discussing this with my mates. Friendships can change. Secrets can be leaked inadvertently or maliciously. Not worth the risk, too much at stake, for the very same reason it is taboo.

The only mates I discuss it with are you!

This is so true. Like the majority of us here I also enjoy this hobby in utmost anonymity. However, I also noticed how much we, as social animals, need to connect with our peers to share stories and adventures. To be in a non-judgmental place to confess our sins (for the Catholics among us.)

UKP is a godsend for us. The reviews section, although the primary purpose is to help other punters, it has the one benefit of being our own "diary" (or wank bank if you like). It's nice to reminisce the good (and bad) punting adventures we had. That's why I was fed up when half of my reviews disappeared when OldAdmin changed servers. Gutted I can't reminisce the some of those good times.

I wonder if punting and escorting weren't taboo would we have UKP or would we rely on TrusPilot, TripAdvisor or Google reviews? 

[1599337]

I can only speak for the people in my own life,  but most of the perception of it from them seems to come from:
1) a surprising number of people in the UK still think its illegal
2) presume that all the women doing it are so desperate that they can't ever refuse a client
3) presuming they are almost all illegal immigrants threatened by some pimp
4) not liking the idea of exchanging money for sex,  either as a power dynamic thing or just because they believe its WRONG, nebulously
5) a lot of people just assume that you'd only pay for sex if you were some dog ugly misogynist that couldn't get sex any other way


Weirdly enough I've only ever met one other guy who was OK with and even positive about sex work,  and he was a pretty hardcore feminist, just not the weird kind. Got that opinion out of him after too many drinks. Being as hard a feminist as he was I was surprised that we essentially agreed that its the workers choice and making it legal just keeps everyone safer

[1599337]

Also I'm definetly not the first person to make this point, but I've always found it odd that cheating in relationships seems to be less of a taboo than escorting

[MysteryManNo.7]

I can only speak for the people in my own life,  but most of the perception of it from them seems to come from:
1) a surprising number of people in the UK still think its illegal
2) presume that all the women doing it are so desperate that they can't ever refuse a client
3) presuming they are almost all illegal immigrants threatened by some pimp
4) not liking the idea of exchanging money for sex,  either as a power dynamic thing or just because they believe its WRONG, nebulously
5) a lot of people just assume that you'd only pay for sex if you were some dog ugly misogynist that couldn't get sex any other way


Weirdly enough I've only ever met one other guy who was OK with and even positive about sex work,  and he was a pretty hardcore feminist, just not the weird kind. Got that opinion out of him after too many drinks. Being as hard a feminist as he was I was surprised that we essentially agreed that its the workers choice and making it legal just keeps everyone safer

I think you've covered just about all of the major points I would say too. Indeed for the 1st one before I discovered punting years ago I had no idea that it was legal.

[1599337]

I think you've covered just about all of the major points I would say too. Indeed for the 1st one before I discovered punting years ago I had no idea that it was legal.

Yeah I used to just assume it was illegal when I was younger,  then I went to soho for the first time and saw all those walkups and was very confused about how they could be allowed, then some googling back home revealed the truth. I have to imagine the assumption comes from a mixture of value judgements and how much American media we all consume. Like when I was that young my only point of reference for prostitution was grand theft auto