Illegal to park on pavement

[sir wanksalot]

Can I ask our colleagues in London how does the ban on parking on pavements work?

They're trying to do the same here up'th north but it would render streets unpassable if residents parks their cars entirely on the streets.

[RMwonderer]

Can I ask our colleagues in London how does the ban on parking on pavements work?

They're trying to do the same here up'th north but it would render streets unpassable if residents parks their cars entirely on the streets.

Yep got fined the other day. They even give you a fine now if you park two wheels on the curve and it's a yellow line despite saying parking should be two wheels on the curve. I think I fucked up but I'm not totally clued up about it all tbh

Ignore me if irrelevant but I think if you have a drive and a parking permit you might be able to but double check. Given my booklet of parking tickets I'm probs the worst.

Although I have a 50/50 challenge win rate

[DastardlyDick]

It basically works in the same way that any other parking contravention works, but it's 24/7/365 enforcement. Yellow (and Red) lines are enforceable from the centre of the road to the property line, and include footways and verges - it even has a specific contravention code (62) which is "parked with one or more wheels on any party of an urban road or Clearway other than the carriageway" and it's an "instant" ticket, no "observation period" required. On London's Red Routes, it can be done using CCTV, and TPCSOs from the Met Police Road and Transport Policing Command - on other roads it will be a Council Enforcement Officer (formerly a Traffic Warden). On London Red Routes it's a £160 PCN reduced by 50% if paid within 14 days. You can park with 2 wheels on a Footway in some places - it will (or should be) clearly marked.

[chrishornx]

Yep got fined the other day. They even give you a fine now if you park two wheels on the curve and it's a yellow line despite saying parking should be two wheels on the curve. I think I fucked up but I'm not totally clued up about it all tbh

Ignore me if irrelevant but I think if you have a drive and a parking permit you might be able to but double check. Given my booklet of parking tickets I'm probs the worst.

Although I have a 50/50 challenge win rate

what is the curve?

[Proton]

It's  the same issue here in Wales, especially with new housing estates where road are designed to the minimum legal width and just one small parking space often not near the house. Pavements are too narrow and my mother's a wheelchair users, often has to use the roads to get anywhere even prams have problems, due car owners having to half-park the vehicle onto the pavement. It's even worse in the valleys with tens of thousands of terraced housing and a cars are critical to get anywhere   The Police know of the frustration it causes and do nothing thankfully, if not told to
If Welsh Labour gets their way the would not be any need for privately owned transport, as we all would be more than help to add a few hours to our working day and queue for a bus, in all the Welsh-weather.

[DastardlyDick]

what is the curve?

I expect he means "curb" - auto correct at work, I guess!

[FiveKnuckles]

your council will likely need to sign and mark out the pavements where you may park.  wouldn't be surprised if councils roll it out on the sly and start handing out tickets and hope most don't appeal so they build a budget to buy signage and hire the most expensive contractor (wink wink)

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[DastardlyDick]

your council will likely need to sign and mark out the pavements where you may park.  wouldn't be surprised if councils roll it out on the sly and start handing out tickets and hope most don't appeal so they build a budget to buy signage and hire the most expensive contractor (wink wink)

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In London, because of the blanket ban on footway parking, the Council has to pass a "Resolution" to disapply the legislation, and put up signs (like the one pictured) to show where it is permitted and the same sign with a red line through it, to show where the permission ends.
They have been known to screw it up and apply the permission to a whole road instead of just the marked areas and then try and enforce outside the marked areas, which they can't legally do - needless to say, they don't tell anyone that!

[myothernameis]

In Scotland the parking bill has been delayed until 2023, so at the moment, you can and cant park on the pavements.  And all of this depends on how the owner of the car parks his car on the pavement.   When the parking bill becomes law, in Scotland the driver then can be fined £70

So near to me, last year a take away shop opened up, and they take orders, which then get delivered by the delivery driver.  Now one driver thought, I just park on the pavement, and then the other drivers thought the same

So back to when you can and cant park on the pavement, if you park on the pavement, and there no room for a pedestrian to get by, with any type of pram.   This is an obstruction, and the owner of the car, can be fined, or even the police can tow the car away

Last few months, I had been taking photos of the parked cars, so they could be sent to my local council, for them to take action against the premises.  Two door men came out of a pub, and not happy with me taking photos of the cars, turns out the cars were there.   Got told it illegal to take photos of cars, but I know its not, as Im on a public footpath

So I now ended up send all the photos to a local police officer, and the owners of the cars have been warned not to park on this pavement

[Watts.E.Dunn]

This is what they've done here in the side streets off Mill road Cambridge. Works well least i get parked when visting a certain massage shoppe:)

When this place was built they only had horses and carts so parking didnt come into it, most all of the area was accomodation for the Railway "servants"

Average price now around half a mill!!!

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[lillythesavage]

As far as I am aware everywhere in England, except where the signs telling you to are, you can get a ticket, even for a single wheel slightly on the kerb, same as you can for not being between white lines in marked bays.

Some London boroughs have length restrictions too, 5.4 metres, the reason I got a smaller van. A fella in my mates block in London removed the number plates every time he parked and covered the VIN, never got a ticket or got lifted, apparently if they cannot Id it they cannot touch it 

[daviemac]

As far as I am aware everywhere in England, except where the signs telling you to are, you can get a ticket, even for a single wheel slightly on the kerb, same as you can for not being between white lines in marked bays.

Some London boroughs have length restrictions too, 5.4 metres, the reason I got a smaller van. A fella in my mates block in London removed the number plates every time he parked and covered the VIN, never got a ticket or got lifted, apparently if they cannot Id it they cannot touch it 

It always has been illegal to park on pavements it just isn't enforced very often. Like you say if there's a sign indicating you should park half on the pavement, like one near me shown below, then it's legal. Though you should still only have 2 wheels on.

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[snaitram99]

I expect he means "curb" - auto correct at work, I guess!

You are probably right about auto correct, but unless he's American what he actually means is the kerb (which would not auto correct I hope!) 

[lillythesavage]

It always has been illegal to park on pavements it just isn't enforced very often. Like you say if there's a sign indicating you should park half on the pavement, like one near me shown below, then it's legal. Though you should still only have 2 wheels on.

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That is how I understand it, always have, and it does get enforced in London, as does the over length vehicles even if they have a paid for a permit. All the trucks have flip down plates at the front and cover the rear for enforced Tacho breaks. 

[daviemac]

That is how I understand it, always have, and it does get enforced in London, as does the over length vehicles even if they have a paid for a permit. All the trucks have flip down plates at the front and cover the rear for enforced Tacho breaks. 

I would imagine it would be enforced more in London with the amount of traffic and difficulty parking. Around where I live they don't tend to bother as long as there's enough room for wheelchairs or prams to get past. They will give tickets out around schools if the school run causes problems.

[sir wanksalot]

It always has been illegal to park on pavements it just isn't enforced very often. Like you say if there's a sign indicating you should park half on the pavement, like one near me shown below, then it's legal. Though you should still only have 2 wheels on.

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I interpret "parking on pavement" as being two wheels on the pavement NOT the whole car (which would really be a dick move to do).

My point, and concern, is that where I live there are many terraced streets and on those streets both sides will park two wheels on the pavement otherwise the road would literally be blocked.

Some would argue that residents have to find somewhere else to park but I genuinely don't think that's a feasible solution in dense housing areas.

[suttonporksword]

Like everyone has said depends on the specific restrictions.  If for example it's a red route with red lines you cannot stop at any time. As for roads which have no signs it is offence to obstruct the footway enforced by the council

[DastardlyDick]

That is how I understand it, always have, and it does get enforced in London, as does the over length vehicles even if they have a paid for a permit. All the trucks have flip down plates at the front and cover the rear for enforced Tacho breaks. 

That's why Council Enforcement Officers are allowed to remove anything obscuring the VRM.

[Doc Holliday]

As is often the case the law in the UK is confusing. Then there is enforcement. I had considerable correspondence with a very senior Police officer some years ago.

Firstly London is now relatively clear cut. The Highway Code states you MUST not park on the pavement in London and this can be enforced with a fixed penalty notice.

Currently for elsewhere (although this will likely be changing, hence this thread) the Highway Code states you SHOULD not park on the pavement. This is advisory and therefore leaves it at the discretion of the Police. In most instances they will ignore, unless you are restricting access to pedestrians which is technically a separate offence. The discretionary nature of this may be problematical.

The exception to this is, as Davie points out, where there is a blue sign. This means that as long as you park within the marked area (normally with two wheels on the pavement) you are definitely parked legally.

But it doesn't end there. It is illegal to drive on the pavement, which means that technically, even if you only drive for a few seconds to park, you must have broken the law. What a mess.

You are also allowed to drive across a pavement to access a property, but only if there is a dropped kerb. This is another one where enforcement is highly variable.

[DastardlyDick]

As far as I am aware everywhere in England, except where the signs telling you to are, you can get a ticket, even for a single wheel slightly on the kerb, same as you can for not being between white lines in marked bays.

Parking Restrictions are enforceable from the centre of the carriageway to the property line and include Footways and verges, so you'd get done as if you'd parked on the carriageway, for example, outside a bay. In London footway parking is a specific contravention and is prohibited in all 32 Boroughs by the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 unless the relevant Council have dis applied it, by a Resolution of the full Council. Same applies to Red Routes except that it would be the GLA who have to dis apply.I
What a lot of people don't realise is that on yellow lines, the contravention is "waiting" but on Red Routes it's "stopping" so, if you stop outside a marked bay on a red route, it's an "Instant" ticket, no "observation period" required.

[RMwonderer]

It always has been illegal to park on pavements it just isn't enforced very often. Like you say if there's a sign indicating you should park half on the pavement, like one near me shown below, then it's legal. Though you should still only have 2 wheels on.

Hidden Image/Members Only

It had the sign. I challenged it. I lost. I think the single yellow meant I couldnt park there. I still think I was right as I had a parking permit and I front of my drive it's a yellow line and I never got a ticket

[Doc Holliday]

It had the sign. I challenged it. I lost. I think the single yellow meant I couldnt park there. I still think I was right as I had a parking permit and I front of my drive it's a yellow line and I never got a ticket

The single yellow normally means no parking during certain days/times. You need to look for the sign to determine what the criteria are for that road.

If there is a blue sign allowing parking on the pavement, it will only be valid during the times allowed on the sign for the single yellow.

[Mikeh38]

One of my absolute bugbears is people parking on pavements and stopping pedestrians, disabled people from using the pavement forcing them into the road, my personal view is if you park on the pavement your car should be seized and a 2k fine issued, second offence car destroyed.

[southcoastpunter]

One of my absolute bugbears is people parking on pavements and stopping pedestrians, disabled people from using the pavement forcing them into the road, my personal view is if you park on the pavement your car should be seized and a 2k fine issued, second offence car destroyed.

but surely cars these days are fitted with a device that gives drivers the right to park where the hell they like - its a little button on the car dashboard - all four indicator lights flash to show it on!!!

[sir wanksalot]

One of my absolute bugbears is people parking on pavements and stopping pedestrians, disabled people from using the pavement forcing them into the road, my personal view is if you park on the pavement your car should be seized and a 2k fine issued, second offence car destroyed.

But what do you define as "parking on pavements"? Two wheels on the pavement leaving enough room for pedestrians? Or even two wheels on the pavement is resticting access for pedestrians?

I'm asking as I genuinely want to understand where do people expect the motorists to park their cars then?

[DastardlyDick]

But what do you define as "parking on pavements"? Two wheels on the pavement leaving enough room for pedestrians? Or even two wheels on the pavement is resticting access for pedestrians?

I'm asking as I genuinely want to understand where do people expect the motorists to park their cars then?

In the Legislation that covers this in London "footway parking" is defined as "......one or more wheels on any part of the road, other than the carriageway", which covers footways, or pavements, if you prefer and verges. I think that's pretty clear!
As for where motorists should park cars, either legally on the carriageway, on the drive or in a car park - simples.

[DastardlyDick]

but surely cars these days are fitted with a device that gives drivers the right to park where the hell they like - its a little button on the car dashboard - all four indicator lights flash to show it on!!!

That used to be the case, but most Councils will demand a receipt for a repair. - incidentally, running out of fuel is not a breakdown, legally speaking.

[sir wanksalot]

In the Legislation that covers this in London "footway parking" is defined as "......one or more wheels on any part of the road, other than the carriageway", which covers footways, or pavements, if you prefer and verges. I think that's pretty clear!
As for where motorists should park cars, either legally on the carriageway, on the drive or in a car park - simples.

I mean this with all due respect but this is where people from certain parts of the country demonstrate their ignorance at how the rest of the country may live.

Many residential streets have no "car parks" nearby and (shock, horror) many people don't live in a house with a driveway so again the question remains, where are these people supposed to park?

[DastardlyDick]

I mean this with all due respect but this is where people from certain parts of the country demonstrate their ignorance at how the rest of the country may live.

Many residential streets have no "car parks" nearby and (shock, horror) many people don't live in a house with a driveway so again the question remains, where are these people supposed to park?

I live in a small house with no driveway, so I park on the street. I work in London, so I do realise that not everyone can do that, but London has a very good public transport system so a car really isn't necessary.
What the future Government (of whichever party) needs to do is make public transport a viable alternative to using a car. Unfortunately, this won't happen while the deciding factor in our General Elections is how much can be cut from taxes.

[sir wanksalot]

I live in a small house with no driveway, so I park on the street. I work in London, so I do realise that not everyone can do that, but London has a very good public transport system so a car really isn't necessary.
What the future Government (of whichever party) needs to do is make public transport a viable alternative to using a car. Unfortunately, this won't happen while the deciding factor in our General Elections is how much can be cut from taxes.

Yeah I don't realy think public transport is the alternative to the problem.

Like I said before, parking legally on the street would render many streets unpassable as they cannot accommodate cars parked on either side

[DastardlyDick]

Yeah I don't realy think public transport is the alternative to the problem.

Like I said before, parking legally on the street would render many streets unpassable as they cannot accommodate cars parked on either side

OK, fair enough - what's your solution then?

[sir wanksalot]

OK, fair enough - what's your solution then?

I don't really have one as I wouldn't support that legislation in the first place.

If it ever did get passed in this part of the country then it's likely the police will enforce it as much as they do driving whilst using your mobile phone or riding an electric scooter on the road 

[DastardlyDick]

I don't really have one as I wouldn't support that legislation in the first place.

If it ever did get passed in this part of the country then it's likely the police will enforce it as much as they do driving whilst using your mobile phone or riding an electric scooter on the road 

Wouldn't support which legislation?
The vast majority of places in the UK haven't had Police doing parking enforcement for donkey's years!

[WASA38]

I don't really have one as I wouldn't support that legislation in the first place.

If it ever did get passed in this part of the country then it's likely the police will enforce it as much as they do driving whilst using your mobile phone or riding an electric scooter on the road 

It's not illegal to ride an electric scooter on the road although, absurdly, it is illegal to drive them on cycle lanes. Many scooters have a dual maximum speed option; 4 mph and, for use on the highway only, 8 mph.

Restricting their use to pavements would place an intolerable limitation on the  travel  ability of the disabled . With a 4 mph limit their journeying range would be hopelessly restricted ; furthermore most pavements , certainly in my manor, are so bumpy as to inflict severe pain on already damaged bodies.

[DastardlyDick]

It's not illegal to ride an electric scooter on the road although, absurdly, it is illegal to drive them on cycle lanes. Many scooters have a dual maximum speed option; 4 mph and, for use on the highway only, 8 mph.

Restricting their use to pavements would place an intolerable limitation on the  travel  ability of the disabled . With a 4 mph limit their journeying range would be hopelessly restricted ; furthermore most pavements , certainly in my manor, are so bumpy as to inflict severe pain on already damaged bodies.

I think he's referring to the new(ish) 2 wheeled scooters that  seem to be the in thing at the moment. They're illegal on the road due to no lights (front and rear) and from footpaths and cycleways due to being a powered vehicle. The ones you see in various places are exempt because they are a "trial", are restricted on speed and are geo-fenced. I believe you also have to have at least a provisional licence to use them.

[Doc Holliday]

If it ever did get passed in this part of the country then it's likely the police will enforce it as much as they do driving whilst using your mobile phone or riding an electric scooter on the road 

That's the point, it won't rely on the Police to enforce it but FPN's can be issued by Council enforcement officers as they do now in London. It's then just another parking offence that falls under their remit and we all know how 'the wardens' love their jobs.

The vast majority of places in the UK haven't had Police doing parking enforcement for donkey's years!

Indeed and that erratic nature and inconsistency has also added to the problem. Police Officers have wide ranging discretion in applying the law. Parking enforcement officers much less so which at least adds consistency.

If within a town there are issues with specific roads then the Council can designate it legal to park on the pavement and mark it with a Blue sign and road markings as previously discussed.

[WASA38]

I think he's referring to the new(ish) 2 wheeled scooters that  seem to be the in thing at the moment. They're illegal on the road due to no lights (front and rear) and from footpaths and cycleways due to being a powered vehicle. The ones you see in various places are exempt because they are a "trial", are restricted on speed and are geo-fenced. I believe you also have to have at least a provisional licence to use them.

Ah , yes, of course; thanks,  should have thought of that. Past my bedtime.

I believe such private scooters are liable to be destroyed if caught being used on the road. Seems a bit draconian; might explain the reluctance of the police to act.

[DastardlyDick]

Ah , yes, of course; thanks,  should have thought of that. Past my bedtime.

I believe such private scooters are liable to be destroyed if caught being used on the road. Seems a bit draconian; might explain the reluctance of the police to act.

They are - you should see the number of them in the back yard at Wembley nick!

[DastardlyDick]

That's the point, it won't rely on the Police to enforce it but FPN's can be issued by Council enforcement officers as they do now in London. It's then just another parking offence that falls under their remit and we all know how 'the wardens' love their jobs.

Councils don't issue FPNs for Parking contraventions - you get a PCN, which are more expensive!

[Doc Holliday]

Councils don't issue FPNs for Parking contraventions - you get a PCN, which are more expensive!

Sorry yes PCN   

[Coriniumstud]

Anybody who parks on the pavement near me may need a new wing mirror   

[sir wanksalot]

Ah , yes, of course; thanks,  should have thought of that. Past my bedtime.

I believe such private scooters are liable to be destroyed if caught being used on the road. Seems a bit draconian; might explain the reluctance of the police to act.

No worries.

I see them all the time on public roads near me. Darting from the road to the pavement depending on traffic conditions.

The shocking thing is that the source of these can be easily tied down to Amazon, Ebay and a handful of other retailers yet they're not illegal to sell!

[southcoastpunter]

No worries.

I see them all the time on public roads near me. Darting from the road to the pavement depending on traffic conditions.

The shocking thing is that the source of these can be easily tied down to Amazon, Ebay and a handful of other retailers yet they're not illegal to sell!

i think the shocking thing is that they are not confiscated (enough) by the police. An uninsured car is always confiscated and towed away. If they confiscated the scooter on every occasion, then it would soon stop. People ignore laws and regulations a lot because they rarely get caught and if they do, there is little consequence!

[king tarzan]

As is often the case the law in the UK is confusing. Then there is enforcement. I had considerable correspondence with a very senior Police officer some years ago.

Firstly London is now relatively clear cut. The Highway Code states you MUST not park on the pavement in London and this can be enforced with a fixed penalty notice.

Currently for elsewhere (although this will likely be changing, hence this thread) the Highway Code states you SHOULD not park on the pavement. This is advisory and therefore leaves it at the discretion of the Police. In most instances they will ignore, unless you are restricting access to pedestrians which is technically a separate offence. The discretionary nature of this may be problematical.

The exception to this is, as Davie points out, where there is a blue sign. This means that as long as you park within the marked area (normally with two wheels on the pavement) you are definitely parked legally.

But it doesn't end there. It is illegal to drive on the pavement, which means that technically, even if you only drive for a few seconds to park, you must have broken the law. What a mess.

You are also allowed to drive across a pavement to access a property, but only if there is a dropped kerb. This is another one where enforcement is highly variable.

After all London is the clear cut sparkling diamond of ENGLAND 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

[lillythesavage]

i think the shocking thing is that they are not confiscated (enough) by the police. An uninsured car is always confiscated and towed away. If they confiscated the scooter on every occasion, then it would soon stop. People ignore laws and regulations a lot because they rarely get caught and if they do, there is little consequence!

You are assuming they might be bothered to get out of the car, they would have a car full of them very quickly, an uninsured car has a contractor to take it away, is usually traceable and so is the driver. The car even for scrap will cover costs, but most not claimed get sold at auction, a scooter has very little scrap value,

A scooter has no contractors, no registration and there are thousands of the things, the rider will say no ID and plod are tied up for the day so it is ignored.

[DastardlyDick]

The shocking thing is that the source of these can be easily tied down to Amazon, Ebay and a handful of other retailers yet they're not illegal to sell!

They get round it because there's a warning either as a sticker on the scooter or something in the Instructions and the retailer cannot be blamed if people ignore the sticker and/or don't rtfm.

[sir wanksalot]

They get round it because there's a warning either as a sticker on the scooter or something in the Instructions and the retailer cannot be blamed if people ignore the sticker and/or don't rtfm.

Yes. I think they're legal on private roads so the instructions are probably along those lines.