Wokie wokie, woke warriors awards

[mradventures]

This is a very good point. The problem is that educators and the media woke overlap too much.

I have a child who's now at a nice, provincial, suburban grammar school. Good standards all round, and a very good school. But go to the school's website and on the home page, there's a piece about BLM and George Floyd, saying how the school supports BLM and must investigate its own curriculum blah blah fucking blah.

I am not remotely interested in what the staff and teachers think about things like that. They are entitled to their views but they can keep them to themselves. I am interested solely in how my kid gets educated, and if they start ladling all this crap down my kid's throat, I'll be up at the school and will be challenging them.

If you've got kids, you'll know that it's hard enough steering them through the maze of cultural influences as it is. I've always encouraged my children to think for themselves and make up their own minds, and as a rule, I refrain from discussing my own hard-boiled views about all manner of things. I don't want them to end up thinking like I do, until they've been through the gamut of soft-left, woke-ist views and opinions (like I did, in my day) and have then discarded them (as I did.)

most people really dont know just how much of the wealth of this country is historically shadey, slavery, exploitation, drug trade, stolen etc. we didnt do that because we wherent even alive then, but we do benifit from it, still. (mostly buildings and stuff)

and what happened to george was a lightning rod. its not just about him. but because its easier to discredit him, rather than the "hey, why dont we have police officers who dont kill folks for the lulz and can actually do their jobs with a reasonably high degree of profesionalism" arguement id make. because if you had that, this wouldnt be much of a issue.

also learning about diversity and how bad policing can be is probably really useful, vs how useful studying macbeth is or half the stuff we learn in maths.

[mradventures]

BLM are anarcho-communists, George Floyd a violent career criminal, no, not what should be held up to kids as great examples.

id hold up macus rashford, lewis hamilton, desmond doss up as role models, and others...
but chuvlin n co murdering george did bring this to everyones attention, and he did change the world.
also he had served time, so his debt to society was paid.

also if you dont like george being a big figure.... blame chuvlin. if chuvlin hadnt murdered him, no one would of heard of george.

[King Nuts]

So is it not a good idea for young people to have values where they treat people of different ethnicity, religion and sexuality taught through the curriculum? Not every parent will instill those values into their children. If a school can take the lead then that surely is a good thing.

When I was at school, we studied history, including a lot of very uncomfortable things about Britain's past. Which was right and proper.

The default position should be that schools do NOT highlight and support whatever the latest political cause celebre is, and stick to teaching kids useful stuff so that they come out with a reasonably rounded view of the world, and some basic knowledge about it.

At my school, I had absolutely no idea how any of my teachers voted, or what their personal political views were. Which was right and proper too.

BLM is a political movement, and should be viewed as such, same as any other. No reason not to include it in any lessons about present day politics and economics, but it should not be celebrated or revered above any other similar movement or viewpoint.

[jeanphillipe]

This is the issue and clever marketing/title of the movement BLM.

Of course the statement is true, the political movement and their agenda however...

And this is where there is oft confusion if you say you are anti BLM people assume your anti black persons, and if your against the organisation or have disagreements then your against the statement BLM.

[sir wanksalot]

I don't think XR are woke. I think the way they go about raising a genuine issue is wrong and achieves little.

Whether you agree with Harry and Meghan and the way they do things, they are an A list couple. If they add their name to a cause it will get media attention. So from that respect yes, they do.

As for the tiresome "BBC is woke" argument. It reflects society of the day.

Do you really think that the BBC reflects wider society?

[catweazle]

Do you really think that the BBC reflects wider society?

I'm always intrigued  when the BBC do interviews  in secondary  schools, with the students. There will, usually, be a black student, an Asian one (frequently  a girl in  a hijab) maybe  a Chinese  student. When they include a white student it's often a male with a bad acne problem.

Given the actual  proportion of black/asian/Chinese people in the general population, this is the BBC ensuring  that they are "diverse".

[catweazle]

Deleted, double posted

[Marmalade]

.
also learning about diversity and how bad policing can be is probably really useful, vs how useful studying macbeth is or half the stuff we learn in maths.

Given the shortage of shopkeepers that can’t add up three items in their head, the shortage of mathematicians to develop science and accurate data, and the inability of so many people to construct a decent sentence in their own language, I think this is one of the most ridiculous statements I’ve ever read on UKP — though I have no doubt you believe it sincerely.

 

[King Nuts]

most people really dont know just how much of the wealth of this country is historically shadey, slavery, exploitation, drug trade, stolen etc. we didnt do that because we wherent even alive then, but we do benifit from it, still. (mostly buildings and stuff)

and what happened to george was a lightning rod. its not just about him. but because its easier to discredit him, rather than the "hey, why dont we have police officers who dont kill folks for the lulz and can actually do their jobs with a reasonably high degree of profesionalism" arguement id make. because if you had that, this wouldnt be much of a issue.

also learning about diversity and how bad policing can be is probably really useful, vs how useful studying macbeth is or half the stuff we learn in maths.

Looking at all the wealth of infrastructure I can see around me, and that I use, I don't think any of it came from any of those sources you mention. The building I live in was put up in the 1970s. My car was built in Sweden. The railways I use were built long after slavery was abolished in Britain.

I don't think the drugs trade built the M25 or the Channel Tunnel. Slavery wasn't behind the development of the internet or the Boeing 747 or the internal combustion engine.

I look around at all this stuff, and I see it all as the result of invention, graft and people getting off their bottoms in order to make ideas and inventions work.

[PepeMAGA]

most people really dont know just how much of the wealth of this country is historically shadey, slavery, exploitation, drug trade, stolen etc. we didnt do that because we wherent even alive then, but we do benifit from it, still. (mostly buildings and stuff)

It's harder to name a country that hasn't profited from practices that are considered shady nowadays.
Specifically Britain, Slavery wasn't as beneficial to the economy as made out to be, and the cost of the ban and enforcing it was substantial.
Economic boosts of the past benefit everyone living in the country today, regardless of colour.

[mradventures]

Looking at all the wealth of infrastructure I can see around me, and that I use, I don't think any of it came from any of those sources you mention. The building I live in was put up in the 1970s. My car was built in Sweden. The railways I use were built long after slavery was abolished in Britain.

I don't think the drugs trade built the M25 or the Channel Tunnel. Slavery wasn't behind the development of the internet or the Boeing 747 or the internal combustion engine.

I look around at all this stuff, and I see it all as the result of invention, graft and people getting off their bottoms in order to make ideas and inventions work.

its noteable how much less inferstructure poor countries have. we (uk/western countries) have indirectly benifitied from what happened a long long time ago (where we aquired alot of wealth). we have continously built on what came before, those precursers have enabled us to progress.

While in say the congo or india, we could have a potentially very clever jet engineer, but what can he do in his little village? he might not even know what they are, he/she just sells fruit and veg on the edge of a dirt road, because thats whats available to him/her.

what you say is true, but the situation would be very different without historys shady dealings, we wouldnt be so advanced.

[mradventures]

It's harder to name a country that hasn't profited from practices that are considered shady nowadays.
Specifically Britain, Slavery wasn't as beneficial to the economy as made out to be, and the cost of the ban and enforcing it was substantial.
Economic boosts of the past benefit everyone living in the country today, regardless of colour.

we paid the slave owners off. the actual slaves got nothing. and it was alot of debt the country took on todo that...

[PepeMAGA]

we paid the slave owners off. the actual slaves got nothing. and it was alot of debt the country took on todo that...

The slaves aren't alive today, any of their descendents living in the UK are enjoying the same benefits as the rest of us.

[Marmalade]

The slaves aren't alive today, any of their descendents living in the UK are enjoying the same benefits as the rest of us.

+1 this.

There are gangs and people from Eastern Europe and Pakistan practising slavery in Britain today.
External Link/Members Only
This is a real concern.

In my opinion, things that happened generations ago are part of history and should stay that way. Wrongs cannot be undone. Black people were selling each other into slavery in Africa long before white people arrived. Neither can you backdate morality by several generations. The Roman Catholic Church at one time condoned the slave trade and even used slaves to build churches. This doesn’t make it right, but fortunately we have mostly evolved morally since those times. And although modern slavery is still, horrifyingly, still present in Britain, it is far more prevalent in many African and East Asian countries, including Pakistan. If Britain has has benefitted from slavery in the past, it has also leant lessons better and been more philanthropic than some other countries you might want to live in. I think people should consider that and be thankful to be living in Britain, with all its imperfections.

 

Slavery in Great Britain existed prior to the Roman occupation and until the 12th century.

[King Nuts]

its noteable how much less inferstructure poor countries have. we (uk/western countries) have indirectly benifitied from what happened a long long time ago (where we aquired alot of wealth). we have continously built on what came before, those precursers have enabled us to progress.

While in say the congo or india, we could have a potentially very clever jet engineer, but what can he do in his little village? he might not even know what they are, he/she just sells fruit and veg on the edge of a dirt road, because thats whats available to him/her.

what you say is true, but the situation would be very different without historys shady dealings, we wouldnt be so advanced.

So the reason poor people in poor countries can't improve their infrastructure, is because they're poor and they don't know how to do it. And they don't have the education or opportunities because the West has been ripping them off all this time.

I see.

There's a road in Florida that runs across the state, about 100 miles from Miami to Naples. It's the I-75 motorway. It goes through very hostile terrain - swamps and marshlands and there's about a million alligators everywhere. Snakes too, mosquitoes, the lot. Stop at the side of the road, and you'll see dozens of alligators in the ditch that runs alongside. Summer temperatures nudge 100 deg F and the humidity is unbearable. Before air conditioning became widely available in the 1940s, southern Florida was barely habitable.

And yet... the road got built. People got off their arses and built it.

The Defence rests.

[webpunter]

The road from Miami to Key West is pretty impressive.  Lots of sections over water.  Makes for a good drive.  An engineering masterpiece

So the reason poor people in poor countries can't improve their infrastructure, is because they're poor and they don't know how to do it. And they don't have the education or opportunities because the West has been ripping them off all this time.

I see.

There's a road in Florida that runs across the state, about 100 miles from Miami to Naples. It's the I-75 motorway. It goes through very hostile terrain - swamps and marshlands and there's about a million alligators everywhere. Snakes too, mosquitoes, the lot. Stop at the side of the road, and you'll see dozens of alligators in the ditch that runs alongside. Summer temperatures nudge 100 deg F and the humidity is unbearable. Before air conditioning became widely available in the 1940s, southern Florida was barely habitable.

And yet... the road got built. People got off their arses and built it.

The Defence rests.

[sir wanksalot]

+1 this.

There are gangs and people from Eastern Europe and Pakistan practising slavery in Britain today.
External Link/Members Only
This is a real concern.

In my opinion, things that happened generations ago are part of history and should stay that way. Wrongs cannot be undone. Black people were selling each other into slavery in Africa long before white people arrived. Neither can you backdate morality by several generations. The Roman Catholic Church at one time condoned the slave trade and even used slaves to build churches. This doesn’t make it right, but fortunately we have mostly evolved morally since those times. And although modern slavery is still, horrifyingly, still present in Britain, it is far more prevalent in many African and East Asian countries, including Pakistan. If Britain has has benefitted from slavery in the past, it has also leant lessons better and been more philanthropic than some other countries you might want to live in. I think people should consider that and be thankful to be living in Britain, with all its imperfections.

 

It is also worth repeating that slavery still exists today and usually involving people of colour taking advantage of other people of colour.

It is one reason why I rarely take a decided stance on a particular issue as usually it's a lot more complicated than at first seems.

Some of the treatment by migrant workers in Dubai is appalling yet doesn't receive half the condemnation it should

[mradventures]

So the reason poor people in poor countries can't improve their infrastructure, is because they're poor and they don't know how to do it. And they don't have the education or opportunities because the West has been ripping them off all this time.

I see.

There's a road in Florida that runs across the state, about 100 miles from Miami to Naples. It's the I-75 motorway. It goes through very hostile terrain - swamps and marshlands and there's about a million alligators everywhere. Snakes too, mosquitoes, the lot. Stop at the side of the road, and you'll see dozens of alligators in the ditch that runs alongside. Summer temperatures nudge 100 deg F and the humidity is unbearable. Before air conditioning became widely available in the 1940s, southern Florida was barely habitable.

And yet... the road got built. People got off their arses and built it.

The Defence rests.

the main reason they dont improve the inferstructure much is money, and difficulty. it would be much more difficult to build a clinic or hospital, and furnish it decently in the middle of nowhere. deliveries would be a nightmare. while in the uk we could do it fairly easily.

and yes, mostly the west has done alot of ripping off. External Link/Members Only thats kinda the point of having a empire and colonies. to extract wealth.

spain took a huge amount off south america, america has taken alot from central and south america too (banana republics).

if you traced the money back far enough (that funds our modern stuff) then some % of  it will have been involved in exploitation.

[Marmalade]

I rather expected more lighthearted consensus on this thread but it seems to me there are a few chips on shoulders.

I think some of these groups like BLM have done some good, for instance in America: but I think they’ve done a lot of harm, caused a lot of divisiveness in Britain.

I never looked at the colour of a person’s skin before. Just whether he seemed to be a gentleman. I still try to, but am aware of the aggro that BLM has stirred up. I don’t feel anyone has the right to judge me or anyone else by the colour of skin or, vicariously, by something someone did several generations ago in association with the same colour of skin then, whether that historical person abused or was abused.

People don’t get my respect —or help themselves — by whinging. If you feel hard done by, try to improve your lot. Stand up and be a man, fight your own battles, claim your own honours.

[NIK]

Ah. A political thread! 

[Marmalade]

So the reason poor people in poor countries can't improve their infrastructure, is because they're poor and they don't know how to do it. And they don't have the education or opportunities because the West has been ripping them off all this time.

I see.

Well a lot of them are still fighting each other and probably still would be whether the West had pillaged their resources or not. I have looked into this a bit and also have some personal experience.

Build a school in some backwater of Britain and you hope kids might learn if only the education system can reach them. Try to build a school in Sierra Leone or somewhere and first you have the difficulty that local people don’t want to work — at least not a full shift. Then you get the school or whatever finished and it gets burnt down the following week.

People don’t appreciate things handed to them the way they do if they build or work for them themselves. This constantly blaming the West is 75% whining and would be meaningless were it not for the fact that terrorists inspired groups suggest they should just emigrate or bomb the West as somehow they ‘deserve’ to have things without effort.

They don’t. They really don’t. The few that do, have my respect. 

[Marmalade]

Ah. A political thread! 

Shhssh Nik! 

[webpunter]

As for the likes of BLM IMO they are evenly balanced
They have a chip on both shoulders 

I rather expected more lighthearted consensus on this thread but it seems to me there are a few chips on shoulders.

I think some of these groups like BLM have done some good, for instance in America: but I think they’ve done a lot of harm, caused a lot of divisiveness in Britain.

[Marmalade]

As for the likes of BLM IMO they are evenly balanced
They have a chip on both shoulders 

If I were black I certainly wouldn’t want to be associated with them.

[NIK]

The thread I began recently was removed. Presumably because it turned ‘political’.
If this thread isn’t 100% political I appear be missing something.
Seems to be a lack of consistency here.
Then as I say as so many areas involve politics it is unsurprising.
Maybe there is overt and covert politics?
However I would have thought a thread about  ‘Wokeness’ and BLM is politics at its most overt.

[lillythesavage]

I visited some friends yesterday, there was some sort of " save the planet festival" in the park by them, So we went for a walk around.

The usual shows about how us humans are destroying the planet, powered by diesel generators that do not have the filter systems of vehicles and were choking to walk past.
The finale was an evening light show, powered by those diesel generators and a load of heavy, rusty steel structures, that must cost a fortune to move, lit up with a couple of hundred 19k propane gas bottles, followed by a firework display.

All taxpayer funded of course, and inside the new ULEZ, You really could not make it up.

[PepeMAGA]

The thread I began recently was removed. Presumably because it turned ‘political’.
If this thread isn’t 100% political I appear be missing something.
Seems to be a lack of consistency here.
Then as I say as so many areas involve politics it is unsurprising.
Maybe there is overt and covert politics?
However I would have thought a thread about  ‘Wokeness’ and BLM is politics at its most overt.

Think its culture more than politics.

[Lou2019]

I visited some friends yesterday, there was some sort of " save the planet festival" in the park by them, So we went for a walk around.

The usual shows about how us humans are destroying the planet, powered by diesel generators that do not have the filter systems of vehicles and were choking to walk past.
The finale was an evening light show, powered by those diesel generators and a load of heavy, rusty steel structures, that must cost a fortune to move, lit up with a couple of hundred 19k propane gas bottles, followed by a firework display.

All taxpayer funded of course, and inside the new ULEZ, You really could not make it up.

absolutely ridiculous, like you say you couldn't make it up