Author Topic: West Indies late 1970s/80s vs Australia mid 1990s/early 2000s cricket teams  (Read 3251 times)

Offline king tarzan

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Banned
  • Posts: 15,165
  • Likes: 8
  •  
  • Reviews: 1
Speaking of fast bowlers, what about another of my local county players  - Devon Malcom, extremely fast & unplayable on the right wicket on his day, but as often as not poor & expensive.

I always used to wonder why Malcolm with a West Indian accent was qualified to play for England, whilst Gordon Greenidge with an English accent played for West Indies.

on his day Malcolm was just as good as the West Indian bowlers... i think it was Malcolm Marshall and Ian Bishop who spear headed the West Indies pace attack then in the days of Malcolm for England.
Banned reason: Misogynist who gets free bookings from agencies for pos reviews.
Banned by: daviemac

Offline king tarzan

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Banned
  • Posts: 15,165
  • Likes: 8
  •  
  • Reviews: 1
At the time of the West Indies dominant era the second best team in the world was England IMHO.. England were full of world class players too.. in the form of Graham Gooch.. David Gower.. Ian Botham.. Bob Willis.. Geoff Boycott.. Chris Tavare...

The best test innings of all time was Graham Gooch 137 ( i think) against a fully fledged super strong West Indies pace attack at Headingley on a bowlers paradise grass top pitch and over cast conditions.. according to some the best ever batting innings ever..
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 12:05:53 am by king tarzan »
Banned reason: Misogynist who gets free bookings from agencies for pos reviews.
Banned by: daviemac

Offline Alackofambition5

Ricky Ponting's nickname is "Punter"  :D

Offline Chorley

Ricky Ponting's nickname is "Punter"  :D
That's beacuse he likes a bet. ;)

Offline hermanmunster

Personally I don't think the Australians of late 90 early 00s would have stood a chance against the West Indies at their peak.  There is too much self doubt and nervousness about their potential fallibility lurking beneath the surface of the Australians mental state to make them truly unbeatable.  Once you got past the bravado and arrogance then the self doubt would make them liable to implode (and that was even when Steve Waugh was at his peak).  They are almost unable to operate fully without the ability to sledge as they see that as an vital part of their game plan.

Although I wasn't in their class, I was lucky (unlucky) enough to face some of the West Indian bowlers at the end of their peak period.    The taller bowlers - Walsh, Ambrose, Garner, Croft etc - were fearsome but you could adapt a method of protecting your ribs, or jabbing down on a yorker (although this method didn't add many runs to the scoreboard).  I didn't face Holding (and didn't want to at the time), the long silky smooth straight run-up would have had you terrified before he reached the crease.  The most difficult bowler was undoubtedly Malcom Marshall - the angular, bouncey, fast run-up and quick arm action from a relatively low height made it so difficult to pick up the length and the ball would skid at your throat before you could judge how to get into position.  There was an even smaller guy from Antigua named Vaughan Walsh (google his time in league cricket in the UK) who was quicker than Marshall and loved to hit batsmen.  He was again terrifying, but he had a poor attitude and dislike of authority so never made it past the Leeward Islands team.  Nice memories, but not fun at the time.   

A previous poster mentioned Larry Gomes.  I always felt he was such an important part of the West Indian team if their pomp - if the destructive more glamorous batsmen had a bad day he would always be a thorn in the opponents side and help the team recover (a little like Chanderpaul subsequently).  Very much an unsung hero.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 09:04:52 am by hermanmunster »

Offline foreverchanges


I always used to wonder why Malcolm with a West Indian accent was qualified to play for England, whilst Gordon Greenidge with an English accent played for West Indies.

Greenidge is an interesting character. He came to England in 1965 aged 14 to live with his mother and her new husband.
He played for Hampshire 2nds two years later where he was once held down by his fellow junior players and painted with whitewash! However.....in 1973 after establishing himself in Hampshire's first team, Barbados asked him to play for them and he struggled so much that the crowd used to boo him and shout, " Go home Englishman! Who the hell are you?".

Greenidge said the hate campaign unnerved him so much that he considered returning to England and in his autobiography he says that he still doesn't think he is accepted as a Barbadian as they still called him an Englishman.

He wasnt picked for the Windies tour of England in 73 and was quietly asked if he might be prepared to play for England. He said that if he wasnt picked for the Windies in the next year or two then he would but in 74/75 he was picked to tour Indian and Pakistan...and the rest is history.

There is a brilliant book 'Fire In Babylon' by Simon Lister for anyone interested in the golden age of Windies cricket

Offline Chorley


Offline winkywanky

Speaking of fast bowlers, what about another of my local county players  - Devon Malcom, extremely fast & unplayable on the right wicket on his day, but as often as not poor & expensive.

I always used to wonder why Malcolm with a West Indian accent was qualified to play for England, whilst Gordon Greenidge with an English accent played for West Indies.


If cricket is like most other sports, if you have dual eligibility to play for more than one country, you often have the personal choice of which of the two countries to play for.

Once you've made that choice though, normally you're not allowed to change your mind.

And that choice may be made early on in your career when you're keen to compete on the international stage. So if you were a great up-and-coming prospect who wasn't yet well known, then you might grab at the first opportunity?

As for Greenidge, perhaps he just wanted to play for the Windies because they had a better team at the time anyway?

Offline winkywanky

Greenidge is an interesting character. He came to England in 1965 aged 14 to live with his mother and her new husband.
He played for Hampshire 2nds two years later where he was once held down by his fellow junior players and painted with whitewash! However.....in 1973 after establishing himself in Hampshire's first team, Barbados asked him to play for them and he struggled so much that the crowd used to boo him and shout, " Go home Englishman! Who the hell are you?".

Greenidge said the hate campaign unnerved him so much that he considered returning to England and in his autobiography he says that he still doesn't think he is accepted as a Barbadian as they still called him an Englishman.

He wasnt picked for the Windies tour of England in 73 and was quietly asked if he might be prepared to play for England. He said that if he wasnt picked for the Windies in the next year or two then he would but in 74/75 he was picked to tour Indian and Pakistan...and the rest is history.

There is a brilliant book 'Fire In Babylon' by Simon Lister for anyone interested in the golden age of Windies cricket


That's very interesting.

Online Bustydusty

No doubt in my mind that the West Indies of Garner Holding Marshall and Roberts is the best team that has ever played.very good batting side but the main thing is that bowling attack - no respite whatsoever from great (not just good check the individual records) fast aggressive bowling
Any of this3 would walk into any Australian bowling attack - Australia 2 great bowlers only
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 11:28:29 am by Bustydusty »

Offline Rochelle

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Service Provider
  • Posts: 1,539
  • Likes: 3
  •  
Speaking of fast bowlers, what about another of my local county players  - Devon Malcom, extremely fast & unplayable on the right wicket on his day, but as often as not poor & expensive.

I always used to wonder why Malcolm with a West Indian accent was qualified to play for England, whilst Gordon Greenidge with an English accent played for West Indies.
:rolleyes:
What a ridiculous musing.

Offline wearegreat

I am surprised that no one has mentioned that old Brian Johnston classic _
"The bowler's Holding,the batsman's Willey".
An unforgettable (and humourous) howler. :D :D :D
Banned reason: Multiple Profiles - James, James021, Londontiger, wearegreat
Banned by: CoolTiger

Online Bustydusty

No doubt in my mind that the West Indies of Garner Holding Marshall and Roberts is the best team that has ever played.very good batting side but the main thing is that bowling attack - no respite whatsoever from great (not just good check the individual records) fast aggressive bowling
Any of them 4 would walk into any Australian bowling attack - Australia 2 great bowlers only

Offline hermanmunster

Talking of cricket - has anyone been watching the Dream 11 European Cricket series?  It's compelling because, generally the standard is so bad - they all try so hard and are enthusiastic but can't catch, can't field, can't bowl, most can't bat, but it's still interesting!  It's played on an artificial wicket with a terrible bumpy outfield.  One medium pacer in a game had a spell where 7 out of 8 deliveries didn't land on the artificial wicket - the captain tried (unsuccessfully) to get the bowler to feign injury in order to end the spell.  There is also a wide range of black trainers and inappropriate footwear amongst the players, and it seems that probably 50% of the players are overweight!  Put it this way - Pavel Florin would be a star.

Still too much time on my hands as we come out of lockdown?

But I recommend it more than some of the overpriced ladies that are available at the moment.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 12:16:35 pm by hermanmunster »

Offline king tarzan

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Banned
  • Posts: 15,165
  • Likes: 8
  •  
  • Reviews: 1
No doubt in my mind that the West Indies of Garner Holding Marshall and Roberts is the best team that has ever played.very good batting side but the main thing is that bowling attack - no respite whatsoever from great (not just good check the individual records) fast aggressive bowling
Any of this3 would walk into any Australian bowling attack - Australia 2 great bowlers only

batmen weren't playing the ball
they were fending the ball off....
Banned reason: Misogynist who gets free bookings from agencies for pos reviews.
Banned by: daviemac

Offline Jumping Jack Flash

Revisiting this thread after watching Fire in Babylon. I’m an absolute cricket nut and the West Indies side from the mid-70’s is one of the reasons why I love the game along with growing up a couple of miles from Edgbaston and spending so much time there.

That side had power, skill, ferocity and a certain grace. The West Indies side under Clive Lloyd & Sir Viv didn’t lose a test series for 15 years. I don’t think that has ever been equalled so as good as the Crims were the Windies were better.

Offline tightfoot69

I am too young to remember the great West Indies but that Australia team was phenomenal. Being thrashed by them all time was frustrating but they did not have any weaknesses.

If you made an all time world test team you could easily include 5 or 6 from that era for Australia ( Hayden, Ponting, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath ). Even though they were getting on a bit I think that is what made 2005 so special (my greatest sporting event/moment). England beat a great Australia team.

I always felt a bit for Stuart MacGill. He was a very good spinner but never had a hope of getting past Warne.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 12:39:06 am by tightfoot69 »

Offline king tarzan

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Banned
  • Posts: 15,165
  • Likes: 8
  •  
  • Reviews: 1
I am too young to remember the great West Indies but that Australia team was phenomenal. Being thrashed by them all time was frustrating but they did not have any weaknesses.

If you made an all time world test team you could easily include 5 or 6 from that era for Australia ( Hayden, Ponting, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath ). Even though they were getting on a bit I think that is what made 2005 so special (my greatest sporting event/moment). England beat a great Australia team.

I always felt a bit for Stuart MacGill. He was a very good spinner but never had a hope of getting past Warne.

not Hayden..Mcgrath...  Gavaskar and Hadlee better IMHO...

modern era from LATE 70's for myself THAT I WAS WATCHING WHILST GROWING UP, players that i loved watching, even at county level just to see one of them i would watch and then switch channel to something else once there batting or bowling spell was over..

GAVASKAR
GOOCH
VIVIAN RICHARDS
RICKY PONTING
DRAVID
GILCHRIST
BOTHAM
IMRAN KHAN
HADLEE
MICHAEL HOLDING
DENNIS LILLEE           


obviously missing out Warne, Greenidge, Akram, Lee,Waqar Younis, Yousaf, Tendulkar, the Waugh brothers, Allan Donald, Sean Pollock, VVS Laxman, Brian Lara, Brian Lara, Kevin Pietersen, Bob Willis, Martin Crowe...well that is another super world class team there 2..is a extremely big call.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 06:29:43 am by king tarzan »
Banned reason: Misogynist who gets free bookings from agencies for pos reviews.
Banned by: daviemac

Offline Jumping Jack Flash

I am too young to remember the great West Indies but that Australia team was phenomenal. Being thrashed by them all time was frustrating but they did not have any weaknesses.

If you made an all time world test team you could easily include 5 or 6 from that era for Australia ( Hayden, Ponting, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath ). Even though they were getting on a bit I think that is what made 2005 so special (my greatest sporting event/moment). England beat a great Australia team.

I always felt a bit for Stuart MacGill. He was a very good spinner but never had a hope of getting past Warne.

Without sounding condescending because of my age, that Aussie team was great but England used to generally win the odd test in most series against them; Edgbaston 1997, Headingley 2001 and I think we even won a test in Sydney. Now most of these wins came when the Ashes were already gone but they were still wins. For a period we never got near the West Indies and they would beat us 5-0 in our own backyard. We weren’t a bad side back then - we won the Ashes home and away in the mid-80’s but we never got near the West Indies. They were a fearsome outfit with some world class players. Viv Richards was the most destructive batsman that I’ve seen, of the modern era only Pietersen comes close.

I was thrilled when we finally beat them in a home series in 2000, it was incredibly special for those of us of a certain age, I’m 53. 2005 was fantastic because it was the Ashes and that’s the pinnacle but wins against the West Indies are still memorable and it’s sad that they’re not as strong as they were.

I think Warne and McGrath would get into any world eleven, but so would several West Indians like Sir Viv, Malcolm Marshall and Mikey aka Whispering Death Holding.

Offline Jumping Jack Flash

not Hayden..Mcgrath...  Gavaskar and Hadlee better IMHO...

modern era from LATE 70's for myself THAT I WAS WATCHING WHILST GROWING UP, players that i loved watching, even at county level just to see one of them i would watch and then switch channel to something else once there batting or bowling spell was over..

GAVASKAR
GOOCH
VIVIAN RICHARDS
RICKY PONTING
DRAVID
GILCHRIST
BOTHAM
IMRAN KHAN
HADLEE
MICHAEL HOLDING
DENNIS LILLEE           


obviously missing out Warne, Greenidge, Akram, Lee,Waqar Younis, Yousaf, Tendulkar, the Waugh brothers, Allan Donald, Sean Pollock, VVS Laxman, Brian Lara, Brian Lara, Kevin Pietersen, Bob Willis, Martin Crowe...well that is another super world class team there 2..is a extremely big call.

Good call but Sachin would get in ahead of Punter Ponting for me and Gordon Greenidge for Gooch.

Offline Spencer Fobby

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1,308
  • Likes: 0
  •  
  • Reviews: 6
One fundamental difference between these two sides was their attitude.  The West Indies played their fierce cricket within the true spirit of the game.  A game that has stood as a byword for fairness and honour.  The Australians brought sledging ("mental disintegration") to the fore and used it along with their awesome talents.  The spirit of Australian cricket reached it's natural nadir with sandpaper-gate. 

I think head for head the WI just nudge ahead as a team and players, but as cricketers they are head and shoulders above the Aussies because they had so much more fucking dignity!  (as Jumping Jack Flash says; they had GRACE)  And that at a time when racism was rife.

The WI win.  Hands down.

And just as an aside, it's good to see the team is such good shape - I almost want them to win this series...
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 09:12:33 am by Spencer Fobby »
Banned reason: Abuse of mod.
Banned by: daviemac

Offline WelshMichael

One fundamental difference between these two sides was their attitude.  The West Indies played their fierce cricket within the true spirit of the game.  A game that has stood as a byword for fairness and honour.  The Australians brought sledging ("mental disintegration") to the fore and used it along with their awesome talents.  The spirit of Australian cricket reached it's natural nadir with sandpaper-gate. 

I think head for head the WI just nudge ahead as a team and players, but as cricketers they are head and shoulders above the Aussies because they had so much more fucking dignity!  (as Jumping Jack Flash says; they had GRACE)  And that at a time when racism was rife.

The WI win.  Hands down.

And just as an aside, it's good to see the team is such good shape - I almost want them to win this series...

Agree with this, at their peak the Windies had that swagger great sides have while the Aussies as great as they were came over at times as arrogant bullies.

Offline hermanmunster

not Hayden..Mcgrath...  Gavaskar and Hadlee better IMHO...

modern era from LATE 70's for myself THAT I WAS WATCHING WHILST GROWING UP, players that i loved watching, even at county level just to see one of them i would watch and then switch channel to something else once there batting or bowling spell was over..

GAVASKAR
GOOCH
VIVIAN RICHARDS
RICKY PONTING
DRAVID
GILCHRIST
BOTHAM
IMRAN KHAN
HADLEE
MICHAEL HOLDING
DENNIS LILLEE           


obviously missing out Warne, Greenidge, Akram, Lee,Waqar Younis, Yousaf, Tendulkar, the Waugh brothers, Allan Donald, Sean Pollock, VVS Laxman, Brian Lara, Brian Lara, Kevin Pietersen, Bob Willis, Martin Crowe...well that is another super world class team there 2..is a extremely big call.

KT - you've got some great players there.

My choice would be

1) Hayden
2) Tendulkar
3) Dravid
4) Lara
5) Richards
6) Botham
7) Gilchrist
8) Wasim Akram
9) Hadlee
10) Warne
11) Holding

In an effort to include Tendulkar I had to choose 2 of Greenidge, Sehwag, Tendulkar and Dravid for places 2 & 3. Whilst not being a test opener I included Tendulkar as I'm sure he would be up to the challenge.

Obviously I have left out "greats" such as Murali, McGrath, Waughs, Ponting, Waqar Younis and Chris Cowdrey.  Gavaskar was very good but he stood out in an Indian side that couldn't be compared to today's side - his stats were good, but he wasn't a team player.  Lillee was scary (more as a character) but not lightening quick. Botham gets in to balance the team perfectly.  3 similar style batsmen at 7, 8 and 9 might not be ideal?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 12:03:24 pm by hermanmunster »

Offline hermanmunster

One fundamental difference between these two sides was their attitude.  The West Indies played their fierce cricket within the true spirit of the game.  A game that has stood as a byword for fairness and honour.  The Australians brought sledging ("mental disintegration") to the fore and used it along with their awesome talents.  The spirit of Australian cricket reached it's natural nadir with sandpaper-gate. 

I think head for head the WI just nudge ahead as a team and players, but as cricketers they are head and shoulders above the Aussies because they had so much more fucking dignity!  (as Jumping Jack Flash says; they had GRACE)  And that at a time when racism was rife.

The WI win.  Hands down.

And just as an aside, it's good to see the team is such good shape - I almost want them to win this series...

I agree - and did you know that the "great" Australian side of 90s>00s would meet to practice and prepare their sledging - outrageous!  They freely admitted that it was a important part of their game that they could not be without.

The current West Indies side is held together fantastically by Jason Holder, a fine man, dignified, decent, intelligent and fair - respected by all.

Offline Jumping Jack Flash

KT - you've got some great players there.

My choice would be

1) Hayden
2) Tendulkar
3) Dravid
4) Lara
5) Richards
6) Botham
7) Gilchrist
8) Wasim Akram
9) Hadlee
10) Warne
11) Holding

In an effort to include Tendulkar I had to choose 2 of Greenidge, Sehwag, Tendulkar and Dravid for places 2 & 3. Whilst not being a test opener I included Tendulkar as I'm sure he would be up to the challenge.

Obviously I have left out "greats" such as Murali, McGrath, Waughs, Ponting, Waqar Younis and Chris Cowdrey.  Gavaskar was very good but he stood out in an Indian side that couldn't be compared to today's side - his stats were good, but he wasn't a team player.  Lillee was scary (more as a character) but not lightening quick. Botham gets in to balance the team perfectly.  3 similar style batsmen at 7, 8 and 9 might not be ideal?

I assume that the inclusion of Chris Cowdrey was a typo? :lol: :lol:

Offline WelshMichael

Some good best XIs mentioned above. To show how tough a job it is to fit the greatest cricketers in one team, no one has mentioned Jacques Kallis:

External Link/Members Only

One of the very greatest ever. Saw him when he played for Glamorgan for a time. Hell of a player who's figures match up with any of the great all-rounders.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 02:30:08 pm by WelshMichael »

Offline king tarzan

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Banned
  • Posts: 15,165
  • Likes: 8
  •  
  • Reviews: 1
Some good best XIs mentioned above. To show how tough a job it is to fit the greatest cricketers in one team, no one has mentioned Jacques Kallis:

External Link/Members Only

One of the very greatest ever. Saw him when he played for Glamorgan for a time. Hell of a player who's figures match up with any of the great all-rounders.

Malcolm Marshall, Shoaib Akhtar, Javed Miandad..VVS Laxman..Jeff Thompson.. S Chanderpaul..M Jayawardene.. D Gower
Banned reason: Misogynist who gets free bookings from agencies for pos reviews.
Banned by: daviemac

Offline foreverchanges

1. Barry Richards
2. Gordon Greenidge
3.Viv Richards
4.Brian Lara
5.Sachin Tendulkar
6.Garry Sobers
7.Adam Gilchrist w/k
8.Malcolm Marshall
9.Shane Warne
10.Michael Holding
11.Dennis Lillee.

A few years ago I met Deryck Murray who was the Windies wicket keeper from the late 60s to late 70s and I asked him who was the fastest bowler he kept to and he said Holding although he reckoned Andy Roberts was the best. His best comment though was about Sobers when he said, "not only was he a brilliant batsman, a brilliant fast bowler, a brilliant swing bowler, a brilliant spin bowler, a brilliant fielder....but he was also a better wicket keeper than me!" :D

« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 06:53:22 pm by foreverchanges »

Offline hermanmunster

I assume that the inclusion of Chris Cowdrey was a typo? :lol: :lol:
Just a joke to see who was paying attention.

Offline Chorley

Stuart Magill. A world class leg spinner who'd probably have  had 300+ Test wickets in any other era. Unfortunately for him some bloke called Shane Warne lobbed a few pies in the nets and got selected instead.  :D
External Link/Members Only
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 10:32:14 pm by Chorley »

Online Bustydusty

1. Barry Richards
2. Gordon Greenidge
3.Viv Richards
4.Brian Lara
5.Sachin Tendulkar
6.Garry Sobers
7.Adam Gilchrist w/k
8.Malcolm Marshall
9.Shane Warne
10.Michael Holding
11.Dennis Lillee.

A few years ago I met Deryck Murray who was the Windies wicket keeper from the late 60s to late 70s and I asked him who was the fastest bowler he kept to and he said Holding although he reckoned Andy Roberts was the best. His best comment though was about Sobers when he said, "not only was he a brilliant batsman, a brilliant fast bowler, a brilliant swing bowler, a brilliant spin bowler, a brilliant fielder....but he was also a better wicket keeper than me!" :D

Nice to see the great Barry Richards getting a mention - fantastic player and such a shame he only played a few tests.People rightly say what a great batsmen Greenidge was but he was undoubtedly Hampshire’s second best opener
Agree with most of your team tbh although I’d drop Lillee Warne and Holding for Garner and Ambrose and Murali
Still trying to work out who I could drop tho to get Kallis in  :unknown: - probably have to be Greenidge and move Tendulkar up to open
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 10:34:37 pm by Bustydusty »