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Author Topic: Steroids  (Read 2511 times)

Offline Rooster

So I'm getting on in years and I read that a small regular dose of anabolic steroid can do wonders for the sex drive and maintaining muscle tone and a generally more youthful and vigorous attitude. Is it legal to buy them on the grey market or can you get them on prescription even if you don't need them for medical reasons? I buy Viagra etc from Dr Fox website but they don't do steroids. Not looking to become the Incredible Hulk, just want a few more years of fun before my appointment with the Reaper.

Offline Honolulu

You are thinking about Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT).  Popular in the States. 

You'll have difficulty getting it on the NHS.  And you'd be bonkers trying to self administrate without proper medical supervision.  You need to have your blood tested frequently to make sure you aren't fucking yourself up.

By the way once your on it, you'll pretty much stop natural production of Testosterone.

The suggestion to boost naturally, lift heavy weights, sleep 8 hours a day. Eat a healthy balanced meal.  But I suppose that's too hard for most people.


Offline Brazilian Martian

No point in taking steroids unless you live in the gym and I mean hitting the gym hard otherwise they will make you put on alot of fat.

Offline thekidah01

No point in taking steroids unless you live in the gym and I mean hitting the gym hard otherwise they will make you put on alot of fat.


And a small cock. Not great for a punter.

Offline Brazilian Martian


And a small cock. Not great for a punter.

 :sarcastic: :sarcastic: not great for anybody

Offline bunny84

First of all go too your doc and say you want your testosterone levels checked . Tell your doc you feel tired all the time so u can your test levels checked

People who get on test are on it for life

Hit with weights or lifting heavy or both makes a massive difference to your sex drive . When I was having PT sessions my sex drive was far to high .

Offline MilleMiglia

You are thinking about Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT).  Popular in the States. 

You'll have difficulty getting it on the NHS.  And you'd be bonkers trying to self administrate without proper medical supervision.  You need to have your blood tested frequently to make sure you aren't fucking yourself up.

By the way once your on it, you'll pretty much stop natural production of Testosterone.

The suggestion to boost naturally, lift heavy weights, sleep 8 hours a day. Eat a healthy balanced meal.  But I suppose that's too hard for most people.

As above - do not self medicate. Messing with hormone levels can have serious consequences, not to mention the quality control issue when buying on the internet.

Offline Blackpool Rock


And a small cock. Not great for a punter.
My understanding is that Roids can damage your heart and also lead to a heart attack so unless prescribed for medical reasons you's be crazy to take them.
There are a few big guys who do weights down my gym (saw one try using the bike once and he was shit on it and gave up after 5 minutes), anyway despite being muscle men they never get showered / changed, wonder why  :unknown:

Offline Trenlover

ive used them , as per my name

they seriously fucked with my sex drive, sometimes id be horny non stop and others couldnt get an erection and even at times losing sensitivity in my penis. overall id say my libido and sex performance was better before i ever started using steroids.

the problem is you have to stay on it for life, as ball shrinkage is guaranteed, coming off a cycle is murder ( im 35 ) , at this point im not sure if im going to do it again because i want kids at some point and it just screws with my libido too much.

If I was older and wasnt worried about my balls shrinking i could just stay on it for life. aslong as your sensible with the dose there wont be any negative health effects and plenty of positives.

I gained 4kg of muscle without exercise while on it, ( although it mostly went when I stopped )

get you testosterone measured at doctors first before doing anything
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 11:40:16 am by Trenlover »

Offline Trenlover

I just want to add the best thing I ever used for libido was cabergoline, increases penis sensitivity, desire,  and the orgasms are earth shattering.

would love to get more of it.

Offline PhelTGrik

Hormone nerd checking in.

If you're concerned about not having as much 'va-va-voom' as a result of age related decline or low testosterone then I would first suggest asking your doctor for the appropriate blood tests. You need 2-3 samples to be taken around 9-10am as this is when serum (blood) testosterone levels are at their highest. You'll want to know the following:

Total test - the amount you produce, the NHS considers anything above 300ng/dl to be 'normal', but tell an 18 year old that and he'd be within his rights to go "In the prime of my life having the testosterone levels of an 80 year old is normal?".

Free test - this is the amount of test that is not bound up in protein and is free to act on receptor sites around the body...you can for example have high normal total test, but for some reason low free test.

Oestrodiol - This is a measure of how much female hormone you have, you need some of this for joint health, but the biggest contributor in raised oestrodiol in men is excessive body fat - an enzyme called aromatase is produced in fat, this converts testosterone in oestrogen, more fat, more aromatase, more conversion etc.

The body has a number of sensory mechanisms for recognising how much testosterone is available (hypothalamic gonadal axis...brain/bollock relationship), these sensors however can't tell the difference between natural test from the testicles and test that's been injected. They simply recognise that you have 'alot' and the brain sends a signal to down regulate the production of hormones that make the testicles produce testosterone. This is where the 'your balls will shrink' thing comes from, an organ not doing it's job will shrink, a bit like muscle atrophy in bed ridden/paralysed people.

 You can counter this while on steroids by injecting something called HCG which stimulates those precursor hormones. You won't get that on the NHS though because few endocrinologists in this country specialise in hormones from a male well being perspective.

Steroids generally as a whole increase the rate of muscle protein synthesis, which is the technical way of saying the increase the rate at which you build muscle/muscle damage is repaired. It's why people can put on muscle without exercising when the right dosages/compounds are used. The issues are that:

Oral steroids are toxic to the liver, so if you like to have a beer or two, it's a no go. This is less of an issue with injections.

Steroids in general can cause some wonkiness with cholesterol as well as increasing red blood cell count and causing water retention (all of which lead to the blood pressure/ heart disease related aspects). A lot of this is mediated by diet and lifestyle management as well as regular blood work.

Steroids have half lives - in the US, the main forms of test used are Cypionate and Enthanate, these require injection ~3-5 days to maintain stable testosterone levels (and avoid mood swings). In the UK the standard was Sustanon which is a blend of 3 types of testosterone that was thought to extend the injection schedule out to every 14 days, in reality from what I've been able to gather people are most satisfied with injection schedules closer to 7-10 days. Nebido (Test Undecanoate) is being introduced which after some loading shots the guidelines stipulate every 12 weeks, but again some anecdotal reporting suggests better levels stability at 8-10 weeks.

You can still have oestrogen conversion activity going on (and it's the oestro specifically that causes the water retention, it's why women tend to bloat/puff up a bit as their hormone levels go all over the place during cycle) - this requires the use of an aromatase inhibitor to manage, good luck getting these on the NHS because it's not in the steriod guidelines/curriculum but it's usually a 1 or 10mg pill of something taken alongside injections or every 3 days.

Cycling off tends to be problematic as you need to 'reboot' that brain/ball connection, so for a period of time you're going to have cratered testosterone levels (and lowered musle protein synthesis hence 'the gains fall off') and it can take weeks/months to restore natural function. Because the testes lay dormant during this time, creation of new sperm cells may also take some time to come back (yes, taking steroids for as much as one twelve week cycle can make you infertile, possibly for life).

Now with the grey/black market/internet of things...what you have to consider that while it is not illegal for you to purchase, you're going to have no idea whether the gear you are buying has been made in a half way decent underground lab, or if it's been mixed in a thai kitchen sink. Almost all steroids are in an oil suspension, if that oil is dirty/carries impurities then you can say hello to cysts and abscesses.

So, by all means, get your levels checked out (you pay towards the NHS so, might as well get the tests out of them) and there are things you can do to improve test levels such as lose body fat, get more good fats in your diet (omega 3s, so salmon, walnuts and almonds), get more magnesium and zinc and vitamin D in, better sleep, cut back on the booze but it really is a case of once you're on steroids, you may as well stay on them.

Not something to jump on without thorough research into present levels, on going supply, administration and management of monitoring and emergency scenarios.

Offline Rooster

Thanks guys, some really good info there. I'm not going to jump into this, my enquiry was based on this article in the Guardian:  External Link/Members Only

Probably not going to risk it then. I had my test checked about 2 years ago on the NHS and it came back "normal". I already lift 2-3 times a week but I'll try to lift heavier and get more cardio in and eat better. I am overweight but reasonably fit, I can run several miles even though I rarely go out running and have decent muscle under the fat layer. Maybe I'll get PT sessions too to make me work.

Thanks for the advice.

Offline Brazilian Martian

Thanks guys, some really good info there. I'm not going to jump into this, my enquiry was based on this article in the Guardian:  External Link/Members Only

Probably not going to risk it then. I had my test checked about 2 years ago on the NHS and it came back "normal". I already lift 2-3 times a week but I'll try to lift heavier and get more cardio in and eat better. I am overweight but reasonably fit, I can run several miles even though I rarely go out running and have decent muscle under the fat layer. Maybe I'll get PT sessions too to make me work.

Thanks for the advice.

How much do you normally lift ? I would advise better cardiovascular routines and eating better is vital cutting out carbs. But I would definitely stay clear of roids

Offline Trenlover

in my experience lifestyle interventions do not affect testosterone levels markedly,

testosterone levels are mostly determined by genetics and age. Also keep in mind the androgen receptor expression is heavily dependent on genetics.

eating clean and exercising might improve libido and sexual performance BUT it probably isnt because its raising testosterone.

the reason eating and obesity affects it is because those 2 things cause insulin secretion to be very high which acts on aromatase to increase conversion of T to E which feeds back negatively to the brain-balls axis. So basically lowering your insulin will improve your hormone levels BUT it wont improve it past what is "normal" for you age and genetics.

there are also psychological changes while on testosterone.

When I was on I was extremely confident, I thought I was better than everyone else ( literally thats how your brain is thinking for you ), your attitude becomes very positive and you feel you can accomplish anything. Also my temper was shorter. Even minor things like someone accidentally hitting me with their basket in a supermarket would make me stare at them angrily.

I wouldnt say I was more confrontational BUT I reacted to confrontations/challenges from others in much more aggressive manner,

« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 03:14:26 pm by Trenlover »

Offline covertlook

Anabolics are great if you want to grow breasts [unless you also take tamoxifen], and also cause heart disease - a couple of years ago some one at a local gym (who was using lots of anabolics) had a fatal heart attack, aged 42. On balance, they are not to be recommended.

Offline megaman

a docter told me stuff like that well make your penis smaller. and taking testosterone boosters can do long term damage too small balls maybe.
it may work for some people but its a risk you take. the problem is with steroids stuff like that you have too keep taking and taking it and if you stop your come down low.

Online badsin


Hit with weights or lifting heavy or both makes a massive difference to your sex drive . When I was having PT sessions my sex drive was far to high .

Check with your doctor.

I agree with the above, a regular bit of exercise will definitely improve your libido. Steroids are to be avoided, unless prescribed.
Resistance training is really good for you, and youd be surprised how quickly you can feel / see results :hi:

Offline JEH7376

Fucking hell, trenlover and PilTbGreek or whatever your name is, those are two of the best concise summaries of roiding I have ever read. Fair play.

Offline peter purves

I just want to add the best thing I ever used for libido was cabergoline, increases penis sensitivity, desire,  and the orgasms are earth shattering.

would love to get more of it.

What is this?

Cheers
Banned reason: Can't / won't take advice.
Banned by: daviemac

Offline Trenlover

What is this?

Cheers

Just read the Wikipedia article on it.

basically its an expensive and hard to get drug, it treats prolactin by acting on dopamine sites,

it makes sex feel 10x better, and like I said the orgasms were seriously the best ever, although it is reported to lower the refractory period I didnt experience that, mine stayed the same on it. I also didnt get any compulsive behaviors on it like gambling, it did increase anxiety alot tho which is the only negative for me. Also a slight tendency towards insomnia.

it could make punting even more addictive because of how good it makes sex :diablo:




Offline Delfrommem

Just read the Wikipedia article on it.

basically its an expensive and hard to get drug, it treats prolactin by acting on dopamine sites,

it makes sex feel 10x better, and like I said the orgasms were seriously the best ever, although it is reported to lower the refractory period I didnt experience that, mine stayed the same on it. I also didnt get any compulsive behaviors on it like gambling, it did increase anxiety alot tho which is the only negative for me. Also a slight tendency towards insomnia.

it could make punting even more addictive because of how good it makes sex :diablo:

Looks like you can get this stuff at chemist direct. I might give it a go.  :thumbsup:

Offline Turtle Z

Hormone nerd checking in.

If you're concerned about not having as much 'va-va-voom' as a result of age related decline or low testosterone then I would first suggest asking your doctor for the appropriate blood tests. You need 2-3 samples to be taken around 9-10am as this is when serum (blood) testosterone levels are at their highest. You'll want to know the following:

Total test - the amount you produce, the NHS considers anything above 300ng/dl to be 'normal', but tell an 18 year old that and he'd be within his rights to go "In the prime of my life having the testosterone levels of an 80 year old is normal?".

Free test - this is the amount of test that is not bound up in protein and is free to act on receptor sites around the body...you can for example have high normal total test, but for some reason low free test.

Oestrodiol - This is a measure of how much female hormone you have, you need some of this for joint health, but the biggest contributor in raised oestrodiol in men is excessive body fat - an enzyme called aromatase is produced in fat, this converts testosterone in oestrogen, more fat, more aromatase, more conversion etc.

The body has a number of sensory mechanisms for recognising how much testosterone is available (hypothalamic gonadal axis...brain/bollock relationship), these sensors however can't tell the difference between natural test from the testicles and test that's been injected. They simply recognise that you have 'alot' and the brain sends a signal to down regulate the production of hormones that make the testicles produce testosterone. This is where the 'your balls will shrink' thing comes from, an organ not doing it's job will shrink, a bit like muscle atrophy in bed ridden/paralysed people.

 You can counter this while on steroids by injecting something called HCG which stimulates those precursor hormones. You won't get that on the NHS though because few endocrinologists in this country specialise in hormones from a male well being perspective.

Steroids generally as a whole increase the rate of muscle protein synthesis, which is the technical way of saying the increase the rate at which you build muscle/muscle damage is repaired. It's why people can put on muscle without exercising when the right dosages/compounds are used. The issues are that:

Oral steroids are toxic to the liver, so if you like to have a beer or two, it's a no go. This is less of an issue with injections.

Steroids in general can cause some wonkiness with cholesterol as well as increasing red blood cell count and causing water retention (all of which lead to the blood pressure/ heart disease related aspects). A lot of this is mediated by diet and lifestyle management as well as regular blood work.

Steroids have half lives - in the US, the main forms of test used are Cypionate and Enthanate, these require injection ~3-5 days to maintain stable testosterone levels (and avoid mood swings). In the UK the standard was Sustanon which is a blend of 3 types of testosterone that was thought to extend the injection schedule out to every 14 days, in reality from what I've been able to gather people are most satisfied with injection schedules closer to 7-10 days. Nebido (Test Undecanoate) is being introduced which after some loading shots the guidelines stipulate every 12 weeks, but again some anecdotal reporting suggests better levels stability at 8-10 weeks.

You can still have oestrogen conversion activity going on (and it's the oestro specifically that causes the water retention, it's why women tend to bloat/puff up a bit as their hormone levels go all over the place during cycle) - this requires the use of an aromatase inhibitor to manage, good luck getting these on the NHS because it's not in the steriod guidelines/curriculum but it's usually a 1 or 10mg pill of something taken alongside injections or every 3 days.

Cycling off tends to be problematic as you need to 'reboot' that brain/ball connection, so for a period of time you're going to have cratered testosterone levels (and lowered musle protein synthesis hence 'the gains fall off') and it can take weeks/months to restore natural function. Because the testes lay dormant during this time, creation of new sperm cells may also take some time to come back (yes, taking steroids for as much as one twelve week cycle can make you infertile, possibly for life).

Now with the grey/black market/internet of things...what you have to consider that while it is not illegal for you to purchase, you're going to have no idea whether the gear you are buying has been made in a half way decent underground lab, or if it's been mixed in a thai kitchen sink. Almost all steroids are in an oil suspension, if that oil is dirty/carries impurities then you can say hello to cysts and abscesses.

So, by all means, get your levels checked out (you pay towards the NHS so, might as well get the tests out of them) and there are things you can do to improve test levels such as lose body fat, get more good fats in your diet (omega 3s, so salmon, walnuts and almonds), get more magnesium and zinc and vitamin D in, better sleep, cut back on the booze but it really is a case of once you're on steroids, you may as well stay on them.

Not something to jump on without thorough research into present levels, on going supply, administration and management of monitoring and emergency scenarios.

Great post, I'm not remotely interested in steroids but nonetheless an interesting post.  :hi:

Offline OakTree

Great post, I'm not remotely interested in steroids but nonetheless an interesting post.  :hi:

Agreed! An excellent informative post by PhelTGrik.


Jonnybegood

  • Guest
There is a lot of evidence to show that, in men especially, hormonal response can be manipulated by fasting and exercise. I've been following an intermittent fasting plan for about 3 months. Not only have I lost 2 stone I've noticed an increase in libido. Heavy resistance exercise and high intensity interval training has also been shown to increase HGH and testosterone production.

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only

Offline MilleMiglia

Looks like you can get this stuff at chemist direct. I might give it a go.  :thumbsup:

It's prescription only -  I strongly suggest that you don't go asking your G.P. for it.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 07:27:22 am by MilleMiglia »

Offline usingmyspareemail

TRT user (/evangelist) here - some really useful comments above - especially PhelTGrik.

I started TRT (testosterone enanthanate - I also take anastrozole to counter gyno) after getting tested (for just about everything as part of a general check up) by my GP. After finding out that my testosterone was low I started on TRT. It was almost an overnight change: my mood became much better, I had more energy, I started getting raging erections again first thing in the morning, and my libido shot up - it was like knocking off 20 years.
It has also helped me recover from working out more quickly, so that I can squeeze a couple of extra workouts into my week - and that has led to me having more muscle, less fat, and better cardio. Being a bit paranoid about cholesterol and heart issues has also helped me improve my diet, and caused me to see my GP more often (as a precautionary measure).

I wouldn't go near oral steroids because of the risk of liver damage. The intramuscular injections for test enan are simple and quick, even if you've never given yourself injections before.

For now, treatment for low T seems to be much more normal in the States than here. The amount of nonsense spouted about steroids is extraordinary - while a gym may be the easiest place to obtain them, many gym bros are totally clueless about what they are taking, and people often won't admit that they are using them.

Offline Rooster

Sounds awesome, wish I had tested low now.

Offline Honolulu

Usingmysparemail - what was your count?

I had my blood tested last week, awaiting results.  The GP doesn't think I've got low test, as I look like a manly man.  However, since I have dick issues, he wants to check my count.

I know there are ways to trick the count and pretty much be put onto TRT, but I figured I really want to know the truth.


Offline Plan R

How do you trick the count ?
Its just for a friend of mine who wants to know... :blush:

Offline Honolulu

The blood test is taken in a fasted state. Simply eat a few cheese burgers, fries and a milkshake and spike the shit out of your insulin. Then go get blood tested and say you're fasting.


Offline Rooster

How old do you have to be to get test replacement therapy? Surely there must come a point when the doctor says you're just old and it can't be helped.

Offline usingmyspareemail

Honolulu - I'm sorry, I can't remember my exact count, but it was right at the lower end of the "normal" range (I've seen a variety of figures quoted for the "normal" range though) - and I'm young enough that I don't want to be at the bottom end of the normal range just yet.

I have also heard that test levels can also vary greatly by time of day, amount of sleep, and if someone has had a really hard workout just before their sample is taken. If I was told now that my original test had been inaccurate, and that I really didn't need TRT, I'd still want to take it because of the effects it has had on me.

If there are no dramatic negative side effects, I don't see why we can't fight the aging process forever - I'm not going to go gently into that good night if I can help it.

Offline Plan R

The blood test is taken in a fasted state. Simply eat a few cheese burgers, fries and a milkshake and spike the shit out of your insulin. Then go get blood tested and say you're fasting.

Thanks  :thumbsup:

Offline PhelTGrik

How do you trick the count ?
Its just for a friend of mine who wants to know... :blush:

50-100g carbs about an hour before hand (bag of jellybabies)
2 days without sleep
Heavy resistance training
Enough caffeine to support the above.

Basically anything and everything that'll send insulin and cortisol up.

For the other questions:

There's an 'endocrine society guideline' document floating around online which is what anyone in the NHS should be referring to, low T is flagged for investigation at 300ng/dl and you'll be pretty much on the spot prescribed TRT if you're below 275ng/dl. However if you were this low and overweight for example you'd practically look like a woman...lots of glute-femural fat accumulation...or ass/thigh instead of the hard fat beer belly look men tend to get (fat deposition is influenced by sex hormones, it's why men die at 45 from heat disease but a woman can be 28st up until menopause kicks in, some hormonaly wonkery happens, they start storing fat more like men do and they drop dead in 3 years...assuming you don't feed them warfarin and metformin like tic-tacs).

There is no minimum age for TRT, though if you're doctor is a dick they might be reluctant to give it to older people because 'it's normal to have less' despite the fact in healthy active males the decline from 18-80 is something like 20%...not significant if you're mid to high normal - but if your low normal-mid can be an issue.

Little surprised that docs are prescribing TRT after just the one test but I'd take that as a positive if there are some docs out there that are a bit more open to reasoning that a bi weekly/monthly jab does more than SSRIs for male wellbeing.

Offline Marmalade

How old do you have to be to get test replacement therapy? Surely there must come a point when the doctor says you're just old and it can't be helped.

Unfortunately their standards of 'normal' are indeed age related. At least with an NHS doctor. This means if you are suffering from low T when you get old that is 'normal' for your age. It has to be very low indeed usually to get a script. There are different forms. Not everyone would want to take testosterone enanthanate injections!

« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 01:35:40 am by Marmalade »

mrhappypants

  • Guest
By way of warning; I took an oral steroid at the age of 14 after a longstanding medical issue caused me to stop growing for two years.  The effects were intense.  As well as very rapid weight gain (muscle) I noticed the mood effects described by others above.  What I was not prepared for was the dramatic negative impact on my mood when I came off them.  If you have any history or susceptibility to depression stay away from them.