Punting in a cashless society

[8-VUU]

Looking forward to travelling to the UK after being vaccinated. Always found it difficult to use cash machines to withdraw cash, especially for longer punts and higher priced ladies. Felt odd turning over 12-14 notes. Can non-UK residents transfer money by card without revealing name or account? Can we buy UK cash cards by credit card?

There is no problem with concealing electronic transfers, as I can use multiple bank accounts. Any help is much appreciated.

[bedhedred]

I was getting worried recently as I had booked a session and then loads of cash machines I passed are out of order. Many in my local area have been down since December and they have removed 3 or 4 permanently.

Gone are the days when you can rely on being able to draw out 2 or 300 quid at the drop of a hat. Now I have to top up the wallet little by little.

[RobT22]

When I'm choosing a new member of staff I would check out there social media profile. What they get up to in their so are time, who they hang around with, their views on various subjects. Is that invasion of privacy or just using whatever sources I can to make the right decision.
Bit like our reviews on here before we chose a young lady to spend time with.

[JamesKW]

Bottom line is most normal people welcome the idea of going through the day just "bipping" their debit card, smartphone or smart watch to pay for stuff and quickly getting on with things. However inconvenient it is for certain illicit activities, the march of cashless is pretty unstoppable.
Frankly, blokes really need to wiggle their heads and wonder how the fuck they got so financially intertwined with their spouses - that's the real issue isn't it AND it's the issue you can actually rectify if you put your mind to it. If you plan on punting in the years ahead you need to get ball rolling now in terms of having your own bank account (or money stash)  that's nobody's business but yours.

I agree with your good advice about intertwined accounts I have had separate accounts from day one,more because I dont trust the O/H not to spend it on rubbish.I am not so sure  about the onward march to a cashless society.The level of online scamming is starting to reach such a magnitude,and it must be easy to hack mobile phones and those that use these to pay for items,not to mention someones stash of bitcoins that confidence could be lost in digital cash.

[Ali Katt]

When I'm choosing a new member of staff I would check out there social media profile. What they get up to in their so are time, who they hang around with, their views on various subjects. Is that invasion of privacy or just using whatever sources I can to make the right decision.
Bit like our reviews on here before we chose a young lady to spend time with.

I agree with you. I'm saying the people who post pictures of themselves with bags of weed or being drunk in a night club aren't that bright. I'm also saying it's worrying how much personal information people put out for free and how our right to privacy is pretty much gone on the internet.

[Ali Katt]

I don't know if anyone remembers Greece banned cash purchases over €500 in 2013. Worked out well for the IMF, but nobody else.

[rickyponting]

I have a credit card and have always used it to draw punt money from a cash machine.

I get charged a small fee for that but then pay the card off at the end of the month or whenever,thus covering my tracks.

[Donnie69]

I pay a lot of things by cash. I prefer not to run up my credit card too much. I mostly pay regular prossie in cash, but sometimes they want a bank transfer.

[petermisc]

I have a credit card and have always used it to draw punt money from a cash machine.
I get charged a small fee for that but then pay the card off at the end of the month or whenever,thus covering my tracks.

Can't see how a credit card covers your tracks any more than a debit card.  And a debit card incurs no fee.

[petermisc]

I pay a lot of things by cash. I prefer not to run up my credit card too much. I mostly pay regular prossie in cash, but sometimes they want a bank transfer.

In my experience, they only want bank transfer as a last resort, as it is visible to the taxman.  And as your bank details are visible to the prossie, it would have to be one I could really trust.

[Johnny]

This is a problem, I’ve long since given up carrying cash with me, and in the past couple years rarely have my wallet on me and just rely on smart phone payments. It’s caught me out a few times when I’ve had a sudden opportunity to misbehave, but I’ve honestly never had an issue where my phone or watch have died and I’ve been unable to pay for something. Think I’ll have to reactivate a dormant current account and keep the card for “miscellaneous expenses”

[ragged]

The various locdowns seem to have accelerated the trend towards electronic payments and away from cash.  You can now pay for most things by tapping your phone.  This inevitably means that cash payments will tend to gravitate at the 'dodgy' end of the economy, and making cash payments, and withdrawing large amounts of cash, will itself become suspect.

Combine this with rising punting prices, and it is starting to sometimes be logistically difficult to get hold of the necessary amount of cash.  For instance, once a year I treat myself to a full evening duo with a couple of agency girls, which costs me the best part of 1800 - getting the cash for this requires about two weeks notice and planning, so that I can withdraw the necessary 300 per day from the cash machine.  I then have to squirrel it away somewhere, transport it to the meet (1800 in tenners is fairly bulky) and I'm leaves a fairly obvious papertrail on my bank statements that would stand out to basic scrutiny.

Is the future cashless puniting?  Will we have punting cards as well as punting phones - maybe those disposable Mastercards that you can buy with a certain balance, and reload if you wish?  How many SPs offer card payments - I have only encountered one - and would you be happy with this extra level of electronic trail?

[daviemac]

2 page thread about it from earlier this year here. - https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=307470.msg3222361#msg3222361

[smiths]

I have been reading cash was coming to end for at least 30 years. Yes Covid has meant more people have not used it or not as much as they can. But there is a significant number of people like some elderly and disabled people who require cash. Also some businesses like my barbers only take cash still. It will decline in use more and more over time in my view but its got years before it goes completely.

In my cash I di my bit to keep it going by paying for my food shopping, petrol and punting in cash. And I never have a problem getting hold if it. Even when I was with my ex I had my own accounts, a couple she knew nothing about and weren't down address wise as our shared address.

Cash is king for me in punting and long may that continue. However I did pay an agency by card a long time ago, no problems then but I wouldn't be so stupid as to do that again and have a pimp have my card details same as I wouldn't give them to any WG, even a regular.

[Fuzzyduck]

This has been discussed before a few times but COVID certainly has shifted a few views. Cash will remain king for punting for the near future IMO. Sure you've identified a scenario where cash is inconvenient (for you) but, for the most part, punters prefer anonymity and transact at lower levels than you, and SPs/PIMPs also prefer avoiding traceable exchanges for a variety of reasons. Also, digital solutions that protect the anonymity of both parties tends to attract the attention of the feds.

[pa5151]

Cash will remain king until the other side realise how to use crypto one day.

[Band1t]

Crypto is the answer. I remember advising an sp a few years ago to open a BTC wallet and advertise that she’d accept it for bookings. Unsurprisingly she didn’t take my advice but it’s  the way forward.

[DrGFreeman]

I am using less and less cash
since the pandemic I no longer feel odd buying 4 pints of milk with a debit card

I know some people on a limited budget prefer cash to assist managing expenses,
but someone paying a large bill in cash is now unusual and could be considered suspicious
Its so easy to pay digitally that anyone using cash is doing so specifically to avoid a record of the transaction (prostitution, black economy, drugs, illegal immigrants)
those punters trying to hide a cash withdrawal are going to have a tougher time to find a reason

but this is our problem, Im not sure the ladies care
why would they take a risk with some online system or cypto ?


 

[ragged]

The going agency rate for 1hr for a decemt SP in London is now 250-300.  It's not uncommon to see 'premium' escorts pushing 500/hour.  Whether is is sane is a topic for another thread, but some agency somewhere is going to start taking card payments, which will change not just the relationship between punter and agency, but also between agency and SP.

In fact, scanning the websites of a couple of agencies, they already take bank transfer payments for very high-value bookings, e.g. overnights or travel companion.  So the mechanism is there.

[daviemac]

For those who are convinced cash is going to disappear remember we have only just gone over to polymer bank notes with the £50 being the last and only issued this year. As a conservative estimate polymer bank notes have a life span of 7.5 years.

[puntingpumping1920]

some agency somewhere is going to start taking card payments

 
Some agencies in London take card payments

[Gordon Bennett]

Crypto is the answer. I remember advising an sp a few years ago to open a BTC wallet and advertise that she’d accept it for bookings. Unsurprisingly she didn’t take my advice but it’s  the way forward.

But if crypto becomes the defacto currency of prostitution, drug-peddling, gun-running, modern slavery and whatever other shithousery one can think of, doesn't that kind of suggest crypto will get quickly stamped upon by the authorities (and rightly so)?

I can't see how crypto can perpetually dine out as being some sort of utopian answer to those nasty restrictive state controlled currencies if its main purpose is oiling the wheels of criminal activity and avoiding tax.

[ragged]

Indeed - South Korea busted a bunch of tax dodgers recently and seized millions in crypto:

External Link/Members Only

Cryptocurrencies may have a future, but are not the "untouchable, untracable, untaxable" solution of libertarian wet dreams.

[WelshClipper]

I think cash’s days are numbered, not necessarily for another ten years or so but the burden of all those banknotes clogging up the vaults, one day the chairman of the bank of england is going to say fuck it. I think cash has doom written all over it whether we like it or not.

I dont worry for myself, another five years should me through. But I do wonder for the 40 yo and younger. So far I do not see any discreet alternative.

Maybe anonymous Store cards......   or jelly beans 

[Home Alone]

I think cash’s days are numbered, not necessarily for another ten years or so but the burden of all those banknotes clogging up the vaults, one day the chairman of the bank of england is going to say fuck it. I think cash has doom written all over it whether we like it or not.

I dont worry for myself, another five years should me through. But I do wonder for the 40 yo and younger. So far I do not see any discreet alternative.

Maybe anonymous Store cards......   or jelly beans 

I'm in the same boat as you - no pun intended - WelshClipper; I'll be pleasantly surprised if I'm still punting past my 80th birthday in five years' time.

However, for my remaining years as a punter, I'll still be paying cash. Because I book a four hour session with my Regular once a month for which I pay just over £300, what hacks me off is that most supermarket ATMs usually seem only to dispense a maximum of £250 a day, rather than the usual £300..

I know that's a trivial problem in the great scheme of things, but it's still irksome, having to visit two ATMs.

[GingerNuts]

I'm in the same boat as you - no pun intended - WelshClipper; I'll be pleasantly surprised if I'm still punting past my 80th birthday in five years' time.

However, for my remaining years as a punter, I'll still be paying cash. Because I book a four hour session with my Regular once a month for which I pay just over £300, what hacks me off is that most supermarket ATMs usually seem only to dispense a maximum of £250 a day, rather than the usual £300..

I know that's a trivial problem in the great scheme of things, but it's still irksome, having to visit two ATMs.

The daily cash limit from ATMs is set by your bank, ask them for an increase in your limit.

[timsussex]

Apart from a pot of coins in the car to pay for parking  haven't used any cash in the last 2 weeks

in the week before that £140 on a punt and used a fiver to buy a choc bar to get some coins for said parking

I would happily pay for a punt wth a card - though I accept that I'm in a minority

[Home Alone]

The daily cash limit from ATMs is set by your bank, ask them for an increase in your limit.

I didn't know that, GingerNuts; thanks for the info. Guess it should have been obvious; it's been £300 a day for ages, hasn't it?

[WelshClipper]

I didn't know that, GingerNuts; thanks for the info. Guess it should have been obvious; it's been £300 a day for ages, hasn't it?

Without getting all techy on you, I can change my cash limit withdrawal on my banking phone app.

I changed mine to 200 cos its the only cash I see and 99% of my punts are 120 to 200 for however long that buys me.

[Home Alone]

Thanks for that, WelshClipper; but I  guess you wouldn't be surprised to read that I'm one who hasn't yet switched - likely never will! - to internet banking.

Actually, the point I was trying to make - not very well, obvs! - in my previous post was that although the amount my bank lets me withdraw from my account at an ATM is a maximum of £300, my experience of some banks' cash machines in large stores - certainly the M & S by the bus stop where I get off in the nearest larger town to my comparatively small home town and, I think, Tesco - is that their company policy is to limit withdrawals to £250 from their ATMs.

[tynetunnel]

I wasn’t surprised HA!  I can change my daily withdrawal limit in my banking app too, I’d give the bank a call and ask them to raise yours. Or get the app for your bank and transfer the fee direct to your regular, then no cash required..
 

[GingerNuts]

I didn't know that, GingerNuts; thanks for the info. Guess it should have been obvious; it's been £300 a day for ages, hasn't it?

I don't know. I had my daily limit increased a while ago and it was £250 at the time. It doesn't help though if there is a limit set by specific cash machines or companies operating them. I've yet to encounter such a limit but it's not often I've wanted to withdraw more than £250 and when I do it's usually at the local Asda.

If I remember correctly I think I was was warned I wouldn't be covered over the standard £250 limit if my card was used fraudulently. Something like that anyway.

[WelshClipper]

Thanks for that, WelshClipper; but I  guess you wouldn't be surprised to read that I'm one who hasn't yet switched - likely never will! - to internet banking.

Actually, the point I was trying to make - not very well, obvs! - in my previous post was that although the amount my bank lets me withdraw from my account at an ATM is a maximum of £300, my experience of some banks' cash machines in large stores - certainly the M & S by the bus stop where I get off in the nearest larger town to my comparatively small home town and, I think, Tesco - is that their company policy is to limit withdrawals to £250 from their ATMs.

I think you are probably right. Limits are set by your own bank and by the bank operating the ATM. All very arbitrary but what can you do. I am pretty sure my bank has an upper limit on me but I have the discretion to “bounce around” under that limit as much as I like.

 

[blend57]

The various locdowns seem to have accelerated the trend towards electronic payments and away from cash.  You can now pay for most things by tapping your phone.  This inevitably means that cash payments will tend to gravitate at the 'dodgy' end of the economy, and making cash payments, and withdrawing large amounts of cash, will itself become suspect.

Combine this with rising punting prices, and it is starting to sometimes be logistically difficult to get hold of the necessary amount of cash.  For instance, once a year I treat myself to a full evening duo with a couple of agency girls, which costs me the best part of 1800 - getting the cash for this requires about two weeks notice and planning, so that I can withdraw the necessary 300 per day from the cash machine.  I then have to squirrel it away somewhere, transport it to the meet (1800 in tenners is fairly bulky) and I'm leaves a fairly obvious papertrail on my bank statements that would stand out to basic scrutiny.

Is the future cashless puniting?  Will we have punting cards as well as punting phones - maybe those disposable Mastercards that you can buy with a certain balance, and reload if you wish?  How many SPs offer card payments - I have only encountered one - and would you be happy with this extra level of electronic trail?

Try using a money belt.

[thumbspot]

There are a number of anonymous pre pay cards available online. Linked to offshore accounts to distance your personal information from the account when used.

Can’t vouch for any of them, nor if they’d be safe or accountable with your cash. Might be ok for a quick turnaround transaction.

Definitely the future, and I’d welcome it vs walking into a meet with a pocket full of notes

[Home Alone]

I wasn’t surprised HA!  I can change my daily withdrawal limit in my banking app too, I’d give the bank a call and ask them to raise yours. Or get the app for your bank and transfer the fee direct to your regular, then no cash required..
 

Although you're one of the 'mates-I've-never-met' on here, tt; you know me so well!

[WelshClipper]

Hmmmmm....

Trusting soul that I am, I would be very reluctant to trust even a regular with any of my details. Circumstances do change.

[smiths]

For those who are convinced cash is going to disappear remember we have only just gone over to polymer bank notes with the £50 being the last and only issued this year. As a conservative estimate polymer bank notes have a life span of 7.5 years.

Yes this is a great point, changing to the polymer notes and getting the old ones out of circulation costs a lot so in my view that's more reason for me to think cash has years to go at least.

[daviemac]

Yes this is a great point, changing to the polymer notes and getting the old ones out of circulation costs a lot so in my view that's more reason for me to think cash has years to go at least.

Also as long as kids want to buy a '20p mixup' we'll need cash.

[smiths]

I think you are probably right. Limits are set by your own bank and by the bank operating the ATM. All very arbitrary but what can you do. I am pretty sure my bank has an upper limit on me but I have the discretion to “bounce around” under that limit as much as I like.

 

Indeed, its been £500 a day at an ATM and another £500 over the counter in a branch with a few of my banks for years now. Plus as I posted above if I went to an ATM at just before midnight and took out £500 all I need to do is wait to just after midnight and I can take another £500 out. So in theory I could take £1500 out in 1 day per different bank account. At present no lack of ATMs in my area but I do live in a busy area of London. My banks wont increase beyond the £500 though as I have asked.

[smiths]

Also as long as kids want to buy a '20p mixup' we'll need cash.

Yes plus those I mentioned above who need access to cash for whatever reason it is. I know some elderly and disabled charities lobby the government about this saying access to cash is essential to some of the people they support. The big thing of course at present is access to ATMs and if its still going ahead the government are or were going to bring in some regulation about people having access to cash within a reasonable distance but that depends on what a reasonable distance turns out to be. Not sure how this would actually work in practice though.

[WelshClipper]

Also as long as kids want to buy a '20p mixup' we'll need cash.

I wont argue with this. Small transactions are the Achilles heal of the cashless society.

I have already bought an item under £1 with my phone. I dont think it will be the banks or customers who will ultimately decide. As more and more use cashless and the wads of plastic notes stack up in the bank vaults, it will be the government who will legislate the endgame and stragglers be damned.

[smiths]

I wont argue with this. Small transactions are the Achilles heal of the cashless society.

I have already bought an item under £1 with my phone. I dont think it will be the banks or customers who will ultimately decide. As more and more use cashless and the wads of plastic notes stack up in the bank vaults, it will be the government who will legislate the endgame and stragglers be damned.

Charities and others who help and support vulnerable people have a lot of clout nowadays especially with social media sites, and embarrassing the government of the day is never a good look for any government. Not the government obviously but the BBC climbed down regarding getting rid of the teletext type service they were aiming to get rid of to save money. Charities and others complained including me and they are continuing with it, just getting rid of certain aspects.

This potential scenario will be in the minds of any government wanting to bring in legislation to abolish cash, I am not saying it wont happen one day but not in the next few years at least in my view. My son who is in his 20s virtually never uses cash, I do though and want to continue doing so as suits me for as long as possible.

[daviemac]

I wont argue with this. Small transactions are the Achilles heal of the cashless society.

I have already bought an item under £1 with my phone. I dont think it will be the banks or customers who will ultimately decide. As more and more use cashless and the wads of plastic notes stack up in the bank vaults, it will be the government who will legislate the endgame and stragglers be damned.

It isn't just that it would be cheaper for shops to give sweets away to kids than to pay 27p or so for something they are selling for 20p, I see it as a vital part of a child's education. Calling into the corner shop teaches them social skills as well as the value of money, if they have 20p in their pocket then they have to choose something for 20p, if they are going to pay by card there's no connection between what they buy and how much they have.

[WelshClipper]

Charities and others who help and support vulnerable people have a lot of clout nowadays especially with social media sites, and embarrassing the government of the day is never a good look for any government. Not the government obviously but the BBC climbed down regarding getting rid of the teletext type service they were aiming to get rid of to save money. Charities and others complained including me and they are continuing with it, just getting rid of certain aspects.

This potential scenario will be in the minds of any government wanting to bring in legislation to abolish cash, I am not saying it wont happen one day but not in the next few years at least in my view. My son who is in his 20s virtually never uses cash, I do though and want to continue doing so as suits me for as long as possible.

I agree that maybe the timeframe is longer than I imagine. Like you my kids hardly know what cash is.

I just think the writing is on the wall despite what anyone has said, but its just a personal view though.

[smiths]

It isn't just that it would be cheaper for shops to give sweets away to kids than to pay 27p or so for something they are selling for 20p, I see it as a vital part of a child's education. Calling into the corner shop teaches them social skills as well as the value of money, if they have 20p in their pocket then they have to choose something for 20p, if they are going to pay by card there's no connection between what they buy and how much they have.

I totally agree, there are lots of things that have been all but lost with the internet and all that that has brought. Me and my mates used to love spending Saturdays in record and video shops for example, it wasn't just to buy them it was also a social event and we had a great laugh. My son apart for me has never bought a cd/vinyl/dvd for himself.

[WelshClipper]

It isn't just that it would be cheaper for shops to give sweets away to kids than to pay 27p or so for something they are selling for 20p, I see it as a vital part of a child's education. Calling into the corner shop teaches them social skills as well as the value of money, if they have 20p in their pocket then they have to choose something for 20p, if they are going to pay by card there's no connection between what they buy and how much they have.

I don’t doubt for a second the benefits of children understanding what money is, I totally get what you are saying.

When I was 16 or 17, times tables had just been replaced by slide rules, three or four years later it was electronic calculators. From what I understand, the skill of long division and long multiplication has gone out the window even though I still find it a useful exercise.

This may be a poor example but I’m just saying things dont always change for the common good, more the common denominator.

I sincerely hope you are correct, but I just have my doubts.

[smiths]

I agree that maybe the timeframe is longer than I imagine. Like you my kids hardly know what cash is.

I just think the writing is on the wall despite what anyone has said, but its just a personal view though.

The writing is on the wall in the long term, but no idea how long term that will be. As a guess I would say cash will be in use for the next 10 years at least and probably 20. And as I said above there will be big objections from some if any government says they are abolishing it.

[daviemac]

I totally agree, there are lots of things that have been all but lost with the internet and all that that has brought. Me and my mates used to love spending Saturdays in record and video shops for example, it wasn't just to buy them it was also a social event and we had a great laugh. My son apart for me has never bought a cd/vinyl/dvd for himself.

I might be showing my age now but we used to go to a record shop in Newcastle and they had a line of booths opposite the counter and you asked to hear a record they told you the booth number then went in to listen to it, You couldn't get moved on a Saturday.

[WelshClipper]

I might be showing my age now but we used to go to a record shop in Newcastle and they had a line of booths opposite the counter and you asked to hear a record they told you the booth number then went in to listen to it, You couldn't get moved on a Saturday.

I remember seeing these booths but I am not sure if 1) its when my older sister went in to buy the latest motown single or 2) I saw them on Midlands Today with Tom Coyne.

Either way, I think I missed the “booth” era by a hare’s whisker