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Author Topic: Madam Cyn dies  (Read 3406 times)

Offline Horizontal pleasures

Former brothel madam Cynthia Payne dies, aged 82
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Is there anyone else who has happy memories of `Ambleside Avenue?

vw

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HP were you one of the "elderly men paying with luncheon vouchers" at her sex party ?   :D :D :D

Offline Horizontal pleasures

HP were you one of the "elderly men paying with luncheon vouchers" at her sex party ?   :D :D :D

I was still young! probably in my late 30s and early 40s.

Offline Plato

A fine lady...wish I was old enough to have gone to her parties. 

Offline CoolTiger

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I bet there are quite a few high profile names who will sleep well tonight!!

vw

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I bet there are quite a few high profile names who will sleep well tonight!!
Never know she may leave gifts in her will to these high profile names.  :scare:

5th Musketeer

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A fine lady...wish I was old enough to have gone to her parties.

I wasn't then - but I am now  :cool:


Offline Piercedexile

I always liked the look of her ,  the older matron type , would of loved to RIP .

Offline Taggart

In the film Personal Services, when Cyn was arrested, the detective said 'you're going down', to which she (Julie Walters) quipped: "I only go down for a price, dear, and I doubt if you could afford it."

A colourful figure indeed.

unclesweetheart

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Most cherishable for her statement of the very simple truth, that men need to be regularly despunked. Not sure if she'll make it to the Oxford Book of Quotations, but a timeless truth nevertheless.

Offline Horizontal pleasures

hey am I really the only one on here who was at her parties? I went to loads of them.

I met her alone for punting also I think in Hallam Street W1 a few times.

Offline Steve2

I never met her HP but several guys who came to my parties over the years had been.

I did meet one of her "friends" who owned the bungalow in Radlett behind the , now gone, Little Chef.

 She was an amazing character. She had loads of photos of them both when they were younger with expensive sports cars and always some great stories of the "good old days" while you were waiting for the girl to get ready

willbred

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I missed news of Cynthia's passing, not surprising given the main news focus at present. I was only watching the Personal Services video last night. RIP another of life's characters.

yumyum3

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Quote
hey am I really the only one on here who was at her parties? I went to loads of them.

I met her alone for punting also I think in Hallam Street W1 a few times.
RIP Cynthia :cry: HP, you may remember we exchanged PMs quite a while back. I was slightly too young to attend the parties but did meet and have drinks with Cynthia when she ran her political campaign with Screaming Lord Sutch; great parties, drinks etc. Read her book too.

Pussydoc

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I never met her HP but several guys who came to my parties over the years had been.

I did meet one of her "friends" who owned the bungalow in Radlett behind the , now gone, Little Chef.

 She was an amazing character. She had loads of photos of them both when they were younger with expensive sports cars and always some great stories of the "good old days" while you were waiting for the girl to get ready
.   That reminds me the bungalow had a great big heart shaped bath, the punt I remember was ok but not like today's indies , never anything like  GFE.

Offline davidgood

I never met her HP but several guys who came to my parties over the years had been.

I did meet one of her "friends" who owned the bungalow in Radlett behind the , now gone, Little Chef.

 She was an amazing character. She had loads of photos of them both when they were younger with expensive sports cars and always some great stories of the "good old days" while you were waiting for the girl to get ready

Blimey Steve, the bungalow of ill repute next to the Little Chef is going back a few years, never went my self as well before my punting time but heard about it from people who lived down the road in Park Street.

Makes me wonder are you as old as HP?

If HP went to Cynthia's parties then I think he should be given the status of Punting Legend.

RIP Cynthia.

Regards,

davidgood


Offline Horizontal pleasures

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Here is her full obituary.

Cynthia Payne obituary
Streatham brothel-keeper whose ‘personal services’ inspired a film and books, and launched her on a celebrity career



Some stories in no particular order from my memories.

We had tea, (my memory is that there was no alcohol but there was some food including fried eggs). There was an old guy who was Cyn's slave who fried the eggs and washed up. We loafed in the lounge and we pulled a partner and went upstairs but .... the stair became a queue and once I could not wait and nicked some cushions and did it in the bath!

There was on guy who was an exhibitionist and found his match, they had their way with each other on the floor of the lounge to gentle cheers and jeers from the throng.

I quite often went with 2 ladies.

There were what Cyn called 'bunk-up nights' the evening before the main party when some of the ladies would arrive from out of London to 'bunk-up' until the main party started. Favoured gents were invited for a modest gift to turn up in the evening. I recall being in a huge bed with a huge young lady BBW from Wales and her friend who was slim and petite. The two ladies were into each other like ying and yang while I podged one of them from behind or became the jam in their sandwich. At some crucial point in the proceedings a copper walked in. Fully clothed in uniform. We were all consternated. I pulled on some clothes. I was not asked any questions and left fast. I tried to be sure that the delightful ladies and Cyn were not arrested but I was ushered out. I now have no memory whether the next afternoon party took place or not.

Yes there were many occupations and all social classes present both ladies and gents. Some ladies were professionals, some were amateurs along for the fun as well as the pocket money. It was always a jovial atmosphere.

HP


« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 07:07:42 pm by Horizontal pleasures »

Offline Horizontal pleasures

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Cynthia Payne, who has died aged 82, was the quintessentially English madam whose career as an eccentric suburban brothel-keeper led to a film, books and a career as a “naughty but nice” celebrity. Unrepentant to the end, in her later years she expressed the hope that her life story might be turned into a musical.

It was 1978 when police raided her home in Streatham, south London, which she ran to provide “personal services” for her mainly elderly clients. By the time she was convicted of running a disorderly house at her trial in 1980, she had become a household name and, although she had to close her establishment, she was able to use her cheery notoriety to make a living as an after-dinner speaker and commentator on sexual matters.

Born in Bognor Regis, West Sussex, to a strict father, Hamilton, who worked as a hairdresser on Union Castle liners, and a mother, Betty, who died of cancer when Cynthia was 10, she was a precocious child who “talked dirty” and was expelled from her convent school. This wild and rebellious early life on the south coast would later become the basis of the 1987 film Wish You Were Here, directed by David Leland and starring Emily Lloyd.

After training unenthusiastically as a hairdresser, Payne worked as a waitress and shop assistant before moving as a teenager to London for a job in the department store Swan & Edgar. She became pregnant by a much older man, and gave birth to a son who was eventually fostered but whose boarding school education she financed and whose wedding she later attended. Another son was given up for adoption at a few weeks old, and three abortions, one very traumatic and painful, followed.

 Cynthia Payne’s case attracted attention for her method of payment, using luncheon vouchers as tokens for services rendered.

She slipped into prostitution to avoid eviction from her flat because she was behind with the rent. “I realised I could do it and make money at the same time,” she told her biographer, Paul Bailey, in An English Madam (1982). “It made me bloody determined. I was never going to go crawling for money again.” Initially, she ran “kinky parties for kinky people”, advertising in contact magazines, but her brothel, far from the fleshpots of Soho, attracted a word-of-mouth clientele of older men who liked to have their fantasies indulged, whether this involved straight sex, bondage, whipping or role-playing.

The reason that her case attracted so much attention was twofold: her clients and the method of payment. The former were said to have included a peer of the realm, vicars, barristers, ex-police officers, politicians and bank managers, not to mention a cross-dressing former RAF squadron leader. Towards the end of his life, her father also became a client. She charged punters £25, which was exchanged for a “luncheon voucher” – a token that entitled the bearer to have sex with any of the women in the house who agreed and who could then use it as proof of services rendered; pensioners received a £3 discount.

An anonymous tip-off alerted police to strange goings on in Ambleside Avenue and, over a 12-day period, 249 men and 50 women were observed by undercover officers entering her house. The luncheon vouchers, presented as evidence, became an enduring part of the story.

Convicted of running a disorderly house, Payne was sentenced to 18 months and fined £1,950 with £2,000 costs. Her barrister, Geoffrey Robertson, asked for a non-custodial sentence, assuring the court that no “beardless youngsters (were) initiated into the fleshpots”.

 Wish You Were Here, the 1987 film starring Emily Lloyd, was based on Cynthia Payne’s early life.
  Photo

She appealed unsuccessfully, although the sentence was reduced to six months. The appeal court heard that she had several high-profile clients but the presiding judge, Lord Justice Lawton, said there was “not a shred of evidence” that any of them was actually there on the night she was arrested, although he acknowledged that it had led to “some very amusing cartoons”. Payne’s solicitor, David Offenbach, suggested that the judge was “more concerned about the apparent respectability of customers rather than the plight of an unwell, middle-aged woman sent to prison ... This confirms the hypocrisy of the law by punishing the woman but letting her customers go free.”

Payne emerged from Holloway prison to be met by a former client in a Rolls-Royce and obligingly gave the waiting photographers a V-sign and a quote: “V for victory, V for voucher.” Throughout the case, the press treated “Madam Cyn” gently, portraying her as part of a bawdy tradition that stretched from Chaucer to the Carry On series.

The 1987 film Personal Services, directed by Terry Jones and starring Julie Walters as “Christine Painter”, concentrated on the larky nature of her career. Walters recalled meeting Payne and being immediately asked: “Do you like sex, Julie?” During what Payne claimed was a party to celebrate the making of the film, the police raided again and she faced a further trial. This time she was acquitted. In the same year, her book, Entertaining at Home, with “101 party hints”, appeared. It included chapters entitled Remaining on Good Terms with Your Local Constabulary and Raid Etiquette for Policemen, with advice for undercover officers.

Campaigning for the legalisation of prostitution, she stood as a candidate for the Rainbow Alliance Payne and Pleasure party in the Kensington parliamentary byelection in 1988 and won 193 votes, and again, in Streatham, in the 1992 general election, taking 145 votes.

Her one-woman show at the Edinburgh festival in 1992 was a sellout and she made herself available for after-dinner speaking at which she promised “tasteful stories ... no crudity of any nature”.

Towards the end of her life, she approached both Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice with the suggestion of a musical. In fact, Lloyd Webber chose a different tale of English sexual hypocrisy, that of the Profumo scandal, for his 2013 musical, Stephen Ward.

She is survived by her sons.

• Cynthia Payne, madam, born 24 December 1932; died 15 November 2015

(look at the original page for some nice photos, the first photo is how I remember her.)

Falstaff

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hey am I really the only one on here who was at her parties? I went to loads of them.

I met her alone for punting also I think in Hallam Street W1 a few times.

HP you actually punted CP?

You sir, are now officially a legend!!

Offline Horizontal pleasures

HP you actually punted CP?

You sir, are now officially a legend!!

yes
Her trading name then was not Payne but Mansell, I forget the forename, maybe Judith Mansell, and so it was on the advert and doorbell. And I am sure it was Hallam Street as I recall a local landmark. Please do not ask for a review, I remember what she looked like but nothing more.

Offline Horizontal pleasures

When Cynthia Payne gave me a luncheon voucher
by Tim Dowling

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There is a lovely photo of her and some online comments after the article
HP

Almost 20 years ago I interviewed Cynthia Payne, who died this week aged 82. I was, I think, one of the last people to see her house in Ambleside Avenue, Streatham, at it was in its sex-party heyday, in all its dowdy suburban glory. Payne was embarking on a major refurbishment and was on the phone coordinating deliveries when she let me in.

“Tell him if there’s no reply to leave it on the doorstep,” she said. “Nobody’s gonna run off with a lavatory pan, are they?”

At the time I’d been a full-time freelance journalist – oxymoronic as that sounds – for only a couple of years, and I’d been resident in Britain for less than five. As an American I had particular trouble understanding what a luncheon voucher was, or how one could be used to launder brothel-keeping proceeds. What did she do with them when she got them, I asked people. Did she funnel her profits though a fake cafe? And where did her clients get the vouchers?

You don’t understand, everyone said, but nobody else could remember how the system worked either. In the end I had to ask Madame Cyn herself. “I hate this question,” she said, swigging cough syrup from the bottle, “because it’s such a long answer.” I wanted the long answer, and she gave it. Originally, she said, in exchange for an entry fee, she gave her clients little plastic badges from Rymans. The men gave them to the girls upstairs and the girls later redeemed them, as proof of services performed, in exchange for payment.

It was a simple accounting system but it was badly compromised when some of the girls started buying their own badges at Rymans. In the search for a form of currency that could not be so readily counterfeited, Payne came upon a box of old, out-of-date luncheon vouchers. When the police raided her 1978 Christmas party, every man had a luncheon voucher in his pocket, which helped give the scandal its indelible comic tint. “A lot of people forget I went to prison for it,” she told me. “I always remind them.”

The queen of tears
By the time I met her Cynthia Payne had joined the after-dinner speaking circuit, and in that capacity she was also the freelance journalist’s best friend. Beyond being charming, patient and exceedingly helpful, she also provided me with a comprehensive cuttings file, videos of the two films based on her life – Wish You Were Here and Personal Services – plus a documentary called House of Cyn and a tape of her addressing lady members of the Wentworth golf club.

The last was, as I recall, particularly surreal and a weird thing to give to a journalist: the previous speaker at the charity lunch talks frankly and movingly (included on the tape in full) about several members of her family dying of Aids, reducing most of the audience to tears. The woman who subsequently introduces Payne as “the queen of the luncheon vouchers” does so in a voice choked with emotion. Unaware of what has gone on before, Madame Cyn then strolls into the room, shouting “I’m on a recruitment drive, girls!” at women who are still dabbing their eyes. She won them round in the end. Perhaps that’s what she wanted me to see.

Losing the best girl
When I heard she’d died I looked for the business card Payne had given me all those years ago (the one she handed to everyone she met in those days): a laminated mock-up of a luncheon voucher. On the back she had written: “To Tim, thank you for past custom!!”

She wrote the same to everyone – unless you were a woman, in which case she would write: “Sorry to lose one of my best girls!”

DoberManic

  • Guest

You sir, are now officially a legend!!

Hear, hear!

I think HP should now be granted honorary life member status of UKP  :)

I salute you sir!  :hi:

Offline joe diddley

RIP Cynthia :cry: HP, you may remember we exchanged PMs quite a while back. I was slightly too young to attend the parties but did meet and have drinks with Cynthia when she ran her political campaign with Screaming Lord Sutch; great parties, drinks etc. Read her book too.

I went to a Sutch gig at the Bramley Tavern (I think that was the name) near Latimer Road tube station for an election rally (really a Sutch gig) that she was attending. As the two outsiders (both were standing in the local by-election) they had pooled their resources (his horror-laden rock and roll, and her reputation) for the duration of the campaign. She was a bit of a celeb and signed a few autographs for members of the audience. Remember his campaign badge "Don't blame me. I voted Screaming Loony".

yumyum3

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Quote
I went to a Sutch gig at the Bramley Tavern (I think that was the name) near Latimer Road tube station for an election rally (really a Sutch gig) that she was attending. As the two outsiders (both were standing in the local by-election) they had pooled their resources (his horror-laden rock and roll, and her reputation) for the duration of the campaign. She was a bit of a celeb and signed a few autographs for members of the audience. Remember his campaign badge "Don't blame me. I voted Screaming Loony".
:lol: We may well have met, Joe. Can't remember the pub name but do remember Latimer Road. Cynthia did try to speak seriously at one point on the ridiculous nature of UK's laws on sex, prostitution etc. but there were too many half drunk buffoons heckling her, I seem to remember. It irritated me because I was listening to her intently as she spoke much sense on the subject.  :drinks:
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 10:46:53 am by yumyum3 »

Offline joe diddley

Could be, yumyum. I don't remember a whole lot about the event but heckling buffoon isn't my style and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been one of those. I seem to recall that she seemed a bit melancholy as one of my acquaintances at the gig asked her for an autograph.

yumyum3

  • Guest
Heckling buffoon probably gives the wrong impression actually, Joe. Thinking about it, it was more a few people shouting lewd remarks thinking Cynthia was just taking the piss, when actually she was trying to make astute, interesting and serious points. Perhaps this explains the melancholy. I complimented her on the important points she was trying to make and said I was disappointed with those few thinking it was a big joke. Anyway, your memory of melancholy really jogged my memory.  :drinks:

Offline joe diddley

Can't remember what year that was, yumyum. Must have been mid 80s, I guess. In those days I lived on the Notting Hill Frontine (corner of All Saints Road and Lancaster Road) where the dealers sold suckers bags of Sainsburys mixed herbs and bits of the local plastic black refuse bins cut to look like pieces of hash to Trustafarians who would come up to the area. I was a bit of old Ted and went to the Sutch gig as much to see old mates as Cynthia Payne or make a political statement. Notting Hill, Ladbroke Grove and Portobello were buzzing in those days. Only a few years previously the squats around Freston Road, only a few yards from the Bramley Tavern declared UDI as a means of avoiding eviction, calling their new 'republic', in the spirit of Passport to Pimlico, The People's Republic of Frestonia.

Offline Horizontal pleasures

Funeral
Mourners pay tribute at funeral for notorious former brothel madam Cynthia Payne

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External Link/Members Only

'She made lots of people very happy': With wreathes that read 'SEX' and pallbearers dressed as policemen, brothel madam Cynthia Payne is laid to rest in suitably outrageous fashion
Dozens of mourners dressed in brightly-coloured clothing to bid farewell to the 82-year-old, who died last month
A jazz band, pallbearers in police uniform and actors in maids' outfits lined the route of the hearse in south London
Payne, nicknamed Madame Cyn, hit headlines in 1978 when police raided a sex party at her home in Streatham
Her life was immortalised in two films - Wish You Were Here and Personal Services, starring Julie Walters


Offline Horizontal pleasures

I am very nostalgic for the parties.

I am re-opening this thread in case there is anyone on here who also went to her parties and remembers Cynthia or some of the ladies who were there?

thanks
HP

Offline AnthG

I am re-opening this thread in case there is anyone on here who also went to her parties and remembers Cynthia or some of the ladies who were there?

I might be being a bit over sensitive, but it seems a bit bad taste bumping this particular topic back up after 4 years like this.
Banned reason: To much drama, account closed
Banned by: Iloveoral

Offline cotton

I might be being a bit over sensitive, but it seems a bit bad taste bumping this particular topic back up after 4 years like this.
Possibly a bit self indulgent but i dont see whats bad taste about it , can you explain , has there been something in the news or am i missing some vital bit of info.

Offline AnthG

Possibly a bit self indulgent but i dont see whats bad taste about it , can you explain , has there been something in the news or am i missing some vital bit of info.

Its a topic reporting someone has just died.
Banned reason: To much drama, account closed
Banned by: Iloveoral

Offline cotton

Its a topic reporting someone has just died.
Its a topic inviting remembrances of someone punting related who has died. Bit self indulgent to revive it after 4 years but i personally dont think theres anything in bad taste about it .

Offline Horizontal pleasures

She made many people very happy, says the last message. How can that be in bad taste?

I had a simple question: does anyone else on here share my happy memories? I had more delicious duos with uninhibited young ladies at these events, than any time since.

Thanks to mods for letting me re-open the thread.

HP
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 01:07:29 pm by Horizontal pleasures »

Online Jonestown

I had more delicious duos with uninhibited young ladies at these events, than any time since.

Who played you in the film ?

Offline airrift2010

Who played you in the film ?

Made me lol.

I’m pleased this was bumped, I’d not seen the thread before and it’s a great read.

Offline Colston36

I am very nostalgic for the parties.

I am re-opening this thread in case there is anyone on here who also went to her parties and remembers Cynthia or some of the ladies who were there?

thanks
HP

I found all this rather touching and am glad you reopened the thread. God, how times have changed! I thought Miss Payne quite admirable. Perhaps as one gets older one gets increasingly sentimental. The words Hallam Street caught my eye: I recall fucking a Polish stripper I lived with in 1967 whilst going up and down in the lift in Hallam Street off Great Portland Street. I do like "ladies of ill-repute", and as I near my dotage they have become pretty much my only hobby. Beats stamp collecting.