The Politics Thread

[akauya]

Surely any country should aim for basic food security for its own population?

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[Blackpool Rock]

Yes amazing isn't it 

I never got the argument that was put forward by some farmers (who as a whole voted for Brexit) that without subsidies they would be able to produce things cheaper, it's clearly just 

Of course as soon as the result was known the 1st point they made was that the previous EU subsidies would now need to be paid by the UK Govt, I believe they are still moaning about needing more but was there ever a time that farmers were actually happy 

[badsin]

So why are so many farmers protesting in Europe?
France, Germany, Spain, Portugal..... Last week around 70,000 demonstrated in Poland
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[petermisc]

Yes amazing isn't it 

I never got the argument that was put forward by some farmers (who as a whole voted for Brexit) that without subsidies they would be able to produce things cheaper, it's clearly just 

Of course as soon as the result was known the 1st point they made was that the previous EU subsidies would now need to be paid by the UK Govt, I believe they are still moaning about needing more but was there ever a time that farmers were actually happy 

The farmers and fishermen were fed the line that we would stop importing from Europe, so our farmers and fishermen would be able to charge more.  Meanwhile the public were being fed the line that we would be able to import from wherever we wanted, so would be able to get food cheaper.  Those who pointed out the obvious inconsistency between the two lines were derided as remoaners without the vision to see that Brexit was magically going to make us all better off.

[petermisc]

So why are so many farmers protesting in Europe?
France, Germany, Spain, Portugal..... Last week around 70,000 demonstrated in Poland
External Link/Members Only

Because the EU is changing the way it distributes the grants.  With any change, there are always winners and losers, and the losers will be unhappy.  There will also be those resistant to change, who will only see how they will lose out if they carry on the way they are now, rather than seeing an opportunity to make more if they adapt to the change.

[PepeMAGA]

Are we 

Surely getting out of the EU was going to make everything easier as we wouldn't be hamstrung by Brussels 

It depends how uk governments choose to behave post exit. For example in Wales then can still claim subsidies but the new proposal will require them to lose 20% of their land to trees and wildlife conservation. They could use the subsidies more constructively like enforcement of biosecurity, which would benefit farmers, customers and taxpayers.

[akauya]

The farmers and fishermen were fed the line that we would stop importing from Europe, so our farmers and fishermen would be able to charge more.  Meanwhile the public were being fed the line that we would be able to import from wherever we wanted, so would be able to get food cheaper.  Those who pointed out the obvious inconsistency between the two lines were derided as remoaners without the vision to see that Brexit was magically going to make us all better off.

This is it.

Being part of the EU was not perfect (nothing ever is) but it was a hell of a lot better than what we have today.

What pisses me off more that inflicting economic sanctions on ourselves is the fact that brexiters have fucked up the prospects of young Brits being able to have the freedom to live, work, whatever in any country in the EU. I volunteer in community initiatives and I meet a lot of young people. This is something they resent a lot about  older people who voted for brexit.

One funny (if one could call it funny) is the story of a friend of mine's father (in his 90s) a staunch brexiter would not listen to any reasonable argument against. Even saying about young brits will have to accept what the older population decides (as the teens weren't allowed to vote). The old fucker died soon after brexit. Thanks mate.

[mh]

Surely getting out of the EU was going to make everything easier as we wouldn't be hamstrung by Brussels 

One of the big benefits of Brexit that Rees-Smug and others kept telling us about was cheaper food prices for households. That's either by importing food from places that have lower food production standards or by lowering our own food production standards. The former fucks over UK farmers because it drives prices down and leaves households with poorer quality food. The latter fucks over UK farmers as they can no longer export to the EU, also receive a lower price for their production and leaves households with poorer quality food.

[JontyR]

For example, I understand that we are reliant on American wheat for white bread, as the type of wheat grown in the UK is not particularly good for it. 

Never mind about the type, we only produce enough grain to keep us in biscuits. There is no chance that we can produce enough to keep us in bread (or cake)

[nwluvit]

 I volunteer in community initiatives and I meet a lot of young people. This is something they resent a lot about  older people who voted for brexit.  Quoting from Akauya's post.

I work in one of those serviced office places. The majority of young ones here voted to leave.
On the day of reckoning one asked me "did I do the right thing?"  FFS!!!!!

[WASA38]

Yes everyone seems to think importing food is a fairly recent thing however I remember seeing a history program and being amazed at the % of food being imported prior to WW1

 All started with the repeal of the corn laws by Sir Robert Peel in 1846

[nwluvit]

All started with the repeal of the corn laws by Sir Robert Peel in 1846

Wasn't the potato one of the first imports of food. Walter Raleigh was supposed to have introduced it to the Queen (Elizabeth 1st) after a trip to the South Americas.

[timsussex]

Wasn't the potato one of the first imports of food. Walter Raleigh was supposed to have introduced it to the Queen (Elizabeth 1st) after a trip to the South Americas.

Hardly "one of the first" the Romans brought over 50 kinds of food and I suspect a few more arrived after 1066

But a more interesting question is what did the Italians eat before 1500 when the Tomato was brought back ? or before Marco Polo is reputed to have brought pasta (noodles) back from China

[chrishornx]

Wasn't the potato one of the first imports of food. Walter Raleigh was supposed to have introduced it to the Queen (Elizabeth 1st) after a trip to the South Americas.

hardly as old as the grapes grown by the Romans

[PepeMAGA]

Interesting, seems citroen can't control China exporting their own car "kits" to Russia
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[WARSZAWA16]

hardly as old as the grapes grown by the Romans

Ah, "what have the Romans ever done for us?"..

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[mills_and_bhuna]

Interesting, seems citroen can't control China exporting their own car "kits" to Russia
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Another case of sanctions backfiring

[jackdaw]

I volunteer in community initiatives and I meet a lot of young people. This is something they resent a lot about  older people who voted for brexit.  Quoting from Akauya's post.

I work in one of those serviced office places. The majority of young ones here voted to leave.
On the day of reckoning one asked me "did I do the right thing?"  FFS!!!!!

“Blame the other man” seems to have become the UK’s standard setting.

It’s possible that the other outcome would have come about if a greater percentage of young people had actually voted.

And am I the only person who suspects that UK would be in roughly same economic position we are now if we’d stayed in?

 Our high level performance isn’t that different to France, Germany,Italy, etc… So to believe some of the more extravagant claims about what what would happened IF we’d stayed in, then one needs to believe that for some reason we’d have substantially outperformed our EU partners.

Covid…and even more importantly a loss of the appetite for hard work…has had far more impact. (NB…my own appetite for hard work disappeared decades ago.)

[Blackpool Rock]

“Blame the other man” seems to have become the UK’s standard setting.

It’s possible that the other outcome would have come about if a greater percentage of young people had actually voted.

And am I the only person who suspects that UK would be in roughly same economic position we are now if we’d stayed in?

 Our high level performance isn’t that different to France, Germany,Italy, etc… So to believe some of the more extravagant claims about what what would happened IF we’d stayed in, then one needs to believe that for some reason we’d have substantially outperformed our EU partners.

Covid…and even more importantly a loss of the appetite for hard work…has had far more impact. (NB…my own appetite for hard work disappeared decades ago.)

Quite possibly yes, I recently even saw a clip with Farage saying the Brexit we got wasn't really Brexit as we kept most of the ties we had with the EU but this means we can't actually achieve any / many of the actual potential benefits of leaving, a worst of both worlds scenario 

You only have to look at all manner of economic studies to see we haven't performed as well as we should have compared to other leading G7 and European competitors
Everyone had Covid; we all had / have the war in Ukraine but only the UK had Brexit

[jackdaw]

Quite possibly yes, I recently even saw a clip with Farage saying the Brexit we got wasn't really Brexit as we kept most of the ties we had with the EU but this means we can't actually achieve any / many of the actual potential benefits of leaving, a worst of both worlds scenario 

You only have to look at all manner of economic studies to see we haven't performed as well as we should have compared to other leading G7 and European competitors
Everyone had Covid; we all had / have the war in Ukraine but only the UK had Brexit

The “high level” studies I’ve seen that focus on actual out-turn actually don’t show that much difference between us and the EU block. But that block is significantly worse than most of the rest of the world.
(External Link/Members Only for example)

What has been consistently worse in my experience when UK has been compared to EU economically has been forecast performance. It’s almost as if the people making the forecasts have a point to prove.

My own gut feeling is that we’ve been slightly worse off as a result of coming out in economic terms, but I don’t see how any person could really be sure either way. For me, the sadder element has been the effect on the “mood music” of the country, that we don’t feel like the “United” Kingdom anymore, more like the “Divided Kingdom”.

But maybe, if the vote had been a narrow win for “Remain” that would have left us effectively just as divided.

[petermisc]

For me, the sadder element has been the effect on the “mood music” of the country, that we don’t feel like the “United” Kingdom anymore, more like the “Divided Kingdom”.

But maybe, if the vote had been a narrow win for “Remain” that would have left us effectively just as divided.

I think that you are right there.  If there had been a narrow remain win, the likes of Farrage would have soon been calling for yet another vote.

The issue seemed to divide the country between those who voted with their head or their heart.  The remainers who could see all the disadvantages of leaving, just couldn't communicate with the brexiteers who didn't care if we ended up worse off, provided that we "took back control", and vice versa.

It was patently obvious that leaving wasn't going to be a quick process if it wasn't to cause major problems.  Unfortunately the promised advantages, of reducing immigration and improved international trade, seem to be no closer.  Those trade deals that have been negotiated seem little better than we had in the EU, for example. 

[PepeMAGA]

I was going to put this in the finance thread then realized I can't really moan about it without a political edge.
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Maybe I'm missing something, but why would you make it less attractive to invest in the stock market at a time when the LSE needs incentives to make businesses stay? It seems like a really dumb move to me.
Unless they're thinking it will push personal investors to move their money to ISAs.

[myothernameis]

Looks trans.

My nibble, not biting is-
Scot Gov says ye can say these hateful things ( about trans) on line as of yesterday. 👀

How on earth do the police, police this law and act, from the Scottish Gov, so

Two comments are made, one is posted in a English region, and not breaking the law, and the other one posted from Glasgow, and this person is breaking the law

[chrishornx]

How on earth do the police, police this law and act, from the Scottish Gov, so

Two comments are made, one is posted in a English region, and not breaking the law, and the other one posted from Glasgow, and this person is breaking the law

as you say the one in England is legal the one in Scotland isn't

Simple really

[jackdaw]

as you say the one in England is legal the one in Scotland isn't

Simple really

Yes.

(But I think it’s a no brainer that nothing Rowling has said so far could be successfully prosecuted. I don’t believe any Scottish jury would find her guilty for saying some one is a man. Would anybody really be happy with thought of some one potentially going to jail for 7 years for that??)

[timsussex]

How on earth do the police, police this law and act, from the Scottish Gov, so

Two comments are made, one is posted in a English region, and not breaking the law, and the other one posted from Glasgow, and this person is breaking the law

Cross border differences are always potential problems - the Green party pushed for deposits on bottles in Scotland It was due to start in 2022 but has been pushed back to Oct 2025 "at the earliest"

Visions of lorry loads of bottles from England being "returned" and deposits claimed

[PepeMAGA]

Yes.

(But I think it’s a no brainer that nothing Rowling has said so far could be successfully prosecuted. I don’t believe any Scottish jury would find her guilty for saying some one is a man. Would anybody really be happy with thought of some one potentially going to jail for 7 years for that??)

I'm doubtful anyone with the profile of JK Rowling would be arrested, the publicity would be huge.
Not they wouldn't use it to collect scalps of famous people, but I think the fans and status make her fairly untouchable.

[jackdaw]

I'm doubtful anyone with the profile of JK Rowling would be arrested, the publicity would be huge.
Not they wouldn't use it to collect scalps of famous people, but I think the fans and status make her fairly untouchable.

Her latest tactic in her battle against the law puts an interesting spin on idea she’s untouchable.

Basically she said if any woman is arrested under the law for basically saying “that person is a man” she will repeat the exact words that woman has said.

It’s going to be fascinating.

[DastardlyDick]

I'm doubtful anyone with the profile of JK Rowling would be arrested, the publicity would be huge.

In the unlikely event Police Scotland did want to make an arrest, it would most likely be "by appointment" .
Publicity can cut both ways - the Scottish Government could choose Rowling to "make an example of" if they think the "plebs" aren't taking their Law seriously.

[badsin]

As Ali McCoist said on talksport, the police will have 48,000 folks to arrest as Rangers v Celtic this weekend....

[PepeMAGA]

Her latest tactic in her battle against the law puts an interesting spin on idea she’s untouchable.

Basically she said if any woman is arrested under the law for basically saying “that person is a man” she will repeat the exact words that woman has said.

It’s going to be fascinating.

Yes get the popcorn out

[myothernameis]

Her latest tactic in her battle against the law puts an interesting spin on idea she’s untouchable.

Basically she said if any woman is arrested under the law for basically saying “that person is a man” she will repeat the exact words that woman has said.

It’s going to be fascinating.

Will she do the same for any of the guys, who might utter words, to a trans-female

But I could see some trans-females, using this law as an excuse to get other person arrested, for there comments

[bigden40]

In the unlikely event Police Scotland did want to make an arrest, it would most likely be "by appointment" .
Publicity can cut both ways - the Scottish Government could choose Rowling to "make an example of" if they think the "plebs" aren't taking their Law seriously.

Which would be an amazing mass “red pill” moment.

[radioman33]

As Ali McCoist said on talksport, the police will have 48,000 folks to arrest as Rangers v Celtic this weekend....

They won’t be able to police this law,J K Rowling spoke the truth with good examples of vile individuals.

[mh]

No mention yet of perhaps the dumbest Tory politician ever to have (dis)graced parliament. I give you .... Willy Wragg. Aka Cum Wragg to his school chums, according to one Tweet I saw last night.

Sent a dick pick to a random bloke he met on Grindr then when threatened with publication he revealed the phone numbers of colleagues to the blackmailer rather than call the police. The numbers he gave out were then used in spearphishing attack attempts against the other MPs, possibly including current government ministers.

But he is 'mortified'  at what he did, so that's probably enough for PM and 'man of integrity' Sunak.

Just revealing the phone numbers of colleagues is law-breaking. But in effect he has taken part in a cyber attack against the UK government.



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[PumpDump]

No mention yet of perhaps the dumbest Tory politician ever to have (dis)graced parliament. I give you .... Willy Wragg. Aka Cum Wragg to his school chums, according to one Tweet I saw last night.

Sent a dick pick to a random bloke he met on Grindr then when threatened with publication he revealed the phone numbers of colleagues to the blackmailer rather than call the police. The numbers he gave out were then used in spearphishing attack attempts against the other MPs, possibly including current government ministers.

But he is 'mortified'  at what he did, so that's probably enough for PM and 'man of integrity' Sunak.

Just revealing the phone numbers of colleagues is law-breaking. But in effect he has taken part in a cyber attack against the UK government.



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No, no, no, you've got it all wrong, apparently he is a hero now!!

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He must be sucking the right cocks in Parliament.

[Doc Holliday]

He must be sucking the right cocks in Parliament.

I gather at least one of the MPs he dragged into it was Labour, so perhaps he is sucking 'left' cocks also 

This story should be truly shocking, but I think we are now beyond being shocked by any activity that politicians get involved with.

[Blackpool Rock]

No mention yet of perhaps the dumbest Tory politician ever to have (dis)graced parliament. I give you .... Willy Wragg. Aka Cum Wragg to his school chums, according to one Tweet I saw last night.

Sent a dick pick to a random bloke he met on Grindr then when threatened with publication he revealed the phone numbers of colleagues to the blackmailer rather than call the police. The numbers he gave out were then used in spearphishing attack attempts against the other MPs, possibly including current government ministers.

But he is 'mortified'  at what he did, so that's probably enough for PM and 'man of integrity' Sunak.

Just revealing the phone numbers of colleagues is law-breaking. But in effect he has taken part in a cyber attack against the UK government.



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Fuck me exactly how dumb do you have to be  The show was being run by a total dimwit AKA Bojo the clown 

[mh]

Fuck me exactly how dumb do you have to be  The show was being run by a total dimwit AKA Bojo the clown 

Yes, fair point, that was the complete and utter Johnson who had his mobile phone compromised so that it had to be stored in a lead box and the man who slipped his Foreign Office minders to attend a bunga bunga party in Italy organised by an ex-KGB man.

[george r]

Cross border differences are always potential problems - the Green party pushed for deposits on bottles in Scotland It was due to start in 2022 but has been pushed back to Oct 2025 "at the earliest"

Visions of lorry loads of bottles from England being "returned" and deposits claimed

reminds me of when we were kids taking pop bottles back for 3d

[Bertiebeenthere]

You were posh, it was only 1d at my local beeroff.

[DastardlyDick]

reminds me of when we were kids taking pop bottles back for 3d

Me and some of my mates used to nip round into the shop's back yard, nick the empties and take them to a different shop for "seconds", little scrotes that we were!

[JontyR]

So you get a phone call in the middle of the night asking for money from your MP because they were locked in a flat by bad people.
What would you do?

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[jackdaw]

So you get a phone call in the middle of the night asking for money from your MP because they were locked in a flat by bad people.
What would you do?

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Turn phone off. Go back to sleep.

But, joking aside a weird case. With good look mp concerned may pay a load of money back, and end up in jail.

[jackdaw]

See Nicola Sturgeon’s husband has been formally charged in connection with misuse of SNP funds.

[Blackpool Rock]

So you get a phone call in the middle of the night asking for money from your MP because they were locked in a flat by bad people.
What would you do?

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Come on Jonty i'm sure most of us have been there at some point or another 

It does strike me that Tory MP's historically do tend to have more of this type of "Scandal" than other parties and that's after factoring in them being the larger party

So at present in my immediate area we appear to have all the Tory MP's with either the whip removed or under some sort of investigation -
This guy Mark Menzies represents The Fylde area which is to the South of Blackpool and covers an area including Lytham and St Annes etc

Scott Benton for Blackpool South recently resigned (before the recall petition formally removed the whip) after being caught out in a sting operation where he agreed to break lobbying rules for a back hander 

Paul Maynard for Blackpool North is also currently under investigation for using tax payers money to fund his campaign 
   

[Doc Holliday]

Come on Jonty i'm sure most of us have been there at some point or another 

It does strike me that Tory MP's historically do tend to have more of this type of "Scandal" than other parties and that's after factoring in them being the larger party

So at present in my immediate area we appear to have all the Tory MP's with either the whip removed or under some sort of investigation -
This guy Mark Menzies represents The Fylde area which is to the South of Blackpool and covers an area including Lytham and St Annes etc

Scott Benton for Blackpool South recently resigned (before the recall petition formally removed the whip) after being caught out in a sting operation where he agreed to break lobbying rules for a back hander 

Paul Maynard for Blackpool North is also currently under investigation for using tax payers money to fund his campaign 
 

Mark Menzies survived for ten years External Link/Members Only. Very strong Tory seat as you would expect for Fylde area.

Paul Maynard has done remarkably well to get to where he has, given what his childhood threw at him. Shame if he has also been corrupt, though his small majority would have lost his seat anyway.

Scott Benton .... won't waste ink commenting about him.

[radioman33]

Listening to the Menzies story breaking yesterday how much lower can the
Tories go?hes also got history.Why don’t they just call an election as they are finished.

[JontyR]

Listening to the Menzies story breaking yesterday how much lower can the
Tories go?hes also got history.Why don’t they just call an election as they are finished.

8 months extra pay and allowances whilst they sort themselves out with a new job.

[jackdaw]

8 months extra pay and allowances whilst they sort themselves out with a new job.

Plus the hope I suppose that Labour have a major setback in the next few months.

My guess is latest kerfuffle about Rayner has got potential to cause some damage, something else might emerge. Labour will win, but the margin of victory might be reduced.