Can a escort be a feminist too?

[Metalgear2018]

I do agree to an extent. I'm happy to be told I am wrong with chess playing a large number of chess masters seem to be Jewish or Indian, I think it might be down to pushy parents, as well as possibly some deep level focus issue on small details, almost in an OCD way. Once again possibly racist, but many black people make great boxers due to being more aggressive on average than whites or possibly core body strength - that said there's no hard or fast rules.

With Hamilton, I know a lot of people find it an inconvenient truth (people like David Lammy), but there are many incredibly wealthy black families, so I don't think it is just done to money although F1 like Polo and golf is "pay to play".

It's about connections too. Just because you are rich. It does not entitle you into certain clubs or memberships. You won't see a white Essex lad in a polo match.

As for boxing. It's has historically been for the poor giving them opportunities

[Kinkykate78]

It does when they want to compare cock sizes 

 

[TailSeeker]

The latter I find hard to believe. Why are there very few famous Black chess players? or Formula 1 drivers? or Water polo players? It may sound racist, but some races are just better at certain skillsets, I don't expect to see a black man riding the winning horse in the Grand National, likewise it seems to be mainly black people winning running medals in the olympics for Britain.

With swimmers it's not just lack of role models, but it goes back to slavery. Slaves weren't allowed to learn to swim as you didn't want them to have that means of escape. Then move further in time, and the relaxed hair periods, you wouldn't swim if you'd had your hair relaxed as the water would undo it. Which combined I think has created a culture of non-competitive swimmers. Or just generally swimming.

It also surprises me how few central Asian individuals know how to swim. So it may also be in part access to safe swimming water.

As for the rest, access to opportunities. Learning how to run is free, you can do it anywhere. Owning a horse - fucking expensive. I got 2 weeks of horse riding lessons subsidised by my school offered at £300 (consider this was also 15 years ago). My parents obviously refused and said I could have the 2 weeks of Japanese lessons subsidised for £20. So in part there it is down to money, and by circumstances, most of the rich are white. Most of those sports involve money to get into, and little pay off. So it's not entirely unsurprising that black children don't get into them. As for all of them you have to start very young. And the countries they come from might not always have a gateway for them.

[peter purves]

With swimmers it's not just lack of role models, but it goes back to slavery. Slaves weren't allowed to learn to swim as you didn't want them to have that means of escape. Then move further in time, and the relaxed hair periods, you wouldn't swim if you'd had your hair relaxed as the water would undo it. Which combined I think has created a culture of non-competitive swimmers. Or just generally swimming.

I have never heard this line of reasoning before.

One of the hurdles to get over is say for instance, Why have those from the African continent - never slaves - have never managed to produce any great Olympic swimmers?

As for the hair explanation sounds like an urban myth.

Personally when trying to work out why one particular ethnic group and/or race is good at a particular sport. What actually is happening is a post-hoc analysis ie one observes say Blacks win many gold medals in the Olympic sprint. Then one tries to find an explanation or rationalisation for this which is racial - if you see the world through 'race' when in need not be.

An example close to home is that there is a considerable Asian population but literally only a handful in the football league which as around 90 clubs?

Why is it?  Being Asian (ie genetically derived from the Indian subcontinent) means they are not good at football??

Sorry for interrupting the conversation - back to you guys as you were   

[Roped]

Only if fat and ugly like most feminists

[TailSeeker]

I have never heard this line of reasoning before.

One of the hurdles to get over is say for instance, Why have those from the African continent - never slaves - have never managed to produce any great Olympic swimmers?

As for the hair explanation sounds like an urban myth.

Personally when trying to work out why one particular ethnic group and/or race is good at a particular sport. What actually is happening is a post-hoc analysis ie one observes say Blacks win many gold medals in the Olympic sprint. Then one tries to find an explanation or rationalisation for this which is racial - if you see the world through 'race' when in need not be.

An example close to home is that there is a considerable Asian population but literally only a handful in the football league which as around 90 clubs?

Why is it?  Being Asian (ie genetically derived from the Indian subcontinent) means they are not good at football??

Sorry for interrupting the conversation - back to you guys as you were   

You're certainly right that we're applying backwards reasoning, but that is often how researchers come to results when looking at society.

As for the hair thing, I know many black women who can attest to it, even with the change from a hot comb to chemicals used now, so I'm going off of them. Those that are still relaxing it avoid getting it wet as much as possible, and avoid swimming in pools.

Now for those that have natural hair, you do have swimmers, but in a lot of countries access to swimming pools is limited. It's very much a cultural thing in those instances.

I don't know much about football in India, I do know that cricket is very popular, and you do certainly see a good representation of Asian individuals in cricket. So it is very likely that a difference of representation in different sports is down to lack of cultural interest, and as such that lack of interest leads to lack of facilities and training opportunities.

I mean, gaming is a sport now, but it's dominated by East Asians rather than whites because it's seen as childish/a waste of time in the West.

Basically, there are a lot of factors to consider. Nothing is ever as clean cut as we'd like to think.

[peter purves]

You're certainly right that we're applying backwards reasoning, but that is often how researchers come to results when looking at society.

As for the hair thing, I know many black women who can attest to it, even with the change from a hot comb to chemicals used now, so I'm going off of them. Those that are still relaxing it avoid getting it wet as much as possible, and avoid swimming in pools.

Now for those that have natural hair, you do have swimmers, but in a lot of countries access to swimming pools is limited. It's very much a cultural thing in those instances.

I don't know much about football in India, I do know that cricket is very popular, and you do certainly see a good representation of Asian individuals in cricket. So it is very likely that a difference of representation in different sports is down to lack of cultural interest, and as such that lack of interest leads to lack of facilities and training opportunities.

I mean, gaming is a sport now, but it's dominated by East Asians rather than whites because it's seen as childish/a waste of time in the West.

Basically, there are a lot of factors to consider. Nothing is ever as clean cut as we'd like to think.

I agree with what you say here!!

Just a few minor points, with regard to Black women, this is something they say when they are older ie Most people learn to swim in their primary school years. Anything beyond that is 'late' IMHO.

With regard to Asians I was referring to here in England

'Despite making up seven per cent of the United Kingdom’s population, only 11 British South Asians have played professional football in England'.

External Link/Members Only

Anyhow back to you guys 

[LLPunting]

I agree with what you say here!!

Just a few minor points, with regard to Black women, this is something they say when they are older ie Most people learn to swim in their primary school years. Anything beyond that is 'late' IMHO.

With regard to Asians I was referring to here in England

'Despite making up seven per cent of the United Kingdom’s population, only 11 British South Asians have played professional football in England'.

External Link/Members Only

Anyhow back to you guys 

What about that girl from Bend it like Beckham? 

[TailSeeker]

I agree with what you say here!!

Just a few minor points, with regard to Black women, this is something they say when they are older ie Most people learn to swim in their primary school years. Anything beyond that is 'late' IMHO.

With regard to Asians I was referring to here in England

'Despite making up seven per cent of the United Kingdom’s population, only 11 British South Asians have played professional football in England'.

External Link/Members Only

Anyhow back to you guys 

You do raise very valid points and I think times are changing as we become more global. More opportunities and interests are available for people than before, and it's growing as time goes on.

I suspect once we get past the stupid isolationist idea that some politicians spout, we'll move back to global and more will be shared, and representation will grow. And interests will spread more, as even in England among the Asian community cricket is more popular, it'll just take faces appearing in sports to bring on popularity.

[LLPunting]

You're certainly right that we're applying backwards reasoning, but that is often how researchers come to results when looking at society.

As for the hair thing, I know many black women who can attest to it, even with the change from a hot comb to chemicals used now, so I'm going off of them. Those that are still relaxing it avoid getting it wet as much as possible, and avoid swimming in pools.

Now for those that have natural hair, you do have swimmers, but in a lot of countries access to swimming pools is limited. It's very much a cultural thing in those instances.

I don't know much about football in India, I do know that cricket is very popular, and you do certainly see a good representation of Asian individuals in cricket. So it is very likely that a difference of representation in different sports is down to lack of cultural interest, and as such that lack of interest leads to lack of facilities and training opportunities.

I mean, gaming is a sport now, but it's dominated by East Asians rather than whites because it's seen as childish/a waste of time in the West.

Basically, there are a lot of factors to consider. Nothing is ever as clean cut as we'd like to think.

1.5 billions Indians and Pakistanis vs less than 200 million (?) in other cricket loving countries.  Just saying...

E-sports is a new avenue of opportunity that has arisen from the vast populations of otherwise idle/unfulfilled youth in countries who had access to PCs (and latterly consoles).  Wealthier/traditional classes may have greater stigma associated to not doing a "real" job but the poorer/less fulfilled populations everywhere would/have jumped at the chance to make money from the activities they have time and passion for.
Parallels to boxing, football and other poor people's professional sports are probably in play here.

[Ali Katt]

'Despite making up seven per cent of the United Kingdom’s population, only 11 British South Asians have played professional football in England'.

External Link/Members Only

Anyhow back to you guys 

Because everytime they take a corner they build a shop. The old ones are truly the oldest.

[Metalgear2018]

Only if fat and ugly like most feminists

Ouch

[Ali Katt]

E-sports is a new avenue of opportunity that has arisen from the vast populations of otherwise idle/unfulfilled youth in countries who had access to PCs (and latterly consoles).  Wealthier/traditional classes may have greater stigma associated to not doing a "real" job but the poorer/less fulfilled populations everywhere would/have jumped at the chance to make money from the activities they have time and passion for.
Parallels to boxing, football and other poor people's professional sports are probably in play here.

E-sports will never be cool as it's an armchair sport, it require no athletic ability just persistent, a few years ago I would have called myself a gamer, now I do still play videogames, but very rarely it's time drain sorry for gamers out there, but going to the gym, reading books and making\listening music is a better use of my time. I don't envy or disrespect professional gamers I'm just saying some guy in Korea who is an expert Splatoon or Fortnite player will not hold the same prestige as Simona Halep, Klitschko or Jessica Ennis.

[LLPunting]

E-sports will never be cool as it's an armchair sport, it require no athletic ability just persistent, a few years ago I would have called myself a gamer, now I do still play videogames, but very rarely it's time drain sorry for gamers out there, but going to the gym, reading books and making\listening music is a better use of my time. I don't envy or disrespect professional gamers I'm just saying some guy in Korea who is an expert Splatoon or Fortnite player will not hold the same prestige as Simona Halep, Klitschko or Jessica Ennis.

I'm thinking you fancy fucking some of your sporting idols.

Physical coordination, speed of reflexes, creativity, a strategic and tactical mind and mental agility are highly commendable in their own right and rightly cool.  Being stronger or a faster runner or being the lead guitar are not the sole measure of accomplishment or coolness.

[Ali Katt]

I'm thinking you fancy fucking some of your sporting idols.

Physical coordination, speed of reflexes, creativity, a strategic and tactical mind and mental agility are highly commendable in their own right and rightly cool.  Being stronger or a faster runner or being the lead guitar are not the sole measure of accomplishment or coolness.

Nah. No man crushes and most athletes are about 4 dress sizes for me. I am trying to get in shape and have practically lost the beer belly, but want to be as cut as fuck which is why I admire athletes. Sitting at home playing videogames in a semi-lit room, it's what I did when I was 14 and wanted to beat FFVII, looking back I wasted my time what I could have done instead was read book and get myself more knowledge. Sure, it's my personal prejudice, but a 20 year champion of Fortnite will never be in the same league as say Mo Farrah who is up on the race track at dawn every morning. That said chess masters or even scrabble champions I respect and it isn't envy as I am shit at videogames, it is just logical more people want to be the next David Haye, Murray or David Beckham that the next champion of Overwatch. Like I say I want to be proven wrong, but so far I don't think I am.

[mrfishyfoo]

Because everytime they take a corner they build a shop. The old ones are truly the oldest.

 

[Ali Katt]

That joke was probably inscribed in the walls of Noah's Ark, but I had to get in there first.

[TailSeeker]

E-sports will never be cool as it's an armchair sport, it require no athletic ability just persistent, a few years ago I would have called myself a gamer, now I do still play videogames, but very rarely it's time drain sorry for gamers out there, but going to the gym, reading books and making\listening music is a better use of my time. I don't envy or disrespect professional gamers I'm just saying some guy in Korea who is an expert Splatoon or Fortnite player will not hold the same prestige as Simona Halep, Klitschko or Jessica Ennis.

E-sports, whilst not widely known right now, are pretty popular, and centres are popping up now in the West for it, not just in the far East. Like yourself, I don't get it, but there are celebs for it. And the competitions are growing in size and spread. Hence the popularity of twitch (I do not understand the interest in watching someone else play a game, but different strokes).

I enjoy the odd computer game, but don't understand how this is now a sport. But then I'm not into gaming that much, outside of the odd marathon of Settlers.

[TailSeeker]

Only if fat and ugly like most feminists

No, those are just the SWERFs, TERFs, and RFs. Who are just cunts who have to hate on other women to give an excuse on why they can't get laid.

Rest of us are fairly normal, we're just not screaming bullshit in your face as we acknowledge it as being bullshit and won't use it.

[LLPunting]

E-sports, whilst not widely known right now, are pretty popular, and centres are popping up now in the West for it, not just in the far East. Like yourself, I don't get it, but there are celebs for it. And the competitions are growing in size and spread. Hence the popularity of twitch (I do not understand the interest in watching someone else play a game, but different strokes).

I enjoy the odd computer game, but don't understand how this is now a sport. But then I'm not into gaming that much, outside of the odd marathon of Settlers.

E-sports is plenty big already
"Looking at the raw figures, it seems odd that more brands have not given esports a try. The global audience is projected to grow from 385 million people in 2017 to 589 million by 2020, according to widely cited figures from Newzoo. Prize pots for tournaments stretch into the tens of millions and broadcast rights are being sold for eye-watering sums." External Link/Members Only

Plenty of e-sports players who are also gym-bunnies

[TailSeeker]

E-sports is plenty big already
"Looking at the raw figures, it seems odd that more brands have not given esports a try. The global audience is projected to grow from 385 million people in 2017 to 589 million by 2020, according to widely cited figures from Newzoo. Prize pots for tournaments stretch into the tens of millions and broadcast rights are being sold for eye-watering sums." External Link/Members Only

Plenty of e-sports players who are also gym-bunnies

I wasn't aware it'd gotten that big, I knew it was big, but not that much.

And I'd never said anything about their physics, some certainly are fairly fit, but admittedly others are not. Most fall in the middle. Not fat, but not ripped.

[LLPunting]

I wasn't aware it'd gotten that big, I knew it was big, but not that much.

And I'd never said anything about their physics, some certainly are fairly fit, but admittedly others are not. Most fall in the middle. Not fat, but not ripped.

AK was dissing their physical fitness.

[Ali Katt]

AK was dissing their physical fitness.

Half true. I was dissing the amount of effort involved; to sit in a dark room playing videogames for 10 hours a day seems easier than getting up at 5am, doing an 8 mile run and training in the gym for 5 hours. A Korean 17 year old who is an expert on Fortnite will never be as aspirational as Beckham or Mo Farrah, sorry, but I don't make the rules.

[LLPunting]

Half true. I was dissing the amount of effort involved; to sit in a dark room playing videogames for 10 hours a day seems easier than getting up at 5am, doing an 8 mile run and training in the gym for 5 hours. A Korean 17 year old who is an expert on Fortnite will never be as aspirational as Beckham or Mo Farrah, sorry, but I don't make the rules.

You mean others won't want to aspire to being an expert in Fortnite?  I think you will find that you're wrong, it's pretty safe to say that more people play video games than support football or athletics and many would like to have a highest score or be one of the best.   The expert at Fortnite is more attainable than being a handsome, skilled footballer.  Mo Farrah is not only dedicated he's physiologically gifted to a rare extreme.

Perhaps you meant inspirational but that also is dismissive of the unnamed individual's circumstances and values.

Mastering a multi-map game with tens of thousands of permutations of weapons, moves, phases and opponent skillsets is as complex as top tier driving or flying, mix in the fact you may need to be a great, spontaneous collaborator and there is plenty to tax most people. 

You prize physical conditioning but greatness and aspiration is attached to many more disciplines and attributes.

Let's discuss this on a separate thread if you want as this is OT.

On topic:
Yes a feminist can choose to be an escort.  It is the ultimate exercise of her right to earn a living how she chooses without condemnation or inhibition by puritanical taboos that have no place in an eqalitarian, pluralist society.
The more pressing question is why women can't just as freely avail themselves of sex workers.  If women had equal pay and by implication more disposable income would they want more sex workers for their needs?

[stevedave]

Have to admit, I've not read a lot of this thread, but wanted to add my two penneth worth.

I think prostitution is possibly one of the most empowering, feminist friendly industries out there. It basically is a tacit admission by men that they/we cannot cope without a woman, whether it's for 15 minutes, 4 hours, whatever. And they make a shit load of money out of, effectively, exploiting men and our seeming inability to think with anything other than our dicks.

[meandering-maya]

Violet Vulgarity aka Whiskey London
Priya Glasgow
Desi Derata London and touring
all feminists and good punt
Probably loads more

Just a clarification as I've been name-searching; I don't (or no longer) identify as a feminist! Certainly wouldn't class myself as an "anti-feminist" or similar; there are a lot of complex reasons for me abandoning the label and I don't think this forum is the best place to discuss them.