No more OWO?

[stewpid]

After going years without any issues, including punts in Thailand, I've contracted non-gonococcal urethritis twice in the last 18 months. 

Both cases have come from having OWO (never have unprotected penetration), the latest case particularly annoying as the WG I can track it to was a good session and I would have returned but obviously not now.

I don't really want to have to give up having OWO in punts but perhaps it's now safer to just have everything protected. Or have I just been unlucky?

[Ben1983]

OWO, albeit a low one, is still a risk.
Me personally, I always opt for OWO and I accept the fact I’m taking a small risk.

Over the last few years, I’ve seen 24 different girls (But only joined this site this year, hence low reviews)
All protected sex, but always had OWO.

My results have always come back clean.

[LLPunting]

External Link/Members Only + related reading External Link/Members Only, External Link/Members Only

Why do you presume it's caught from sexual contact with an SP?  No chance any other sex partners could be the cause?

[Bigballs00]

You can get that from rough masterbation and tearing your urethra which then contracts a bacterial infection. Have you had a rough wank recently? Your hand could be the culprit for this “STI”

Here’s a tip that might work for you (as it works for women). Go for a piss after the deed to piss out the bacteria up your jap-eye. Women have a shorter urethra and it’s recommended they have a slash to avoid bladder infection and what you had

[scutty brown]

"non-gonococcal urethritis"
so in other words they couldn't find an infective agent. Could easily be caused by too much wanking

and a tip - try drinking lot of cranberry juice, at least half a litre a day

[stewpid]

External Link/Members Only + related reading External Link/Members Only, External Link/Members Only

Why do you presume it's caught from sexual contact with an SP?  No chance any other sex partners could be the cause?

No civvie sex in the last 8 months.

Didn't know that masturbation could cause this though. Don't think my wanking has been that vigorous but something to consider...

[scutty brown]

No civvie sex in the last 8 months.

Didn't know that masturbation could cause this though. Don't think my wanking has been that vigorous but something to consider...

Doesn't have to be vigorous, just too often for some people

[thenicz]

This may seem a bit odd but I haven't had a wank since 1958, which isn't bad as it's only 0727 now

[scutty brown]

This may seem a bit odd but I haven't had a wank since 1958, which isn't bad as it's only 0727 now

I was tossing and turning all night last night, couldn't sleep at all

[Bigballs00]

This may seem a bit odd but I haven't had a wank since 1958, which isn't bad as it's only 0727 now

 

[Doc Holliday]

The attempts to divert this to 'other causes' is another example of OWO risk denial 

There is a very high balance of probability this is sexually transmitted. As other have said NGU means it is not gonorrhoea but could well be Chlamydia which accounts for the majority of cases of NGU (NSU) in men.

External Link/Members Only

[Doc Holliday]

I don't really want to have to give up having OWO in punts but perhaps it's now safer to just have everything protected. Or have I just been unlucky?

Unlucky maybe, but you would need to take into account your sexual history within that 18 month period? If for example you had OWO on several hundred occasions during that period then luck and the random nature of STIs comes into it.

However if you only had say 20 exposures and two infections then you have either been excessively unlucky or you need to consider an individual susceptibility or host response to such exposures?

The only way you can be sure is to cover up.

[winkywanky]

As I thought might be the case, this appears to be a 'renaming' of NSU (non-specific urethritis). I had it many years ago, and was told by the doc that it could have been caused by any number of things, and not necessarily a sexual source (although statistically the likelihood of that would be high).

I'm a little surprised though, that someone who's treated for this isn't told what the actual infection was. For instance if it were chlamydia, this would be very worth knowing, not only just for one's own sake, but because it would be good to let other sexual partners know.

[workinallweek]

  life is a risk 

[Doc Holliday]

I'm a little surprised though, that someone who's treated for this isn't told what the actual infection was. For instance if it were chlamydia, this would be very worth knowing, not only just for one's own sake, but because it would be good to let other sexual partners know.

I suspect this is largely due to the widespread use of the urine test in men for diagnosis. Gonorrhoea needs to be eliminated because of potential treatment difficulties etc but all the other causes are more or less treated the same and with (currently) a good response. Whilst the urine test is now pretty accurate it is not always conclusive and specificity is of less importance to be passed on to the patient.

In women chlamydia is potentially a much more serious condition and swab testing is standard which will give you a 99.9% certainty.

In terms of other partners if an STI is suspected all other partners should (in line with good practice) be notified but under the NHS partner notification scheme the exact nature of the STI is not passed on anyway, merely that they may be at risk and should get tested.

[whoya.kiddin]

Stewpid, sorry to hear of your bad luck.  I have been punting coming up 6 years and in that time seen literally hundreds of SP's. I only book OWO providers.  I caught NSU once - through what I consider my own stupid fault (not washing afterwards). 

Now, on the advice of a doctor in a clap clinic and also I should say from experienced SP's I
1) always urinate immediately after sex (always includes OWO) and
2) wash my cock and under my foreskin thoroughly with neat liquid soap applied directly to the skin and soaped to a lather before rinsing with warm water (think of the way a surgeon washes their hands...)
3) never punt with any kind scrape, abrasion, spots or wounds on or near my cock and avoid SP's who are rough or refuse to use lubricant.   

Soap is a surfactant which means it will kill bugs.  It won't stop bugs that make their way into your urethra but thorough hygiene significantly reduces your chances of picking up infections.

[winkywanky]

Soap is a surfactant which means it will kill bugs.  It won't stop bugs that make their way into your urethra but thorough hygiene significantly reduces your chances of picking up infections.

That's wrong, being a surfactant has nothing to do with being antibiotic.

Being a surfactant has to do with surface tension of a fluid.

[winkywanky]

I suspect this is largely due to the widespread use of the urine test in men for diagnosis. Gonorrhoea needs to be eliminated because of potential treatment difficulties etc but all the other causes are more or less treated the same and with (currently) a good response. Whilst the urine test is now pretty accurate it is not always conclusive and specificity is of less importance to be passed on to the patient.

In women chlamydia is potentially a much more serious condition and swab testing is standard which will give you a 99.9% certainty.

In terms of other partners if an STI is suspected all other partners should (in line with good practice) be notified but under the NHS partner notification scheme the exact nature of the STI is not passed on anyway, merely that they may be at risk and should get tested.

Seeing as women will almost certainly get chlamydia off men (and yes, it's more serious for them because it can cause infertility and other shit), it seems a little crazy that it's not taken as seriously in men, even though it personally won't do them as much damage.

So if a guy is diagnosed with NSU, does the NHS now request phone details of his sexual partners?

[Doc Holliday]

That's wrong

Most of the post is wrong and another example of why you shouldn't get advice from a punting forum 

[winkywanky]

I suspected that but didn't comment.

Which is another reason why you should keep pulling people up on it, because you know what the fuck you're talking about.

[Doc Holliday]

Seeing as women will almost certainly get chlamydia off men (and yes, it's more serious for them because it can cause infertility and other shit), it seems a little crazy that it's not taken as seriously in men, even though it personally won't do them as much damage.

So if a guy is diagnosed with NSU, does the NHS now request phone details of his sexual partners?

It is taken seriously in terms of passing on to others, but any doubt into the exact causal bacteria within the parameters of the urine test, means the patient will be told it is non specific.

Assuming the OP was seen at an NHS clinic and an STI deemed the likely diagnosis they will have asked for cooperation with regard to partner notification.

[winkywanky]

 

[Beamer]

The simple answer is to consider that OWO is in the same category as BB and any other activity that has risk. I personally gave up on OWO some time ago but I still partake in RO which puts me at risk.  Its choice vs risk vs consequences.........

[winkywanky]

Statistically I'm pretty sure the risk is greater with BB than with OWO, both in terms of the severity of what you might catch, as well as the likelihood of catching something.

But yes, everything where there is any bare contact contains some risk, and the level of 'acceptable risk' is ultimately the punter's choice.

You can be totally covered up and still get herpes off the WG with simply the hello/goodbye kiss at the punt.

[Strawberry]

Stewpid, sorry to hear of your bad luck.  I have been punting coming up 6 years and in that time seen literally hundreds of SP's. I only book OWO providers.  I caught NSU once - through what I consider my own stupid fault (not washing afterwards). 

Now, on the advice of a doctor in a clap clinic and also I should say from experienced SP's I
1) always urinate immediately after sex (always includes OWO) and
2) wash my cock and under my foreskin thoroughly with neat liquid soap applied directly to the skin and soaped to a lather before rinsing with warm water (think of the way a surgeon washes their hands...)
3) never punt with any kind scrape, abrasion, spots or wounds on or near my cock and avoid SP's who are rough or refuse to use lubricant.   

Soap is a surfactant which means it will kill bugs.  It won't stop bugs that make their way into your urethra but thorough hygiene significantly reduces your chances of picking up infections.

According to my reading and understanding soap is not antibacterial, most soap washing works by removing the layer of natural oils in which bacteria may be trapped, from the skin combined with the dilution effect of rinsing.

Thanks to Doc for the information he has posted I'm always learning and never assume. Also interesting to learn the urine test isn't necessarily specific.

[whoya.kiddin]

Most of the post is wrong and another example of why you shouldn't get advice from a punting forum 

I am happy to be educated; do oblige.

[LLPunting]

It is taken seriously in terms of passing on to others, but any doubt into the exact causal bacteria within the parameters of the urine test, means the patient will be told it is non specific.

Assuming the OP was seen at an NHS clinic and an STI deemed the likely diagnosis they will have asked for cooperation with regard to partner notification.

Every time I've been to the GUM in the past decade or so I have had urine, blood and urethral swabs taken.  Are you saying that the swabs are not used to test for Chlamydia as well as other infections?
Given the more severe implications for females it would make sense to be sure and tell the patient rather than appease their anxiety by saying it's undetermined by an insufficiently thorough test.

[Beamer]

IMO anyone who takes any notice of so called advice on this topic needs to understand that most of the comments are BLX.  Go to the professionals.

[HarryZZ]

Did you contact the SP? She will have had a number of other clients similarly infected presumably, and would confirm she was the source?
Obviously if it wasn't her and there was another source then it would be only right to warn her to avoid it being passed any further.

[John Johnson]

Soap is pretty efficient at killing bacteria, the soap breaks down lipids (fats) in the cell wall of the bacteria. You could also give your tackle a good rub down with alcohol based hand sanitizer or even a chlorhexadine solution.....try Corsodyl mouthwash. It's chemically what is used in surgery to sterilise a patient's skin.

[Itsnotshy]

Never had any problem with OWO so far, touch wood.
Did however have NSU when I was about 10, most likely related to bad hygiene.
Always a good idea to wash beneath the foreskin regularly. I use Canesfresh gel these days, smells nice, and no problem with irritation something you can get with normal soap.
As everyone else says though get checked regularly and all should be well.......touch wood.

[Strawberry]

IMO anyone who takes any notice of so called advice on this topic needs to understand that most of the comments are BLX.  Go to the professionals.

I found the leaflet Doc linked to during my visit to the GUM today.

[Doc Holliday]

Every time I've been to the GUM in the past decade or so I have had urine, blood and urethral swabs taken.  Are you saying that the swabs are not used to test for Chlamydia as well as other infections?

No I seem to be confusing you. Both urine and swabs are tested for chlamydia. I understand the urine test has improved to the stage where, in men, the accuracy is almost comparable to the swab in terms of negative results ie both are considered around 99% accurate. The difficulty arises with the positive results for both methods where the accuracy drops and for example a positive chlamydia may only be around 90-95% or even less accurate.

Therefore with either method of testing (slightly more so with urine tests) a positive result for the presence of an infection does not always translate into a definite positive for Chlamydia and is therefore designated non specific although it is believed many are in fact still Chlamydia.

Swabs are essential for women, but urine tests alone without urethral swabs have become more commonplace for men for routine testing, because it is considered better tolerated. Many men are still put off by fears of having a swab taken. That said many clinics still take urethral swabs routinely for screening but this is decreasing (or should be?)

Of course anyone with symptoms should have a urethral swab taken.

[winkywanky]

According to my reading and understanding soap is not antibacterial, most soap washing works by removing the layer of natural oils in which bacteria may be trapped, from the skin combined with the dilution effect of rinsing.

Thanks to Doc for the information he has posted I'm always learning and never assume. Also interesting to learn the urine test isn't necessarily specific.

Well inherently it's not, it depends on whether you buy antibacterial soap when you're in the supermarket. Plenty available, and always marked up as such.

[winkywanky]

Soap is pretty efficient at killing bacteria, the soap breaks down lipids (fats) in the cell wall of the bacteria. You could also give your tackle a good rub down with alcohol based hand sanitizer or even a chlorhexadine solution.....try Corsodyl mouthwash. It's chemically what is used in surgery to sterilise a patient's skin.

You certainly wouldn't want to rely on that.

What's much better is to simply buy antibacterial soap, it actually contains an active ingredient that kills bugs rather than just relying on making life uncomfortable for them and might kill them.

[Strawberry]

No I seem to be confusing you. Both urine and swabs are tested for chlamydia. I understand the urine test has improved to the stage where, in men, the accuracy is almost comparable to the swab in terms of negative results ie both are considered around 99% accurate. The difficulty arises with the positive results for both methods where the accuracy drops and for example a positive chlamydia may only be around 90-95% or even less accurate.

Therefore with either method of testing (slightly more so with urine tests) a positive result for the presence of an infection does not always translate into a definite positive for Chlamydia and is therefore designated non specific although it is believed many are in fact still Chlamydia.

Swabs are essential for women, but urine tests alone without urethral swabs have become more commonplace for men for routine testing, because it is considered better tolerated. Many men are still put off by fears of having a swab taken. That said many clinics still take urethral swabs routinely for screening but this is decreasing (or should be?)

Of course anyone with symptoms should have a urethral swab taken.

I am never asked for a urine test only ever swabs(or certainly I cannot remember providing a urine sample for GUM/Sexual health testing) and bloods, there are signs up around the [unisex] loos advising to not have a pee before your appointment.

[Bonker]

I got swollen balls and a burst scrotum after oral sex.
From an ignorant foreign girl who took a literal interpretation of blow job.

The sound my deflating dick made was quite funny though.

[winkywanky]

Bet your bladder was big enough to play football with after that as well  .

[Doc Holliday]

I am never asked for a urine test only ever swabs(or certainly I cannot remember providing a urine sample for GUM/Sexual health testing) and bloods,

That's good to hear that wherever you attend is following best practice.

.. there are signs up around the [unisex] loos advising to not have a pee before your appointment.

Yes its intended primarily for us men and there is a gold standard of an hour minimum abstinence before the test sample, although I think some studies suggest this may be overkill and that 20 minutes will not significantly effect the results.

Abstinence can be a problem especially if you have travelled some distance to a clinic or delayed etc .. or indeed if you are nervous or he wrong side of 60 

That is actually an advantage of the home screening testing kits, as you can choose the timing of your test sample at your leisure.

[Doc Holliday]

I got swollen balls and a burst scrotum after oral sex.
From an ignorant foreign girl who took a literal interpretation of blow job.

The sound my deflating dick made was quite funny though.

That's probably the best post in the thread 

[MrMatrix]

I got swollen balls and a burst scrotum after oral sex.
From an ignorant foreign girl who took a literal interpretation of blow job.

The sound my deflating dick made was quite funny though.

OMG


This is the sort of thread Tailseeker would have been commenting on. Shame she is lost to us now.

So after all this debate. What is the definitive answer to soaps , anti bacs, Corsodyl etc. Me I take a wash bag when I go for a punt.

Doc , you are now the forum expert as I see it

Here is a recent comment by GB on Corsodyl.

You need to be wary of Corsodyl. It works by forming a seal around teeth/gums so it's vitally important you thoroughly clean your mouth/teeth/tongue BEFORE swilling with it. If you don't do this, you're just sealing the germs in - the last thing you want to be doing.
Ideally you'd brush your teeth but if that's not practicable, thoroughly swill/rinse your mouth with water first before finishing off with Corsodyl.

There is clearly a lot of information about but consolodating it into an accepted best practice for both punter and escort would be ideal.

[king tarzan]

Stay at home with s box of tissues then and watch Beyonce and Shakira jiggle on TV..
Ever so safe😷😷😷

[CheeseBoard]

I got swollen balls and a burst scrotum after oral sex.
From an ignorant foreign girl who took a literal interpretation of blow job.

The sound my deflating dick made was quite funny though.

Buster Gonad springs to mind 

[Bonker]

Stay at home with s box of tissues then and watch Beyonce and Shakira jiggle on TV..
Ever so safe😷😷😷

I disagree.
Dislocated my elbow doing just that.

[Doc Holliday]

This is the sort of thread Tailseeker would have been commenting on. Shame she is lost to us now.

Doc , you are now the forum expert as I see it

Yes it is a shame. As I have posted before I am now retired and my expertise was cross infection control in general which developed into STIs as a personal interest during the period in my life when I was shagging at least three strangers a week.

TS's knowledge base was STI specific from a scientific/research background and also more current. She could answer the queries far better than me with regard to accuracy of testing procedures. That said I was very front line and as such have a good understanding of the practicalities and realities of cross infection. I also worked through the eighties which were scary times for health care professionals.

Whilst I do keep chipping in, I do believe punting forums (and indeed many public forums) are not the best places to have discussion threads because of the level of false input. I base that comment from 15 years of experience of such although UKP does seem somewhat obsessed with continually raising such topics?

[Doc Holliday]

So after all this debate. What is the definitive answer to soaps , anti bacs, Corsodyl etc. Me I take a wash bag when I go for a punt.

Hygiene is good practice and certainly makes sexual activity more pleasant but as a method of cross infection control for STIs is very much at the lower end of importance. Someone posted above that chlorhexidine is used to sterilise the skin but you cannot sterilise the skin you can merely decontaminate it to reduce the number of microbials to lower levels.

There aren't a great deal of studies on mouthwashes and STIs, although this has become of more interest due to the increasing rates of oropharyngeal gonnorhea in MSM. I recall reading there is another largish study currently underway to test an antimicrobial mouthwash in relation to this group.

Here is an 'easy read' about where we currently are with regard to mouthwashes External Link/Members Only

Note in particular that mouthwashes may be of use prior to sexual activity but there is no evidence regarding their use after activity. In my opinion post activity use is pointless.

[Strawberry]

Hygiene is good practice and certainly makes sexual activity more pleasant but as a method of cross infection control for STIs is very much at the lower end of importance. Someone posted above that chlorhexidine is used to sterilise the skin but you cannot sterilise the skin you can merely decontaminate it to reduce the number of microbials to lower levels.

There aren't a great deal of studies on mouthwashes and STIs, although this has become of more interest due to the increasing rates of oropharyngeal gonnorhea in MSM. I recall reading there is another largish study currently underway to test an antimicrobial mouthwash in relation to this group.

Here is an 'easy read' about where we currently are with regard to mouthwashes External Link/Members Only

Note in particular that mouthwashes may be of use prior to sexual activity but there is no evidence regarding their use after activity. In my opinion post activity use is pointless.

So this says use of mouthwash prior to sex may reduce transmission of an STI if you already have one, and this effect is null 60 minutes after the gargle?

[stewpid]

Thanks to all for the replies, particularly Doc Holliday who certainly sounds like an authority on the subject. 

Unlucky maybe, but you would need to take into account your sexual history within that 18 month period? If for example you had OWO on several hundred occasions during that period then luck and the random nature of STIs comes into it.

However if you only had say 20 exposures and two infections then you have either been excessively unlucky or you need to consider an individual susceptibility or host response to such exposures?

The only way you can be sure is to cover up.

I've had 31 punts in the last 18 months, with 20 different WGs and had OWO in all but one of those punts. Not sure on the odds there (crap at maths). Certainly feels unlucky but I did now consider a personal susceptibility when I became infected again. 

I'm a little surprised though, that someone who's treated for this isn't told what the actual infection was. For instance if it were chlamydia, this would be very worth knowing, not only just for one's own sake, but because it would be good to let other sexual partners know.

True. The GUM doc didn't really tell me what the cause actually was.

Stewpid, sorry to hear of your bad luck.  I have been punting coming up 6 years and in that time seen literally hundreds of SP's. I only book OWO providers.  I caught NSU once - through what I consider my own stupid fault (not washing afterwards). 

Now, on the advice of a doctor in a clap clinic and also I should say from experienced SP's I
1) always urinate immediately after sex (always includes OWO) and
2) wash my cock and under my foreskin thoroughly with neat liquid soap applied directly to the skin and soaped to a lather before rinsing with warm water (think of the way a surgeon washes their hands...)
3) never punt with any kind scrape, abrasion, spots or wounds on or near my cock and avoid SP's who are rough or refuse to use lubricant.   

Soap is a surfactant which means it will kill bugs.  It won't stop bugs that make their way into your urethra but thorough hygiene significantly reduces your chances of picking up infections.

Some good advice however because I always make sure I urinate prior to seeing a WG so I don't get interrupted by the urge to pee mid-sex I never feel like pissing directly afterwards.

It is taken seriously in terms of passing on to others, but any doubt into the exact causal bacteria within the parameters of the urine test, means the patient will be told it is non specific.

Assuming the OP was seen at an NHS clinic and an STI deemed the likely diagnosis they will have asked for cooperation with regard to partner notification.

I went through the barrage of tests, urine, blood taken and a swab in the jap's eye (always a fun time  ) and told them the last few sexual encounters were sex workers but they didn't ask me anything about contacting them, just told me I should do it myself.

I'm on the doxycycline tabs now but my symptoms weren't that severe this time. They came on a few days after my last session with a WG, had a couple of days of irritated cockend, some discharge and pee urgency and burning but then that all faded after a couple of days. Unfortunately I had to go away on business straight after that and couldn't get to my local GUM until about a week later.

Stay at home with s box of tissues then and watch Beyonce and Shakira jiggle on TV..
Ever so safe😷😷😷

Can't wait for your "king cobra" to get a dose, then you'll be on here screaming about bitches and whores like you do every time a WG wrongs you 

[king tarzan]

Thanks to all for the replies, particularly Doc Holliday who certainly sounds like an authority on the subject. 

I've had 31 punts in the last 18 months, with 20 different WGs and had OWO in all but one of those punts. Not sure on the odds there (crap at maths). Certainly feels unlucky but I did now consider a personal susceptibility when I became infected again. 

True. The GUM doc didn't really tell me what the cause actually was.

Some good advice however because I always make sure I urinate prior to seeing a WG so I don't get interrupted by the urge to pee mid-sex I never feel like pissing directly afterwards.

I went through the barrage of tests, urine, blood taken and a swab in the jap's eye (always a fun time  ) and told them the last few sexual encounters were sex workers but they didn't ask me anything about contacting them, just told me I should do it myself.

I'm on the doxycycline tabs now but my symptoms weren't that severe this time. They came on a few days after my last session with a WG, had a couple of days of irritated cockend, some discharge and pee urgency and burning but then that all faded after a couple of days. Unfortunately I had to go away on business straight after that and couldn't get to my local GUM until about a week later.

Can't wait for your "king cobra" to get a dose, then you'll be on here screaming about bitches and whores like you do every time a WG wrongs you 

Not happened to me in 20 years..
Hope it happens to you instead😃😃😃

[CalvinJWest]

Hi,

Second post in about 5 minutes.

Wanted to know what people’s thoughts were on OWO. I’m always so conscious of getting an STD that I’ve always gone for oral with a condom. I know it’s possible to get stuff just through oral but is the risk just as great as bareback? I suppose I’m including RO as well.

Thanks