Gavin Shuker MP wants sex buyer law

[Squire Haggard]

This cunt has raised this point at PMQs today. He wants to fuck up the whole country because of problems in his constituency. His own job matters more than the national interest. How about dealing with the local problem instead? He should fuck off.

''Paying for sex should be a criminal offence, says an MP who wants stronger action against prostitution.

Luton South MP Gavin Shuker has started an initiative to tackle sex trafficking and sexual exploitation called Luton Against Sexual Exploitation (LASE).

Men who pay for sex are fuelling a growing problem of sex trafficking, the Labour MP said.

He said a police initiative, begun in 2013, was viewed as a failure by many residents.

Residents of the High Town area claimed the situation had become worse during the existing five-year campaign, with prostitutes plying their trade at all times of the day.''

External Link/Members Only

[Jimmyredcab]

Residents of the High Town area claimed the situation had become worse during the existing five-year campaign, with prostitutes plying their trade at all times of the day.''

It is already illegal to pick up street girls, that applies on foot as well as in a car.   

[Markus]

People who pick up girls off the street or in a car probably still use a fax machine.

Paying for sex is a lot more civilised these days, well that is everywhere except Luton apparently.

[DastardlyDick]

Paying for sex is a lot more civilised these days, well that is everywhere except Luton apparently.

A few years ago, Luton did have a known kerb crawling area in Bury Park, a predominantly Asian area, some of the local Asian women (with the blessing of Luton Police) set up at one end of the main kerb crawling road and noted the Reg. Nos. of "suspicious" cars, passed them to the plod, who then wrote warning letters to the owners - it all came to an end when they found out it was mostly their male family members doing the kerb crawling!! Hilarious!

[badsin]

A few years ago, Luton did have a known kerb crawling area in Bury Park, a predominantly Asian area, some of the local Asian women (with the blessing of Luton Police) set up at one end of the main kerb crawling road and noted the Reg. Nos. of "suspicious" cars, passed them to the plod, who then wrote warning letters to the owners - it all came to an end when they found out it was mostly their male family members doing the kerb crawling!! Hilarious!

Couldn't make it up

[Itsnotshy]

When demanding this sex buyer law to combat trafficking they always conveniently fail to mention that it's already against the law to pay for sex from a trafficked woman.
Their real agenda is anti-sex, anti-promiscuity, anti-porn, anti-fun. And they are winning hands down, clever little puritanical buggers.
I expect that law to be in place sometime in 2020.
Have to find myself a new hobby then.

[DragonAgeInquisition]

I saw the this today - please see my recent post.

The US has already shut down similar sites (Backpage etc). I believe this could be a real issue with awork.

The Home office has initiated funding a study which concludes spring 2019, just round the corner. We shall see what happens.

This had been an issue in 2014 also.

All we can do is hope all goes well and hope the government takes into account views and study's from pro-prostitution groups and researchers etc.

[JayEZ2K]

When demanding this sex buyer law to combat trafficking they always conveniently fail to mention that it's already against the law to pay for sex from a trafficked woman.
Their real agenda is anti-sex, anti-promiscuity, anti-porn, anti-fun. And they are winning hands down, clever little puritanical buggers.
I expect that law to be in place sometime in 2020.
Have to find myself a new hobby then.

+1

Might as well shut down nail salons as they have been known to have trafficked workers and slaves.


Fuck that guy. I'm gonna lose my shit if I can't punt.

[JayEZ2K]

Is there a way to go against opposition, and to support pro-legalization of sex worker's rights? It's hard to support a movement, even harder given the need for anonymity in this case. But at the least, enemies and allies could be identified, so you know who to support and who to oppose.

External Link/Members Only

[Stevensmiles]

So many twats wanting to stop things cos they think it makes them look good. Missing the whole point altogether.

Let’s put a stop to Catholicism then and end paedophilia within its fucked up Vatican walls.

Ban drugs. Oh that’s right it is illegal. But does it stop the stuff being sold.
Close down all pubs because alcohol abuse costs the NHS hundreds of millions a year.

I’d be the first to help any authorities in putting an end to sex slavery and trafficking.
But for Christ’s sake. Passing a law to say it is a crime to pay for sex. Utter shit.

I’ve had girlfriends in the past I’ve paid a fortune for, drinks, meals, travel etc etc.
All to get my leg over.
Is that gonna be a crime too

[fairfield]

What kind of "sex" will be made illegal if this twat gets his way? A massage with HE? or will massages themselves be made illegal (what if you have an involuntary 'emission' during the session so to speak - off to clink with you?)
What about so-called "phone sex" - not indulged myself - but it seems pretty popular in some quarters. Will that be illegal too?

There's a reference on Google search about his unusual living arrangements - living with 4 housemates, one of which was his wife. It says they were all living together before he got married and he saw no reason to change afterwards. But you dont seem to be able to access the actual details.
I dont give a shit about the guy - but if he's on some hypocritcal crusade against my personal choices, i dont see why his own life choices should be hidden. Like why did his wife divorce him - cant women in general stand him? Reading between the lines he seems to be a hypocritical twat of the first order like 'saint' J Cox.

[philmagonad]

This government... 

First, solving the problem of immigration by going to the extremes of taking us out of the world's biggest trading market.

Now, trying to solve the problem of people trafficking by potentially criminalising an entire tranche of society – escorts and their punters.

If the government only applied this amount of energy to solving problems in the right way (i.e. focusing on illegal immigration and people trafficking, we'd all be much better off and we'd live in a fairer, more quitable society.

Instead we're becoming a society of self-serving, recalcitrant, xenephobic prudes.

[Itsnotshy]

Is there a way to go against opposition, and to support pro-legalization of sex worker's rights? It's hard to support a movement, even harder given the need for anonymity in this case. But at the least, enemies and allies could be identified, so you know who to support and who to oppose.

External Link/Members Only

I used to follow the sex work activists on twitter and get their 'likes' numbers up in the hope that politicians pay attention to the number of 'likes' on social media. Sounds ridiculous, is ridiculous.
Problem is pro-sex work feminists on social media are almost as annoying as anti-sex work feminists.
I gave up....I stopped following them......I saved my sanity......maybe.

[jeanphillipe]

The scholars of UK punting should convene and issue a Fatwa on this guy

[maxxblue]

This government... 

The MP referred to, Gavin Shuker, is a Labour MP, so not in this government 

First, solving the problem of immigration by going to the extremes of taking us out of the world's biggest trading market.

The government were acting on the results of a referendum, so not sure if you are trolling with this post, or if you are not too bright? 

[YouOnlyLiveOnce]

Gavin Shuker is an evangelical Christian who heads the "All Party Parliamentary Group on Prostitution and the Global Sex Trade", which has been trying to peddle the Nordic Model for years (it's bben criticised before for being a pressure group masquerading as a Parliamentary inquiry).

According to Brooke Magnanti ("Diary of a Call Girl" author), when the Home Office Select Committe got around to looking into this, they were initially sympathetic to the Nordic Model, but plenty of us eventually managed to get them to change their minds, at least provisionally:

The sex buyer law is a fundamentally different legislative approach to prostitution from that which is currently in place in England and Wales. It is based on the premise that prostitution is morally wrong and should therefore be illegal, whereas at present the law makes no such moral judgement. We acknowledge that the intention of many supporters of the sex buyer law is to protect sex workers, especially women, from the harm, violence and exploitation that can occur in the sex industry, but we also note that the sex buyer law makes no attempt to discriminate between prostitution which occurs between two consenting adults, and that which involves exploitation. Much of the rhetoric also denies sex workers the opportunity to speak for themselves and to make their own choices.

We are not yet convinced that the sex buyer law would be effective in reducing demand or in improving the lives of sex workers, either in terms of the living conditions for those who continue to work in prostitution or the effectiveness of services to help them find new ways to earn a living. Evaluations of the impact of sex buyer laws are largely based on data about street prostitution, and therefore offer little insight into the large parts of the sex industry which take place in various indoor environments, and there are indications that the law can be misused to harass and victimise sex workers, who are the very people whom the law is seeking to protect. We are not yet persuaded that the sex buyer law is effective in reducing, rather than simply displacing, demand for prostitution, or in helping the police to tackle the crime and exploitation associated with the sex industry.

From External Link/Members Only (in "Conclusions and recommendations)

But that was before the Keith Vaz scandal broke, which somewhat dented the Committee's credibility.  Meanwhile Shuker keeps on campaigning.

[TailSeeker]

It's bloody stupid, especially considering several MPs use sex workers. But then the conservatives have always been that way, can't forget them wanting to keep homosexuality illegal despite several of them copping it off with young men.

Making it illegal on either side just makes it more dangerous for WGs, it's not going to stop trafficking at all, just drive it underground again.

[paper7]

It's bloody stupid, especially considering several MPs use sex workers. But then the conservatives have always been that way, can't forget them wanting to keep homosexuality illegal despite several of them copping it off with young men.

Making it illegal on either side just makes it more dangerous for WGs, it's not going to stop trafficking at all, just drive it underground again.

And once driven underground 'safety' goes out the window.

[webpunter]

Several might be an understating things

It's bloody stupid, especially considering several MPs use sex workers. But then the conservatives have always been that way, can't forget them wanting to keep homosexuality illegal despite several of them copping it off with young men.

Making it illegal on either side just makes it more dangerous for WGs, it's not going to stop trafficking at all, just drive it underground again.

IMO Shuker looks suspect
Like he bats for the other side & bottom rather than top

I can't see the demise of the oldest profession anytime soon

[Simmo87]

Gavin Shuker MP for Luton, considering Luton is a petri dish for the breeding of UK born terrorists I think he should be concentrating his efforts on stopping the people that blow people up and not stopping the consenting adults the blow off other consenting adults. Along with that luton has had several grooming gang arrests, so in hes the MP of a town with organised terrorism and organised paedophile gangs yet spend his time campaining about what consenting adults do in private.

Typical bible thumping nobhead 

[shagmore]

What they should do is makes work legal, bring it in line with places like Holland. That way its a win, win, win
Win for the punter
Win for WG, as more control and monitoring
Won for the government as the will get more income from tax
Why cant people look at the bigger picture, and help the whole economy, not just things that try to make them look good.
Trafficking is bad, but if prostitution was made legal, then this would surely help this situation as more checks in place.
If its made illegal, it will just drive it underground, and make matters even worse
THINK OUT THE BOX YOU STUPID FUCKER

[Itsnotshy]

And once driven underground 'safety' goes out the window.

I suspect most and the worst examples of trafficking, sex slavery, coercion, whatever else people like to call it, are already underground. In certain communities, spread by word of mouth, by the kind of people we wouldn't go anywhere near. That's where the police should be concentrating. Bloody hard work ferreting those buggers out though.

[Autopunter]

Gavin Shuker is an evangelical Christian who heads the "All Party Parliamentary Group on Prostitution and the Global Sex Trade", which has been trying to peddle the Nordic Model for years (it's bben criticised before for being a pressure group masquerading as a Parliamentary inquiry).

According to Brooke Magnanti ("Diary of a Call Girl" author), when the Home Office Select Committe got around to looking into this, they were initially sympathetic to the Nordic Model, but plenty of us eventually managed to get them to change their minds, at least provisionally:
From External Link/Members Only (in "Conclusions and recommendations)

But that was before the Keith Vaz scandal broke, which somewhat dented the Committee's credibility.  Meanwhile Shuker keeps on campaigning.

The problem with this country is we never got around to putting all the loopy fundies and feminzais (the ones who can't mind their own ****ing business and stop trying to micromanage everyone else's lives) on a ship with no engine, towing it out into the Atlantic and scuttling the damn thing. Reckon that would solve the whole prostitution debate quite quickly frankly. Scratch an aboloitionist, male or female, and you'll likely find a deeply damaged human being with an insatiable appetite for power and control. The way they pretend that sex for money would just vanish (and the number of trafficked victims wouldn't explode if they made it more lucrative by banning prostitution) if they made paying for sex illegal flies in the face of centuries of failure to stop gambling, prostitution, drugs and other victim-free "crimes".

Take porn for example; today it is a legal industry in the US, but back in the 70s the mob controlled it; same with gambling (remember the movie Casino?), and the same with the sex industry everywhere it isn't taxed, regulated and transparent. It isn't like legal sex industries are perfect, just like the drink, tobacco, porn or gambling industries aren't. But it is a lot easier to see and tackle problems when dealing with corporate suits than a bunch of perpetually-regenerating gangsters. Why is this childishly simple fact so hard for the fundies to absorb? Because for them it doesn't matter--they aren't retarded (although their arguements make it seem like they are), but they are fanatical, and to the fanatic human suffering is a small price to pay in the march to whatever Utopia is going to save humankind next. Even if I wasn't a punter I would oppose a Christian using the legal system to impose their morality on other people; live your own life how you like, but keep your ideaological shite to yourself...

[Squire Haggard]

I saw the this today - please see my recent post.

The US has already shut down similar sites (Backpage etc). I believe this could be a real issue with awork.

The Home office has initiated funding a study which concludes spring 2019, just round the corner. We shall see what happens.

This had been an issue in 2014 also.

All we can do is hope all goes well and hope the government takes into account views and study's from pro-prostitution groups and researchers etc.

I started this in Off Topic, but its been moved here. Its probably best, because Gavin Shuker might see the thread title when he searches for his name, and read what people in the real world think.

I've already contributed to the above study. If anyone else wants to do the same, they might still be wanting contributions. I dont know when the deadline is.

[Squire Haggard]

Share your experiences and ideas before 31st December.

''Please note that we are now analysing the data collected through this survey up to 16 July 2018 (the initial deadline), so that we can inform and proceed with the project.  However, we are leaving open this survey for you to continue to share your experiences and ideas until 31 December 2018.  We will check these subsequent responses regularly.  Thank you.

The University of Bristol has been commissioned by the Home Office and the Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner for South Wales to investigate (a) the nature and (b) the prevalence of prostitution and sex work in England and Wales.

In summary, we have been asked to describe what is going on, and in what numbers.  It is important to underline that we have not been asked to recommend what ought to be going on, i.e. we have not been asked to make recommendations on law and policy.  However, clearly our findings could be used by future governments to shape policy.

This project has been granted permission by a University of Bristol Research Ethics Committee, and is led by Professor Marianne Hester OBE.

We are seeking input from people currently or formerly involved in prostitution and sex work, academics, NGOs/charities, criminal justice and health practitioners, police and others.''

External Link/Members Only

[S.X. MacHine]

It's bloody stupid, especially considering several MPs use sex workers. But then the conservatives have always been that way, can't forget them wanting to keep homosexuality illegal despite several of them copping it off with young men.

Making it illegal on either side just makes it more dangerous for WGs, it's not going to stop trafficking at all, just drive it underground again.

Yes, it makes it more dangerous for WGs.
Up in Scotland, the dull bigot, Rhoda Grant, Member of Scottish Parliament, is on record saying that the death of a few prostitutes is 'a price worth paying' if it means a reduction in sex work. Words fail me.

[satyromaniac]

We all pay for sex one way or another. Men and women.
Just it’s not directly paid for with cash in all cases.

I bet there are lots of mp’s, governing officials, police officers, high court judges etc
that use sex workers.
Too many toes would be stood on for it to be made illegal.
Also even if it was made illegal, how would it be policed? Uk police are a joke.
More concerned with offensive comments on the internet then actual crimes being committed.

[kingmg]

They should expose any MP caught punting.

[Imalanpartridge]

When demanding this sex buyer law to combat trafficking they always conveniently fail to mention that it's already against the law to pay for sex from a trafficked woman.
Their real agenda is anti-sex, anti-promiscuity, anti-porn, anti-fun. And they are winning hands down, clever little puritanical buggers.
I expect that law to be in place sometime in 2020.
Have to find myself a new hobby then.

It's going to go the other way if anything.  Legalised prostitution is far safer than letting girls be street walkers.  That's why all the brass houses get left alone. 

[Itsnotshy]

It's going to go the other way if anything.  Legalised prostitution is far safer than letting girls be street walkers.  That's why all the brass houses get left alone.

Hope you're right, after all we want decrim. the sex workers want decrim. the only people who want it illegal are people who are not involved in sex work.
Either way we should know by this time next year.

[JayEZ2K]

Hope you're right, after all we want decrim. the sex workers want decrim. the only people who want it illegal are people who are not involved in sex work.
Either way we should know by this time next year.

I feel like we're supposed to sit idly by while the aristocrats make decisions for us. Is this how it works?

At the very least are these discussions/debates held in public so we can see what their arguments are, and which politicians we should support and which politicians we should oppose?

Are there a few forum experts who can lead us on this?

[TailSeeker]

Yes, it makes it more dangerous for WGs.
Up in Scotland, the dull bigot, Rhoda Grant, Member of Scottish Parliament, is on record saying that the death of a few prostitutes is 'a price worth paying' if it means a reduction in sex work. Words fail me.

Bloody hell! Piece of fucking work. And idiotic as all fuck, people dying isn't going to reduce it. Just increases the risk on both sides.

[Itsnotshy]

I feel like we're supposed to sit idly by while the aristocrats make decisions for us. Is this how it works?

At the very least are these discussions/debates held in public so we can see what their arguments are, and which politicians we should support and which politicians we should oppose?

Are there a few forum experts who can lead us on this?

I think, apart from Shuker, this is largely driven by Labour radical feminists, Jess Phillips is hot to trot for a sex buyer law, as is Sarah Champion in a slightly watered down version. Corbyn now favours the Swedish way of sex policing.
Most MPs will find somewhere else to be when the debate and vote happens. Only a punter opposes an anti-punter law, most politicians won't risk the potential damage to their public image.
But when it comes to idly sitting by while decisions are made about us........yep that's pretty much it......unless we want to organise a march for our rights. Anything we do by way of letters etc will make no difference as they made their minds up years ago.
Just note who votes for it and come the next election take your revenge at the ballot box.

[Itsnotshy]

Bloody hell! Piece of fucking work. And idiotic as all fuck, people dying isn't going to reduce it. Just increases the risk on both sides.

Rad fems. do not like sex workers, Andrea Dworkin regarded you as collaborators in the patriarchy who would have to be dealt with accordingly. Hope I remembered that right, but could've been Julie Bindell, would check it on Wiki. but lazy as all hell and I have a date on Pornhub.
It was one of them anyway, struck me at the time as not very nice.

[JayEZ2K]

I think, apart from Shuker, this is largely driven by Labour radical feminists, Jess Phillips is hot to trot for a sex buyer law, as is Sarah Champion... 

People Against Sex Workers' Rights
Gavin Shuker MP
Jeremy Corbyn now favours the Swedish way of sex policing.

Labour radical feminists
Jess Phillips is hot to trot for a sex buyer law
Sarah Champion...  in a slightly watered down version.
Andrea Dworkin
Julie Bindel: External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only

[webpunter]

The feminazis have it in their brain that women are exploited by the sex industry
I agree that sexploitation should be clamped down on
However they find it hard to understand that some women choose to do this - for lots of different reasons

And what they find really really hard to accept is that women's power is reduced
The powergame threat of witholding sex doesn't have the same impact
After a while blokes often think TFFT
Especially when having discovered punting

IMO its not so much that women don't "put out" but even when they do then its generally pretty crap
Well after the 1st year or two of being with said burd
Some much earlier
I started thinking  & then figured 

[Squire Haggard]

It looks like its part of Labour's DNA. As usual, they dont care what WGs want, which is nobody being criminalised.

''Scottish Labour has announced it wants to make paying for sex illegal but stop prosecuting prostitutes ahead of the Scottish Parliament elections.

The party said a new approach was needed to fight commercial sexual exploitation with currently only the victims facing punishment.

In its election manifesto, published on 27 April, the party will say: "Scottish Labour aims to tackle commercial sexual exploitation by challenging demand and by supporting those involved.''

External Link/Members Only

[Squire Haggard]

Rad fems. do not like sex workers, Andrea Dworkin regarded you as collaborators in the patriarchy who would have to be dealt with accordingly. Hope I remembered that right, but could've been Julie Bindell, would check it on Wiki. but lazy as all hell and I have a date on Pornhub.
It was one of them anyway, struck me at the time as not very nice.

Rhoda does not think that you should be viewing Pornhub.

''Grant thinks that there is a significant connection between pornography and the sex industry and "abuse and violence against women". "We have to ask if more should be done to make the viewing or downloading of porn from the internet more difficult. I think there should be filters in place to help that process.''

External Link/Members Only

[Itsnotshy]

Rhoda does not think that you should be viewing Pornhub.

Which is why I have nearly 4 TB of porn on flash drives. Won't miss the porn sites too much.
Would miss the girls like hell though, don't know how I'd cope without 'em in my old age. I'm grumpy now, God knows what I'd be like. Reckon they'd miss my money too. As the SJWs are fond of saying 'it's not fair'.

[Autopunter]

Rhoda does not think that you should be viewing Pornhub.

''Grant thinks that there is a significant connection between pornography and the sex industry and "abuse and violence against women". "We have to ask if more should be done to make the viewing or downloading of porn from the internet more difficult. I think there should be filters in place to help that process.''

External Link/Members Only

Never have I been so glad to not live in Scotland anymore, if she gets in. Also, it always amuses me how alike the feminazis and the religious fundamentalists sound. With a few more God references, those words could have come out of any puritan or Islamist's mouth. They all have completely different idealogies of course, but all three take a rigid, moralistic and divisive minority view of the world, and set out to impose it on everyone else. Sad people really.