2022 Highway Code updates

[Blackpool Rock]

Read about a change today, about priority at roundabouts, like who will have the right of way

Normally when entering at roundabout, every motorist should give way to traffic, passing on the right

So the way I have read and other cyclists, the amendments, now means the motorist already on the roundabout should slow down, and give way to the cyclist

It confusing at most, but hope when the new highway code amendments get released next week, its better worded

Obviously it depends on the size of the roundabout as a large one is vastly different from a mini roundabout but prior to giving way to the right you are already required to give way to traffic already on the roundabout.

These new rules look to be specifically in regard to what you should do with a cyclist so i'll wait and see what it says but like you say the wording needs to be better.
Personally i'd already give a bike space etc as I don't want to knock anyone off and as a cyclist myself when faced with a large roundabout and turning right I tend to pull over on the approach, unless the traffic is very low volume then I often walk the bike round on the pavement as it's just too dangerous to cycle round.

[mr.bluesky]

Cambridge! sometimes called Cycle City 'cos of the number of students on bikes..

Local Bus Driver to student: Oi! what are you reading then?.

"Classics" from student to bus driver..

Bus driver: Well try reading the fucking highway code first!!!

  I think most people could do with reading the highway code again . Let's be honest the last time I read it and I'm  sure it's the same most people is just before you take your driving test and in my case that was over 35 years ago.

[RedKettle]

  I think most people could do with reading the highway code again . Let's be honest the last time I read it and I'm  sure it's the same most people is just before you take your driving test and in my case that was over 35 years ago.

Or when your child takes their test and you think, bloody hell I never knew that.

[petermisc]

Is the rule about giving way to pedestrians when turning, only bringing us into line with Continental practice?  Is some (at least) Continental countries, even if the traffic lights are green, you are required to give way to pedestrians crossing the side street.  Saves having to provide "green men" signals (both cost, and the delay they incur).

[Marmalade]

We all know that since going to VietNam, the Rt Honourable Boglord of Farmland Jeremy Clarkson has become 'very politically correct' ... yet he is still known for his famous jokes such as the one involving lorry drivers and prostitutes.

Here's a External Link/Members Only (really) that goes in place next week apparently, which will enable murderous drivers to get rid of cyclists even easier (by opening a door as they pass them).

Unfortunately, when it comes to nuisance pedestrians, drivers will have to protest that they were unaware of the new law after running them over at junctions.

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What do you think?

[Marmalade]

p.s. for anyone who missed it, here's the clip explaining what a hard life lorry drivers have: External Link/Members Only .

But while on the subject... Personally, I don't begrudge cyclists and pedestrians a bit of road in London (I live elsewhere): but what does annoy me is bloody caravan trailers on the small roads through the Lowlands (this is the bit between England and the more educated parts of Scotland).
It's a nice drive, nice scenery, the sheep stay off the road. But one fucking caravan means the drive takes twice as long and blocks such nice uplifting pastoral sights. Why can't they just hire the damn monstrosity at a fixed location when they intend to use the thing, instead of dragging it around to screw up everybody else's day??

[myothernameis]

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What do you think?

As a cyclist, the rule about positioning your self in the middle of the road, agree 100%.  As today was in cycle lane, and approaching a road junction, with traffic lights

Im going straight on, but there was a car turning left, and the driver never saw me    .  So as I cross the junction, he turns, and Im pushed to turn left

Unfortunate today, I didn't have my cycle camera, but if I did, no doubt I would be reporting this driver.  Driver got out of his car, and would say in his 70's, and shouting at me to look where Im going, obliviously he dosnt know the highway code that well

His wife comes out of the car, to try to calm him down, which gave me a chance to tell them, I had right of way, as I was going straight on.  Finally he understood he was in the wrong, so we left each other with no malice

So from this, as I approach traffic lights, and in a cycle lane, I think I might now change my behavior, and sit in the middle of the road, for my safety

[Thecunninglinguist]

One problem is the usual one of lack of definition when policy is made, largely on the hoof, without thinking it through. The advice is to give way to pedestrians "at a junction". Where is "at a junction". Exactly on the junction, within a metre, 5 metres, 10 metres? We know people stretch every rule and people will be walking out somewhere near a junction and swear the are in the right and it will take court cases to sort out. Likewise with cyclists who are advised to ride in the centre of the road "In certain circumstances". To some this will give carte blanche to ride at whatever speed they like in the centre of the lane at any time. They should be reminded there is still the offence of Riding without due care and attention and Riding without reasonable consideration for other road users. For me as a motorist, a fully working dashcam is essential.

[daviemac]

I seem to remember the old rule for pedestrians used to be ' If you have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road, you have priority and they should give way' it always seemed fairly obvious to me, if I was turning into a road and there was a pedestrian already crossing then it was my responsibility not to run them over. Now it seems pedestrians have carte blanche to jump out in front of you.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Yes well as long as Cyclists read the highway code too whch i rather doubt..

One bit they seem to forget here in Cycle City (Cambridge) is to;


PUT SOME FUCKING LIGHTS  ON YOUR BIKE AT NIGHT!!!

 

[Marmalade]

PUT SOME FUCKING LIGHTS  ON YOUR BIKE AT NIGHT!!!

And a clitter-clatter noise, something to warn it's coming. Same as electric cars.
And how about a registration plate so we can sue the fuckers as they mow down children and old people.

[Blackpool Rock]

Yes well as long as Cyclists read the highway code too whch i rather doubt..

One bit they seem to forget here in Cycle City (Cambridge) is to;


PUT SOME FUCKING LIGHTS  ON YOUR BIKE AT NIGHT!!!

Not just Cambridge mate, i've lost count how many bellends I see on bikes in the morning in Blackpool with no lights and not only that they all appear to be wearing dark clothes too 
Half are also on their phone while cycling and riding without holding the handlebars 

[mr.bluesky]

p.s. for anyone who missed it, here's the clip explaining what a hard life lorry drivers have: External Link/Members Only .

But while on the subject... Personally, I don't begrudge cyclists and pedestrians a bit of road in London (I live elsewhere): but what does annoy me is bloody caravan trailers on the small roads through the Lowlands (this is the bit between England and the more educated parts of Scotland).
It's a nice drive, nice scenery, the sheep stay off the road. But one fucking caravan means the drive takes twice as long and blocks such nice uplifting pastoral sights. Why can't they just hire the damn monstrosity at a fixed location when they intend to use the thing, instead of dragging it around to screw up everybody else's day??

Aaah yes, bloody caravans clogging up the country side, add to the list the yokel and their bloody horse boxes and bloody tractors 🚜.  Sometimes you get stuck behind a tractor and think he must be turning off soon into a field but you get stuck behind them for ages as his farm must be in the next county 

[mr.bluesky]

Not just Cambridge mate, i've lost count how many bellends I see on bikes in the morning in Blackpool with no lights and not only that they all appear to be wearing dark clothes too 
Half are also on their phone while cycling and riding without holding the handlebars 

Not forgetting the ones who have no lights, dark clothes, and wearing headphones so they are not aware of what's going on around them.

[lillythesavage]

I seem to remember the old rule for pedestrians used to be ' If you have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road, you have priority and they should give way' it always seemed fairly obvious to me, if I was turning into a road and there was a pedestrian already crossing then it was my responsibility not to run them over. Now it seems pedestrians have carte blanche to jump out in front of you.

Common sense dictated that rule, even if it is unwritten, and if they are halfway across it is only seconds of a delay.

Heard a good point on the radio today, does the carte blanch apply to dual carriage crossing points? 70 mph plus traffic suddenly stopping because a pedestrian decided they have right of way is a recipe for disaster. 

[daviemac]

Common sense dictated that rule, even if it is unwritten, and if they are halfway across it is only seconds of a delay.

It was written, it was in rule #170 but they had to be actually on the road to have the right of way.


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[Gordon Bennett]

Its been in the TV news today I see. At least its getting a bit of publicity now. These changes ought to be backed up by an educational publicity campaign or swathes of motorists will be unprepared for pedestrians striding out into the road at junctions from Saturday.

[Sha99er]

Just came across this on one of my mountain biking groups on FB, it's a bit nuts TBH.

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[Marmalade]

Just came across this on one of my mountain biking groups on FB, it's a bit nuts TBH.

If I were a non-English speaker I then:

Cars may only be driven on roads where there are cyclists to help monitor speed, and cycles have right of way.

Roads are for cyclists: remember, car-users are secondary.

And they've missed off a bit:

Cyclists have priority over cars;
pedestrians have priority over anything else that moves (other than pigeons).

To 'save the planet:
car users shall convert to electric or hydrogen wherever possible, and car-share with the great unwashed heroes of our great idle nation;
car users shall pay for cyclists' & pedestrians' recreation areas (called "roads") by means of a "road tax".

[lillythesavage]

Just came across this on one of my mountain biking groups on FB, it's a bit nuts TBH.

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The bit about not obliged to use cycle lanes is nuts, why build the bloody things

[myothernameis]

The bit about not obliged to use cycle lanes is nuts, why build the bloody things

When I'm out cycling, and there a cycle lane, I always use the cycle lane, as I always feel a lot safer.  If using the road, and cars behind me, the cars always in a rush, which means I peddle faster, so cycle lane allows me to take my time

But there sometimes, you cant use  the cycle lane, as there are cars parked in the cycle lane, but according to the highway code, your not suppose to do this

[daviemac]

The bit about not obliged to use cycle lanes is nuts, why build the bloody things

They never have been obliged to use the cycle lane, but you would think some form of self preservation would kick in and they would use them to keep out of the way of traffic, not the case though.

There's a narrow twisty road near me with a 60 mph speed limit, cyclists still ride on the road when there's a clearly marker cycle path along side.

Mind it is marked for pedestrian as well but where the road is it's well over 2 miles before you come to anywhere that you would want to be at so I've yet to see anyone walking on it.

[RedKettle]

They never have been obliged to use the cycle lane, but you would think some form of self preservation would kick in and they would use them to keep out of the way of traffic, not the case though.

There's a narrow twisty road near me with a 60 mph speed limit, cyclists still ride on the road when there's a clearly marker cycle path along side.

Mind it is marked for pedestrian as well but where the road is it's well over 2 miles before you come to anywhere that you would want to be at so I've yet to see anyone walking on it.

We should be mindful that there are cycle lanes and there are cycle lanes!!!  I agree that where there is a clearly marked, continuous lane and especially if it is separated in some way from the road then you are mad not to use it.  Many however are not like that, they appear for sometimes literally 10 metres or so and then disappear and are never more than some faint paint lines.  Others take you away from the road and then simply disappear.  All clearly just done so some public body meets a target somewhere.  They are utterly frustrating to use and often put you in more danger as you navigate in and out of them.

You mention one that is shared with pedestrians and they are particular tricky to use as a cyclists - I have been yelled at by a lady who clearly did not realise it was also a cycle lane, to be clear I did not go near her and I was moving quite slowly. 

Ironically on the same ride a motorist blasted his car horn at me simply because I existed - I was minding my own business quite close to the kerb but because of other traffic he could not get past quickly enough.

[lillythesavage]

They never have been obliged to use the cycle lane, but you would think some form of self preservation would kick in and they would use them to keep out of the way of traffic, not the case though.

There's a narrow twisty road near me with a 60 mph speed limit, cyclists still ride on the road when there's a clearly marker cycle path along side.

Mind it is marked for pedestrian as well but where the road is it's well over 2 miles before you come to anywhere that you would want to be at so I've yet to see anyone walking on it.

I mentioned it before, driving a 32 tonner into town, slow moving 3 lanes of heavy traffic, big wide bright blue cycle lane the other side of kerb stones, and there was billy boy bouncing in and out of the drains, passing traffic on the nearside lane, deep regular spaced drains too, until he fell off hitting one, on to the cycle lane luckily for him.

Another time, no cycle lane, slow moving 2 lane one way part of The Caledonian Road, saw in the mirrors billy boy weaving at speed in and out of traffic for no reason, dived inside behind my loaded tipper, never saw him go past, stopped, got out and there he was about to go under two differentials with the bike wrapped around his legs.
Got him out and explained his lunacy, he said he had tried to go in front of me, but hit a step on the van in front, no injuries, but with the bike wrapped around him, he was not clearing those rear axles unscathed. He was very very lucky to miss the front two cross members or the wheels.

Why you would chose not to use a cycle lane, or want to be anywhere near a moving truck is beyond me, just for your own safety, as you say.

[daviemac]

We should be mindful that there are cycle lanes and there are cycle lanes!!!  I agree that where there is a clearly marked, continuous lane and especially if it is separated in some way from the road then you are mad not to use it.  Many however are not like that, they appear for sometimes literally 10 metres or so and then disappear and are never more than some faint paint lines.  Others take you away from the road and then simply disappear.  All clearly just done so some public body meets a target somewhere.  They are utterly frustrating to use and often put you in more danger as you navigate in and out of them.

You mention one that is shared with pedestrians and they are particular tricky to use as a cyclists - I have been yelled at by a lady who clearly did not realise it was also a cycle lane, to be clear I did not go near her and I was moving quite slowly. 

Ironically on the same ride a motorist blasted his car horn at me simply because I existed - I was minding my own business quite close to the kerb but because of other traffic he could not get past quickly enough.

Here's a couple of examples of the sort of cycle paths I mean.

The first one is the narrow road I mentioned and that goes on until past the narrow section, yet as you can see there's a cyclist riding along side of it.  The other two go for miles but the only cyclists who use them are, for want of a better way of putting it, the bloke in his flat cap and wellies on his way to work. The Lycra clad brigade ride on the road. 


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[myothernameis]

You mention one that is shared with pedestrians and they are particular tricky to use as a cyclists - I have been yelled at by a lady who clearly did not realise it was also a cycle lane, to be clear I did not go near her and I was moving quite slowly.

Same in Glasgow, and part of the national cycle route, no 7, and at one point there are no signs to indicate this is a shard cycle path.  The problem here lies with the council, who did same work a few years back, new lights, and pavement retard, but didn't replace the share cycle lane signs

So as I climb hill just before the riverside museum, its quite common to be shouted at, your not allowed to cycle on the pavement  .  I have stopped to talk to the person, telling them, this is a shared path, only for them, to ask where are the signs.   My self and other cyclists have been stopped by the police, and telling we cant cycle on the pavement, and end up explaining this pavement is part of the NCR-7   

[Blackpool Rock]

Here's a couple of examples of the sort of cycle paths I mean.

The first one is the narrow road I mentioned and that goes on until past the narrow section, yet as you can see there's a cyclist riding along side of it.  The other two go for miles but the only cyclists who use them are, for want of a better way of putting it, the bloke in his flat cap and wellies on his way to work. The Lycra clad brigade ride on the road. 


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That 1st one looks like a "pavement" but i'll accept your local knowledge that it's also OK for cyclists to use and personally i'd probably be using it even if it wasn't a designated cycle lane.
What I would say is that the surface doesn't look too good which is probably why the "Lycra lads" don't use it as it will slow them down, i've seen cycle lanes which are frankly dangerous due to pot holes and drain covers etc to the point I haven't used them but I will always use them if they are viable.
I've only got a normal bike but you wouldn't believe the snobbery between cyclists when out on the road.
Me and my mates normally acknowledge all other cyclists and the Joe nobodies normally acknowledge you back but the lycra guys ignore you if you are wearing shorts and a T shirt.
One of the guys we go out with does occasionally wear lycra and says he does get acknowledged if he's wearing it but not if he's not 
Oh and then there are the lycra Uber wankers who won't acknowledge you even if you are wearing lycra if it got the wrong team logo on it 

As for the 2nd two i'd be over the moon to find a cycle path like those which went on for miles

Regardless of these recent law changes i'm sticking to my current rules of self preservation and assuming everyone else is a poor driver that hasn't seen me when out walking and cycling

[lamboman]

Here's a couple of examples of the sort of cycle paths I mean.

The first one is the narrow road I mentioned and that goes on until past the narrow section, yet as you can see there's a cyclist riding along side of it.  The other two go for miles but the only cyclists who use them are, for want of a better way of putting it, the bloke in his flat cap and wellies on his way to work. The Lycra clad brigade ride on the road. 


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Simple reason for that is your typical cycle path is not suitable for lycra clad brigades.
Fine if you're nodding along at 10mph not very good if you're averaging 20-25mph,you also tend to get a puncture every mile because all the road detritus is pushed onto them.

[Blackpool Rock]

Simple reason for that is your typical cycle path is not suitable for lycra clad brigades.
Fine if you're nodding along at 10mph not very good if you're averaging 25mph,you also tend to get a puncture every mile because all the road detritus is pushed onto them.

Yes I was also going to mention that all the shit / debris ends up in the cycle lane giving you punctures, same reason why I don't drive over the "Hatched" areas in my car

[Gordon Bennett]

If I were a non-English speaker I then:

Cars may only be driven on roads where there are cyclists to help monitor speed, and cycles have right of way.

Roads are for cyclists: remember, car-users are secondary.

And they've missed off a bit:

Cyclists have priority over cars;
pedestrians have priority over anything else that moves (other than pigeons).

To 'save the planet:
car users shall convert to electric or hydrogen wherever possible, and car-share with the great unwashed heroes of our great idle nation;
car users shall pay for cyclists' & pedestrians' recreation areas (called "roads") by means of a "road tax".

There is no mention of "Right of Way" anywhere in the Highway Code, never has been. Right of Way only relates to private land - has nothing to do with public highway.

Anytime a motorist or cyclist says something like "I had Right of Way at turning/junction/whatever it identifies them as a tit.

[daviemac]

That 1st one looks like a "pavement" but i'll accept your local knowledge that it's also OK for cyclists to use and personally i'd probably be using it even if it wasn't a designated cycle lane.

This is the forth sign in less than half a mile the cyclist is coming up to and the only one that's turned like that. Plus you can see the traffic built up behind him.

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I understand about punctures but there's very little debris on any of those cycle paths and they are national speed limit roads, not 30 mph built up areas.

[lamboman]

There is no mention of "Right of Way" anywhere in the Highway Code, never has been. Right of Way only relates to private land - has nothing to do with public highway.

Anytime a motorist or cyclist says something like "I had Right of Way at turning/junction/whatever it identifies them as a tit.

Semantics.

[myothernameis]

There is no mention of "Right of Way" anywhere in the Highway Code, never has been. Right of Way only relates to private land - has nothing to do with public highway.

Highway code says it priority is to be given to set rules

Like cyclist and a motorist approaching road junction, cyclist going straight on, but motorist turning left.  Priority is to be given to the cyclist going straight on, and the motorist should be using his mirrors before turning left

[Sha99er]

Just came across this on one of my mountain biking groups on FB, it's a bit nuts TBH.

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When I posted this this morning I thought it a bit too daft to be true so kind of took it with a pinch of salt, but apparently its genuine enough from what I can see.

Good luck to any cyclists that decides to sneak up the inside of a lorry turning left....

[lillythesavage]

When I posted this this morning I thought it a bit too daft to be true so kind of took it with a pinch of salt, but apparently its genuine enough from what I can see.

Good luck to any cyclists that decides to sneak up the inside of a lorry turning left....

Sneaking up, I once had one scoot one footed along the kerb and lean on the passenger door, while indicating left with a loud speaker shouting " this vehicle is turning left"

No he was not deaf, I walked round to confront him, but he was too old to punch and old enough to know better, this is just going to make them feel invincible, because a piece of paper says they are.

Why oh why can they not have respect for their own life and use common sense, I cycle at times, but would go nowhere near the wheels of a truck, or bus, too many blind spots and  they are going to hurt badly if things go wrong.

[daviemac]

When I posted this this morning I thought it a bit too daft to be true so kind of took it with a pinch of salt, but apparently its genuine enough from what I can see.

Good luck to any cyclists that decides to sneak up the inside of a lorry turning left....

Trucks these days have to have more mirrors as a 1960's mod's scooter but there's still blind spots.

[myothernameis]

When I posted this this morning I thought it a bit too daft to be true so kind of took it with a pinch of salt, but apparently its genuine enough from what I can see.

Good luck to any cyclists that decides to sneak up the inside of a lorry turning left....

I just wonder when the highway code update on Sat, there will be something about cyclist and the dangers of big lorries.  Highway code 221 - 223, kind of covers this, but needs to be updated.

I would believe, the highway code in this situation, should read as follows.  In the event the cyclist is approaching a road junction, with traffic lights.  At the junction is a hgv, and because of this, the cyclist should hold back, and stay behind the lorry.

Its very likely the hgv driver wont be able to see you in his left mirror

[lillythesavage]

Trucks these days have to have more mirrors as a 1960's mod's scooter but there's still blind spots.

Yep, and we had sensors and cameras both sides and rear working in Central London, as more cyclists appeared the more things were added, the left turn speakers were ignored regularly, no matter how close you were to the kerb when turning left, they would try and squeeze up, leaning over scooting one foot along the pavement.
Not knowing when the lights would change and the truck may move. 

You can only look in one place at a time, one or two mirrors on the same side together, or at a screen, that split second you were looking  the other way some hero would dive into a small space, they even would hang on to the rear corner going up hills, it became just too much hassle and stress, 20 years ago there were no such problems in London. Everyone kept safe, there were lots of cyclists, not the numbers that appeared, and not the angry, get there at any cost types that appeared, it was like they were doing it, but not wanting to and dare you get in the way

My truck was involved in 2 deaths, with the grace of god not while I was driving it, after the second it was never put back on the road, no one wanted to drive it so it was broken for spares.

Remember just about everything you buy has been on a truck, they cost a fortune to run, and no driver goes to work looking to hit cyclists, just doing his job, keep away from the bloody things if you are cycling, one little mistake, on your part, the driver or a truck malfunction, a tyre blow out could kill you, the cyclist will be the one getting hurt or dying.

[RedKettle]

Yep, and we had sensors and cameras both sides and rear working in Central London, as more cyclists appeared the more things were added, the left turn speakers were ignored regularly, no matter how close you were to the kerb when turning left, they would try and squeeze up, leaning over scooting one foot along the pavement.
Not knowing when the lights would change and the truck may move. 

You can only look in one place at a time, one or two mirrors on the same side together, or at a screen, that split second you were looking  the other way some hero would dive into a small space, they even would hang on to the rear corner going up hills, it became just too much hassle and stress, 20 years ago there were no such problems in London. Everyone kept safe, there were lots of cyclists, not the numbers that appeared, and not the angry, get there at any cost types that appeared, it was like they were doing it, but not wanting to and dare you get in the way

My truck was involved in 2 deaths, with the grace of god not while I was driving it, after the second it was never put back on the road, no one wanted to drive it so it was broken for spares.

Remember just about everything you buy has been on a truck, they cost a fortune to run, and no driver goes to work looking to hit cyclists, just doing his job, keep away from the bloody things if you are cycling, one little mistake, on your part, the driver or a truck malfunction, a tyre blow out could kill you, the cyclist will be the one getting hurt or dying.

I tend to defend cyclists on here as I use a bike and am aware of how difficult it is and what aggressive morons some drivers are. However I would never move past a lorry or bus, it is stupid whatever the rules. Christ I know from driving a car how difficult it is to be aware of everything so for a lorry driver…

[RedKettle]

This is the forth sign in less than half a mile the cyclist is coming up to and the only one that's turned like that. Plus you can see the traffic built up behind him.

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I understand about punctures but there's very little debris on any of those cycle paths and they are national speed limit roads, not 30 mph built up areas.

They will be focused on looking ahead for fucking pot holes that could throw them in front of the cars so genuinely may not see the signs. If they stop to get over the kerb some arse hole will blast their horn!

[daviemac]

They will be focused on looking ahead for fucking pot holes that could throw them in front of the cars so genuinely may not see the signs. If they stop to get over the kerb some arse hole will blast their horn!

Sorry mate but you are never going to convince me, we'll just have to agree to disagree, but this is the start of that stretch of road complete with drop curb that is just past a junction, a sign clearly visible just past the national speed limit one and finally a sensible cyclist. 


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[lillythesavage]

I tend to defend cyclists on here as I use a bike and am aware of how difficult it is and what aggressive morons some drivers are. However I would never move past a lorry or bus, it is stupid whatever the rules. Christ I know from driving a car how difficult it is to be aware of everything so for a lorry driver…

There are lots of aggressive moron cyclists, particularly in London where no one leaves enough travel time and is in a rush, they have no regards for their own safety and ride around the wheels of trucks and buses as if they are just another obstacle, they are the reason I no longer drive trucks in London.

Things have improved collision and death wise from the peak, because of cycle lanes and traffic barely moving on the road space that is left, if cyclists are going to not use the lanes and fight for the little road space, there is going to be problems.

Another thing to bare in mind, large trucks, artics and tippers, fully laden are nearly 3 times the weight of unladen and far less agile, a cyclist may have a chance with unladen, but running heavy little chance, best keep away.

[lamboman]

They will be focused on looking ahead for fucking pot holes that could throw them in front of the cars so genuinely may not see the signs. If they stop to get over the kerb some arse hole will blast their horn!

That path looks shit even from a photo no wonder he's not riding on it.
I like the updates apart from 5 which is bad enough for car drivers let alone HGVs who are just not going to see someone up the inside.

[lillythesavage]

That path looks shit even from a photo no wonder he's not riding on it.
I like the updates apart from 5 which is bad enough for car drivers let alone HGVs who are just not going to see someone up the inside.

From the diagram and words, it seems perfectly acceptable for the cyclist on the outside to turn left in front a of a car,/van/truck 

[RedKettle]

Sorry mate but you are never going to convince me, we'll just have to agree to disagree, but this is the start of that stretch of road complete with drop curb that is just past a junction, a sign clearly visible just past the national speed limit one and finally a sensible cyclist. 


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I am not particularly disagreeing with you. I am thinking that drivers prefer bikes to be on cycle lanes and in general (not all I accept) cyclists want to be on cycle lanes. So why do so many ignore many cycle lanes?

Perhaps if we try harder to understand that then we can design them so they will be used rather than in many cases just create them to say that we met a target.

Personally I have had so many bad experiences with ones around me that I generally ignore them. However in other areas where they are great I use them with relief and pleasure.

[Marmalade]

There’s new cycle rules rather often.

A little while ago they introduced spaces at the front of a traffic light queue to allow a cycle to move ahead or turn right. I can see how that would work. Now telling them to cycle near the middle of the road seems strange. Where the cyclist is going to turn right and traffic conditions allow, surely the cyclist can figure that out for himself.

Cycles both sides of cars as a norm doesn’t sound very attractive. A normal lane, where practical, sounds best for everyone seems to me.

There again, people who cycle in London may have the most useful ideas for the major urban metropolises — hardly the same as elsewhere even though ‘one rule for all’ has advantages… that is, if there’s still room for cars among the bus lanes and cycle lanes.

[lamboman]

 Now telling them to cycle near the middle of the road seems strange.

I've explained this previously it makes perfect sense,it's the same as a motorcyclist is taught.
It means other road users have to go round you instead of pushing you into the verge or kerb which a great many seem to enjoy.

[daviemac]

I've explained this previously it makes perfect sense,it's the same as a motorcyclist is taught.
It means other road users have to go round you instead of pushing you into the verge or kerb which a great many seem to enjoy.

A motorcyclist can always keep up with traffic so nobody is going to want to get past, cyclists are slower and them riding in the middle of the road is bound to cause frustration, especially if cars could easily get past if they were nearer the curb.

On the subject of motorcyclists I'v lost count of the times ignorant car drivers try to block me off when filtering down the middle of two lanes of either very slow moving or stationary traffic. 

[RedKettle]

A motorcyclist can always keep up with traffic so nobody is going to want to get past, cyclists are slower and them riding in the middle of the road is bound to cause frustration, especially if cars could easily get past if they were nearer the curb.

On the subject of motorcyclists I'v lost count of the times ignorant car drivers try to block me off when filtering down the middle of two lanes of either very slow moving or stationary traffic.

In city centres it is often cyclists that can move faster - similar to your motorbike point you often get cars nudging left to stop you moving up the traffic.  Frankly all of this would be easier if we could get rid of the arseholes, whether they ride a bike or drive a car.  Some good manners and courtesy all around would go a long way.  Oh god I am so old fashioned.

[lostandfound]

I've explained this previously it makes perfect sense,it's the same as a motorcyclist is taught.
It means other road users have to go round you instead of pushing you into the verge or kerb which a great many seem to enjoy.

That is a good point. Cyclists need to be assertive otherwise they will get pushed off to the side.

Anyone who runs (or walks) experiences the same phenomenon. If I am approaching a group of walkers who are spread out and walking alongside each other -  I always move to the near side of the pavement - then they make room. If I move to the outside they don't and expect me to step out into the road.