Cryptocurrencies

[sir wanksalot]

Elon Musk's cakehole again. He seems to love opening it. A crypto ''fundamental'' seems to be his cakehole. 


''The price of dogecoin fell sharply on Thursday morning, sliding below 40 cents per coin, after Tesla CEO and crypto booster Elon Musk announced that the automaker was suspending the use of bitcoin in payments over environmental concerns.

Musk, who previously bought billions in bitcoin for Tesla and has tweeted regularly about dogecoin, said he was concerned by “rapidly increasing use of fossil fuels for Bitcoin mining and transactions.” The price of bitcoin also pulled back following the announcement.''

External Link/Members Only

Any investment that goes up or down based on one person's tweets isn't going to get any of my money

[Blackpool Rock]

Any investment that goes up or down based on one person's tweets isn't going to get any of my money

But that's pretty much all investments to an extent.
I distinctly recall the world markets all dropping on numerous occasions when Trump tweeted shit including calling Kim Jong Rocket man etc

Probably find that Elon has actually sold off some of his Crypto then tweeted knowing it would drop before buying it back cheaper

[oxfordcock]

May be worth buying a little Doge in the very near future. Out of all the coin on the market it's not too bad for the environment when compared to Bitcoin etc. I'm expecting to see a rise in people supporting friendlier coins.

[sir wanksalot]

But that's pretty much all investments to an extent.
I distinctly recall the world markets all dropping on numerous occasions when Trump tweeted shit including calling Kim Jong Rocket man etc

Probably find that Elon has actually sold off some of his Crypto then tweeted knowing it would drop before buying it back cheaper

"to an extent" being the key.

Historically, national leaders refrain from saying anything that might spook the markets, Trump was an exception.

Musk is obviously not a national leader, he is a businessman, not even an investor yet his Trump-like tweets often have a massive affect on Bitcoin and Dogecoin

[filthy.john]

"to an extent" being the key.

Historically, national leaders refrain from saying anything that might spook the markets, Trump was an exception.

Musk is obviously not a national leader, he is a businessman, not even an investor yet his Trump-like tweets often have a massive affect on Bitcoin and Dogecoin

One of the problems is with the Crypto space being confused as to what it is - currency or investment. T

Another is that it is wholly unregulated space so the likes of Musk can buy shed-loads of coin, ramp it up, dump it after a healthy rise and then bad mouth it, let it plummet and then start all over again  - and nobody can do a thing about it.

I can't see crypto as a true investment even though there are clowns out there saying it is an 'investment' - it's based on nothing but intersubjective reality... it isn't like the stockmarket where there is a degree of intersubjective reality but underpinning the values is an asset value... that asset value is completely absent from crypto.

[RLondon99]

No point in applying rational investment ideas to crypto. It isn't any of the things the promoters claim for it. It is just a hope vehicle for mainly deluded people.

But that's the same for a lot of things people pay good money for. And there are a lot of deluded people.

So wait until the hype and the price die down (again), put aside a few hundred quid you are willing to lose in some cryptos and then forget about them for ten years.

If you've lost your money so what, it's only a couple of blowjobs. And if it comes good then you can fuck your way through that hotlist until you die.

[Payyourwaymate]

My condolences to anyone that is knee deep in crypto at the moment, the losses % wise is incredible lol.

[JamesKW]

I read any article that Countries are going to issue their own Government backed crypto currencies,which should put the private ones out of business

[Mr Sinister]

My condolences to anyone that is knee deep in crypto at the moment, the losses % wise is incredible lol.

My portfolio has taken a hit, but I'm holding there's been a big dip like this before, people panicked and look what has happened the past year. Best time is to buy is in the dip.

@JamesKW yeah governments and the banks are doing all they can to try and control the market. The issue is they do not want peoples money going elsewhere.

[Blackpool Rock]

My portfolio has taken a hit, but I'm holding there's been a big dip like this before, people panicked and look what has happened the past year. Best time is to buy is in the dip.

@JamesKW yeah governments and the banks are doing all they can to try and control the market. The issue is they do not want peoples money going elsewhere.

The thing is with all investments nobody can accurately predict when the peak is and when the market has bottomed out.
The price has dipped recently however that's off an historic high so is this just a dip in which it's worth buying or is it more like a bubble that's burst and going down slowly off of a false high 

Thing is looking at the current price it's still actually very high by historic standards

[ratedj]

My portfolio has taken a hit, but I'm holding there's been a big dip like this before, people panicked and look what has happened the past year. Best time is to buy is in the dip.

@JamesKW yeah governments and the banks are doing all they can to try and control the market. The issue is they do not want peoples money going elsewhere.

Yeah, the market looked pretty brutal earlier on but seems to have picked up a bit. Was talking to a friend at the time of the dip and he was contemplating buying the dip, as there is no better time. Like you, I'm holding, though I would have loved to have had the foresight to have sold my portfolio and bought back in again.

[lamboman]

Yeah, the market looked pretty brutal earlier on but seems to have picked up a bit. Was talking to a friend at the time of the dip and he was contemplating buying the dip, as there is no better time. Like you, I'm holding, though I would have loved to have had the foresight to have sold my portfolio and bought back in again.

How does he know it's bottomed out?As has been said best stay clear of any stock that is influenced by someones tweets it's pretty much guessing.It's like any gambling you only hear of the good luck stories all the people that get cleaned out don't say a word.

[Blackpool Rock]

How does he know it's bottomed out?As has been said best stay clear of any stock that is influenced by someones tweets it's pretty much guessing.It's like any gambling you only hear of the good luck stories all the people that get cleaned out don't say a word.

Yeah that's what I always raise but nobody can ever answer as it's impossible to know unless you're a big player who can take actions and move the market.

As they say about timing the market, there are two types of investors
Firstly there are those who can't time the market and secondly there are those who don't know they can't time the market 

[lamboman]

Yeah that's what I always raise but nobody can ever answer as it's impossible to know unless you're a big player who can take actions and move the market.

As they say about timing the market, there are two types of investors
Firstly there are those who can't time the market and secondly there are those who don't know they can't time the market 

Agreed for me with financial markets there are always people with better information than me so I've never bothered.
I also know through my arbitrage a hugley succesful sports trader who couldn't pick a profitable share in a month of Sundays by his own admission,knowledge is key but some poeple have a natural instinct for certain markets.

[sir wanksalot]

How does he know it's bottomed out?

He doesn't. It's known as catching a falling knife.

[lamboman]

He doesn't. It's known as catching a falling knife.

 

[ratedj]

How does he know it's bottomed out?As has been said best stay clear of any stock that is influenced by someones tweets it's pretty much guessing.It's like any gambling you only hear of the good luck stories all the people that get cleaned out don't say a word.

He does not, and I made no mention of the market bottoming out but rather buying the dip.

[filthy.john]

He does not, and I made no mention of the market bottoming out but rather buying the dip.

But what's the point of buying 'the dip' until you know it has bottomed out? (which you cannot know).

Simple reality - as I have said before - Crypto is just based on intersubjective realityies... there is no 'asset value' like investing in the stock market. A company will have assets - there is something semi-tangible to support the valuations or to assess the valuations on. Crypto - there is nothing - it's just based on something entirely illusory... sentiment, hopes and fears.

The big problem as I see it now is that the more popular crypto 'investing' (and I use the owrd investing very, very loosely) gets then the harder and the deeper it will fall.

They said the DotCom bubble was like the Dutch Tulip Bulb phenomena - well - I'm sorry for all those recent and not so recent arrivals to the crypto scene , but what we're witnessing right now is the proverbial 'Hold My Beer' moment. If the Dutch Bulb and the DotCom bubble was bad - this is gonna be a bloodbath.

[JamesKW]

The thing is with all investments nobody can accurately predict when the peak is and when the market has bottomed out.

Traders I have worked with normally sell as soon as they make some profit,rather than wait for the high,so you never lose,though you do lose out on the big potential profits and you can be left holding the crap.

[JamesKW]

But what's the point of buying 'the dip' until you know it has bottomed out? (which you cannot know).

The best time to buy is straight after bad news,like after 9/11 or dotcom crash,Far East crash,or when the alglorythms went mad, or when COVID started last year as it always drops more than it ought to.

[Blackpool Rock]

The best time to buy is straight after bad news,like after 9/11 or dotcom crash,Far East crash,or when the alglorythms went mad, or when COVID started last year as it always drops more than it ought to.

You are right that if you are the sort of investor who buys and sells constantly then it makes sense to sell after a drop in the market of say 10% or 20% etc however selling like that requires 2 decisions not 1, firstly you need to decide when to sell and secondly you then need to decide when to buy back in, timing things isn't easy.

Personally I tend to ride the bumps and stay invested which is a tough ride when things are dropping like a stone as they did early last year with Covid.
When I looked at my portfolio that had about 10% annualised growth shrink to about 3% annualised I questioned whether it had been worth it however by sitting tight I saw probably the best year i've ever had once things picked up again 

The problem for a lot of people is that they wait too long to sell when things are going down so lose too much money and then crystalise the loss at the point they sell, if the market then goes back up shortly afterwards then they will be buying back in a few weeks or months later at a higher price, double whammy 

[lamboman]

He does not, and I made no mention of the market bottoming out but rather buying the dip.

Well that's the road to the poor house, crazy to be honest.

[Payyourwaymate]

Does anyone know anything about tether? Apparently something dodgy is going on with them in terms of producing tokens out of thin air and it's linked to propping up the bitcoin price. The company that is responsible for tether is not bound by regulations due to the jurisdiction they are located in.

External Link/Members Only

[kuck]

Does anyone know anything about tether? Apparently something dodgy is going on with them in terms of producing tokens out of thin air and it's linked to propping up the bitcoin price. The company that is responsible for tether is not bound by regulations due to the jurisdiction they are located in.

External Link/Members Only

Yea I only use USDT because it is ubiquitous, and I try not hold it long term. USDC is superior, I think 100% backed by funds, but there just aren't enough market pairs. When the dump started happening, the first thing I did was to convert all my USDT into dirty sterling.

[RLondon99]

Does anyone know anything about tether?

Every crypto has some element of scam, Tether has a lot. For a long time they claimed it was 100% backed by USD equivalents but now it has been revealed they only have about 3% $ backing.

[Payyourwaymate]

I see, thanks. That raises concerns lol.

[GreyDave]

Any investment that goes up or down based on one person's tweets isn't going to get any of my money

  Sir Wanksalot hits nail on head 

Maybe we should pay more attention to the Wankers on here   Ethrum half what it was from high 

[filthy.john]

  Sir Wanksalot hits nail on head 

Maybe we should pay more attention to the Wankers on here   Ethrum half what it was from high 

Let's be honest though - any investment - even genuinely legitimate ones like FTSE100 companies can be derailed by one man's comments - Gerald Ratner - anyone remember him?

It isn't so much what words or actions can do to the value of the thing - for me it is looking at the thing and seeing whether it has an objective rationale to support the value. With stocks and shares - there is - there is at least something tangible to support it - the assets a company owns or the product itself. With crypto there isn't -there is absolutely nothign - its a collection of 1s and 0s - thin air essentially - and it is simply donw to the intersubjective reality attached to that thin air.

Crypto is worse than the roulette wheel and I both pity and laugh at in equal measure those that have been claiming it is an investment. I know one guy who has for months been posting charts on his facebook, urging hos friends to 'get on board', laughing at the empty heads all with their money getting 0.1% in the banks, being 'ripped off' he claimed, by big banks... He's been oddly absent from Facebook this week - as I say, I can't help but have a snide giggle but at the same time I'm rather concerned for his well-being and that of hsi wife and young kids... I think this guy has been ploughing everything he has into crypto. But, he wouldn't have it that he was playing with fire!

[GreyDave]

Let's be honest though - any investment - even genuinely legitimate ones like FTSE100 companies can be derailed by one man's comments - Gerald Ratner - anyone remember him?

 With crypto there isn't -there is absolutely nothign - its a collection of 1s and 0s - thin air essentially - and it is simply donw to the intersubjective reality attached to that thin air.

Crypto is worse than the roulette wheel and I both pity and laugh at in equal measure those that have been claiming it is an investment playing with fire!

    (Edited your great post as it was fun to do )

NO SHIT SHERLOCK

 (might be some in his shop ...didnt Ratner still manage to take £££`S and start some Gym thing shafting the shareholder even more?

[Steve2]

    (Edited your great post as it was fun to do )

NO SHIT SHERLOCK

 (might be some in his shop ...didnt Ratner still manage to take £££`S and start some Gym thing shafting the shareholder even more?

Maybe he did Dave 

he set up a health club in Henley-on-Thames in 1996, which was sold for £3.9m in 2001.

[Blackpool Rock]

Police raid in The Midlands expecting to find a Cannabis farm but find an illegal Bitcoin mining operation instead, how times change 

External Link/Members Only

[advent2016]

I bought a few bitcoin when it started when it was cheap and sold when I'd made a modest 12,000% increase.

[Payyourwaymate]

Anyone feeling optimistic about the current prices?

The recent drop is not too great.

[Blackpool Rock]

Anyone feeling optimistic about the current prices?

The recent drop is not too great.

Dropped from their high of about 45K to 22K but not really dropped in the last month.

Personally i'd not touch it but it all depends at what price people bought, for those who bought 2 months ago at the peak they will be pretty pissed off as their "investment"  is now worth less than half what they paid.

However for those who bought 12 months ago then the value is about 3 times what they paid

If it's as good an investment as some like to think it is then surely buying now at under half it's peak price is a bargain 

[Squire Haggard]

The Death Cross happened recently, but it might have started bouncing back. Regulation is a big threat to cryptos, with this latest dip caused by China. I wont be investing, too unpredictable.

'“At the 2019 death cross, bitcoin had already went through a -47 per cent dip before the death cross flashed, with a 52 per cent recovery after. And a -64 per cent dip before the 2020 death cross, with a quick 150 per cent recovery.”

External Link/Members Only

Worth a look....
External Link/Members Only

[Gordon Bennett]

An article in Sunday Times was interesting (can't link to it, its behind a pay wall). Thing that struck me as odd was fact there are 230+ crypto currencies out there. Makes me think it the Wild West again with any Tom, Dick or Harry setting them up. Another oddity was Dogecoin was set up as some sort of piss-take joke but has still "taken off" anyways.
The article followed a journo dabbling in crypto for a month or so. He seemed to get alarmingly obsessed with following the volatile minute by minute swings in prices until he was on the verge of mania. Think he was very relieved to pull the plug on it all at the end.

[advent2016]

An article in Sunday Times was interesting (can't link to it, its behind a pay wall). Thing that struck me as odd was fact there are 230+ crypto currencies out there. Makes me think it the Wild West again with any Tom, Dick or Harry setting them up. Another oddity was Dogecoin was set up as some sort of piss-take joke but has still "taken off" anyways.
The article followed a journo dabbling in crypto for a month or so. He seemed to get alarmingly obsessed with following the volatile minute by minute swings in prices until he was on the verge of mania. Think he was very relieved to pull the plug on it all at the end.

Doge is controlled by quite a small number of people who may get quite rich before it crashes.

[winkywanky]

I still don't 'get' Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies  .

Money has to represent something, a tangible asset or an amount of 'work' or service supplied. Is that what it aspires to be? Because otherwise it's just a few people speculating and getting 'rich' out of thin air. What have they done to deserve that wealth? Have they done anything or achieved anything to justify it?

It almost seems like printing money. Expanding things, if everyone got into Bitcoin then it would simply fall apart because it doesn't represent anything. What am I missing?

[kuck]

I still don't 'get' Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies  .

Money has to represent something, a tangible asset or an amount of 'work' or service supplied. Is that what it aspires to be? Because otherwise it's just a few people speculating and getting 'rich' out of thin air. What have they done to deserve that wealth? Have they done anything or achieved anything to justify it?

It almost seems like printing money. Expanding things, if everyone got into Bitcoin then it would simply fall apart because it doesn't represent anything. What am I missing?

The money in your bank is just a ledger entry. Fiat isn't backed by gold reserves. Governments do provide some level of stability to it, but don't always succeed. Governments are free to print as much money as they like.

Bitcoin is a shared ledger that no single entity controls. The amount of bitcoin you own is tied to your wallet address, it is merely an entry in a shared database (blockchain) instead of your bank's database.

There is a limited supply of bitcoins. You can't just print bitcoin, you need to do a lot of work to "mine" bitcoin. Once 21 million bitcoins have been mined, no more will be created, by design.

There are of course scam currencies, OneCoin being the most notorious.

Regarding deserving the wealth, this is not different from speculating stocks or forex markets.

[winkywanky]

The money in your bank is just a ledger entry. Fiat isn't backed by gold reserves. Governments do provide some level of stability to it, but don't always succeed. Governments are free to print as much money as they like.

Bitcoin is a shared ledger that no single entity controls. The amount of bitcoin you own is tied to your wallet address, it is merely an entry in a shared database (blockchain) instead of your bank's database.

There is a limited supply of bitcoins. You can't just print bitcoin, you need to do a lot of work to "mine" bitcoin. Once 21 million bitcoins have been mined, no more will be created, by design.

There are of course scam currencies, OneCoin being the most notorious.

Regarding deserving the wealth, this is not different from speculating stocks or forex markets.

The work is in the 'mining' then?

So how does such 'mining' contribute to the world, pay people's salaries for the work they do, build dams and bridges, build houses, grow food and all the rest?

I get that there's a lot of corruption even with the current system, and speculation too, but the vast majority of money held by people around the world actually represents something, accumulated and worked-for wealth, from working and providing/doing things for other people who then paid you. Like the logical progression from bartering.

At the moment Bitcoin et al just seem bogus, you buy some Bitcoin and then 6mths later your money has gone up tenfold  .

I guess the idea is that eventually it will become 'real' and be used by everyone, but how long will that take?

[kuck]

You are conflating money as something you get in exchange for "work"? You must have a very strong work ethic

What's the "work" done in gambling, inheritance, bank interest, market speculation, being born into wealth, and so on?

I think fundamentally all money is only as valuable as people think it is worth. And you are right about adoption. It is to do with the network effect, the larger the number of people that believe in a currency's value, the more valuable it is. Congolese francs might not inspire as much confidence as USD. BTC in 2010 was worth a dollar because the number of people who believed in it was small.

[winkywanky]

You are conflating money as something you get in exchange for "work"? You must have a very strong work ethic

What's the "work" done in gambling, inheritance, bank interest, market speculation, being born into wealth, and so on?

I think fundamentally all money is only as valuable as people think it is worth. And you are right about adoption. It is to do with the network effect, the larger the number of people that believe in a currency's value, the more valuable it is. Congolese francs might not inspire as much confidence as USD. BTC in 2010 was worth a dollar because the number of people who believed in it was small.

I was at pains to point out that money isn't always earned. Thought I'd made that clear.

I simply made the point that money must represent something, and be seen to represent something, by everyone. It has to be a recognised, universal standard. Notwithstanding the vagaries of the current system with banks etc (and the fucking bankers) everyone knows where they stand with it.

[kuck]

...
I simply made the point that money must represent something, and be seen to represent something, by everyone. It has to be a recognised, universal standard.
...

Represent something (value) and be recognised (by a lot of people) - we agree on this.

Only disagree with you on your point that bitcoin seems like it is printing money.

[advent2016]

I was at pains to point out that money isn't always earned. Thought I'd made that clear.

I simply made the point that money must represent something, and be seen to represent something, by everyone. It has to be a recognised, universal standard. Notwithstanding the vagaries of the current system with banks etc (and the fucking bankers) everyone knows where they stand with it.

Currency is only as strong as the economy for the country it represents. Consider some of the South American states where inflation is at 100% per month you're much better holding something tangible like gold, or if your're worried about it being stolen maybe a crypto currency is a better bet.

[winkywanky]

Represent something (value) and be recognised (by a lot of people) - we agree on this.

Only disagree with you on your point that bitcoin seems like it is printing money.

Until it becomes a 'normal' and widely accepted currency (which perhaps it will at some point) then for some it has been?

I have no idea on the numbers, and of course many later adopters have lost out. So yes, in a way I guess it's no different from the usual money speculation that already exists.

[winkywanky]

And in this vein of 'acceptability': has Boris not recently floated the idea of Britcoin?

What could possibly go wrong?   

[anyfucker]

An article in Sunday Times was interesting (can't link to it, its behind a pay wall). Thing that struck me as odd was fact there are 230+ crypto currencies out there. Makes me think it the Wild West again with any Tom, Dick or Harry setting them up. Another oddity was Dogecoin was set up as some sort of piss-take joke but has still "taken off" anyways.
The article followed a journo dabbling in crypto for a month or so. He seemed to get alarmingly obsessed with following the volatile minute by minute swings in prices until he was on the verge of mania. Think he was very relieved to pull the plug on it all at the end.

far more than 230+ take a look at External Link/Members Only
according to them there are 10,617

Two brothers in South Africa have disappeared along with $3.6 billion worth of bitcoin that was housed on their cryptocurrency investment platform, according to a Cape Town law firm hired by investors to investigate the alleged heist.
External Link/Members Only

[lamboman]

An article in Sunday Times was interesting (can't link to it, its behind a pay wall). Thing that struck me as odd was fact there are 230+ crypto currencies out there. Makes me think it the Wild West again with any Tom, Dick or Harry setting them up. Another oddity was Dogecoin was set up as some sort of piss-take joke but has still "taken off" anyways.
The article followed a journo dabbling in crypto for a month or so. He seemed to get alarmingly obsessed with following the volatile minute by minute swings in prices until he was on the verge of mania. Think he was very relieved to pull the plug on it all at the end.

I read that a funny article that just about sums up cryptocurrencies,people setting them up as a piss take and people then investing in them  They are mostly speculating on an untangible currency that has almost no use,it's virtual horse racing for the middle classes.

[Blackpool Rock]

I read that a funny article that just about sums up cryptocurrencies,people setting them up as a piss take and people then investing in them  They are mostly speculating on an untangible currency that has almost no use,it's virtual horse racing for the middle classes.

I believe that Evian water was actually set up as a joke as they didn't believe people were actually stupid enough to pay for bottles water, the name is Naive backwards 

As for bitcoin i'd say it was primarily for criminals to hide and launder money which they then convert into Dollars for some strange reason 

[snaitram99]

I believe that Evian water was actually set up as a joke as they didn't believe people were actually stupid enough to pay for bottles water, the name is Naive backwards 

Evian is a real place in France, Evian-les-bains. On the other hand Coca Cola's bottled water, heavily promoted when launched, was bottled tap water and its market, in the UK at least, collapsed when this became known. (Dasani I think it was called)